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After 8 years of leaking oval filters I removed all the plastic from my 27 HP Briggs Intek.

Here is a shot of the old plastic intake and air elbow:


And another one of the old plastic:


(I am always surprised that this plastic can somehow hold up to the head temps seen on air-cooled engines ~maybe~)

Here is the new aluminium Briggs intake p/n 797503 and the EC Carburettors 4040 elbow:


And what it all looks like installed on the Scag:


For other photos of the current AEM Brute-Force air filter and mower please see my album at:
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/members/ken_clifton-albums-my-tiger-cub.html

Best,
Ken_Clifton

Here is are some shots of the old oval air filter:




I am working on switching out the current AEM Brute-Force filter with an EMPI 9001 setup that uses some round paper filters that cost about $6.50 each, i.e. NAPA 2055, or AC A152C. I know a canister setup is the absolute best, but it is hard to beat the price on the round paper filters for a home owner application, even if it is 8 acres...

Ken , so the aluminum intakes only fit the Intek 27? How 'bout the Intek 24's.

motoman said:

Ken , so the aluminum intakes only fit the Intek 27? How 'bout the Intek 24's.

Click to expand...

Hi Motoman,
We have been chasing the same rabbits with the oil temps. I read many of your posts after I had installed my oil cooler, 1 qt remote filter and a mechanical dual oil temp and pressure gauge (actually a boiler gauge).

Regarding the aluminium intake. I have replaced one other on a 26 HP Intek. Looking at the parts manual the same plastic intake is the same on the 26 and 27 HP as well as most of the Briggs models starting with 406777 and 407777.

When installing an aluminium intake, an extra spacer is required (comes with the intake) and you don't use the silver heat shield that was on the plastic intake. If you look at one of my photos showing the carb, you can see the plastic spacer sandwiched between two gaskets.

Thanks again for sharing all your experiences with the oil temp saga. Last week when the ambient temp was 95 here, my oil temp after 2 hours was stable at 250. I am considering running a 2 qt filter instead of the current 1 qt. to have some extra time for the oil to cool. I will know more after some mowing when ambient temps are running in the 80s this week. I don't want to get the oil too cool.

Best,
Ken_Clifton

Ken, Thanks for the information. It is interesting to finally hear from another who has installed an oil cooler. You are doing better than I can with my hybrid fan, etc. I cannot maintain 250F in even 80F while cutting . I feel that is due to the marginal air blast from the Nissan fan. What are you running? I bought a new Husqy Intek and am considering the Northern integrated fan/cooler which is a compact package at around 7"x7"x4" , 12V, 3A. It is a pricey little devil at around $200, but cheap if it does what yours does. I am also going to a red led digital oil temp ga because I get tired interpreting the analog sweep ga I have which is not linear. Your rig is Ferrari and Jaguar-like with all the extra oil. :laughing: motoman

motoman said:

What are you running? I bought a new Husqy Intek and am considering the Northern integrated fan/cooler which is a compact package at around 7"x7"x4" , 12V, 3A. motoman

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Thanks Motoman, Right now, no fans at all. Both my hydraulic and oil coolers appear to be the same as the cooler you are using. I believe they are all made by Tru-Cool -- mine are their model B7B. They have 1/2in NPT inlet and outlets.

If you look at the photos in my public album, I fabricated a cross-bar between the uprights for the roll bar on the Scag. The coolers do get some of the air flow being drawn down into the Briggs blower. Since I don't have a cowl on the ZTR, and the coolers sit up higher, I think the existing air-flow is going to be ok. I would like to see the temp down around 230 but getting 250 with an ambient temp of 95 in direct sun is pretty good.

With the 1 qt NAPA 1515 / Wix 51515 oil filter my oil capacity is about 2.7 qts on an oil change. I plan to send an oil sample to Blackstone Labs after I get about 50 hours on the existing oil change and air filter combo, then make some adjustments if needed.

Best,
Ken_Clifton

Ken, Well interesting that your cooler perhaps just sees circulating air, not blast. I note that the pictures of the Kohler cooler and the one shown on the upscale Inteks also look like they simply work by ?"casual"? airflow? I think part of my inefficiency is that I cannot get the hot air existing the oil cooler out well. I will try to remedy that on the Husqy . So although there is pressurized flow through your bigger oil filter , you feel that extra oil is cooled because it is a large mass and that the lag in getting that extra oil thru the sump is beneficial vs all the oil in the lines, cooler and sump are equalized? As noted many times here, once I see 280-290F on the gauge I can stop with the cowl raised and reduce the oil temp by 50F in about 5 min fast idle. Then when cutting resumes the temp climbs back to 280F+ in about 5 min even with the fan on.

motoman said:

So although there is pressurized flow through your bigger oil filter , you feel that extra oil is cooled because it is a large mass and that the lag in getting that extra oil thru the sump is beneficial vs all the oil in the lines, cooler and sump are equalized?

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Motoman, I believe it is a combination of the extra oil mass and the probably 8 times the surface area on the full-size oil filter can, versus the O.E. Briggs filter. A 2 qt oil filter would be probably 14 times the surface cooling of the small Briggs filter.

For the first hour and a half the oil temp climbs slowly. I expect if I were to add another quart in the mix then that mass would slow that climb even more. But, I want some readings with the ambient temps in the 80s. If I am running in the 230-240 range then I will be happy with it as is.

Also, regarding the Briggs oil cooler, it is cooled with forced-air out of the blower shroud/housing. There is a 2in by 3in hole in the blower housing behind where it is mounted. I installed a blower housing off of one of the newer engines on my Intek and I had to make a sheet metal cover for that hole since my oil cooler is in another location. I considered trying to duct the air, but it would be blowing hot air on the operator since the oil cooler is behind the seat. The OE installation blows air out the side of the engine through the VERY small cooler.

I looked at one of those Briggs coolers and was not impressed. It was about 1/2 the size of the power steering cooler I used to use on my hydraulics. I know they move a lot of air through it, but 3/8 inch lines and a cooler not much bigger than a pack of cigarettes did not leave me feeling like it would do very much.

Best,
ken_clifton

hen Re: Off With the Intek Plastic

Ken, Thanks for the info. I wonder about the Briggs claim of 40F reduction in oil temp with the tiny cooler you describe. And the layout of that little cooler says (to me ) there is really no air blast, just a "breeze" from the fan. Big Harley's have a wide selection of cooler kits to choose,but are expensive and dedicated (with routing and bracketry}. Then there is the selection of Chinese direct. I see a number of small kits which look pretty good, but I shy away from direct import. Finally, regarding surface area...there are finned clamp-on bands fitting the oil filters, but never saw any positive results from those. Your approach reminds me of the remote oil tanks on dry sump setups. Thanks again, motoman

Re: hen Re: Off With the Intek Plastic

motoman said:

Ken, there is really no air blast, just a "breeze" from the fan. motoman

Click to expand...

Motoman, sorry if I confused you, the very small Briggs cooler gets a continuous high rate of air from the engine blower. The 2x3in hole on the right side of the blower shroud has a whole lot of air coming out of it.

When I first ran my new setup testing I did not have a sheet metal piece blocking that hole. A whole lot of air comes out of it. Still, I can't see that Briggs cooler the size of a king-size pack of cigarettes doing a 40 degree reduction.

I learned about oil volume working on aircraft years ago. I am an A&P mechanic. The Beechcraft T-34 trainers had a dry sump oil system with a weighted pickup tube so they could fly inverted. Very cool engine.

Best,
Ken_Clifton

Not sure if one would work for you all but an automotive transmission cooler can be had at a junk yard for next to nothing. Mount it to the mower somewhere that gets moving air and plumb it into the oil system. We used to use power steering coolers on Harley's back in the day as a cheap and easy oil cooler. Maybe a 12 ducted fan operating off a temperature sensor to move more air across your oil cooler?

Tom

Pumper, Yes, thanks, I am running an auto oil cooler and it is not the problem. I believe the problem is the Nissan fan is big but the fan hub is centered on the oil cooler finning so most air blast is passing outside the area, and there is also a problem of exhausting that air. My makeshift duct passes accross the back of the Intek , side to side, but a candle flame will barely flicker on the output end with the fan running. On the other hand with the tractor cover up the cooler/fan will pull heat out fast. On my new Husqy I will remedy these problems (hopefully) with a better fan combo and , hopefully, better exit of the hot coolerair. motoman

I see, don't you love it when designers put a cooling fan so close to what you need cooled that the fan itself blocks airflow?
Tom

Pumper, In this case I am the faulty designer putting a fan with ?12" blades smack up against a 4" wide cooler. But I was really pressed for space and I had the fan on hand. The Northern Hurricaine unit is the one I'm looking at which is an integrated unit, but pricey @ $200.

Motoman, I am thinking you might be able to fab up a duct to direct the airflow into the oil cooler? There has to be an after market oil cooler set up that would work for less the $200.00. That or I need to start building them. LOL

Tom

Pumper, I have looked at a lot of coolers and fans, both separate and "integrated." The problem with the two riders I have is "space" "space" "space" A typical cooler is too large and mating a fan runs a tab to $100. I have found some "tiny" coolers , such as the cigarette pak size which Briggs uses but not tiny fan. Next sizes are typically 9" x 12"which might work, but not as well as the Northern Hurricaine size of about ? 7" x 7" x 2". Since I have not solved the heat extraction I want during hard use I am moving closer to the $200 unit. It seems those with zero turns have more space and more swirling air available than rider owners, But before I add a cooler I will install an oil temp gauge to see if this Intek runs (somehow) cooler than my older one. Some have suggested mine is abnormally hot, We'll see motoman

motoman said:

Some have suggested mine is abnormally hot, We'll see motoman

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Motoman,
I don't think your Intek is abnormally hot. I read in one of the Briggs technical notes that the expected oil temp is ambient temp plus (190-210).
So, on a 90 degree day they expect to see 280-300 degrees oil temp, unless it is one of their engines with an oil cooler.

Another anecdotal bit, yesterday the ambient here was 90 degrees and with my setup mowing lush 12 inch tall grass, my oil temp was a stable 255 degrees after 2 hours and remained there for another hour.

Looks like I will be trying out the 2qt NAPA 1459 filter.

Best,
ken_clifton

Oil coolers were all the rage on motorcycles when I was young and knew better than all the BSA design engineers :laughing:
Years latter external oil coolers were revisited and when oil temps were properly being measured, my oil was almost always too cold.
On mowers the oil does next to no cooling in itself.
By far the most important thing is to keep the cooling finning on the engine clean and to do that you need to remove the blower housing regularly.
Every oil cooler set up, apart from the oil filter extensions I have seen makes removing the housing substantially more difficult to remove, so it does not get removed and the engine overheats because the air can not get to the bare aluminium to conduct the heat away.
I have even seen oil cooler fitted over the top of the fan intake or cut into the side of the blower housing, both of which seriously compromised the blower operation.
The owners were having overheating problems which they actually had created & I cured by getting rid of their modifications.
Two times I have reinstalled oil coolers , mounted on the rop, no fan fitted.
The owners were very happy with these ( motorcycle oil coolers with thermal bypass valve ) but in reality I rather believe that the extra oil volume was the only real benefit.

Now your situations could be substantially different, it gets hot here in summer with months of temps around the 30 C mark.
Harley owners seem to like to fit slip on oil coolers which are a finned alloy sleeve that slips over the oil filter itself to act as a heat sink.
You might like to try one of these which is a lot easier to fit and requires no modifications to the mowers blower system.
However, the black ones would be a better buy than the chrome ones .

bertsmobile1 said:

- my oil was almost always too cold...
- Every oil cooler set up, apart from the oil filter extensions I have seen makes removing the housing substantially more difficult to remove...
- I have even seen oil cooler fitted over the top of the fan intake or cut into the side of the blower housing, both of which seriously compromised the blower operation.

Click to expand...

Agreed on mounting to the blower housing - I steered away from the O.E. Briggs cooler because it is mounted to the blower housing, this is also their design on the Vanguard vertical shaft engines too:


My setup does not involve the blower or the housing at all, it is mounted along with a remote oil filter to the ROPS. Photos at: http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/members/ken_clifton-albums-my-tiger-cub.html

Looking at the photos of Motoman's cooler, it is not mounted to the blower either.

My oil temperature measurements are from a mechanical boiler gauge mounted directly in the oil flow to the oil filter. I do not have trouble with the oil being too cool -- not at all.

And, I agree on keeping the fins clean. I specifically designed my air filter where the only thing that I need to do to remove the blower housing is simply loosen five bolts and remove the blower intake screen and screws. Of course the newer Intek blower housing also has two inspection covers over the top of the cylinder heads -- a lot of cleaning can be done through those as well.

ken_clifton

ken_clifton said:

Regarding the aluminium intake. I have replaced one other on a 26 HP Intek. Looking at the parts manual the same plastic intake is the same on the 26 and 27 HP as well as most of the Briggs models starting with 406777 and 407777.

Click to expand...

As well as the 406777 and 407777 models the aluminium intake is also listed for the larger bore 44 Inteks:
44L977
44P977
44Q977
44T977

ken_clifton

Seems like keeping oil within a reasonable range (auto gurus panic at 280F) is like keeping the fins clear . Two "fluids" working to transport heat away. I am sure the thermal engineers have tried every scheme imaginable by now. Picking up an Intek 24 head and feeling the light weight and small size should impress us the things work at all with cool intake mix just inches away from hot combustion and exhaust gas temp. With my Intek 24 in hot weather I have always seen the heat increase quickly during HARD work, like mowing uphill with grass catcher. Is this the poor crank and rods passing heat to the rest of the engine and the pistons undersides "feeling" the heat and adding it to combustion heat and into the head? If so one would think any cooling of the sump oil would have a beneficial effect on the whole engine.

On the other hand "casual" work in the same heat like hauling a little utility trailer hardly moves the needle. Perhaps those who do not experience 300F simply use their ?riders gently? As a consumer the so called "warranties" included with the new big box equipment are practically worthless. Why not just go ahead and create ads like we see on TV for expensive drugs like..."ask your doctor if xxx is right for you...and remember you may have thoughts of suicide , but you will feel much better..." A JOKE, A JOKE,A JOKE.

Ken , thanks for the tip on the inspection plates on the heads. I will look for them.

motoman said:

Seems like keeping oil within a reasonable range (auto gurus panic at 280F) is like keeping the fins clear... If so one would think any cooling of the sump oil would have a beneficial effect on the whole engine....On the other hand "casual" work in the same heat like hauling a little utility trailer hardly moves the needle. Perhaps those who do not experience 300F simply use their ?riders gently? ... thanks for the tip on the inspection plates on the heads. I will look for them.

Click to expand...

Motoman,
I read where the Craftsman had some trouble -- sorry --.

The blower housing I used with the inspection covers is BS P/N: 799957. One screw is all it takes to remove the inspection covers over each cylinder head. Surprising how much room is above those heads... I used that blower housing primarily because it allowed my air filter modification to work. That housing is used on engines with the Cyclonic air filter. I have some of the other parts for that, but seeing them with all the plastic and how little spring pressure is supposedly sealing that filter in worried me too much. I am much happier with a big hose clamp tightly sealing things -- and the AEM Dryflow (Brute-Force) filter and dry charger.

I have read a lot about how even the synthetic oils thin way out after about 250 degrees. I feel much better with the temps lower. I posted in the "build it yourself" forum here about my 2 quart filter stuff: http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/38834-Remote-Oil-Filter-Oil-Coolers-and-2-Quart-Filter?p=243578#post243578

With my setup, I don't notice much difference between cutting 12 inch high grass with a catcher and 4 inch high stuff. The temp seems to come up quicker though under load.

ken_clifton

I looked closer at your setup and see the advantage of the different blower housing. I suppose a rider would require a cutout for the air cleaner, but hmmmm...Also the combined gauge looks almost like a stepper with the sharp pointed needles. I am just taking delivery of a Depo Japan sourced oil temp gauge with stepper needle AND led readout. Doing this because the analog BeeDee sweep needle always left me trying to calculate the temps in between the major numbers shown on the face. I will revamp the existing dashboard layout by featuring oil press and temp and moving the ammeter and hr meter. Maybe I should scout around for an "exposed" polyneck air filter I can clamp . First in, just the oil temp gauge in the remote chance the oil temps on this Intek 24 are cooler than my Craftsman has been, and I do not need the cooler (fat chance)... BTW cutting grass out the chute is LOT easier work for engine than forcing it up the collection chute and piling on the weight in the three bags ,I have observed. I have mentioned before that IMO the craftsman slick brochures showing that setup is a "destructive " ad for many homeowners. I believe such rigs should use sweepers which may produce less load although requiring additional passes.

Edit . And even closer looks at pic 2 and 3 shows that the gauge is mechanical,not stepper. Is that a thermostat on top of the filter? You are using two (wow) coolers just like my one. Very nice and potent looking rig!!

motoman said:

And even closer looks at pic 2 and 3 shows that the gauge is mechanical,not stepper. Is that a thermostat on top of the filter? You are using two (wow) coolers just like my one. Very nice and potent looking rig!!

Click to expand...

Here is a link to the mechanical Honeywell boiler gauge: http://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywell-TD-090-1-4-NPT-3-1-8-Face-Temperature-Pressure-Gauge-Tridicator

I have been real happy with the simplicity of it. Just one threaded connection, nothing to mount and no wires to run. I just discovered it this summer. Prior to that I would have been making two connections, and running tubing and wire probably. Anyway it is an easy to read thing with a 3 1/8th face. The LED gauge you have on the way sounds real accurate.

No thermostat on top of the oil filter -- the remote mount is very universal it has multiple inputs and outputs, I just plugged two of them. On the coolers, keep in mind that one is for the engine and the other one is for the hydraulics. The size of the coolers is just right for a 120 mm computer fan if I ever decide to go that route. Those fans can be had really cheaply. I have also found a push-in thermostat and relay on eBay that I could use to control them. I don't think the fans will be necessary though.

If you wanted to go with a bigger cooler Tru-Cool makes one the same length as what we have but twice as wide. That would be a lot of heat dissipation.

ken_clifton

Just finished bush-hogging with the SCAG. I should have used the JD 1020, but it is hard to get under those chestnut trees with the tractor. The grass was up about 18 inches, the Intek's oil temp was running 265 today doing all that work...

I finished up the metal air cleaner assembly and got it all mounted to the SCAG. I created a thread with a bunch of photos of that "engineering" over in the "build it yourself" forum: http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/38900-Covered-Metal-Air-Filter-Adapted-to-a-Briggs-Intek

ken_clifton

And my dyt 4000 would have probably been at 280F+ and probably could not have handled 18" weeds.. Got the new stepper gauge today.

motoman said:

And my dyt 4000 would have probably been at 280F+ and probably could not have handled 18" weeds.. Got the new stepper gauge today.

Click to expand...

Keep us posted on the gauge and the oil temps Motoman. I hope the temps are not too bad. Remember Briggs says ambient plus 190-210 deg F without an oil cooler. That is real warm when the temps are 90 degrees they are looking for 280F. Your data points will be interesting.

ken_clifton

Ken, The ref to the Briggs guideline (heat formula above) is the first I have seen and would have answered a big question I had when first joining this form years back. The only thing approaching an official statement until now was a dealer statement that 270F and below was "OK." If the big box riders sitting in front of Lowes carried the FDA-like warnings such as "caution this machine is subject to overheating," sales would suffer. (Understatement) Are zero turns cooler running because of the open design , in your opinion? So that guideline suggests no mowing should be done as ambient climbs to e.g., 100F??? I did not see that warning in the Craftsman manual. :laughing:

motoman said:

Ken, If the big box riders sitting in front of Lowes carried the FDA-like warnings such as "caution this machine is subject to overheating," sales would suffer. (Understatement) Are zero turns cooler running because of the open design , in your opinion? So that guideline suggests no mowing should be done as ambient climbs to e.g., 100F??? I did not see that warning in the Craftsman manual.

Click to expand...

Motoman, I believe a whole lot of this mowing equipment is targeted for "residential use." Most of the time I don't see a stable oil temp until after about 2 hours of mowing. Most of the residential folks are probably not going to run the machine long enough to hit the maximum oil temp.

It has been 8 years, but it seems like the SCAG warranty actually provided an acreage size for their residential warranty. I think a lot of these companies just figure the folks purchasing them will only mow about 50 hours a year and if it hangs together for 5 years, then all is good from their perspective.

On the zero turns, it seems to me that they would naturally be drawing in cooler air into the blower. There is no cowl over the top holding in all that heat... And more air flow over the outside of the sump, and case on the zero turn.

Your data point (oil temp measurements) on your new Intek will be interesting to see after 2 hours of use. That oil has to be getting real warm.

If I had it to do over, I would go with the oil cooler that is 8 inches wide instead of 4 -- it is amazing how hot that oil gets. Then you have the oil testing on a lot of the Briggs and other air cooled lawn engines saying how they really shear the oil (see BITOG site), much more than other engines.

ken_clifton

When I bought my Craftsman dyt 4000 Sears has guidelines after asking how large a customer's mowed lot is. I told them 1 1/2 acre and they suggested the 48 deck. It takes me a couple hours to mow and at 84F ambient my temp is full on within 1/2 hour. But you may be right about the targeted customer. If 5 years is the expectancy the 10 or more years some get with moderate to hard usage is beyond expectations. This big box business is really quite strange when you stand back. One would think the customer base would shrink and shrink. It seems too that so called "reliability reports" published by consumer pubs is really a disservice as it typically asks owners about the first couple years ownership.

Motoman, you might find the discussion about engine oil temperature at this link: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/engine-oil-temperature/
of interest, even though it is primarily focused on water-cooled engines.

One excerpt:

It goes on to say:

ken_clifton