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NO MORE OIL CHANGES​

Our XTX Series™ engine never needs an oil change. Just top it off every now and then and you’re good to go.

Kohler engine...???? found this on the Kohler web site. I'm kind of like don't know what to say. Can the Pro's enlighten me?
New trend? Not everyone has caught up to fuel injection yet.

briggs has the "just check n' add" engines.... All marketing BS.
That's what a suction pump is for, tube down the dipstick hole and suck it all out and refill with fresh oil.

Mattmotors said:

NO MORE OIL CHANGES​

Our XTX Series™ engine never needs an oil change. Just top it off every now and then and you’re good to go.

Kohler engine...???? found this on the Kohler web site. I'm kind of like don't know what to say. Can the Pro's enlighten me?
New trend? Not everyone has caught up to fuel injection yet.

Click to expand...

In an effort to appear "green" the marketing morons at Kohler and B&S are now selling engines with no real changes from older engines that now no longer need oil changes. So when it starts burnig oil just keep adding till you can't stand the smoke from the worn engine. Of course as crappy as the push mowers these engines are mounted on the engines will probably outlast the rest of the mower. <rant off>

And ya just buy another when that one dies...

I'd change it anyhow..

Hammermechanicman said:

In an effort to appear "green" the marketing morons at Kohler and B&S are now selling engines with no real changes from older engines that now no longer need oil changes. So when it starts burnig oil just keep adding till you can't stand the smoke from the worn engine. Of course as crappy as the push mowers these engines are mounted on the engines will probably outlast the rest of the mower. <rant off>

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All this no oil change does is appease the people that never changed the oil anyway. people were not changing their push mower oil in the 70's so why start now. The idea is the engine is designed to last about 10 years or 125 hours and the average push mower is replaced something like every 3.5 years so most never make it to their life expectancy before being set on the curb with a free sign on them.

kohler has had these motors out for several years already, my own on a toro is now 3 years old, and my personal guess about no oil change, is since they are made in china ,seem to be clones of a honda like many others , just maybe they are really on i don't care throw away machines

Just adds to abuse of the equipment. Some users are just that lazy and cheap. They rather spend the money on the vices like beer, cigerettes, drugs, etc. I got several that bitches everytime one of their engine bites the big one. I current a rider in the shop that has been abused a lot including coming with oil barely showing the dipstick. It is only 5 yrs old and the customer is thinking about buying a commercial unit. I got news for them it will not last any longer if he don't keep oil in it.

OH HOW TRUE!
while i am a semi retired master auto tech. I to repair lawn eqp. both at home and for a small local OPE shop. machines come in with the owner saying it will not run and i can't pull the cord, zero oil and locked up as tight as they can get, OH i need to add or change the oil, OM say s it's not needed or they suffer from ethanol gas issues from improper long term storage

Having worked in an EPA agency, the push has been to reduce used oil, just like the push to reduce gasoline consumption. I don't agree with it but that has been the push, mostly California driven. That push is part of why engine manufacturers have all these don't need to change oil engines. People just haven't been responsible with the used oil when they change it. Too much of it has ended up in local streams and ground water, land fills etc.. Perfect example, neighbor changes oil, it sits in the drain pan for months outside until the rains come. Water fills the drain pan, oil overflows, goes down driveway, and into nearby creek. They didn't mean harm but once in the creek it kills a salmon spawning area. So the way to stop that is make it harder for people to change the oil, and that is what the EPA agencies have pushed for.

Well personally here all used oil get taken in to be recycled so I am hopefully doing my part. Just took in 10 gallons over the weekend.

Remember, they didn't want the home owner to adjust carbs(Those of us that knew they needed adjustment). Had to take it to a shop.

A few decades ago we had 4 refineries that reprocess used oil and this product was very good
However the big oil companies jointly mounted a massive advertising campaign which basically said if you use the reprocessed oil you car will blow up
It worked a treat so 3 of them that sold to retail closed down.
The 4th only sold the oil in bulk to major oil uses like trucking companies & construction companies and they have gone from strength to strength
When I had a pailing fence I used the old oil to paint the pailings from the bottom rail to the end.
This was a time honoured way of disposing of old oil and preserving the wooden fence
On the farm all of the exposed timber still gets the same treatment regardless of the EPA down here banning it .
The problem with all EPA's is they don't have enough money to do real life situation testing and rely very heavily on artifical lab tests .
A lot of these tests are funded by vested interest to achieve a result that is financially benficial to them.
Then this becomes a law like the one that made painting timber with old oil illegal .
In the small qualtities nature can handle old oil, there is a host of micro organisms that will attack it breaking it back down into it's elements to be recycled .
In heavier concentrations there are mushrooms that will grow in oil contaminated soil and clean it while growing .
Even better is the flowering heads are excellent cattle food .
However the process got banned based on information from Caltex .
I ran out courier fleet on retreaded tyres and again Sydney had 3 retreading plants so then the tyre companies did a job on retreads with the message the using them murders your children.
Same result 0 sales to the general public so 2 plats closed down.
The final plant sold directly to taxi companies and because of the limited vehicles that could be used as taxis they had enough volume to make the process viable.
Then we deregulated taxi services so they can use any car
the nett result is 250,000 more tyres stockpiled till they "accidentially" catch fire .

FWIW My old oil goes to reprocessing plant that simply strains & dewaters it then sells it to shipping companies to be burned in their engines once in international waters .

I always collect my oil drains, And then take them to local Auto Parts house, where I dump it in their recycle tank in back..

My vintage B&S Flattie 22" push mower gets oil changed end of each season.. And it is still cutting beautifully..
a while back I thought it was going downhill. And that winter I re-did the valves & it perked right up again..

shop uses waste oil to make heat in the winter , guess that's just recycling at one of the best ways

Years ago I was at an automotive engine rebuilder and he showed me a hot rod trans am engine that was blown because the owner never changed the oil. It sticks in my mind to this day and I’ll never go without changing the oil. Especially true is the fact that after engine breakin there are micro particles that will grit the engine causing wear. As earlier mentioned, sure they’ll be glad to sell you a new engine. Meanwhile I still have 2 Wisconsin TRA-10s from 1968 that run like a charm.

sgkent said:

Having worked in an EPA agency, the push has been to reduce used oil, just like the push to reduce gasoline consumption. I don't agree with it but that has been the push, mostly California driven. That push is part of why engine manufacturers have all these don't need to change oil engines. People just haven't been responsible with the used oil when they change it. Too much of it has ended up in local streams and ground water, land fills etc.. Perfect example, neighbor changes oil, it sits in the drain pan for months outside until the rains come. Water fills the drain pan, oil overflows, goes down driveway, and into nearby creek. They didn't mean harm but once in the creek it kills a salmon spawning area. So the way to stop that is make it harder for people to change the oil, and that is what the EPA agencies have pushed for.

Click to expand...

I truly wonder if more is spilled because of changes or because the oil sludged up and sent a rod through the block.

I agree with Briantii. The manufacturers fail to realize or likely ignore the fact the blow by or throwing oil doesn't get rid of the massive sludge in the bottom crankcase, wearing out mains, guides, etc. That never goes away by just adding oil. Ridiculous!!!

Mattmotors said:

NO MORE OIL CHANGES​

Our XTX Series™ engine never needs an oil change. Just top it off every now and then and you’re good to go.

Kohler engine...???? found this on the Kohler web site. I'm kind of like don't know what to say. Can the Pro's enlighten me?
New trend? Not everyone has caught up to fuel injection yet.

Click to expand...

That's the dumbest idea ever. It's for LAZY home owners who will never check or change the oil anyways. I get customers how are more worried about getting the blade sharpen than if it has any oil in the motor. Run it till it dies and then complain about what a POS the mower was.

it doesn't have to make sense for them to do it. Example: 2/14/2022 the National Academy of Sciences published the first thorough peer-reviewed research paper on the true complete cost of corn ethanol in gasoline, which includes all the steps that go into it. Simply put, their research found that the overall cost of using corn as an ethanol source generates 24% more CO2 than non-ethanol fuels, and on top of that does much more damage to the soils and water. Now that we all have the science, has that affected how the current administration pushes using corn ethanol in fuel?

You cannot educate the Stupid. Clever marketing ploy. Burn up the engine. Throw it all away. Buy buy buy.
I warm up my ICE's every Spring and Change oil and filters. Synthetic in the Snowblower for easy starting.

I take all my used engine oil and hydraulic oils to a friend who owns a car repair shop and has a used oil burner/heater. Works great and he loves the hydraulic oil because it is great burning. Those of you that live in cold weather regions should check with your local shops to see if they have a used oil burner and would like your used oil. Obviously, if you mix non-oil items like anti-freeze, they cannot take it and you should be sure to be honest about what you have. Most places in Mass that sell motor oil also take used back as mentioned above.

Mattmotors said:

NO MORE OIL CHANGES​

Our XTX Series™ engine never needs an oil change. Just top it off every now and then and you’re good to go.

Kohler engine...???? found this on the Kohler web site. I'm kind of like don't know what to say. Can the Pro's enlighten me?
New trend? Not everyone has caught up to fuel injection yet.

Click to expand...

Many years ago,I had a 1957 Ford 2d sedan with an inline 6 that leaked and burnt a considerable amount of oil and I had to add oil nearly every time I drove it. The oil was constantly being "changed", but I still changed the oil and filter at the recommended mileage. It lasted me all through high school driving years and then some. Still ran great when I traded it in for a newer car. My opinion on this 'add as you need it' BS is that the contaminants are getting stronger and stronger as time goes on!

Mattmotors said:

NO MORE OIL CHANGES​

Our XTX Series™ engine never needs an oil change. Just top it off every now and then and you’re good to go.

Kohler engine...???? found this on the Kohler web site. I'm kind of like don't know what to say. Can the Pro's enlighten me?
New trend? Not everyone has caught up to fuel injection yet.

Click to expand...

Don't be the next idiot by believing a gas powered engine doesn't need regular oil changes. Think of it like this---If you have a sink filled with hot soapy water to clean dinner dishes, and after the dishes are cleaned you don't drain the dirty water. Instead you just keep adding more dirty dishes after each meal. Whatcha think that water will look like? How clean will you be able to get those dishes?

Hammermechanicman said:

In an effort to appear "green" the marketing morons at Kohler and B&S are now selling engines with no real changes from older engines that now no longer need oil changes. So when it starts burnig oil just keep adding till you can't stand the smoke from the worn engine. Of course as crappy as the push mowers these engines are mounted on the engines will probably outlast the rest of the mower. <rant off>

Click to expand...

I have been servicing small engines since 1966. I get this change for two reasons. IN all those years, I have never seen an engine worn out from dirty oil. I have seen hundreds dead for lack of oil. Second reason is our world can use less oil changes for small engines, as much of it ends up sitting around in containers till it gets spilled on the down hill wells or gets burned at best in a used oil burner. On an aside, adding oil adds fresh additives and these engines do not cake the oil like other application. In addition, the number of hours on the units where no oil change is allowed are low hour applications period.

donens2018 said:

I agree with Briantii. The manufacturers fail to realize or likely ignore the fact the blow by or throwing oil doesn't get rid of the massive sludge in the bottom crankcase, wearing out mains, guides, etc. That never goes away by just adding oil. Ridiculous!!!

Click to expand...

Manufacturers aren’t that stupid. They are made up of people like you and I! I think you might not be realizing some of the points some of the others have already made. Even before the no-oil-change small engines were released, there were a significant number of owners not changing their oil and they were happy with the life of their engines. In many cases the engines were made so well that they still outlasted the mower or machine that they powered. They also know that there are owners that will still change their oil even though they say they don’t need to. It’s an environmental and marketing thing.

I work for an engine manufacturer. I was recently on a tug with two large v12s. It was this fleet’s newest boat. Had the original factory air filters which were plugged and no oil change yet, oil very dirty. These were hundreds of thousands of dollars in engines, not including gears, shafts, and controls. An engine manufacturer has 0 control over what a customer does with what we sell them. All we can do is potentially opt to not provide warranty coverage.

There is no comparison between modern high performance engines & very low stressed very primitive mower engines .
Modern push mower engines are not much different to what was in motorcycles in the 1930's
They will run quite happily on oil that is bordering on grease consistency, just provided there is enough thin stuff to get between the big end & the journal then splash up to the little end.
The thousands of sprint engines that every tech has pulled down where the sumps needed to be scraped clean after digging out the build up attest to this .
This is why I find all the posts where people are agonizing about which filter to fit side splittingly funny .
And what oil to use comes a close second .

From the engine makers point of view the engine only has to outlive the warranty period .
The sooner after that it fails the better for them & the worse for the planet
So the no oil change mowers will probably run quite well if the oil level is kept up.
All that will happen is when it wears out & starts getting smokey it will be totally worn out & beyond economic repair .
From the factorys view this is great as they do not need to provide repair parts like oversized pistons & rings & under sized con rods as everything will be worn beyond the service limit.
So
1) appeals to lazy customers
2) sells more new engines
3) reduces inventory of service parts
Win win win if you are a shareholder
Loose loose loose if you want your children to be able to walk the planet without carrying oxygen bottles .

bertsmobile1 said:

This is why I find all the posts where people are agonizing about which filter to fit side splittingly funny .
And what oil to use comes a close second .

Click to expand...

Ain't that the truth.

sootypipe said:

Manufacturers aren’t that stupid. They are made up of people like you and I! I think you might not be realizing some of the points some of the others have already made. Even before the no-oil-change small engines were released, there were a significant number of owners not changing their oil and they were happy with the life of their engines. In many cases the engines were made so well that they still outlasted the mower or machine that they powered. They also know that there are owners that will still change their oil even though they say they don’t need to. It’s an environmental and marketing thing.

I work for an engine manufacturer. I was recently on a tug with two large v12s. It was this fleet’s newest boat. Had the original factory air filters which were plugged and no oil change yet, oil very dirty. These were hundreds of thousands of dollars in engines, not including gears, shafts, and controls. An engine manufacturer has 0 control over what a customer does with what we sell them. All we can do is potentially opt to not provide warranty coverage.

Click to expand...

Research put out by the small engine manufacturers, and you can take it for what you want, claim that by replacing 20% of the oil volume is sufficient to replenish the additives in the oil. The distance between the full and add marks just happens to be 20% of the oil volume. the average oil change interval on an auto engines works out to between 50-100 hours. Which for an engine that is used on a push mower where these no oil change engine are used is around 4-8 years by average annual usage. The no oil change engine is engineered for an average life of 125 hours. Which works out to about a 10 year life span.

ILENGINE said:

Research put out by the small engine manufacturers, and you can take it for what you want, claim that by replacing 20% of the oil volume is sufficient to replenish the additives in the oil. The distance between the full and add marks just happens to be 20% of the oil volume. the average oil change interval on an auto engines works out to between 50-100 hours. Which for an engine that is used on a push mower where these no oil change engine are used is around 4-8 years by average annual usage. The no oil change engine is engineered for an average life of 125 hours. Which works out to about a 10 year life span.

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125 hours = 10 years ?
average 1 hour per mow & 25 mows a year = 5 years
Down here it would b around 35 to 45 mows a year.
The MAC truck has a 10 gallon sump & they recommending changing 1/3 of the oil at each scheduled change
The 40 Hp Internationals have 10 gallon sumps & they recommended changing at least 1/2 the oil with each change .
However to do that you drain the sump completely let it stand overnight then put the fresh oil in and top up with the old oil decanted off the top of the bucket so the solids end up in the removed oil .
I can see how that works with a 10 gallon sump.
Not too sure the same applies to a 450ml sump .

Must be a different setup on the Macks than the Mack dump trucks I changed oil on back in 2009. Those had 36-38 qts oil changes. 9 to 9-1/2 gallons. Now of course that might be the difference in US nd imperial gallons too.

Hammermechanicman said:

Ain't that the truth.

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"The Deacon's Masterpiece" :-D
How about I add, "The Wonderful One-horse Shay"?

bertsmobile1 said:

125 hours = 10 years ?
average 1 hour per mow & 25 mows a year = 5 years
Down here it would b around 35 to 45 mows a year.
The MAC truck has a 10 gallon sump & they recommending changing 1/3 of the oil at each scheduled change
The 40 Hp Internationals have 10 gallon sumps & they recommended changing at least 1/2 the oil with each change .
However to do that you drain the sump completely let it stand overnight then put the fresh oil in and top up with the old oil decanted off the top of the bucket so the solids end up in the removed oil .
I can see how that works with a 10 gallon sump.
Not too sure the same applies to a 450ml sump .

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Based on the average consumer usage of 12.5 hours per year. Some will run much longer than that, some an average mow is 30 minutes or less.

ILENGINE said:

Based on the average consumer usage of 12.5 hours per year. Some will run much longer than that, some an average mow is 30 minutes or less.

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Yelp that about as long as they can mow without a beer...

Lmao, has anyone viewed the YouTube videos of customer states? There are many consumers that don’t change oil in anything they own much less do any maintenance. It funny to watch when they take the car to a repair shop because of a knocking from the engine. When the technician removes the drain plug and a small amount of sludge comes out. Then they usually insert a screwdriver that comes out covered with a tar like substance attached to it ?. I will stick to my regular oil changes/recycling as it is way less expensive than replacing with new equipment ?

I think you guys are right it's just a sign to stop fixing things. Those of us that weld, repair, paint or work with our hands in any way are the enemy. You must stupid and lazy and drink whatever cool aid is presented. But whatever DO NOT ENGAGE YOUR BRAIN!!! Just keep consuming the idiot Facebook/Twitter trash.

Just throw it away and purchase something new thru Amazon. It's all about the junk tech companies that have had zero regulation because they vote left wing. The correct terms are Crony Capitalism and Regulatory Capture. No need to regulate Apple, Microsoft, Google because they already drink the left wing cool aid.

Just don't talk about our real problems? Monopolies from Hell. Why is it bad to have oil company and telephone company monopolies but it's perfectly OK to have software monopolies (Microsoft) and internet monopolies (Google)? In fact these modern day monopolies absolutely dwarf anything from the past like AT&T or Standard Oil.

The continued destruction of small business by Amazon. The worst is the theft of our privacy from Garbage Google. Your privacy is like your virginity. Whether you know it or not all you info is out there because of the junk companies making money on you without your permission. Once it's gone ,it's gone. I love how Garbage Google now has a privacy policy yet their business model SEO is pure theft??

A sad government failure and I am not one to encourage further regulation either!
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Common sense.... quality lubricants, changed as needed. saves headaches and money.
Yes, current lubricants are much better than those of even the 70's and 80's, but especially in engines which have no oil filtration, an oil change every 20 hours or seasonally should allow your engine decades of trouble free operation. Growing up, we had an OLD 16 horse Briggs pump motor that had MANY MANY hours under load every year. Grandad had us change the oil 4 times a year. As far as I know, it's still running somewhere.
All my small engines (mowers, pressure washer, ATVs, UTV, Cat Skidsteer) purr nicely through Texas heat on Rotella 15-40 T4 or T5 Synthetic.

My push mower,Honda clone (OHV) works with 20W50 oil, change every year in april, no problem never, lot of years
There is no oil that maintain properties more than a year after heated.

peteco said:

My push mower,Honda clone (OHV) works with 20W50 oil, change every year in april, no problem never, lot of years
There is no oil that maintain properties more than a year after heated.

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I change in the Fall at the end of mowing season. I feel it is better to have the engine spend the downtime with new oil,rather than have the old oil settling out over the winter months. Just how I do it, no recommendation to others.

SamB said:

I change in the Fall at the end of mowing season. I feel it is better to have the engine spend the downtime with new oil,rather than have the old oil settling out over the winter months. Just how I do it, no recommendation to others.

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the same I do!!

Mattmotors said:

NO MORE OIL CHANGES​

Our XTX Series™ engine never needs an oil change. Just top it off every now and then and you’re good to go.

Kohler engine...???? found this on the Kohler web site. I'm kind of like don't know what to say. Can the Pro's enlighten me?
New trend? Not everyone has caught up to fuel injection yet.

Click to expand...

I realize this is a slightly older post but someone pretty much hit the nail on the head. This is a non commercial engine on a non commercial very budget friendly piece of equipment with a life rating of 115 hours. The oil change interval if it had one would have been 100 hours. Considering the engine would likely be worn out in 15 more hours what would be the point of changing the oil? Nothing says you aren't allowed to change it. You can change it every 5 hours if you want to. There is no drain plug which is pretty common these days and the suggested method of draining the old oil on longer life engines similar to this one is to tip the mower so the oil will drain out of the fill tube.

VegetiveSteam said:

I realize this is a slightly older post but someone pretty much hit the nail on the head. This is a non commercial engine on a non commercial very budget friendly piece of equipment with a life rating of 115 hours. The oil change interval if it had one would have been 100 hours. Considering the engine would likely be worn out in 15 more hours what would be the point of changing the oil? Nothing says you aren't allowed to change it. You can change it every 5 hours if you want to. There is no drain plug which is pretty common these days and the suggested method of draining the old oil on longer life engines similar to this one is to tip the mower so the oil will drain out of the fill tube.

Click to expand...

I have a vacuum tube, looks similar to a grease gun without the side pump handle. Just stick the sucker tube down the dipstick hole and pull the handle. I take the drain plug out on my mowers,but I have this for my boat motor. It'd work fine on a mower engine,I'd bet.