No Ethanol vs Ethanol Gas

[7997T]

I know what is said about everyone's opinions ! Is it really worth the 85 cent extra cost over 93 octane gas to no ethanol gas? I will refilling at least 1 time every month.

 

[sgkent]

Before ethanol gasoline I never had problems with carbs on my mowers. They lasted like everything else. Since ethanol gas I've had nothing but problems. It is always a warped or swollen gasket causing issues, or corroded metal in a carb. Lately I have started using canned fuel and I can tell you that the equipment is more stable and starts perfectly on the first pull. Do whatever you want to.

 

[Hammermechanicman]

I use regular pump gas in everthing. 36hp zero turn, lo-boy tractor, 3 chainsaws, 2 string trimmers, hedge trimmer, blower, lawn boy mower, pole saw, 2 generators. Snowblower, Chipper, edger with no problems. I do run everthing dry at the end of its season. Ethanol gas runs fine it just doesn't store well.

 

[BigBlueEdge]

I've used standard (ethanol-containing) gasoline in every engine I run, with the exception of small 2-strokes like my chainsaws and weed trimmer (primarily because the mixed fuel for those sits for a long time). I have never had a problem with any of the things people say ethanol does to carbs and rubber components. Even on 20+ year old carbed motorcycles, snowmobiles, and 40+ year old Briggs & Stratton tiller.

I do occasionally put non-oxy 92 in my fuel-injected motorcycle because it requires premium anyway, doesn't take much and sometimes the gas sits for a long time in the tank. But I've also put tons of standard ethanol through it.

I'd never waste the extra money on non-oxy gas in my zero-turn.

 

[sgkent]

Here in the part of California we are in, e-10 ethanol in pump gasoline is mandatory. They tried something else in the 90's (MTBE) but it was getting into the ground water and lakes. I keep accurate logs of mpg for all our cars and know exactly how they perform. The two FI ones are quite stable however every once in awhile the mileage would drop significantly . Several times it dropped the same week on both cars that use the same station. Since then we changed stations. The way the laws read here, the percentage of alcohol is regulated, but not the percentage of water in that alcohol. So what we think happens is once in a while someone has cut the fuel with water intentionally or unintentionally. Since ethanol will absorb water, it would be easy to add some water to the tanker, or tanks and dilute the fuel. From research, E10 will hold up to 3 teaspoons of water per gallon. That is 11.7 gallons per full tanker truck. 3 loads a day X 11.7 gallons X $3 gallon wholesale then = $105 a day extra in one's pocket, and no one would see it. For station tanks multiply that by the number of tanks. The ethanol in the fuel would absorb it, and then it would go thru the system with slightly reduced power. I suspect this is what happens. This may not happen in other parts of the US or Canada but I am 99% sure it does here. There is no way two of our cars would both drop 3 to 4 mpg the same week, same station pumps, same driving conditions. I am tired of rebuilding small equipment carbs that fail with this ethanol fuel, and I do blame it for the increase in problems.

 

[BigBlueEdge]

Well, if you're in CA that may explain the differences in experiences. I'm sure CA's gas formulation isn't the same as what we have in MN.

 

[7997T]

Here in the part of California we are in, e-10 ethanol in pump gasoline is mandatory. They tried something else in the 90's (MTBE) but it was getting into the ground water and lakes. I keep accurate logs of mpg for all our cars and know exactly how they perform. The two FI ones are quite stable however every once in awhile the mileage would drop significantly . Several times it dropped the same week on both cars that use the same station. Since then we changed stations. The way the laws read here, the percentage of alcohol is regulated, but not the percentage of water in that alcohol. So what we think happens is once in a while someone has cut the fuel with water intentionally or unintentionally. Since ethanol will absorb water, it would be easy to add some water to the tanker, or tanks and dilute the fuel. From research, E10 will hold up to 3 teaspoons of water per gallon. That is 11.7 gallons per full tanker truck. 3 loads a day X 11.7 gallons X $3 gallon wholesale then = $105 a day extra in one's pocket, and no one would see it. For station tanks multiply that by the number of tanks. The ethanol in the fuel would absorb it, and then it would go thru the system with slightly reduced power. I suspect this is what happens. This may not happen in other parts of the US or Canada but I am 99% sure it does here. There is no way two of our cars would both drop 3 to 4 mpg the same week, same station pumps, same driving conditions. I am tired of rebuilding small equipment carbs that fail with this ethanol fuel, and I do blame it for the increase in problems.

I deliver fuel to stations. Can not speak to CA Reformulation laws. What I do know is here in Indiana you will notice a change in MPG when the summer blend comes in. This can take anywhere from 2 to 10 days depending on the volume of gas in the tanks at the loading terminal. Also can vary by your branded gas stations also. We move upwards of 350000 gallons of regular a day of 1 brand and 17000 gallons of another. So it takes longer for the lower volume brands to switch over. Granted other companies pull out if those terminals also.

 

[sgkent]

I am sure that 99% of the station owners and drivers are honest people. We just had it happen at one station that we used to use. It was a Top Tier brand too. I spoke with their corporate Engineers when it happened to let them know so they could deal with it. We now use another Top Tier across the street and it hasn't happened there, but I still have the occasional carb problem. I keep things in like new condition for a long time. Most of the folks around here don't even change their mower oil, and just buy a new mower when their old one dies. I wasn't raised that way.

 

[bertsmobile1]

Weather ethanol will cause you any grief is totally dependent upon the actual formula of your local fuel and the microclimate where your mower is stored.
Rule of thumb is using the e-XT fuel regularly will not cause grief
Letting it sit for a long time will and this includes the cans you use to fill your mower with.
Whatever happens it is TIME dependent because the diffusion reactions are slow.
My recommendations to customers is to buy fuel as it is needed
When they finish mowing turn off the fuel & starve the engine off then top up the tank with whatever is left in the filling can thus there is only 1 partially filled container to condense water out of the air that can be adsorbed into the ethanol till the ethanol drops out of solution.
That is the point of problems starting.
All of the other stuff comes from mowers that were not made from ethanol resistant materials so will be 20 years old and thus suffering a lot of age related problems which people like to blame on the ethanol.
Add to that most consumer grade mowers are trash designed to make the retailers rich while destroying the planet .
So the fact your 2020 mower is constantly giving grief while your old 1990 mower ran for years faultlessly is not because of the fuel it is because the new mower is full of junk that fails and made to a very low quality but finished with real pretty powder coat ( again an short life inferior product )

 

[sgkent]

my 2006 mower has been flawless for 15 years. My stuff from the 90's started having issues when ethanol was introduced. We live in a climate where these devices are used every 7 to 10 days. The fuel never gets a chance to get really old. That said the California gas cans are sealed so they cannot leak fumes. It has been the law here for about 15 years. It is a moot point anyway because in February 2022 The National Academy of Sciences released the first comprehensive study of corn ethanol in the fuel from seed going into the ground all the way to being burned in an engine. The conclusion is that it causes approximately 25% more CO2 and pollutants in the air than 100% gasoline plus the ethanol causes also a considerable amount of damage to the soil, and water in the US. It is a peer reviewed study that took everything used in production into account. There are no savings. I said I am done and just changed over to canned fuel.

Obviously the corn industry will fight to discredit the study but the credentials of the authors are impeccable and unbiased. National Wildlife Federation helped fund it. They, like most of us, wanted to know if / how much it was helping. It isn't.

Peer-Reviewed Research: Ethanol Mandate an Unmitigated Disaster for People, Wildlife

Newly published, peer-reviewed research highlights the disastrous impact of corn ethanol for climate, communities, and wildlife.

www.nwf.org