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Customer brought me a Scotts 1642H with what he thought was only a couple of minor problems. Drive belt being the main one. After pulling the deck, I found all the idlers needing replace. Also the ones on the deck, plus the deck belt.
After a few hours of getting all the JD OEM parts list & prices, customer says he just wants to go the cheapo route because he's gonna buy him a new mower in a few months.
I've found a few parts on Amazon, but there's still a couple I'm having trouble matching to aftermarket.

I'm thinking some of the pro's here know these part numbers off the top of their heads and know of a place where matching JD parts to after market is easier.

So you are telling me that you want me to give you part numbers off the top of my head for JD pulleys and belts? I should know the exact ones you need, because you don’t want to take the time to look them up, plus can’t even supply us with the OEM numbers. Do you think the pros on this site have ESP and are your employees, I don’t think so. Time for you to do a little work on your own, just like the rest of the techs here. You can now go to the back of the long list of those who hate me when I call a spade a spade.

Rivets said:

So you are telling me that you want me to give you part numbers off the top of my head for JD pulleys and belts? I should know the exact ones you need, because you don’t want to take the time to look them up, plus can’t even supply us with the OEM numbers. Do you think the pros on this site have ESP and are your employees, I don’t think so. Time for you to do a little work on your own, just like the rest of the techs here. You can now go to the back of the long list of those who hate me when I call a spade a spade.

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Oh no.. You got me all wrong, man. Not looking for someone to look up all these parts for me. Just maybe a reference page that has JD number that can be cross referenced to stens or other aftermarket brands. Something I can bookmark for later use.
Like I said, I've cross matched most of them. Just hoping to find a way of doing a little faster.
Looking up all those JD part numbers, one by one yesterday took a long time. And still came down to not getting all of them.
Some of the parts listed on JD's website, said to contact dealer on prices. And most of them didn't have their sizes listed. Some just had the weight. Or maybe the OD. Not the ID or the bolt hole size.

I called Partstree yesterday and the lady told me they couldn't cross reference JD part numbers.

Sorry if I didn't express that in the OP.

Go to the Prime Line , Rotary , Oregon & Stens web pages .
Then search the list of part numbers that you have.
If there are cheaper aftermarket parts available then they will be listed .
For the belts , well we went through that proceedure in the Pix belt thread.

Now a word to the wise on this one.
Do not make a noose to hang yourself.
The owner says he is going to buy a new mower, so skip the pulleys & just do the belt.
Reason being there is a better than average chance when he gets the new one he will sell the old one listed as
"just had a full service by local technican ( might even mention you by name )
New owner buys the mower thinking you have done a full & proper refurbishment only to find it was done on the cheap and you get a cheapskate shortcut reputation.
When I get these types of jobs I write on the invoice "aftermarket parts fitted as per instructions - no warranty "

PTmowerMech said:

Oh no.. You got me all wrong, man. Not looking for someone to look up all these parts for me. Just maybe a reference page that has JD number that can be cross referenced to stens or other aftermarket brands. Something I can bookmark for later use.
Like I said, I've cross matched most of them. Just hoping to find a way of doing a little faster.
Looking up all those JD part numbers, one by one yesterday took a long time. And still came down to not getting all of them.
Some of the parts listed on JD's website, said to contact dealer on prices. And most of them didn't have their sizes listed. Some just had the weight. Or maybe the OD. Not the ID or the bolt hole size.

I called Partstree yesterday and the lady told me they couldn't cross reference JD part numbers.

Sorry if I didn't express that in the OP.

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No factory web page lists the specifications of their parts.
There is no need for it as they have told you they are the correct parts for the mower.
The aftermarket suppliers usually list the dimensions so you can verify that they are correct for the mower.
Occasionally if there have been a modification the IPL might list belt length or pulley diameters because they have changed from the original.
When I started I was spending 3 hours on the web for every hour in the workshop.
I got it down to about 0.5 for every hour with a tool in hand, excluding invoicing and as I now price match to a prominant on line retailer, that takes quite some time .

The v-idlers on the drive belt should be replaced as they wear heavy and the drive belt will bottom out in them causing belt slippage. They be the same size with just different standoff bushings. If so it just a matter changing them out on the pulleys that you can get. It been over five since I worked the last Scotts/Sarbe 1642 mower so I don't if they the two v-ilders are the same pulley with different standoff bushings or not.

Anyway if your in the business of repairs don't short change your rep. I had customers to tell me the same thing and guess what they bring the same mower back in a few years where they never replaced it.

bertsmobile1 said:

Go to the Prime Line , Rotary , Oregon & Stens web pages .
Then search the list of part numbers that you have.
If there are cheaper aftermarket parts available then they will be listed .
For the belts , well we went through that proceedure in the Pix belt thread.

Now a word to the wise on this one.
Do not make a noose to hang yourself.
The owner says he is going to buy a new mower, so skip the pulleys & just do the belt.
Reason being there is a better than average chance when he gets the new one he will sell the old one listed as
"just had a full service by local technican ( might even mention you by name )
New owner buys the mower thinking you have done a full & proper refurbishment only to find it was done on the cheap and you get a cheapskate shortcut reputation.
When I get these types of jobs I write on the invoice "aftermarket parts fitted as per instructions - no warranty "

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I was thinking about this last night. We're communication mostly on facebook messenger, mostly. Him requesting the cheap way, was done by messenger. And it's already noted on the work order. As well as the running receipt. But I did tell him, I won't put cheap aftermarket parts on the drive line. If they're aftermarket parts, they'll be decent ones. I was thinking there's also a chance that it's performing a lot better than expected when he gets it back, and don't want to sell it.
So that puts me in a position of putting good aftermarket parts on it, and not just the cheapo parts that won't last the season. Being new around here, I don't wanna get a bad rep, like you said.

bertsmobile1 said:

No factory web page lists the specifications of their parts.
There is no need for it as they have told you they are the correct parts for the mower.
The aftermarket suppliers usually list the dimensions so you can verify that they are correct for the mower.
Occasionally if there have been a modification the IPL might list belt length or pulley diameters because they have changed from the original.
When I started I was spending 3 hours on the web for every hour in the workshop.
I got it down to about 0.5 for every hour with a tool in hand, excluding invoicing and as I now price match to a prominant on line retailer, that takes quite some time .

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That's exactly what I'm going through right now. Usually, with things like Craftsman & MTD, it's pretty simple, because the part numbers cross over to just about every brand. Including the sizes. But since the part sizes aren't listed from the JD websites, measuring each one, takes a lot longer.
Especially since I don't remove a pulley, idler or much of anything else, until I get the new part in hand.

But, as it would seem, until I get a lot more familiar with JD parts, I'll have to just take the long way around.

I just signed up with Stens. Or filled out their online customer application. From what I know, Stens sells pretty reliable parts, don't they?

You can try getting the JD number and just search that number on Ebay or just Google. Many times if there is a aftermarket cross it will show up. The crapshoot is yours and the customers. I am always wary of "fix it cheap as you can" customers. On your receipt and carbon copy be sure to detail what he does not want fixed and what is warranted and what is not. Cover your butt. You do have a receipt book with carbon for your records don't you?

PTmowerMech said:

That's exactly what I'm going through right now. Usually, with things like Craftsman & MTD, it's pretty simple, because the part numbers cross over to just about every brand. Including the sizes. But since the part sizes aren't listed from the JD websites, measuring each one, takes a lot longer.
Especially since I don't remove a pulley, idler or much of anything else, until I get the new part in hand.

But, as it would seem, until I get a lot more familiar with JD parts, I'll have to just take the long way around.

I just signed up with Stens. Or filled out their online customer application. From what I know, Stens sells pretty reliable parts, don't they?

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You can put the OEM part number into the Stens search and it will tell you if it is in their system and what the stens part number is. Don't even need to login in to do it. You can't get the prices without a login but at least you will know if they have it or not. Most aftermarket parts are not cheaper than OEM in a lot of cases and in some cases are even more expensive.

PTmowerMech said:

I just signed up with Stens. Or filled out their online customer application. From what I know, Stens sells pretty reliable parts, don't they?

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Yes to do and sometimes you can get an Stens part that is actually an OEM part but at an inflated price. I have gotten Kohler parts with just a Stens label slapped over them. And recently I was looking for an aftermarket for a Husqvarna ignition switch, basically just to see if could one at a lower cost, when a Stens aftermarket showed up at 5X the price that I could get the OEM part through by distributor for. Also got to watch OEM spec belts too. On my first belt order they sent 4 out that were 1.25" too long(1/2 x 104.25"); although, they claim they were the OEM 103" belts. ON project that was to take 2 days became a 5 day project as I had re-order from my distributor the OEM belts. So for me I need to check every belt that I do order from and not trust their quoted specs will match what they send out.

Just got watch what you are ordering from any supplier and compare. Another example is the 798778 Briggs fuel bowl. Power Distributors in Ohio is wanting $99 for one that any of my other distributors are asking less than $30 for the same part.

StarTech said:

Yes to do and sometimes you can get an Stens part that is actually an OEM part but at an inflated price. I have gotten Kohler parts with just a Stens label slapped over them. And recently I was looking for an aftermarket for a Husqvarna ignition switch, basically just to see if could one at a lower cost, when a Stens aftermarket showed up at 5X the price that I could get the OEM part through by distributor for. Also got to watch OEM spec belts too. On my first belt order they sent 4 out that were 1.25" too long(1/2 x 104.25"); although, they claim they were the OEM 103" belts. ON project that was to take 2 days became a 5 day project as I had re-order from my distributor the OEM belts. So for me I need to check every belt that I do order from and not trust their quoted specs will match what they send out.

Just got watch what you are ordering from any supplier and compare. Another example is the 798778 Briggs fuel bowl. Power Distributors in Ohio is wanting $99 for one that any of my other distributors are asking less than $30 for the same part.

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Stens selling for more than OEM? How is that even possible? Obviously it's just few parts, not their entire line. But even on those few, doesn't seem like they could do that honestly.

It called suggest retail list price. They sell for whatever they get out of us. Of course it not the whole line they carry as they do have aftermarket manufactures they buy direct from and then package the item in the Stens retail packaging.

For a long time I was having to pay list and resell @20% GPM (Gross Profit Mark-up). Now with most of the distributors I landed the last two years I sell at SRP (Suggested Retail Price). I do; however, have few parts that I still pay retail for so they get the 20% GPM pricing as I give seniors a 10% discount. So I basically take my cost and divide by .80 for a 20% gross profit margin. Say you vendor gives you a 10% discount on parts; you just their invoice to you price and divide by .90.

I honestly don't what going on with Power Distributors since they buy direct from Briggs. All I know is their price file they provided is off by a lot and my rep won't respond to my question why is is off by so much. Any they lost that order this morning as I have two alternate distributor that more fairly priced to me. I also reload the one of hte other distributor price file for the Briggs line that has 55,600 SKU numbers and prices. According to my accounting system there 50,000 items that were over priced and 5600 new items added.

PTmowerMech said:

Stens selling for more than OEM? How is that even possible? Obviously it's just few parts, not their entire line. But even on those few, doesn't seem like they could do that honestly.

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Kohler OEM parts through stens prices, their dealer cost is the MSRP from Kohler. Some Walbro, Stihl, parts are that way also,

StarTech said:

Yes to do and sometimes you can get an Stens part that is actually an OEM part but at an inflated price. I have gotten Kohler parts with just a Stens label slapped over them. And recently I was looking for an aftermarket for a Husqvarna ignition switch, basically just to see if could one at a lower cost, when a Stens aftermarket showed up at 5X the price that I could get the OEM part through by distributor for. Also got to watch OEM spec belts too. On my first belt order they sent 4 out that were 1.25" too long(1/2 x 104.25"); although, they claim they were the OEM 103" belts. ON project that was to take 2 days became a 5 day project as I had re-order from my distributor the OEM belts. So for me I need to check every belt that I do order from and not trust their quoted specs will match what they send out.

Just got watch what you are ordering from any supplier and compare. Another example is the 798778 Briggs fuel bowl. Power Distributors in Ohio is wanting $99 for one that any of my other distributors are asking less than $30 for the same part.

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Doesn't help that Power Distributors is the exclusive Briggs distributor for parts to dealers for the entire USA.

ILENGINE said:

Doesn't help that Power Distributors is the exclusive Briggs distributor for parts to dealers for the entire USA.

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Hmmm they might be 100% but I can still buy thru A&I at 20% discount where PD only gives me a 10% off list (trade discount) their so-called list. Even with the 5% discount I get from RBI, they are still way cheaper then PD. And I know most dealers only get a 25% discount as dealer.
Here is the snips that proves what I said about PD prices vs A&I prices.

As Ilengine has already noted, not all parts are available aftermarket and each company will have a different price.
If you end up with a Stens account, see if you can get a hard copy of their catalogue, it is a lot faster & easier to use than the computer one.
This is particularly the case when looking for belts, blades & pulleys as it has a table of them by size.
With pulleys in particular, most now days have a 6000 series ball bearing ( although all catalogues show a double row bearing ) and the only difference between dozens of them is the bush in the center which presses out , and when you have your head around them, you will work out that in many cases you can substitute a more common pulley size for an uncommon thus very expensive pulley size .
That alone can save a lot of money.
Deere parts down here are about 1/2 to 2/3 the price of other brands because their mower division piggy backs on the agricultural equipment warehouse .
SO I buy a lot of genuine JD parts retail cheaper than aftermarket parts wholesale .

Prime Line had the best price on cables , starters & clutches.
Stens are best for belts , pulleys , bar blades ( except the Gator style which are prone to premature flute failure ) & air filters .
Oregon naturally chain saw blades bars chain & sprockets plus Gator blades .
Rotary air filters , oil filters , fuel filter, fuel taps & MTD vari Drive belts .
Where the big discounts come in are the trade packs.
Stens do 12 Packs and Rotary do 36 packs in oil filters so it becomes viable to par it down to 3 or 4 common sizes & buy the big boxes.
Briggs panel filters come in 25 or 50 packs as do several fuel filters

We have swing back blades on walk behinds and the 100 pair trade packs bring the price down to under $ 1.00 pair
Comparred to $ 4-00 to $ $ 9-00 a pair for individual pairs.
I will do 100 to 200 blade changes in a good season

StarTech said:

I honestly don't what going on with Power Distributors since they buy direct from Briggs. All I know is their price file they provided is off by a lot and my rep won't respond to my question why is is off by so much. Any they lost that order this morning as I have two alternate distributor that more fairly priced to me. I also reload the one of hte other distributor price file for the Briggs line that has 55,600 SKU numbers and prices. According to my accounting system there 50,000 items that were over priced and 5600 new items added.

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Briggs corporate sets the MSRP pricing, and then PD gets a discount percentage off of that price, and the dealers get a set discount off of that price. So on a $1 part PD may pay 30 cents and the dealer pays 70 cents. Sometimes Briggs makes some pricing errors, but the last few years I have seen MSRP prices triple on some parts from one years price list to the next one.

Anyway they lost the $200 order that was probably over $400 if I used my PD account; A&I got the order instead. Not paying $99 for a fuel bowl on a $110 carburetor. I got three of the fuel bowls @ 29.80 ea already inbound; I should get them tomorrow. Boy I could make $80 apiece on them if I was greedy.

Well all of that was a friggin nightmare. Trying to match JD parts with aftermarket ones. A trip to the John Deere dealership, I thought, would sort things out.
First rattle out of the box, at the parts counter.

Me: Hello, I'm needing these deck and drive parts for a Scott I'm working on. Model number 1642H.
Clerk: Who makes that? I'm not sure if we can get those parts.
Me: (already thinking this wasn't going to go good)

And it didn't. He finally got the sale manager over (after like 20 minutes) who helped sort things out. But when he printed out the list & cost, (over $200, which didn't include one idler he didn't have in stock). I thought to myself. Well, that didn't work out either.

But in the end, getting back online, with the knowledge you fine folks gave me, I was able to order all the parts I needed online, A couple of them were JD, but the rest were aftermarket. But kept it at about $135.

Thanks again.

P.S. I'm thinking about going up on my hourly rate for John Deere products. Too many hours just looking up and matching parts.

You can use the JD parts advisor site to find parts and part numbers. The price i see is what my dealer charges me. I look up the parts i need and call the dealer and see if in stock or need ordered. The counter people at my dealer are really great and very helpful. A hint, don't just take the model number to the dealer but take the serial number too. Many models change and need the serial number to get the right parts. I take a picture of the serial plate and just hand my phone to counter person.

If I may butt in here. JD doesn't make bearings I believe. I went over to the local NAPA store to get some deck bearings, 6203 sealed. An SKF bearing each at $18, probably out last the mower, outlast me maybe. But times 6 for the spindles and 3 more for the idlers, ouch. They had a cheaper Chinese in a NAPA box for $8 ea. Better but still hurts. Got on Ebay and bought a 10 pack for $14 shipped free. Probably Chinese factory seconds, probably last 4 or 5 years so. Wouldn't use one in my truck alternator (same bearing seems to fit everything) but good enough for the mower and easy to change anyway. Maybe not the way to go for a business though, just throwing it out there.

bertsmobile1 said:

As Ilengine has already noted, not all parts are available aftermarket and each company will have a different price.
If you end up with a Stens account, see if you can get a hard copy of their catalogue, it is a lot faster & easier to use than the computer one.
This is particularly the case when looking for belts, blades & pulleys as it has a table of them by size.
With pulleys in particular, most now days have a 6000 series ball bearing ( although all catalogues show a double row bearing ) and the only difference between dozens of them is the bush in the center which presses out , and when you have your head around them, you will work out that in many cases you can substitute a more common pulley size for an uncommon thus very expensive pulley size .
That alone can save a lot of money.
Deere parts down here are about 1/2 to 2/3 the price of other brands because their mower division piggy backs on the agricultural equipment warehouse .
SO I buy a lot of genuine JD parts retail cheaper than aftermarket parts wholesale .

Prime Line had the best price on cables , starters & clutches.
Stens are best for belts , pulleys , bar blades ( except the Gator style which are prone to premature flute failure ) & air filters .
Oregon naturally chain saw blades bars chain & sprockets plus Gator blades .
Rotary air filters , oil filters , fuel filter, fuel taps & MTD vari Drive belts .
Where the big discounts come in are the trade packs.
Stens do 12 Packs and Rotary do 36 packs in oil filters so it becomes viable to par it down to 3 or 4 common sizes & buy the big boxes.
Briggs panel filters come in 25 or 50 packs as do several fuel filters

We have swing back blades on walk behinds and the 100 pair trade packs bring the price down to under $ 1.00 pair
Comparred to $ 4-00 to $ $ 9-00 a pair for individual pairs.
I will do 100 to 200 blade changes in a good season

Click to expand...

After doing some checking into these things, I think I'm still a little ways off from getting these benefits. You guys that been in the business a while, know all the in's and out of getting suppliers like Primeline, Oregon etc etc.
At my old shop, Amazon was rarely 3 or more days. 99% of the time, they were two days. In this new location, in south central Arkansas, it's never sooner than 4 days to get parts.
There's a stihl dealership/small engine shop about 20 miles away. But every time I've needed something he was out. And he too was 3 or 4 days getting his parts.

You will get there in the end.
I use a carbon book for invoicing for all but commercial customers.
On the opposite blank page I write notes and in particular the after market part number thus I know whose parts got fitted to what mowers & some times the price I paid for them.
So the next time I get the same mower in all the hard work has been done.
on the first page I rule columns where the customers name & type of job ( P = Push SP = Self propelled , RER = rear engine rider CH chain saw etc etc etc )
For the commercial customers I print out the IPL's for their mower and make notes on that .
Saves a lot of time looking up the same things time & time again and makes it easy to check I have the required parts in stock for the scheduled overnight services.

tom3 said:

If I may butt in here. JD doesn't make bearings I believe. I went over to the local NAPA store to get some deck bearings, 6203 sealed. An SKF bearing each at $18, probably out last the mower, outlast me maybe. But times 6 for the spindles and 3 more for the idlers, ouch. They had a cheaper Chinese in a NAPA box for $8 ea. Better but still hurts. Got on Ebay and bought a 10 pack for $14 shipped free. Probably Chinese factory seconds, probably last 4 or 5 years so. Wouldn't use one in my truck alternator (same bearing seems to fit everything) but good enough for the mower and easy to change anyway. Maybe not the way to go for a business though, just throwing it out there.

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OK for a home owner Tom but a disaster for a technician
You can get 6000 series bearings in grades that are just barely good enough for a hand cart or wheel barrow right up to avaiation grade, but you can not tell the difference.
Then there is the fit , normal loose or tight and both tight & loose come in a couple of grades as well.
SO when it is my reputation on the line, it is spindle bearings from the mower shop and nothing else.
Even then I have at least 5 different 6203 depending upon where they are going to be used as there is 1/2 dozen different groove depths.
Generally if you buy a $ 2 bearing then all you get is a $2 bearing.
And the brand name on the side means nothing as the machine that prints WeeFoolUwe can also ,print SKF Nashi Torrington etc etc etc.
Sold in a tube then it is a accident in the packing shed.
Sold in a branded box then it is counterfitting

WeeFoolUwe

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Good one, have to remember that!

So the partsperson had no idea how to use JDparts. Doesn't surprise me at all where service here was telling a customer he didn't oil pump in his engine even it had an oil filter and oil pressure light or the time they could didn't a bad spark on a Stihl hedger that was under warranty.

John manufactured and sold the Scotts version you have and also sold it it under the Sabre name. Now the cheaper Scotts models were Murray Ohio made. Next I suggest you looking up the part for that particular Scotts on
or

StarTech said:

So the partsperson had no idea how to use JDparts. Doesn't surprise me at all where service here was telling a customer he didn't oil pump in his engine even it had an oil filter and oil pressure light or the time they could didn't a bad spark on a Stihl hedger that was under warranty.

John manufactured and sold the Scotts version you have and also sold it it under the Sabre name. Now the cheaper Scotts models were Murray Ohio made. Next I suggest you looking up the part for that particular Scotts on

JDParts: Homepage

or

John Deere Parts Catalog

Find parts & diagrams for your John Deere equipment. Search our parts catalog, order parts online or contact your John Deere dealer.

partscatalog.deere.com

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Yeah, he didn't know his butt from a hole in the ground. Kept writing down part numbers and then forgetting which one he's wrote down. Had to tell him a few times that there was one drive pulley the same size as the one on the deck. And he was getting pissed at me for showing him on the diagram which parts I needed... I guess he didn't want me looking at "HIS" computer screen. lol.

I probably did look at the JD home page, I looked at so many.

tom3 said:

If I may butt in here. JD doesn't make bearings I believe. I went over to the local NAPA store to get some deck bearings, 6203 sealed. An SKF bearing each at $18, probably out last the mower, outlast me maybe. But times 6 for the spindles and 3 more for the idlers, ouch. They had a cheaper Chinese in a NAPA box for $8 ea. Better but still hurts. Got on Ebay and bought a 10 pack for $14 shipped free. Probably Chinese factory seconds, probably last 4 or 5 years so. Wouldn't use one in my truck alternator (same bearing seems to fit everything) but good enough for the mower and easy to change anyway. Maybe not the way to go for a business though, just throwing it out there.

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I've learned from Bert, and a couple other here how important it is to get good quality bearings for importants parts of a mower. Especially the spindles. This one customer I have, who brought in old western auto wizard, I'm having trouble getting parts money upfront from him. Had his mower for a week now, and still not a dime. I'm starting to do that win customers who have more than $100 in parts to be ordered. Anywho, It's tempting to get the cheap ones for his deck. But he mentioned something about taking his last small engine guy to court for a few reasons. One of them was for shoddy repairs. Soooooo, I'm getting OEM bearings for him. IF he can come up with the money.
I'm gonna give him another week, if he doesn't come up with the money, I'll put his parts back on it, and take it back to his house. "No charge."

PT, I use to fall for the sad stories and I am a man of my word customers. Now it is strictly pay in full when you pickup your equipment. If the customer wants to buy the parts themselves for me to put on they can do it themselves as I don't if they even got the right parts.

Plus I had one like the one you just mention that wanted his mower repaired but refuse to install a new starter just because still cranked even it sound like starter wold go any minute. So I repaired the deck problem by replacing the idler pulley and installed the belt he provided. Next thing I know he was complaining I charged too much for the pulley and that I didn't install a Craftsman belt plus he was threatening to sue me. On top of that he claimed I broke his starter. The belt he provide was an aftermarket belt but probably would have complained even I put a Husqvarna/AYP belt by part number as that how list the parts on my invoices. I wouldn't have from Sears the same belt the Husqvarna installed on the mower.

The phone calls went on over a week with him cussing me out several times. I stood my ground as I knew I did nothing wrong other then listening to him. Well one day he called and cussed my mother out. That did it. I called the local sheriff out and after explaining to the deputy what was going he went to the customer's home. I haven't heard anything in the last 6 yrs back. No more cussing calls.

My advice would be just return the mower as he sounds like trouble to me; unless, you know the fellow that did the work does do bad workmanship. I don't like sue happy customers.

PTmowerMech said:

I've learned from Bert, and a couple other here how important it is to get good quality bearings for importants parts of a mower. Especially the spindles. This one customer I have, who brought in old western auto wizard, I'm having trouble getting parts money upfront from him. Had his mower for a week now, and still not a dime. I'm starting to do that win customers who have more than $100 in parts to be ordered. Anywho, It's tempting to get the cheap ones for his deck. But he mentioned something about taking his last small engine guy to court for a few reasons. One of them was for shoddy repairs. Soooooo, I'm getting OEM bearings for him. IF he can come up with the money.
I'm gonna give him another week, if he doesn't come up with the money, I'll put his parts back on it, and take it back to his house. "No charge."

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You are starting to learn how it works sometimes. If you fix mowers for money you are basically working under the same rules that govern auto repair shops. Most customers will want a "ballpark" figure when they drop something off. Some folks will take that as the max figure. Communication with your customers is key. When the repairs will be more than what the customer was told call and tell them what it will cost. I will give cuatomers the option of OEM or aftermarket if the difference is signifigant. There is that 1% of customers you don't really need. If they complain about other shops beware. After you do it long enough you learn what customers you need to quote a price high enough they won't leave it with you. There will always be that one customer who has a worn out mower or chainsaw that wants the forever warranty for anything. After 40 years as a service rep i can read customers pretty well. Be courteous and professional but find a reason you can't work on it. Lots of shops do it every day. If you do get involved with one of the 1% turds sometimes better to cut your losses but be sure to professionally tell them to not come back, ever.

Yelp, After years of dealing with the public you get where you read most with in a few minutes of meeting then over a possible repair. And yes always respond business like as you can even when facing an irate customer.

I had one customer last year that nearly destroyed their deck after mowing three times with it and want me to repair it for free under the warranty where I did extensive deck rebuild. I ended up repairing it at cost and telling the customer not to come back. What I suspected happen was they loaned the mower out and it came back broken.

I had a customer drop off his mower that I repaired, and then set for 3 months before he picked it up, then the next day put a stop payment on the $144 check that he wrote for payment. Guy thought he would get off cheap when I filled a claim against him in court. $316 court judgement against him with a 30 day court ordered payment sent a nice message. Found out months later that he had pulled this same stunt on 3 other shops that just let is slide.

Hammermechanicman said:

You are starting to learn how it works sometimes. If you fix mowers for money you are basically working under the same rules that govern auto repair shops. Most customers will want a "ballpark" figure when they drop something off. Some folks will take that as the max figure. Communication with your customers is key. When the repairs will be more than what the customer was told call and tell them what it will cost. I will give cuatomers the option of OEM or aftermarket if the difference is signifigant. There is that 1% of customers you don't really need. If they complain about other shops beware. After you do it long enough you learn what customers you need to quote a price high enough they won't leave it with you. There will always be that one customer who has a worn out mower or chainsaw that wants the forever warranty for anything. After 40 years as a service rep i can read customers pretty well. Be courteous and professional but find a reason you can't work on it. Lots of shops do it every day. If you do get involved with one of the 1% turds sometimes better to cut your losses but be sure to professionally tell them to not come back, ever.

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I was thinking real hard about putting his stuff back on his mower and taking it back, when a friend of his called and needed work on her mower, because of the other shop. I just got finished with it, and the other shop literally just throws things together. I found a bolt laying under the dash, that didn't get put back in. The battery they installed was a 150CCA, labeled "for 10HP." IIRC, 420CC puts out about 15hp. This engine (powermore) only has about 90lb compression, so it's probably about 12 or less.
Who knows. Anywho, after getting a referral, I thought I'd give the guy another week to come up with the money.

ILENGINE said:

I had a customer drop off his mower that I repaired, and then set for 3 months before he picked it up, then the next day put a stop payment on the $144 check that he wrote for payment. Guy thought he would get off cheap when I filled a claim against him in court. $316 court judgement against him with a 30 day court ordered payment sent a nice message. Found out months later that he had pulled this same stunt on 3 other shops that just let is slide.

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Did you get your money?

If IL is like me he got it as I had to do the same thing to a customer. Boy the court costs were three times the initial repair bill. What worst the customer had the money, just tried to get by not paying as she already had her mower back.

PTmowerMech said:

Did you get your money?

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Yes. He agreed to the payment in open court, so failure could of resulted in jail time.

The guy past away about 4 years later due to an overdose of prescription pain killers.

StarTech said:

If IL is like me he got it as I had to do the same thing to a customer. Boy the court costs were three times the initial repair bill. What worst the customer had the money, just tried to get by not paying as she already had her mower back.

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Don't you just love the look on their face when they find out their bill just tripled under court judgment.

I think the best one was last year I had a guy write me a $100 check on ended up being out of a closed account, after trying to contact him and no response turned it over to the county prosecutor. They contacted him by certified mail, and I ran into him after being served, and tried to ask me to give him extra time. I promptly sent him to talk to the prosecutor and see if they would extend him time to respond, which they gave him an extension. He missed the extension got arrested, and after pleading guilty had to pay me restitution and court cost. Total cost of restitution and court fees was $785.

Luckily i have not had a crappy customer in a few years. Funny thing is the people who want to stiff you have money.

Hammermechanicman said:

Luckily i have not had a crappy customer in a few years. Funny thing is the people who want to stiff you have money.

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The nickname of "Hammermechanic" might keep the deadbeats away?

How you recover monies will depend upon your individual state laws, but unless you are a registered business that can be a double edged sword as down here the taxman reviews all of the small claims cases looking for undeclaired income from cash businesses. We also have a federal body called the Credit Review Tribunal that compiles the cases and distributes the results to credit providers that subscribe to the service so an advese finding will kill the customers credit rating , which in my case caused a customer to loose their farm on which 4 families lived, all over a $ 685 bill .
The best defense is to have a good relationship with the other local repairers. Here it is easy as there are only 2 of us and 15 miles away 4 more.
I know them all and see them regularly to buy OEM parts ( and i don't push for discounts ) so i make sure we have a chat and non- payers are always mentioned.

Now if you want to see funny faces, try telling some one they did not pay the Still shop last year so they will have to pay me $ 200 up front before I will even look at their machine.
I even made some one stump up $ 1000 if they wanted the work done then gave them back the change.
There is no formal mower shop organization, but if the customers think there is then they can not divide & dupe . .

And just a note, when I have to buy OEM parts, I add $ 15 "courier" fee to the bill explaining that not being an XYZ agent I have to pay a delivery fee for the parts that I would not have paid if they had allowed me to fit after market parts from my suppliers .

bertsmobile1 said:

How you recover monies will depend upon your individual state laws, but unless you are a registered business that can be a double edged sword as down here the taxman reviews all of the small claims cases looking for undeclaired income from cash businesses.

And just a note, when I have to buy OEM parts, I add $ 15 "courier" fee to the bill explaining that not being an XYZ agent I have to pay a delivery fee for the parts that I would not have paid if they had allowed me to fit after market parts from my suppliers .

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I wish I could have decent business relationship with the local shops but to be honest nearly all of them are a holes. I even get several their half done jobs in my shop every year where whoever their techs are they are terrible. Must be just part replacers.

Personally I don't like those DYIers cash businesses in the first place. Before I even open any of my businesses I had all the necessary licenses in hand including the sales tax licenses. Yes new customers thinks I am one those DYIer cash businesses and don't want to pay the sales tax on the invoices just because I work out a two car garage. I even had few to turn me in the local tax offices. But when the enforcement office looks up my businesses they find that I up to date on my payments; although, one enforcement guy tried tricking me by bringing in push mower for repairs. When I had it ready and handed him the bill, he pull his badge on me. He wanted to see my records so pointed him the file cabinet and said have at it and I said "Oh by the way the business license is on the wall by the door".

Boy the tax man can be hateful if they think they can get you over a barrel.

As far charging shipping and handling, I only charge them on rush, off season, or special orders. My normal markups take care of most shipping charges, besides like the order I just received had free shipping or the OEM order I placed this morning was large enough to qualify for free shipping. That Generac carburetor repair kit I just got was only $2 thru Amazon more than my distributor price. My distributor wanted another $10 to ship it too. Sometimes it pays to shop around a little. It also probably why I currently have over $26,000 in parts on hand as I order extra of the common items. That is actually down from $35,000 last year as I switch to a distributor that delivers in 2 days.

Who is your distributor if i may ask? Lately i have been getting faster delivery from parts off ebay vs the distributor i deal with. I am a low volume customer so i think i get "whenever" shipping. I have a business license and a tax exempt ID if they require one.
Thanks

Currently I am using Gardner (1 day if shipped out of my assigned warehouse), Power Distributors (2 days), A&I (2 days), and RBI (2 days). Now I do use Amazon, Partstree, Repair Clinic, Partzilla, among others that are further out shipping times. Even Amazon is most times only 2 days out. For might seem strange but most of the current vendors are only a few days out.

And yes all require your sales tax exemption certificate and some even a copy of your business license.

Now take these with a grain of salt if an item gets back ordered.

Here is an example of what I have spent recently . Now ignore Spectrum and Mapco as one is internet service and the other is the fuel depot. There are other vendors that I did include in the snap shot.


Now I just place my first order with A&I and it is still too early for an order with Gardner as I have inventory on hand for most of the early season repairs. Plus I just started with RBI.

I delivered one to a woman today, who lived in a fancy house. Called her on my way, she said she was there and had the money. When I got there, for some reason, I decided not to unload it until I got the money. I normally just unload and then knock on the door, if they don't hear me pull up. But this time, I knocked first. I seen her in the house, but she wouldn't answer the door. I knocked like 5 times in 10 minutes. Finally went back to the truck and called her. About that time, she answered the door.

THE first words out of her mouth was, "You're not going to unload it til you get the money?" Not sure why that was the first thing she said, instead of something like "I was putting up the clothes, groceries, was in the john, or something along those lines. But it made me pretty proud of myself that I didn't unload it first.

One of those "gut feeling" things, I guess.

Nothing comes off the trailer till I know they have the money, cash cheque or direct deposit .
I go through the bill with them , explain it then ask do you want to try it out now or where would you like me to leave it ?
Then you can say will grab the mower while you get the payment.
All nice & friendly .

I always bring my very large friend named Guido with the new york accent. I let him collect payment while i unload the mower. He must be into baseball because he always has a bat with him.

You do learn to trust your instincts, and I firm believe listening to them. It has kept me out a lot trouble over the years plus just it help me out on repairs.

Oh when I first got out school I was very green behind the ears and I fell for a lot things. Dealing the US Army and Marines I learn a lot words I never heard before for example. Boy our schools doesn't prepare for real life either as I didn't even know how to get around in multi floor buildings. When I think back what an embarrassment I must have been to my boss. Back then the worst customers were doctors and lawyers, next in line were the churches. They would get charge accounts and then not want to pay until you start not returning or refusing to repair their equipment until their accounts were up to date. Those clients that me lessons that after I went into business myself fall back on today.

PT, I had one those customers last year that I nearly drove off before she came to door. Then she accused me of terrible customer service as I had charged her a pickup and delivery for replacing a bad battery that her father said was good. I later found out that they do this all the time. Strange she is real estate agent. Well as I said I had a customer, Her and her father are barred from service now from my business. I reconken having a handful of barred customers is not too bad considering I have 315 registered good customers. I know there businesses with 1000s of customers but I happy with the few good customer I have.

Bert, That is the way I getting now on not unloading until paid especially new clients. Normally I don't do pickups or deliveries. I have always give a fairly detail bill parts used wise, the labor not so much. The customer doesn't need to know how to do the work though some think they should. I got rid of one recently that he would do was to come in for estimates. I kinda pissed that one day he came in while I was gone to local DG for a bottle alcohol he had left a board full of nails in my yard. I didn't see it as I rounded a shrub and had gotten several flat tires on another customer's mower. I still ran the basic diagnostics and he had a worn out engine. He said thank you and drove off without paying any part of the estimate fee.

Oh Hammer you are so mean. I don't blame you though. We work hard most times on those repairs, and under charge for our time because it cheap equipment.

My dad was in the fence business several years ago, and did a $15,000 fence for a big church. After it was completed and he went to get the money, the preacher had the check almost made out, except for the amount. He knew how much the amount was, but when he still asked my dad, "How much of this do you want to give to the lord," as in, thinking my dad would fall for the sympathy preachers commonly use. Dad smiled and said "Well, the lord was gracious enough to help me get this fence job, I'd better be gracious right back and keep the whole amount."

He said the look on the preachers face was priceless. Someone had come up with a better line than him.

The fence business can be tough. You can never get the full amount up front. So there's always money owed at after completion. He's been to court several times. Once we went back to a place we'd built a fence like 2 months prior with a bobcat and two trailers. 5ft chainlink. 250+ft long. While two guys undid the chainlink, I and a helper was pulling the posts with the bobcat. Took us two days to put the fence up. And about 20 minutes to take it all down, load it on the trailer and haul arse. All because the guy wouldn't pay. Of course the guy tried to sue my dad over it. But it didn't work out for him. But ONLY because the man didn't have a fence prior to the one we put up.

Yes one of the real nice things about working for yourself is you don't have to keep morons on the books.
And I have no problems telling people that I will no longer service their equipment and the reason why .
There was one person who tried a religious persecution claim till he found out that my grandfather was of the same religion & I had several people of the same faith still on my books.
But it was a fun day in court and that cost him a lot of money.

Guido is cheaper and faster than a laywer.?

I think if I was in a service business I put a decent sized chart on the wall with the names of deadbeat customers, date, and amount owed. Might get word around and some apologies, visits, and payments might follow.

It can work but the are liable issues involved so those do this hopefully have records to back up things. Lawsuits can be filed just to a pain sometimes but once rules that usually takes care the problem. When it is the customer that is bad mouthing the business; sometimes, all it take is a certified crease and desist letter from your attorney that they must sign for.

Most times it not worth the trouble on smaller amounts especially if the biggest part of the bill is labor. We do however have a legal recourse available to most people and that is the small claims court system, just need everything well documented.

As for me I just flag their accounts here as "STOPPED" which means no further services rendered. Kinda strange though as I had one not to pay for 1-1/2 yrs then he needed some more work done. He paid up his account plus the monthly interest charges but he did end up paying before I release his mower this time. Still set at "CONCERNED" which means I take in his repair work but won't release the equipment until paid.

tom3 said:

I think if I was in a service business I put a decent sized chart on the wall with the names of deadbeat customers, date, and amount owed. Might get word around and some apologies, visits, and payments might follow.

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I would never do something like that. I never bad mouth a customer to another customer either. Customers should not be aware of any negative issues with another customer.

Publicly naming deadbeats is not a good idea, as it will get you in trouble very quickly. Called defamation of character and you will be opening yourself up to legal problems, even if you have a valid reason. They can do it to your business, but you can’t do it to them. Best is to note in your system and refuse unless payment is taken in advanced.

Both the local petrol station have a "wall of shame "
on which they put the photos from the driveway cameras of all of the people who drive off without paying.
The owners have been sued hundreds of times for deformation but have won every case .
Apparently because they put the amount owed and removes every photo when the fuel is payed for it is not considered slander, just a reminder that they forgot to pay .

What he is always blown away by is the number of times he gets a solicitors letter demanding the photo be removed but not offering to pay the outstanding amount.
This is almost universally followed by summons for an astronomical amount .
And a couple have been appealed to the District court in which case it costs the plaintifs thousands .

Rivets said:

Publicly naming deadbeats is not a good idea, as it will get you in trouble very quickly. Called defamation of character and you will be opening yourself up to legal problems, even if you have a valid reason. They can do it to your business, but you can’t do it to them. Best is to note in your system and refuse unless payment is taken in advanced.

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Defamation suits aren't nearly impossible to win in a case like this.

Rivets said:

Publicly naming deadbeats is not a good idea, as it will get you in trouble very quickly. Called defamation of character and you will be opening yourself up to legal problems, even if you have a valid reason. They can do it to your business, but you can’t do it to them. Best is to note in your system and refuse unless payment is taken in advanced.

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Exactly what I do here. Yes it is a lost up front but in the long run things works out. All I ask of these customers is to at least try to pay something, explaining to them that they wouldn't want me to do it to them.