Need Advice on New Mower for Business

[Ric]

I know this is an old thread but I thought i would give you guys an update. In all these posts I set my sites too high on mowers that are too expensive and would most likely cause me to take home less money. I decided to go with the Toro Turfmaster the commercial 30" push mower. I have two cause my brother works with me. I wanted and still do either the Scag SWZT, Snapper Pro walk behind, or the Scag V-Ride. After considering my financial situation the fact that I am not making too much money I needed to go with something less expensive. After only owning Home Owner Toro push mowers mainly the Toro SR4 it is amazing to me how great the cut is from the turfmaster and how well it mulches. It probably mulches the grass into pieces 4x times smaller at least. I will post some pictures when I get the chance.
I also wanted to thank all of you guys for all your help I have learned so much thanks to you I feel like I have enough knowledge to buy a bigger commercial mower when the time comes.

I can't see how setting your sites to high on mowers that are too expensive would most likely cause you to take home less money. You already seen the difference in productivity between the Toro SR4 and the Turf-Master and the gains you've made with the Turf-Master mowers and with a good Stander or ZTR you can triple that productivity and the money your making now.

 

[Conn0r33]

I can't see how setting your sites to high on mowers that are too expensive would most likely cause you to take home less money. You already seen the difference in productivity between the Toro SR4 and the Turf-Master and the gains you've made with the Turf-Master mowers and with a good Stander or ZTR you can triple that productivity and the money your making now.

Ric, I can't spend $8,000 on a mower right now. I would love to own a scag v-ride or a big commercial walk behind, but if I bought one I wouldn't be making much money. Right now where I currently am in my business it does not matter too much if I make $20 an hour and work four hours or if I make $80 an hour and work one hour either way I'm making $80. Sure, I would like to work less but I can show you how I can't afford one right now. If I bought a scag v-ride for $8,000 I would need a trailer +1,200 and a storage unit + $600/year I would still need a push mower small areas + $1,200 not to mention all the other expenses. With having to split the money with my brother we would probably make $1,800 each. Not a very rewarding year. Sure you can finance the mowers but I don't know how much longer I will be in this business.

 

[Conn0r33]

I can't see how setting your sites to high on mowers that are too expensive would most likely cause you to take home less money. You already seen the difference in productivity between the Toro SR4 and the Turf-Master and the gains you've made with the Turf-Master mowers and with a good Stander or ZTR you can triple that productivity and the money your making now.

You always speak as if raising my productivity will raise the money I am making per year. If I charge $30 an hour and I work 10 hours a week (not my actual rate) and I raise my productivity by 50% so I am now making $60 an hour I will be working 5 hours a week not 10. You always say I will triple my productivity and the money I am making when I really am not. $30/hour at 10 hours/week = $300 or $60/hour at 5 hours/week = $300 - the $8,000 expense of the new mower.

 

[Carscw]

You always speak as if raising my productivity will raise the money I am making per year. If I charge $30 an hour and I work 10 hours a week (not my actual rate) and I raise my productivity by 50% so I am now making $60 an hour I will be working 5 hours a week not 10. You always say I will triple my productivity and the money I am making when I really am not. $30/hour at 10 hours/week = $300 or $60/hour at 5 hours/week = $300 - the $8,000 expense of the new mower.

I agree. Why spend $8000 on a mower when a $3000 mower will do the same job.
Ric is all about how fast he can cut a yard.
He feels the only way to make money is to always owe money on big mowers you do not need.
I will guess my operating cost are around half as his. And I cut more then twice the yards he cuts. And charge twice as much per yard.

Man just get what you can afford and what works for you. It's about making money.

 

[Ric]

You always speak as if raising my productivity will raise the money I am making per year. If I charge $30 an hour and I work 10 hours a week (not my actual rate) and I raise my productivity by 50% so I am now making $60 an hour I will be working 5 hours a week not 10. You always say I will triple my productivity and the money I am making when I really am not. $30/hour at 10 hours/week = $300 or $60/hour at 5 hours/week = $300 - the $8,000 expense of the new mower.

You raise your productivity rate by adding to the number of clients you do daily. Instead of doing 10 clients in ten hrs you can do 20, maybe more in ten hrs with a ZTR. Not by cutting your hours.
If your doing five lawns with your Turf-master a day you should be able to do ten lawns in half that time period or less with a ztr, which will allow you to add to the number of cuts or clients you do a day. Thus the mower pays for itself and you end up putting more money in your pocket at the end of the day, and not only that but you physically don't work half as hard riding a mower than you will pushing that Turf-Master.

You talk about your plan to have or be able to do 25 lawns a week?? I can and do that in an 8 hr day with a 48" Toro ZM ztr. Personally I was only working 3 to 4 hrs a day and doing 12 to 15 lawns in half day or less. The thing is you can do 25 lawns a week with your Turf-Master, that's 5 lawns a day but your not making any money especially when your splitting it with your brother.

 

[Ric]

Ric, I can't spend $8,000 on a mower right now. I would love to own a scag v-ride or a big commercial walk behind, but if I bought one I wouldn't be making much money. Right now where I currently am in my business it does not matter too much if I make $20 an hour and work four hours or if I make $80 an hour and work one hour either way I'm making $80. Sure, I would like to work less but I can show you how I can't afford one right now. If I bought a scag v-ride for $8,000 I would need a trailer +1,200 and a storage unit + $600/year I would still need a push mower small areas + $1,200 not to mention all the other expenses. With having to split the money with my brother we would probably make $1,800 each. Not a very rewarding year. Sure you can finance the mowers but I don't know how much longer I will be in this business.

Your figuring wages is total wrong to my thinking. The way you charge by the hour for lawn-care is way wrong to my thinking. Number one you can't charge buy the hour for lawn-care. The going rate for lawn-care is $1 per minute/$60 an hour minimum. That's what new businesses shoot to make when they start.
You need to set a price per cut for what you consider a normal size lawn and adjust that price depending on the size of the lawn and what the client wants done. When I went out I was making no less than $60 an hrs and most times $80 and up an hr and that was pretty cheap priced lawn-care. I also agree with you It's not a very rewarding year for you and you probably wont be in business long they way your doing things.

 

[Conn0r33]

You raise your productivity rate by adding to the number of clients you do daily. Instead of doing 10 clients in ten hrs you can do 20, maybe more in ten hrs with a ZTR. Not by cutting your hours.
If you're doing five lawns with your Turf-master a day you should be able to do ten lawns in half that time period or less with a ztr, which will allow you to add to the number of cuts or clients you do a day. Thus, the mower pays for itself and you end up putting more money in your pocket at the end of the day, and not only that but you physically don't work half as hard riding a mower than you will pushing that Turf-Master.

You talk about your plan to have or be able to do 25 lawns a week?? I can and do that in an 8 hr day with a 48" Toro ZM ztr. Personally, I was only working 3 to 4 hrs a day and doing 12 to 15 lawns in half day or less. The thing is you can do 25 lawns a week with your Turf-Master, that's 5 lawns a day but you're not making any money especially when you're splitting it with your brother.

That is how we think differently. Why buy a big mower and add more debt to get done what I can handle just fine right now? I would buy a big mower and try to get done even faster if I had people calling me for mowing all the time but I am not growing THAT fast. My thinking is if I somehow get tons of calls and line up tons of work that I couldn't handle with a Turfmaster THEN and ONLY THEN would I buy a bigger mower. It is not smart at all in my opinion to buy a big mower when I'm only doing 15-19 lawns a week. I will wait until I NEED a big mower. I would rather keep as much money for myself right now so I have money for college and life etc.
Last year when I was mowing with two Toro SR4 mowers my brother and I made almost $7,000 each. This year I will probably bring in $19,000 this year but with the bigger mowers and other expenses, I will make about the same amount of money probably around $6,000. If I didn't buy the Turfmasters I would make much closer to $9,500 than I do now. I made the upgrade because I got tired of residential stuff breaking all the time.
With your super nice truck and all the equipment you recommend buying it makes me think you are probably in a bit of debt. Something I would like to avoid.

 

[Conn0r33]

Your figuring wages is total wrong to my thinking. The way you charge by the hour for lawn-care is way wrong to my thinking. Number one you can't charge buy the hour for lawn-care. The going rate for lawn-care is $1 per minute/$60 an hour minimum. That's what new businesses shoot to make when they start.
You need to set a price per cut for what you consider a normal size lawn and adjust that price depending on the size of the lawn and what the client wants done. When I went out I was making no less than $60 an hrs and most times $80 and up an hr and that was pretty cheap priced lawn-care. I also agree with you It's not a very rewarding year for you and you probably wont be in business long they way your doing things.

I don't exactly charge by the hour. I do it like pretty much everyone in the lawn industry does. I provide a quote and its a fixed price but its BASED on an hourly rate. So if my hourly rate is $80/hour and I think the lawn will take me half an hour it would be a FIXED not an hourly price of $40. You can't tell me your rates aren't somehow based off of an hourly rate.
When you say $60/hour is that an hour or per man hour?
And by the way I will be in business for as long as I want. I'm making a good enough amount. But you are right I wouldn't be in business very long if I were doing things the way you say I should be doing them. I'm going to make plenty of money this year. If i bought a bigger mower like you recommend I wouldn't be in business long. Just curious because you are mister $80 an hour. How much would you charge for a lawn that is 7,250 sq. ft. that measurement is only grass no sidewalks or anything. I'm charging $40. How does that compare to your price?

 

[Conn0r33]

As stated in a previous post I am interested in hearing what you charge for a 7,000 sq. foot lawn.
Ric, honestly I would take your advice about getting bigger better mowers if I was going to hire someone to do the work. I would also agree with you if I was trying to build a big company and had a plan and everything and just wanted the equipment so I am ready for growth. But right now at this stage I am trying to get as much money out of the business as I can. What if I graduate college and decide that I don't want to do this anymore. Or maybe in two years I might quit or I might continue on for a long time. The problem is I don't know so I would prefer to just make money not spend it.

 

[Ric]

As stated in a previous post I am interested in hearing what you charge for a 7,000 sq. foot lawn.
Ric, honestly I would take your advice about getting bigger better mowers if I was going to hire someone to do the work. I would also agree with you if I was trying to build a big company and had a plan and everything and just wanted the equipment so I am ready for growth. But right now at this stage I am trying to get as much money out of the business as I can. What if I graduate college and decide that I don't want to do this anymore. Or maybe in two years I might quit or I might continue on for a long time. The problem is I don't know so I would prefer to just make money not spend it.

To tell you how much I would charge to mow a 7000sq ft lawn is hard to say because I don't charge by the sq. ft. There are to many variables involved in giving you a price, things like the location of the lot and where I'd have to work it into the schedule or on my route. It would also depend on who owns the lot, if there already a client a previous client or a new client?etc. etc.
What you can get in Nebraska or would charge should be what your area can stand, what I get here in my location could run a lot more or less than what you'll be getting, depends on what part of Florida your in.
The thing about spending the money on good commercial equipment is that you'll get a better resale than the mowers you buy from home depot or lowes. When I purchased the 36" GS I paid $6795 otd right now your looking at 9K otd for the same mower, so right now if I sold the thing for 5K I've got my money back, same with the ZTR. That's why I say buy the good stuff, it's a win win. Yeah I financed the ZTR, 48 month no interest but in 15 months of use it's paid for because it paid for itself and put money in my pocket besides. We can discuss the point from now until when ever, everybody has there own way just do what you want, I'm not arguing the point ant further.