Export thread

I recently bought a troy built pony riding lawn mower used. It is pretty old but well kept up.The guy I bought it from changed two belts just before I bought it from him.when I put it in granny low it drives fine. When I put it in 2nd threw the highest gear It's speed is always the same. Which I think it is stuck in top gear. I can not get it to shift into 2nd 3rd 4th an so on. I mean it shifts into those gears but they all go the same speed."fast" why am I not able to go any other speed when I shift into these other gears.

Need the model number from the serial number (probably under the seat) to lookup your unit.

But it probably has the CVT system with a single speed transaxle.

That mower has a variable ratio pulley, not gears as such .
If it does not shift to higher speeds then the variable pulley needs to be looked at.
Take off both drive belts and check that the sliding member on the double pulley at the back can slide up and down freely with no notchiness.
If not then the pulley needs a bit of lube to free it up.
If still no joy then it needs replacing ( not cheap ).
It is a simple system.
The spring on the top ( rear pulley ) is stronger than the spring on the lower ( front belt )
So when you don't have your foot on the pedal it forces the sliding member down making the top 1/2 ( driven side ) of the double pulley a small and the bottom 1/2 ( drive ) large .
When you put your foot on the go pedal, you apply more force than the top belt spring , so the lower belt side gets smaller & the upper gets larger .
The "gear" lever limits how far the GO pedal can tighten the lower belt which has the effect of giving you 4,5,6 or 7 different ratios ( depending upon the model ) of top pulley to bottom pulley so different speeds .
IT is essentially the same as a bench drill with a pair of stepped pulleys .

Problems come when people go cheap & fit standard belts as the vari drive belts have a different shape to a normal A section belt ( 5 L is the closest to OEM shape ) and this can prevent the sliding member from sliding.
After that is things like the spring on the rear ( top ) pulley being fittted in the wrong hole in the chassis
Then there is the lower belt being routed wrong so it can not pull the lower belt tight enough to force the sliding member up.

Start with the easy things first .
Get your hands on an owners manual and read the proceedure for freeing a stuck drive.
On some it is on a decal under the dash

StarTech said:

Need the model number from the serial number (probably under the seat) to lookup your unit.

But it probably has the CVT system with a single speed transaxle.

Click to expand...

The model # is 13WN77KS011, serial # is 1C192B40001

bertsmobile1 said:

That mower has a variable ratio pulley, not gears as such .
If it does not shift to higher speeds then the variable pulley needs to be looked at.
Take off both drive belts and check that the sliding member on the double pulley at the back can slide up and down freely with no notchiness.
If not then the pulley needs a bit of lube to free it up.
If still no joy then it needs replacing ( not cheap ).
It is a simple system.
The spring on the top ( rear pulley ) is stronger than the spring on the lower ( front belt )
So when you don't have your foot on the pedal it forces the sliding member down making the top 1/2 ( driven side ) of the double pulley a small and the bottom 1/2 ( drive ) large .
When you put your foot on the go pedal, you apply more force than the top belt spring , so the lower belt side gets smaller & the upper gets larger .
The "gear" lever limits how far the GO pedal can tighten the lower belt which has the effect of giving you 4,5,6 or 7 different ratios ( depending upon the model ) of top pulley to bottom pulley so different speeds .
IT is essentially the same as a bench drill with a pair of stepped pulleys .

Problems come when people go cheap & fit standard belts as the vari drive belts have a different shape to a normal A section belt ( 5 L is the closest to OEM shape ) and this can prevent the sliding member from sliding.
After that is things like the spring on the rear ( top ) pulley being fittted in the wrong hole in the chassis
Then there is the lower belt being routed wrong so it can not pull the lower belt tight enough to force the sliding member up.

Start with the easy things first .
Get your hands on an owners manual and read the proceedure for freeing a stuck drive.
On some it is on a decal under the dash

Click to expand...

It does shift gears. But 2nd threw the last gear all goes the same speed" really fast". Only granny slow "1st gear " is the only other gear that works.

It is a CVT drive. Most likely the previous owner installed after market belts.

Mr.Quebedeaux said:

It does shift gears. But 2nd threw the last gear all goes the same speed" really fast". Only granny slow "1st gear " is the only other gear that works.

Click to expand...

Now it only has high gear even though I change gears the speed stays the same

Mr.Quebedeaux said:

I recently bought a troy built pony riding lawn mower used. It is pretty old but well kept up.The guy I bought it from changed two belts just before I bought it from him.when I put it in granny low it drives fine. When I put it in 2nd threw the highest gear It's speed is always the same. Which I think it is stuck in top gear. I can not get it to shift into 2nd 3rd 4th an so on. I mean it shifts into those gears but they all go the same speed."fast" why am I not able to go any other speed when I shift into these other gears.

Click to expand...

Now it only has high gear even though I change gears the speed stays the same.

Seeing that this unit has a CVT drive system, I’m will to bet that the variable shive is stuck. This will mean removing both drive belts and free up the shive.

Mr.Quebedeaux said:

Now it only has high gear even though I change gears the speed stays the same

Click to expand...

you have to get the GEAR thing out of your head if you want to get this fixed you have no gears just fixed ratios of pulley circumferences which is why I use the stepped pulley drive on a bench drill to illustrate as most blokes are familiar with them..
From what you have now said it seems like the variable speed pulley is sticking .
Without the actual model & serial numbers off the tag under the seat, we can not be 100% specific and the only parts breakdown I have on this computer is for the larger Horse model but the drive system is the same to the point that most parts interchange.
Your problem will be with the double belt pulley part # 47 .
Because of the way it is used it we call it a shive and in particular a sliding shive .
Because all 3 flanges always spin at the same speed, if you alter the circumference of the two pulleys the belt speed in feet per minute changes which changes the speed that the axle pulley rotates in rpm .
THis is what determines your ground speed .
The tension on the lower belt is controlled by the two pulleys # 35 on the bracket # 36 which rotates counter clockwise to increase the belt tension .
The tighter the lower belt is the faster the mower goes.
Your GEAR lever simply limits how far the bracket # 36 can rotate in the counter clockwise direction.
However if the sliding flange on the double pulley # 47 can not slide freely top to bottom then the effective circumferences of the upper & lower sections can not change so your ground speed can not change .

It is a simple system very robust and works very well requiring very little maintenance other than a shot of spray grease on the moving bits every year or so & belt changes.

bertsmobile1 said:

you have to get the GEAR thing out of your head if you want to get this fixed you have no gears just fixed ratios of pulley circumferences which is why I use the stepped pulley drive on a bench drill to illustrate as most blokes are familiar with them..
From what you have now said it seems like the variable speed pulley is sticking .
Without the actual model & serial numbers off the tag under the seat, we can not be 100% specific and the only parts breakdown I have on this computer is for the larger Horse model but the drive system is the same to the point that most parts interchange.
Your problem will be with the double belt pulley part # 47 .
Because of the way it is used it we call it a shive and in particular a sliding shive .
Because all 3 flanges always spin at the same speed, if you alter the circumference of the two pulleys the belt speed in feet per minute changes which changes the speed that the axle pulley rotates in rpm .
THis is what determines your ground speed .
The tension on the lower belt is controlled by the two pulleys # 35 on the bracket # 36 which rotates counter clockwise to increase the belt tension .
The tighter the lower belt is the faster the mower goes.
Your GEAR lever simply limits how far the bracket # 36 can rotate in the counter clockwise direction.
However if the sliding flange on the double pulley # 47 can not slide freely top to bottom then the effective circumferences of the upper & lower sections can not change so your ground speed can not change .

It is a simple system very robust and works very well requiring very little maintenance other than a shot of spray grease on the moving bits every year or so & belt changes.

View attachment 51071

Click to expand...

The model # is 13WN77KS011, serial # is 1C192B40001

The model # is 13WN77KS011, serial # is 1C192B40001

Thank you.
Before this gets very confusing please have a look under the mower.
There are 2 variations on the drive system
One is as per the diagram already posted,
The other does not have the 2 small pulleys on the lower drive belt.
They both work the same way, they just use a different mechanism to change the tension of the lower drive belt.

Bert that actually why we ask for the model number so we can look-up the mower's actual IPL. If you bother to do that you would know how it is setup. Sorry to be blunt but you should look-up the mower IPL before guessing.

It a straight belt path for the engine to variable. Belt size is 5L x 70.90" The variable to transaxle size is 5L x 35.25" Either one these being the wrong size will cause problems. Also you can not use belts from an auto parts store as will not have the proper profile but they will still you what you ask for, they don't care.

The bracket assy that holds the variable pulley stack can wear and bind. Also can bind from rust.

The variable on this is the one the clutch pulls forward to slow the speed with a heavy pulling rearward. One other systems you are think is the one where the variable is mounted fix position on the transaxle and the other is fixed mounted to the frame. The one with the moveable variable is the troublesome one of the three systems.

I stand in the Dunces corner.
The vari drive with a pivoting variator is totally new to me .But I now know it is troublesome .
From the pars books looks like it was introduced around 2011 becaus there are 2 from that year, one with the old system & one with the new system.
We do not get all of the USA models down here, in fact I have not seen a new Troy-Bilt branded ride on since MTD took them over.
However MTD also took over the local Rover brand but again never seen one in the shop.
And as usual the MTD australia site tells me to contact a dealer if I try to get any information.
I think all of the mower IT geeks down here were once ASIO spies .

Yes the wear just any pivot mount like idler arms. And I do understand the different parts of the world has different operations. I just had to find a ipl for Poulan PL3314 chainsaw that all the US site were converting to a P3314 which was the wrong saw. Using my resources I had to first find the PL3314 info which had a Husqvarna model number. Using that model number I found the IPL on a Czech Republic website. If looking info a Rover I ask for help on ODK website that I am a member of where I provide help Briggs engines in exchange for the help if I ever need it.

Once one of the hardiest IPLs and service manuals for me to get copies of were the Stihl ones. I have since develop a pretty good resources for them. Having the parts drives the local Stihl dealer crazy as they want to know where I am getting my info. All I tell them is that "If I tell you then I have to kill you.". With Stihl being as aggressive as they are about websites having these available for downloads I have to keep them stored privately in an encrypted format.

As with any info knowing how to search for it is the key and I have gotten fairly good in the last ten years.

Getting off topic, I am well aware of these things.
When I started I was already a compitent mechanic so engines were no problem.
Chassis were another thing all together.
Back then it was a ration of about 4:1 research hours to work hours.
Seven years latter is is about 2 :1
Shame I can not bill for them.
Stihl have done themselves a big diservice from my point of view as they forced me to find alternative sources so now 99% of stihl parts I fit come direct from China, the Phillapines, Hong Kong or Japan .
So that is better than a grand the local Stihl warehouse / dealers of my money they do not see.
Further complicated that in order to reduce Stihls logistical costs they have put minimum order values on their dealers so if I need to buy a part I have t ring a dozen different shops to see who is about t put an order in that week.

Yes are getting off topic. Hope Mr.Quebedeaux will chime in soon as to where he stands on this now.

I will assume you guys know about HL Supply for aftermarket chainsaw parts. None of my customers are loggers, just weekend wood cutters. Nobody has complained about affordable aftermarket parts. I have also built 2 of the Hutzl china clone saws. A 361 and a 660. Both of which are modified. Have cut a lot of wood with both and still going fine. If you look hard enough you can find a hacked copy of the 2012 mediacat file for all stihl products. IPLs and service doc.
I am waiting for someone to hack the new software controlled saws like the JD stuff from eastern europe.

bertsmobile1 said:

you have to get the GEAR thing out of your head if you want to get this fixed you have no gears just fixed ratios of pulley circumferences which is why I use the stepped pulley drive on a bench drill to illustrate as most blokes are familiar with them..
From what you have now said it seems like the variable speed pulley is sticking .
Without the actual model & serial numbers off the tag under the seat, we can not be 100% specific and the only parts breakdown I have on this computer is for the larger Horse model but the drive system is the same to the point that most parts interchange.
Your problem will be with the double belt pulley part # 47 .
Because of the way it is used it we call it a shive and in particular a sliding shive .
Because all 3 flanges always spin at the same speed, if you alter the circumference of the two pulleys the belt speed in feet per minute changes which changes the speed that the axle pulley rotates in rpm .
THis is what determines your ground speed .
The tension on the lower belt is controlled by the two pulleys # 35 on the bracket # 36 which rotates counter clockwise to increase the belt tension .
The tighter the lower belt is the faster the mower goes.
Your GEAR lever simply limits how far the bracket # 36 can rotate in the counter clockwise direction.
However if the sliding flange on the double pulley # 47 can not slide freely top to bottom then the effective circumferences of the upper & lower sections can not change so your ground speed can not change .

It is a simple system very robust and works very well requiring very little maintenance other than a shot of spray grease on the moving bits every year or so & belt changes.

View attachment 51071

Click to expand...

I changed the upper and lower transmission belts because I noticed a good bit of slack in the upper one. The little thing that slides up and down on the pulley moved freely. It is not stuck.the lawn mower slowed down a good bit. But I still only have one gear.only one speed even though I switch gears. I stay the same speed. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Mr.Quebedeaux said:

I recently bought a troy built pony riding lawn mower used. It is pretty old but well kept up.The guy I bought it from changed two belts just before I bought it from him.when I put it in granny low it drives fine. When I put it in 2nd threw the highest gear It's speed is always the same. Which I think it is stuck in top gear. I can not get it to shift into 2nd 3rd 4th an so on. I mean it shifts into those gears but they all go the same speed."fast" why am I not able to go any other speed when I shift into these other gears.

Click to expand...

I changed the upper and lower transmission belts because I noticed a good bit of slack in the upper one. The little thing that slides up and down on the pulley moved freely. It is not stuck.the lawn mower slowed down a good bit. But I still only have one gear.only one speed even though I switch gears. I stay the same speed. Any information would be greatly appreciated

bertsmobile1 said:

Thank you.
Before this gets very confusing please have a look under the mower.
There are 2 variations on the drive system
One is as per the diagram already posted,
The other does not have the 2 small pulleys on the lower drive belt.
They both work the same way, they just use a different mechanism to change the tension of the lower drive belt.

Click to expand...

This deck has a total of four pillows on the deck itself.i changed both transmission belts and the middle part on the pulley underneath the seat moved freely without being stuck. But I still only have one gear. I have the same speed even though i change gears. I'm very sorry if i aggravate you. But I am not mechanically inclined. So I may say things in a different way. Again I'm sorry if I'm a bit slow when it comes to understanding what you are explaining to me.

There should never be any slack on the smaller belt. (variable to transaxle) If there is slack it might be the tensioner pulley arm spring is missing. Now the longer (engine to variable) is to loose when the clutch pedal is depressed fully.

Mr.Quebedeaux said:

This deck has a total of four pillows on the deck itself.i changed both transmission belts and the middle part on the pulley underneath the seat moved freely without being stuck. But I still only have one gear. I have the same speed even though i change gears. I'm very sorry if i aggravate you. But I am not mechanically inclined. So I may say things in a different way. Again I'm sorry if I'm a bit slow when it comes to understanding what you are explaining to me.

Click to expand...

Nobody with a genuine problem aggravates us, we are here to help and to learn ( well I am in any case ) and helping you helps me.
However I am confused by your answer what we need to be sure of is the lower belt , the one that goes from the engine to the double pulley under the seat.
Is it like the one in the drawing in reply # 10 or does it just go direct from the engine to the double pulley under the seat with nothing in between ?
We need to know ( well I do at least ) because the Troy-Bilt web site shows both systems when I search with your model & serial number .
Giving you the correct information is less confusing for you & any one else who might end up reading this .
There is no time pressure for us, it is your mower so at your own merry pace is fine with every one ,
No one here charges by the hour for advice

Well since no one has actually look-up this 2012 mower here is the ground drive IPL image.

Now item 52 attaches to 48 and to the rear frame. Usually the left corner area.
Item 24 connects to 48 and the right hand side frame.

I have fixed the problem thank you all so very much

Well done & thanks for the final post.
So for future refference & to hep others who search the archives looking for answers what was the fnal fix ?

bertsmobile1 said:

Well done & thanks for the final post.
So for future refference & to hep others who search the archives looking for answers what was the fnal fix ?

Click to expand...

It was too small of a belt on the bottom of the two drive belts. And that's why it was going so fast.. but now I have another problem I'm dealing with. If you have any knowledge about the motor I would love to give you the run down and see what you think. If It's not to much trouble for you. I'd greatly appreciate it...

It was too small of a belt on the bottom of the two drive belts. And that's why it was going so fast

Thank you .
It is always prudent to check the belt lengths before fitting.
We have all been caught out like this one time or another and MTD have a dozen or more sizes that are very close so "Kits" often have a wrong size belt.
Gates have a web site hat lists the lengths of just about every USA mower belt by manufacturers part number . Saved my bacon many times .

I finally had to buy a v-belt measuring tool because of the belt problems I was having and the vendor keep saying I was measuring the belt wrong; therefore they couldn't be short. Well the aftermarkets I was getting were short and causing a lot problems. That supplier finally merge with another company and I was promised that belt length issues I was having was resolved. Guess what it isn't resolved as my very belt order the belt came in one inch shorter than the specs. Those dang Indians (India) must have a broken tape measure and refuse to get a new one.

Now Stens says the tool is no good but they are selling the same tool for the purpose of measuring the belt.

BTW even Gates will send out belts that are the wrong size even through the packaging say it is a certain size. I one belt here that was supposedly 1/2 x 88 when in fact it is 1/2 x 86. Try getting that belt on.

Anyway currently I am only installing OEM belt due to all the problems I had with belt the last ten years. Costs more but at least I not wasting my time fighting to get the belts replaced.

Europeans measure belts on the effective diameter which is the inside .
Americans measure on the outside .
Thus a USA A 88 is an A 86 just about everywhere else in the world apart from the greater contenental America .
B size is +/- 3" so that probably explains your funny belt sizes/.
Gates supply belts wholesale in ties generally in, 10, 25, 50 or 100 lots and the distributor puts the label & size on the belt , including the sleeve .
I know this much form a previous job with an engineering supply company, we used to get pallets of belts then label them with about a dozen different brands , different sleeves then send them off to the wholesalers.
IT is of curse a PIA for me as the Stens catalogue is in USA sizing & the GA catalogue is in Aust sizing & the Jackmax catalogue was metric.
That said I am yet to find the Gates catalogue wrong where as the supposed OEM sizes are oft rounded up or down to the nearest 1/2".
Then there is the stupidity of making a 196.25" belt as if 1/4" will make any difference on a deck that has near 6" of travel on the tensioning idler and the tension spring is on an adjustable anchor point.
This is what happens when the calculator generation gets control of design so you find an app dial in your numbers then accept what ever size that it spits out.
Stupid . Causes dealers to keep a bigger inventory and the same at the factory and makes the belts a lot more expensive which is really baffeling when we see the horrid things they do to save costs.
Prime point Toro make both Exmark & Z Master in 48" decks ,
Toro belt 115-7407 B 174.75" $ 180
Exmark belt 109-8070 B 175.75" $ 139
Guess what gets fitted to all my customers Z Masters.
No apprecilble difference in belt life, 2-3 years
One of the reasons why BSA became the largest makers of motorcycles on the planet was no engineer could specify a new part when an existing part could be made or altered to fit.

Mr.Quebedeaux said:

It was too small of a belt on the bottom of the two drive belts. And that's why it was going so fast.. but now I have another problem I'm dealing with. If you have any knowledge about the motor I would love to give you the run down and see what you think. If It's not to much trouble for you. I'd greatly appreciate it...

Click to expand...

Please start a new thread either in the engine section or the brand section.'IT gets very confusing when we get multiple problems that are not related in the same thread.
The good people on this site are always willing to help where they can.