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looking for a zero turn 3.27 acres

#1

M

mikdugal1

I settle on my house this Friday, 3 days !!!. Well I'm going to need a lawn mowet. The property is 3.27 acres all open. There are 3 trees, 2 of which I will have to remove. The one tree is to close to the septic tank. The second being two close to the underground power lines... Idiot previous owners. Well I digress..

The yard is open vertually no grade, well a tiny one not enough to call it anything. I'm looking for a zzero turn mower and can't figure out what I want. I have been looking online at scag, husqvarna, cb cudet and a few others I cant remember. Is there a guide one would follow to choose. What size deck do I want, how many ponies, desiel or Reg gas..

I look forward to a good discussion.


#2

RobertBrown

RobertBrown

mikdugal1 said:
I settle on my house this Friday, 3 days !!!. Well I'm going to need a lawn mowet. The property is 3.27 acres all open. There are 3 trees, 2 of which I will have to remove. The one tree is to close to the septic tank. The second being two close to the underground power lines... Idiot previous owners. Well I digress..

The yard is open vertually no grade, well a tiny one not enough to call it anything. I'm looking for a zzero turn mower and can't figure out what I want. I have been looking online at scag, husqvarna, cb cudet and a few others I cant remember. Is there a guide one would follow to choose. What size deck do I want, how many ponies, desiel or Reg gas..

I look forward to a good discussion.
Click to expand...

What's the budget? We will happy to set you up with 14,000$ mower if you don't specify. If I could justify the cost I would get one of those Ventrac's.
I think a diesel is your best bet.


#3

M

mikdugal1

Thats a very good question. I am not sure sorry I don't know what quality:price ratio is ha. Well I guess from 2000 to idk 4500 if fianancing is available it could change.. this will be my first lawn mower purchase so im not sure about prices


#4

Ric

Ric

mikdugal1 said:
I settle on my house this Friday, 3 days !!!. Well I'm going to need a lawn mowet. The property is 3.27 acres all open. There are 3 trees, 2 of which I will have to remove. The one tree is to close to the septic tank. The second being two close to the underground power lines... Idiot previous owners. Well I digress..

The yard is open vertually no grade, well a tiny one not enough to call it anything. I'm looking for a zzero turn mower and can't figure out what I want. I have been looking online at scag, husqvarna, cb cudet and a few others I cant remember. Is there a guide one would follow to choose. What size deck do I want, how many ponies, desiel or Reg gas..

I look forward to a good discussion.
Click to expand...

Try this link, it may give you the information on the size of deck you want.
Choose the Right Deck Size


#5

M

mikdugal1

I'm think about the Toro time cutter ss5000 74630 50" 22 ponies

3199.00


#6

R

robert

As a former zt owner I say forget about it-with the size property you have AND the lay of the land a good GT or compact will serve you alot better than a single purpose zippidy do dah. As far a diesel v gas-diesel is the only way to go for alot of reasons; its a greener fuel (alot greener than corn gas) the engine will last forever (longer than the Republic) and you will use probably less than half the fuel compared to a gasser.
With your property you will find alot of uses for all the neat implements you can put onto a good GT or cut......


#7

G

GoToGuy

Several things to consider...
1. As Robert implied, what will you be doing?cutting only= zero turn, chores= GT or compact.
2. Look at the guage of the deck. "Welded' is quickly becoming a gimmick.
3. What is the durability rating of the engine. they all have cheap, low-hour versions today.
4. Same goes for drive systems, are they servicable or sealed units?

Remember, a $6,000 machine that lasts 15 years is a lot cheaper than a $2'500 one that lasts 4!


#8

B

Black Bart

Unless you are retired and don't mind spending one day a week mowing the lawn buy a large ZTR.
I would get a used tractor for other chores.
I use a 180 JD for rolling and aerating.
You could pick up a good used tractor for $500.00

I would hate to mow a small lawn with a tractor and sure would not consider one for over 3 acres.


#9

R

robert

BlackBart, put a monster 62/72" deck on a 7 series that makes about 9mph and I bet in the end its a draw between time against a zt, plus the tractor operator will be more relaxed-better hydrated-and you get to buy implements for the rest of your life-or better yet, you significant other gets to buy you neat stuff forever; think of how easy it would make the Holidays. :laughing:


#10

B

Black Bart

robert said:
BlackBart, put a monster 62/72" deck on a 7 series that makes about 9mph and I bet in the end its a draw between time against a zt, plus the tractor operator will be more relaxed-better hydrated-and you get to buy implements for the rest of your life-or better yet, you significant other gets to buy you neat stuff forever; think of how easy it would make the Holidays. :laughing:
Click to expand...

Yes Robert I'm well aware of how you hate a ZTR I also think you are the only one on this forum that believes a ZTR is not faster.

You are also the only person I every heard of that could not master operating A ZTR without tearing up the turf.

As it was pointed out to you numerous times when you had one the problem was the operator not the mower


#11

Parkmower

Parkmower

robert said:
BlackBart, put a monster 62/72" deck on a 7 series that makes about 9mph and I bet in the end its a draw between time against a zt, plus the tractor operator will be more relaxed-better hydrated-and you get to buy implements for the rest of your life-or better yet, you significant other gets to buy you neat stuff forever; think of how easy it would make the Holidays. :laughing:
Click to expand...

Hogwash! Even with that big a deck the zt would still be done atleast half hour earlier. I do agree if you plan on using it for other than just mowing you want a gt. If you want the yard mowed FAST get a Zt!


#12

R

robert

Park, going from a zt to the GT at our house has resulted in an insignificant increase in operating time and the few extra minutes are looked forward to as the tractor is 100% more comfortable than the zt. For the property the op described I still maintain it would be a wash.

Going zero turn was a very bad decision-for me and I suspect it is for the majority of people who purchase them.

BlackBart, sorry Bro but even a major maker says the design is prone to turf damage, but what do they know right?-is is impossible to make a true zero turn on turf without causing damage, near zero perhaps but zero, no way, no how.


#13

Parkmower

Parkmower

robert said:
Park, going from a zt to t

Going zero turn was a very bad decision-for me and I suspect it is for the majority of people who purchase them.


Don't believe that. Why do they still make them if they are such a bad decision for most people. And have you talked to most people who buy them? Your speaking on their behalf so I hope you did. You know what happens when you ASSume things.

I have no problem that you don't like zt's. But I don't care for the way you continually knock them and constantly try to sway people away from buying them.

And FYI I'm fairly new to zt's. And I love them. I have three 4wd front mounts and one zt to pick from everyday. I always choose the zt unless I mowing the hills. I mowed on front mounts for the past 15 years and zt for last two. This summer I purchased a small zt for home and have no regrets.
Click to expand...


#14

R

robert

Park-okedoke.


#15

Ric

Ric

mikdugal1 said:
I settle on my house this Friday, 3 days !!!. Well I'm going to need a lawn mower. The property is 3.27 acres all open. There are 3 trees, 2 of which I will have to remove. The one tree is to close to the septic tank. The second being two close to the underground power lines... Idiot previous owners. Well I digress..

The yard is open virtually no grade, well a tiny one not enough to call it anything. I'm looking for a zero turn mower and can't figure out what I want. I have been looking online at scag, husqvarna, cub cadet and a few others I cant remember. Is there a guide one would follow to choose. What size deck do I want, how many ponies, diesel or Reg gas..

I look forward to a good discussion.
Click to expand...

I already posted a guide on what size deck you should be looking for and personally I don't believe you need anything bigger than a 54" As far as engine size goes, I think you'll find that will pretty much be determined by the size of the deck you buy, not to say that you can't order the size engine you want. As far as fuel personally I'd go with the gas if you are only mowing the 3.27 but that's JMO.

The other thing I'd like to comment on is the ZT vs GT. I think everyone knows that a ZT is a faster cutting machine than a GT common sense would tell you that, not to say that the GT doesn't have it's uses. Everybody has different needs when it comes to mowers and equipment, I think that's why they're so many different manufacturers such a wide variety to choose from.:wink:


#16

M

mikdugal1

Thanks for the reply guys.. I still haven't purchased a mower yet. I've had a company cut it last week for 75 bucks, pretty good deal if you ask me..

I still like the ztr not sure. The original home owner had a john deere 445 or 455 sorry not exact definitly one of them. He also had a 60" deck and said it took him almost 2 hours to mow.


#17

R

robert

ric, the ztr is faster? from going back to a GT from a crappy new Quest I have to say: not enough to make any real difference. The crappy new Exmark Quest I had moved at a maximum of 7.0 mph-when it started, my great new Cub GT2000 has a top speed of 6.5. But more important than mph is whether or not the lay of the land will permit mowing at the top speed of the equipment you have-what good is a 10 mph machine when you have to mow a 4mph lot?(all while doing those special turns that Scag says is best with a ztr to avoid turf damage......yeah boys I know, Scag don't know jack)

My new Cub mows better than the crappy new Quest I had, I am far more comfortable on the Cub than I was on the crappy new Quest, the engine on the Cub is going to last longer than the engine on the crappy Quest-even Briggs says so-the transmission is alot heavier duty on the Cub than the crappy new Quest I had and I can pull more and do more on my new Cub than I could have on the crappy new Quest that I had.

Hell I wish it took twice as long to mow on the Cub than the crappy new Quest that I just got rid of, thats how much more I like the Cub :thumbsup:

mik, you raise an important point: at $75 bucks-this has to be the deal of the century- to mow your estate sized lawn it would take you alot of years to recover the cost of even a used good quality machine and many many years to recover the cost of a new quality machine. Let someone else do the work while you have a cold one and WATCH. Take your time and look for the killer deal-AND more importantly while you wait for dealers to bring by machines for you to demo.

Your MUST demo list:

JD 500/700 - cut and X445 ZT
Kubota ZG
Kubota GR

and of course the Cub GT2000 series


#18

Sammy the Red

Sammy the Red

I have both Garden Tractors and Zero Turn mowers.
Mowing a lawn on one of my garden tractors will wear my back out after a certain amount of time. Mowing the same lawn with one of my zero turns is a breeze ! Back does not wear out at all.


#19

Ric

Ric

Yes robert the ZTR is a faster machine without a doubt, the top speed on your tractor is 6.5 and the top speed of the Tank is 10mph heck my Z-Force 48 runs 8mph. The problem is that most people don't understand is that those speeds are used for transport, (deck all they up) it's not a mowing speed on any mower.

BlackBart, said put a monster 62/72" deck on a 7 series that makes about 9mph. Heck if you want mowing speed go down and buy the Hustler Hyper Drive, they have a 37hp Kawasaki and hustler claims 18mph mowing speeds, but it's all irrelevant when you don't and can't mow over 4 or 5 mph.

I ran a CC LT 1045 and it was a great mower but personally I'll never own a tractor style mower again, as far as I'm concerned there a waste for mowing, to much work and too time consuming.

You can talk about Scag, ExMark, Hustler and especially John Deere all you want, they're all good mowers but half of what you pay for is nothing more than the name, ones no better than the other.


#20

173abn

173abn

I've got a CUT I used to mow with a finish mower,It would take 3+ hrs to mow around 3 acres.Bought a used 928d Grasshopper w/61" front mount deck and will never mow again w/ the tractor and finish mower.Just my preferance but I like diesel and it does'nt use the fuel like a gasser would.I would have to use a push mower to mow my ditch but w/the ZTR can do it.Takes a little more than an hr. now.Let us know what you decide to get..russ


#21

R

robert

It just seems silly to me to put forth the notion that if one must purchase one machine only the zt, any zt-is the best choice for the size property mentioned.

I will continue to maintain that the mowing speed difference between a fast zt and the average GT/CUT is insignificant even when considering a three acre parcel.

If comfort is important to anyone that simply has to have a zt then the best suggestion I can give is to demo a Ferris with full suspension, in a word the machine is- amazing-.


#22

173abn

173abn

Well Robert I'll maintain that it cut my mowing time dramatically.It might not make much differance if you don't have a lot of trees or other obstacles to mow around but it sure makes a differance if you do.Even using my little JD111 takes more time than using my ZTR....russ


#23

R

robert

russ, well lets end it with this question; you must choose one machine only, no other, which can be used on your property for the next five years which are you going with?


#24

Ric

Ric

I'll tell you what guys, why don't one of you just start a Poll and put it to a vote. Seems simple.:thumbsup:


#25

K

KennyV

I've mowed with almost every type mower made, and the ZTR is going to be the fastest & if you shop around, you can also get a spectacular cut with a fantastic Ride...

Even without any obstacles, you will have to make turns to mow an open 3 acres... Your turns on a ZT are more productive than any other type mower... :smile:KennyV


#26

173abn

173abn

OK robert you got me on that one.If I only had the cash for one type I'd have to go w/the most versatile one for my money.Thats why and what I used when I bought my Yanmar CUT because I could use many attachtments w/it.But now that I 've got the money I bought my Z,glad that I did..russ


#27

R

robert

russ, that would be my choice also-diesel of course. Many here are of the opinion that a zt is alot faster, my experience is the opposite; but I think we can all agree that a GT or cut offers much more with regard to getting varied tasks accomplished, with a three acre parce or any larger piece of property, l I believe it is by far the best choice and the choice which will return far more when and if it comes time to sell.


#28

M

mikdugal1

How do you guys feel about the deere z465. I'm sure I mentioned I don't want a deere but seems pretty inexpensive for a john deere. And its a zero turn. 62" deck


#29

B

Black Bart

mikdugal1 said:
How do you guys feel about the deere z465. I'm sure I mentioned I don't want a deere but seems pretty inexpensive for a john deere. And its a zero turn. 62" deck
Click to expand...
For years I used a Grasshopper 725 with a 72 inch deck to mow my lawn but last spring I bought a new JD Z Track with a 54 inch deck and it will mow my lawn in less time than the GH could and it even looks better also.

The GH has a 12 foot wheelbase the JD has a 48 inch wheelbase it will get in and out of places the GH could not go.

The space needed to turn is just a fraction of the others that I have.
I have 2 JD tractors but I never mow with them they are soooooo yesterday.

I priced a new GH with a 52" deck it was $10.800.00 I got my JD for less than half that price.

The new Z Track is a very nice machine and it is priced right also.

I love my JD Z Track.


#30

R

robert

Black Bart, how big is your property?


#31

B

Black Bart

robert said:
Black Bart, how big is your property?
Click to expand...
I live in a small town and my lot is 1/2 acre.

Before you point out that chart that says I need a little tiny thing I don't buy that crap for a minute.
No way I'm going to make a career out of mowing lawn.

I have far too many things I would rather be doing than riding around on a little tractor and
then spending 45 minutes mowing the spots that the tractor could not get.

I had 2 failed back surgeries and walking is nearly impossible NO WAY will I ever park my front deck and mow with a little tractor so that I can spend 45 minutes walking behind a hand mower.

My hand mower has not been started all year and that suits me just fine.

If I had to mow 3 acres I would buy a 66" Swisher pull behind and pull it behind my JD Z Trak.

Years ago I lived on a big lot in the country and I had 2 pull behind mowers one on each side.

When I got home on Friday eve. I could cut the lawn in 20 minutes and be on my way to the lake for the weekend. :biggrin:

Even when my health was good I could always find things that I would rather do than mow the lawn.


#32

R

robert

BlackBart, my GT could mow your lot in about 15 minutes running on one cylinder (its a twin)..

Our new Cub GT is far more comfortable to operate than the Exmark was, I find it difficult to believe that your GrassHopper is easier on your back than your tractor but as I have not spent much time on one I'll take your word for this.


#33

B

Black Bart

robert said:
BlackBart, my GT could mow your lot in about 15 minutes running on one cylinder (its a twin)..

Our new Cub GT is far more comfortable to operate than the Exmark was, I find it difficult to believe that your GrassHopper is easier on your back than your tractor but as I have not spent much time on one I'll take your word for this.
Click to expand...
You don't exaggerate do you Robert.
It takes 45 minutes to mow my lawn with my JD tractor with 46 inch deck but that is not the bad part it is the 45 minutes with a hand mower to cut what the tractor could not get that I don't like.

With the JD EZ Trak I don't use the hand mower I can cut everything with the ZTR.
All a matter of what you prefer walk and push a mower or ride and be done.

If you don't have any off set in your lot and ALL buildings are build with no off set in them then a tractor will cut all of it but it will still take more time.

If I lived closer to you I would bring my ZTR to your place and show you I can cut your lawn in half the time of your tractor.

I'm aware of the problems you had with the ZTR but just because you could not master it don't mean no one on planet earth can't.

You would not believe how much faster I would cut your lawn.:laughing:


#34

R

robert

BB, remember I -had- a zt so I do speak with some experience and my finding was that the zt was only a tiny bit faster, far less comfortable and, since you insist in bringing the topic up again, far more damaging to the turf than the GT is. Remember that it is not only I that say this, but for some reason you, and others here want to pin this topic, the inherent nature of zt mowers to damage turf, on me and that really is fine.
This seems to drive you and many others here bananas but IT IS impossible to make zero turn on turf without causing damage, my expereince confirms this and Scag states the same. I can understand you ignoring and taking exception to me making this point but why you persist on completely disregarding Scag's position on the matter is interesting to me.

In the end however, all that matters is that you are satisfied with your mower; I am curious though as to whether or not you took a proper demo of the Ferris full suspension machine-or do you maintain that this system is not effective?


#35

T

Tindal

look at the Husky MZ6128zt , I just bought one for 4995.00 and this thing is fast and powerful.61 inch cut , 1/4 inch deck . it has the hydro gear 3400 drives , comfy seat . its fun to cut grass now , used to take 3 hours with a 48inch GT now 1 hour 10 min . there is no mower out there with better value for the money.K.T.


#36

R

robert

Tindal, you raise a valid point; I don't think that anyone-myself included-would argue that operating a zt is not 'fun'.


#37

J

jenkinsph

While a zt mower is faster than a gt mower I agree with that, what do the zt guys do about the other chores such as fertilizing and aerating the lawns?

My x749 will mow about 6 mph on my lawn but has to slow down on most of my customer lawns which are too rough. My transport speed is about 8.5 mph but that is faster than I like to mow. I can mow my 3.25 acre property which has about 2.6 acres of grass in a little over two hours. That is a mix of smaller conjested areas and a 1.5 acre open area with a few trees to mow around. The x749 rides a lot better than my older L130 riding mower and is more agile too. I really chose the gt for it's versatility with attachments and low center of gravity on slopes. It operates a 48" tiller and other attachments in close quarters where the compact tractors won't fit. This has reduced the amount of hand labor needed to renovate lawns for my work.

Would I consider a zt mower? Definately, but would still need the other machines to do the balance of the work.


#38

F

Fiona

In my mind , it is not so safe to use a ZTR, fast and not stable. I think you can use a ride on mower, especially on weekend, just like entertainment time.:laughing:


#39

R

robert

yes, especially on slopes/inclines and slippery conditions


#40

T

Tindal

Fiona said:
In my mind , it is not so safe to use a ZTR, fast and not stable. I think you can use a ride on mower, especially on weekend, just like entertainment time.:laughing:
Click to expand...

Have you driven a ZT mower before? or is it all in your mind? I mean no disrespect ,but some people may not be capable at driving a ZT as well as a GT . I have 3 GTs and a deisel tractor with a woods finish mower , and the ZT is my favorite and the fastest by far to cut grass with. I do agree that you need to be capable of operating any machinery at a comfortable and safe level . 2 weeks ago I was on the Charlotte motor speedway at 180 mph , was it safe? well im still here.:licking:


#41

R

robert

Tindal, by definition no activity is 'safe' however somethings are safer than others and yes I agree that opeating a tractor is much safer than operating any zero turn mower, and double yes, I have used both.

Unlike a tractor which has a more neutral distribution of weight, the zero turn is positively weight biased towards the rear, this cannot be disputed which means that by design, the tractor is safer than the zero turn and we haven't even begun the discussion of turning actions....


#42

T

Tindal

robert said:
Tindal, by definition no activity is 'safe' however somethings are safer than others and yes I agree that opeating a tractor is much safer than operating any zero turn mower, and double yes, I have used both.

Unlike a tractor which has a more neutral distribution of weight, the zero turn is positively weight biased towards the rear, this cannot be disputed which means that by design, the tractor is safer than the zero turn and we haven't even begun the discussion of turning actions....
Click to expand...

Robert , then tell me why so many people get killed on tractors?


#43

T

Tindal

The safest way is to get someone else to cut your lawn:confused2:


#44

T

Tindal

I don't have a problem with cutting with my ZT . but thats just me . I agree if thats something you are not capable of doing then stay off the thing , but that goes back full circle to common sense !!! they dont teach that in school. :thumbsup:


#45

K

KennyV

Tindal said:
I don't have a problem with cutting with my ZT . but thats just me . I agree if thats something you are not capable of doing then stay off the thing , but that goes back full circle to common sense !!! they dont teach that in school. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Tindal ... I think you have pretty well summed up this whole non issue about tractor vs ZT...

And I can see how someone May have a phobia as to the safety of a particular Type of equipment... and your right, if you can't deal with it... "stay off the thing" ... there is no reason to press your luck.

I'm with you, I have been mostly very safe & very happy on any ZT I have been on... great machines, great designs & will be the best until some one comes out with a complete levitating mower...
Happy mowing. :smile:KennyV


#46

R

robert

Tindal, you have an interesting thought process: perhaps there are more injuries on tractors than zero turns because there are alot more tractors in use, AND perhaps, just perhaps SOME tractors are used on F A R M S :tongue:


#47

T

Tindal

Just a thought here , then does it make tractors safe or not safe ? or does it make them more or less safe to be used on a farm ? are you saying farmers dont know how to use tractors, or is it that tractors have a high center of gravity and are prone to roll over? :confused2:


#48

R

robert

Tindal, would you be so good as to post the links that provide the support for your claim of zt v tractor accidents?

Once again, no activity is safe by definition.

There are many many thousands of tractors in use for each zero turn, which of course would mean that there would be more accidents for tractors than zero turns AND because many hundreds of thousands of tractors are in use on farms the accident rate would reflect this also. And yes, the fact that there are serious tractor related accidents on farms does mean that the opeators were negligent OR experienced an operating situations which presented a new challenge to them, when of course no mechanical problems can be identified, after all people do make mistakes.

Rather than posting silly nonsense perhaps you will help those who are thinking about the purchase of a zero turn by commenting on what Briggs and Scag have posted regrding the design of the zero turn AND maybe you would have a few moments to comment on which design has a more neutral weight distribution, and then tell us about the axle/drive weight limits for the common zero turn machines and how this compares to the common models lawn/garden tractors.

I am certain that many homeowners would appreciate knowing just how much weight a zero turn can tow in the event that a lawn vaccum, roller, cart or other implement could be put to use so perhaps you can enlighten them. For instance my Cub GT2000 is rated as capable to tow a 950lb roller and a cart with a load of 1500 lbs, or at least the data from Cub states this, certainly enough for me to do real work in addition to mowing my lawn perfectly..... Contrast this ability to my stupid Exmark which was rated to tow a massive 300 lbs TOTAL.

The lawn/garden tractor is the safest design for the average homeowner; it will mow the turf in virtually the same amount of time and in a more relaxed environment. The tractor will provide more bang for you dollar and will outlast any zero turn.

I would only direct everyone to the Scag and Briggs site to read for yourself what these manufacturers say about the zero turn design-Parkmower, Tindal, BlackBart and others refuse to comment on this and I hope that all find their silence as interesting as I.


#49

B

Black Bart

robert said:
Tindal, would you be so good as to post the links that provide the support for your claim of zt v tractor accidents?

Once again, no activity is safe by definition.

There are many many thousands of tractors in use for each zero turn, which of course would mean that there would be more accidents for tractors than zero turns AND because many hundreds of thousands of tractors are in use on farms the accident rate would reflect this also. And yes, the fact that there are serious tractor related accidents on farms does mean that the opeators were negligent OR experienced an operating situations which presented a new challenge to them, when of course no mechanical problems can be identified, after all people do make mistakes.

Rather than posting silly nonsense perhaps you will help those who are thinking about the purchase of a zero turn by commenting on what Briggs and Scag have posted regrding the design of the zero turn AND maybe you would have a few moments to comment on which design has a more neutral weight distribution, and then tell us about the axle/drive weight limits for the common zero turn machines and how this compares to the common models lawn/garden tractors.

I am certain that many homeowners would appreciate knowing just how much weight a zero turn can tow in the event that a lawn vaccum, roller, cart or other implement could be put to use so perhaps you can enlighten them. For instance my Cub GT2000 is rated as capable to tow a 950lb roller and a cart with a load of 1500 lbs, or at least the data from Cub states this, certainly enough for me to do real work in addition to mowing my lawn perfectly..... Contrast this ability to my stupid Exmark which was rated to tow a massive 300 lbs TOTAL.

The lawn/garden tractor is the safest design for the average homeowner; it will mow the turf in virtually the same amount of time and in a more relaxed environment. The tractor will provide more bang for you dollar and will outlast any zero turn.

I would only direct everyone to the Scag and Briggs site to read for yourself what these manufacturers say about the zero turn design-Parkmower, Tindal, BlackBart and others refuse to comment on this and I hope that all find their silence as interesting as I.
Click to expand...

I have commented on it twice but you are not listening.
It is just like when you had the x mark and Kenny V took the time to post a very detailed explanation as to how you should make a turn but you only wanted to argue not take his advice.

I do realize that I will never get through to you your mind is made up and nothing anyone has to say matters you will just continue with the same ole Bull S*** but it does get old.


#50

K

KennyV

robert said:
The lawn/garden tractor is the safest design for the average homeowner; it will mow the turf in virtually the same amount of time and in a more relaxed environment. The tractor will provide more bang for you dollar and will outlast any zero turn.

I would only direct everyone to the Scag and Briggs site to read for yourself what these manufacturers say about the zero turn design-Parkmower, Tindal, BlackBart and others refuse to comment on this and I hope that all find their silence as interesting as I.
Click to expand...

robert,
First.. I'm sorry You had a bad experience with your ZT... but listen to you... your trying to head a one man campaign against ZTs...
You have now talked yourself into believing that: The lawn/garden tractor is the safest design for the average homeowner; it will mow the turf in virtually the same amount of time and in a more relaxed environment. The tractor will provide more bang for you dollar and will outlast any zero turn.
You injecting THIS into a post that has ... LOOKING for a ZERO TURN in it's TITLE...

Second.. The notations you are making about what TWO 'manufacturers say about the zero turn' is there in the same manner that you will find, Caution contains Hot liquid" on a coffee cup.... it is NOT intended to keep the average user from drinking coffee...
You are grasping at straws, trying to make ... WHAT point??? That many, many, many manufactures and consumers are following the commercial mowers and switching to ZT.... and you don't really understand why...
I have tried to rebuff your statements before... but you just keep strumming the same two cords...It is Not an accurate representation of what is really taking place all across this country... ZT's are being successfully used by those that will tell you they would never switch back... but all this has been pointed out already...
Third... at this time I'm going to consider this as my final addition to the hijacking of the OP Titled thread...
ZTs will be around for a long time AND there are MANY manufactures building quite a few different designed ZTs... :smile:KennyV


#51

Ric

Ric

Want to know what Scag says about there ZTR




#52

R

robert

Ric,, not one word about towing capacity but I did notice the quick disclaimer that everyone should see the owner/operator manual for safe -proper operation, wonder what the manual states?

No one would be able to mow at the speeds this mower is capable of, unless it were on an astro turf field and this has been one of my points all along-the zt is a very limited machine which offers virtually no benefits and and only significant liabilities, risk to the average homeowner.

On the upside, I really do appreciate the engineering that went into this machine too bad the cost of this single purpose machine is more than likely in the stratosphere, or perhaps even in deep space.

Does anyone wonder why the makers of zt's go to such lengths in offering seats with extreme suspension systems?-BlackBart, Tindal, Parkmower, KennyV - any of you care to comment? or for once perhaps one of you would do some research and determine the towing capacity of this machine OR even post the capacity for your own- BlackBart you are off the hook here because I have already corrected your ridiculous post by contacting Grasshopper and getting the facts, your machine can tow, according to the maker, only a load that can be moved by HAND.

So that leaves, Parkmower, Tindal, and KennyV to step up to the plate and go on record as posting what the maker of the machine (s) you have/operate state is the weight limit AND please include if this number is with or without the weight of the operator because I have posted the number from Hustler which was a 400 lb limit BUT this number includes the operator WHICH BlackBart means that the tow rating is alot lower.

Sot to be clear and factual for all who are looking into the purchase of a zero turn, if you were to buy a Hustler Super Z, and were of average weight, lets be modest and assign a 180 lbs operator weight, that shiny new zippydoodah that you just spent mega bucks for would not even be able to tow the average homeowner leaf vacuum.

And BlackBart, KennyV, Tindal and Parkmower isn't this the type of information that would be of benefit to the op and all those who are following this thread?

Oops, I must make a correction-checking the weight of a few consumer leaf vacs I see that the Super Z might, just might be able to tow the EMPTY vacuum but a few feet of debris in the hopper would put it over the limit.

BlackBart, KennyV, Tindal and Parkmower, see the lengths I go through to make certain that all the folks who are following this thread get accurate info from ME ??, now why don't you guys do the same and provide some facts for everyone???


AND when you do perhaps we can reach a consensus as to which machine, the purpose built zero turn or the multi functional lawn/garden tractor is best, safer for the AVERAGE homeowner, perhaps-unless of course you all think that doing so would be impolite and unfair to the op...............................


KennyV, more 'sour grapes'?


#53

Parkmower

Parkmower

Robert I already told you I was done with you so please stop.
I know my residential zt has a towing limit of 150 lbs.
I have said MANY times if you can only afford one machine and it will need to perform multiple duties it should be a GT.
And I said if all your goin to do is mow and you want it done fast you want a ZT.

I've said all this trying to be helpful to a person looking to purchase a new machine. Not try to brainwash them into my way of thinkin by dragging their post out for so long that they shake their heads wondering why they came here in the first place.

So now I would appreciate it if you'd leave my name out of your posts


#54

R

robert

Parkmower, see this is the type of posts that will help someone make a decision and I sincerely thank you for your input, as for your request to make your screen name off limits; only if using anyone's fake identity is a violation of site rules; what make and model zt do you have again?

My name is Robert and I am proud that I post only facts-from identified sources-and the results of my own experience with a poopy Exmark zt and a brand new Cub Cadet which can cut grass as well as any zt and can do much more than any zt-this is what I must make other homeowners aware of.


#55

Parkmower

Parkmower

Yr so good at research you should be able to tell me what ZT I have


#56

R

robert

Well as a matter of fact Parkmower, Hustler just responded to an email citing the towing capacity for the Fastrak SD and it is 150lbs -exactly the same as your mower-so as a wild guess.................


#57

Parkmower

Parkmower

Ehhh wrong


#58

R

robert

Parkmower, someone else makes a zt that cannot tow diddly ? hey at least you can mow about as fast as I can.


#59

Parkmower

Parkmower

I apologize to the OP because a certain individual decided to use this thread as a battleground. Whatever kind of mower you get let us know. And pics are always good.


#60

T

Tindal

I didnt buy my husky MZ6128 to tow , I bought it to cut grass . and it does that well . I have 3 GTs and a compact tractor with a 5 foot woods finish mower , and a john deere 310 backhoe so if I need to tow something , bend something or break something ,dig something , lift something , I have enought things at hand to do that without backing the zero turn out of the shop.But I have nothing that will cut grass like the ZT. hey but thats just me !!!


#61

R

robert

Parkmower, I would also like to opolgize to the op for you not providing any facts.

Tindal, well painfully slow progress is still preferable to no progress: so perhaps you are stating that for the op the purpose built zt may NOT be the best choice as the sole maching to acquire for the property size mentioned ?-AND perhaps, just perhaps also not suitable for the 'average' homeowner either??


#62

Chev

Chev

I would like to apologize to the OP for the regression here.

What part of the subject line refers to the debate between ZT and GT?

The OP hasn't come back since page 2. :thumbsup:


#63

R

robert

chev, you do need to apolgize to the op but for being 'confused' about the facts-on page two he posted words to the effect that he still liked the ztr but that he was not sure, he again posted on page three.

What some may find interesting is wording from the Husqvarna owners manual for the MZ6128ZT, the machine a member here uses and has gone on record as saying that he acquired only to mow grass and that this machine does this job 'well'....

Husqvarna states in the owners manual :

"This machine is constructed only for mowing grass on lawns and even ground without obstacles such as stones, tree stumps, etc."

"Zero turn can be acheived by moving one control backward (behind the neutral position) and carefully moving the other steering control forward from its neutral position"

'they may damage the turf due to overly agressive maneuvers'

Parkmower, Blackbart, Tindal and KennyV : with regard to making a true zero turn: will you all go on record as stating that another maker of zt mowers knows not of what they speak? :biggrin:


#64

T

Tindal

Robert , I think you are confused , I havent said that I want a ZT to tow ! also it says if you are :laughing: you may damage turff , Im ok with that , I have had my GTs tires dig grass from wheel spin when I have been overly agressive with it also , but I didnt go back and read the book to see if they put that in the book . if they tried to write a book on common sense , you couldnt carry it and it would take a lifetime to read it . I think most people here get this whole concept . I learned a long time ago that if you wrestle a hog in a mud hole , the only thing will happen is that you get muddy and the hog loves to get muddy ! So I dont want to get muddy ! IM done .:laughing:


#65

Sammy the Red

Sammy the Red

robert said:
Husqvarna states in the owners manual :

"This machine is constructed only for mowing grass on lawns and even ground without obstacles such as stones, tree stumps, etc."........... :biggrin:
Click to expand...

Yup, they put that in there for the dummies that can't figure out how to properly use a Z-turn and tend to buy on the cheap. :biggrin: :eek: :biggrin:


#66

M

Mad Mackie

I'm going to add to the mix!! I have mowed commercially for years with high rear wheel Case/Ingersoll GTs with collection systems. Very seldom did I tear up turf with these machines. I bought a new Scag Tiger Cub with a collection system in 2008. It took me almost a year to get accustomed to operating this machine and I came close to selling it. It takes carefull operation of a ZTR so as not to tear up turf and this takes time and patience. Many times I find myself taking wide turns to reduce the turf damage and I did this with my GTs. Turf conditions contribute about 80% as to the likelyhood of damage, and 20% to the operator. What I mean by this is the thickness, moisture content, moss content, and density of the turf contribute to it's survival while turning a ZTR. Most ZTRs have a ridgid frame which demands more operator expertise. Longer frame and taller rear tires reduce the turf problem. ZTRs with wheel motors and pumps are more responsive to operator control than hydrostatic and mechanical clutch models, but are more expensive.
The tendancy to mow and make turns at too fast of a speed is a ZTR characteristic that requires attention by the operator.
The big thing for me is that I could remove and clean the decks on my GTs very easily but not so with my ZTR and it gets crudded up sooner than my GT decks do.
Another major consideration is that a ZTR will only mow grass. My Gts will mow, tow, plow snow, blow snow, and take many attachments that are not usable on ZTRs.
Mad Mackie in CT:biggrin:


#67

R

robert

Mad Mackie, great post, thank you.

Tindal, Sammy - the largest maker of power equipment in the world AND a very major player in the zt market say the same thing and this means nothing to some here, really you boys are amazing.

Everything that can be said has been said, in closing I would advise every homeowner agonizing over the purchase of a zt to read what Scag says, what Husqvarna says, and what Briggs says about the inherent nature of the zt mower.

Then read what Mad Mackie typed, then read it again, again and once more..........

Good luck in you decison and above all else get an extended demo or buy from a source that will take the machine back in the event that you, like I realize that a huge mistake was made in the original purchase.

I quickly discovered that the zt was not the right machine for me-the typical homeowner-don't make the same expensive mistake that I made.


#68

Sammy the Red

Sammy the Red

Mad Mackie said:
The big thing for me is that I could remove and clean the decks on my GTs very easily but not so with my ZTR and it gets crudded up sooner than my GT decks do.
Click to expand...

That may be true with some Z-turns, but not all.
On my Z-turn I can clean the deck and change blades very easily in about 10 minutes.


Mad Mackie said:
Another major consideration is that a ZTR will only mow grass. My Gts will mow, tow, plow snow, blow snow, and take many attachments that are not usable on ZTRs.
Mad Mackie in CT:biggrin:
Click to expand...

Again....... That may be true with some Z-turns, but not all.
Some Z-turns you can mount a leaf blower, a plugger, a broom, a push blade, a sprayer and tow.


#69

M

Mad Mackie

The attachments that you are speaking about are minor front mounted units that most any thing that moves on it's own power can accomodate. I have been cutting up trees in my woods that came down this summer and fall from storms and hauling out the cut up wood and there is no way that my ZTR could ever do this.
I have a pit in my garage and I position my ZTR over the pit, remove the blades and clean the deck. Of course the collection blower and hose must be removed beforehand. I'm 68 with torn rotor cuffs on both shoulders!!!
I'm not condemning ZTRs but you all need to realize that what they do they do well and that is mow grass on smooth and fairly level areas and basically that is all. I had to give up several lawn customers that I had because the Scag wouldn't do the job and did scalping on others. I did finally learn how to avoid the scalping by operator technique. Another big thing about ZTRs is that they steer with the rear wheels and you have no control of the front wheels and sliding sideways on hills is of concern. This is stated in my Scag operators manual and I have experienced this first hand several times by sliding sideways out into the street. This caused me to have to spend more time trimming than I do when using my GTs. I have a 48" JRCO dethatcher for my Scag and it is a great combination for dethatching, pushing small branches, and moving leaves around. but this same dethatcher also works fine on my GTs but on both I still have to get off the machine to raise it up.
The cargo trailer that I use for lawn care isn't long enough to carry both the Scag and a GT as I keep other equipment forward in the trailer. I do more than just lawn care, had to get out my chainsaw with a 28" bar last week to bring down some trees for a customer, had to use my GT to haul out the cut wood, then had to get my ZTR to cleanup the grassy areas that I could get to.
To sum up, ZTRs are great for what they do best and that is mowing fairly smooth and level lawns and they do it quicker than the a GT. But a GT will do lots more if you have the need to perform other functions.
For the $9,600 that I spent on the Scag with a collection system, I could have bought a new Ingersoll GT with a deck and a collection system and I was familiar with the Ingersoll units as I already had two of them. I got caught up in the ZTR hype that my fellow lawn care buddies were pushing at me and my Ingersolls were/are high time tractors.
Mad Mackie in CT:thumbsup::biggrin:


#70

M

Mad Mackie

I need to make additional comments regarding mowing on hills with a ZTR. I try to mow up hill and not sideways. This means that I have to turn the ZTR around on the lever and back it straight down the hill and mow up. I very seldom had to do this with my GTs and for the most part I'm doing the same lawns. I use the collection systems almost exclusively as most of my customers cut back on the number of mowings to cut back on their outgoing dollars. I only mow where I can nearby dispose of the clippings and not have to carry them out. My Scag has a 13 bushel capacity and sometimes I empty 5-7 times during a mowing.
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin:


#71

E

earthworm

mikdugal1 said:
Thanks for the reply guys.. I still haven't purchased a mower yet. I've had a company cut it last week for 75 bucks, pretty good deal if you ask me..

I still like the ztr not sure. The original home owner had a john deere 445 or 455 sorry not exact definitly one of them. He also had a 60" deck and said it took him almost 2 hours to mow.
Click to expand...
75$ ?
I thinks that is what my first mower cost..50 plus years ago..Just think if you could pay yourself that $75 !
IMO, the zero-turns are fantastic, quick and with an excellent cut. I marvel as to how an experienced man handles one and on steep hills yet...
Zip and cut !
Good used ones ?
Good luck:biggrin:


#72

R

robert

zip and cut ? on steep hills??, an experienced operator would never attempt this-remember the 15* slope caution, isn't the standard advice to back up and mow down???


#73

Chev

Chev

This message is hidden because robert is on your ignore list.


Ha ha ha ha ha.


#74

E

earthworm

robert said:
chev, you do need to apolgize to the op but for being 'confused' about the facts-on page two he posted words to the effect that he still liked the ztr but that he was not sure, he again posted on page three.

What some may find interesting is wording from the Husqvarna owners manual for the MZ6128ZT, the machine a member here uses and has gone on record as saying that he acquired only to mow grass and that this machine does this job 'well'....

Husqvarna states in the owners manual :

"This machine is constructed only for mowing grass on lawns and even ground without obstacles such as stones, tree stumps, etc."

"Zero turn can be acheived by moving one control backward (behind the neutral position) and carefully moving the other steering control forward from its neutral position"

'they may damage the turf due to overly aggressive maneuvers'

Parkmower, Blackbart, Tindal and KennyV : with regard to making a true zero turn: will you all go on record as stating that another maker of zt mowers knows not of what they speak? :biggrin:
Click to expand...
IMO, fools write the manuals and fools read them(as written)...
A ZT is to a quality dedicated wrench as a garden tractor is to a dog wrench....which cannot do anything well.
We like the machines that can do one thing well, that is cut grass....not race, not tow, out plow snow, not till..There are dedicated machines for these tasks as well..


#75

E

earthworm

robert said:
zip and cut ? on steep hills??, an experienced operator would never attempt this-remember the 15* slope caution, isn't the standard advice to back up and mow down???
Click to expand...
Unlike you and the ZT operator of which I alluded to, I am not a professional lawn mower operator.
So, I will marvel and witness, and appreciate.
Until someone makes a better unit ( a garden tractor with true ZT, as an example), I'll accept today's ZT for use on large lawns (over one acre,IMO) as the best method.


#76

K

KennyV

earthworm said:
....
Until someone makes a better unit ( a garden tractor with true ZT, as an example), I'll accept today's ZT for use on large lawns (over one acre,IMO) as the best method.
Click to expand...

That is absolutely correct...
and there are smaller ZT aimed at smallish lawns, that are equally great...:smile:KennyV


#77

R

robert

Earthworm/KennyV: so 'fools' write the owners manual/tech literature that came with your machines and which you obviously have never read....:laughing: you both are now advising all here who own zt mowers, and all those who are considering the purchase of a zt mower that they can ignore the slope angle caution and exceede 15* (or the posted max) and operate their machine on any hill they wish-and operate in any manner they wish? :confused2:


#78

E

earthworm

robert said:
Earthworm/KennyV: so 'fools' write the owners manual/tech literature that came with your machines and which you obviously have never read....:laughing: you both are now advising all here who own zt mowers, and all those who are considering the purchase of a zt mower that they can ignore the slope angle caution and exceede 15* (or the posted max) and operate their machine on any hill they wish-and operate in any manner they wish? :confused2:
Click to expand...
Robert, sadly you misunderstand.
From what I read and see, these zero-turn machines, for large lawns are great..
I said ,,I observed an expert, a professional operating the machine in a way that I would be scared to...Remember, the experts do not write the home-owner manuals...
Fear is sometimes a good thing..
Knowledge is a better thing..
As to the fools, yes, the safety nazis have, shall we say, taken over the owner manuals....
Do not assume that I do not read them, but I must skip over 90% of the pages... The tech manuals are for more useful and interesting...and expensive..
BTW, if any device was removed from the market because an iota of danger existed, then we would still be living in caves..


#79

R

robert

earthworm, sadly I did get the point of your post-more tragic is that KennyV-apparently- agrees with you..
The question I have for you now is how do you decide which 10% of the manual you will accept as accurate?


#80

Sammy the Red

Sammy the Red

I bet if you bought a chipper, in the manual it would say not to put your hand in the hammer's as you might lose a finger or two or more !

Now, if you did not read the manual, would you put your hand in it ?



Or would some Common Sense prevail !


#81

M

Mad Mackie

Perhaps the forum moderator should start a thread specifically for bickering.
Some suggested titles:
If you don't like someone you can duke it out here!
Sign out the gloves here and head for the ring!
Downloadable e firstaid kits, click here!
Third door on the left is the Chaplain's office!
If you still can't get over it maybe your hat is too tight!
Mad Mackie in CT with a ZTR and a GT, love both, but for different reasons!!!!:laughing::biggrin:


#82

K

KennyV

A bickering only forum would be nice... But those that are here Only to argue would likely Not use it...
The truly disruptive would continue hijacking posts, that have Nothing to do with their repetitive song & dance... they would keep doing exactly the same as now, Until almost everyone places them on an "ignore list". Or just ceases responding to their misguided rants...
If you read the posts in any forums long enough, you will start to get an idea as to the type of person only has one message... That type person would never confine their disruption to a single spot... They will always have some 'rationalization' as to why their single thought should drone on & on... It's best to ignore some thoughts and ideas... and some times some people.... :smile:KennyV


#83

R

robert

KennyV, everything I have posted,that which you and the group of 4 say cannot be accurate, is contained in oem websites, there for you and 'others' to read - oops forgot, you and the others with one track minds cannot read.

My message has been that the people who make the zt know what they make, how to use it and how not to use it, but you know better don't you?-still waiting to read just what 10% of the manual for any given piece of power equipment YOU decide is accurate, Sammy how about you?

Sammy, I have, and thousands of others have put their hands in chippers many times, snowblowers too.


#84

Sammy the Red

Sammy the Red

But were they running at the time you did ? :rolleyes:


#85

E

earthworm

mikdugal1 said:
Thats a very good question. I am not sure sorry I don't know what quality:price ratio is ha. Well I guess from 2000 to idk 4500 if fianancing is available it could change.. this will be my first lawn mower purchase so im not sure about prices
Click to expand...
Nor do I - the quality to price ratio. But, IMO, VW, Chevy, Ford do the best here as they have the numbers and experise.
So look for the most popular mower in you size and price range.
Peruse the mower sites.
I'd avoid financing, buy used instead.
Do get to know your dealers.


#86

R

robert

Sammy this most recent exchange illustrate perfectly the problem you and the core group of 4 has; you boys don't put a whole lot of thought into the posts. I on the other hand post facts with links to those facts and the facts speak for themselves.

To answer the question which you intended but failed to ask from the beginning-no, I have never put my hand into a running chipper or snowblower for that matter.


#87

T

Tindal

look at the original post , he said he was looking for a ZT , what part of that does some dont understand.


#88

K

KennyV

Tindal said:
look at the original post , he said he was looking for a ZT ,
Click to expand...

... Exactly... :thumbsup:
And it is easy to see who does not understand it.... :smile:KennyV


#89

Ric

Ric

Tindal said:
look at the original post , he said he was looking for a ZT , what part of that does some dont understand.
Click to expand...

I agree just look at the OP, but what I thought was funny (and please excuse me if I'm wrong) is what was posted on another thread by the I'm assuming the same person you are commenting about.

robert said:
May I be so bold as to request that all who have responded read again the op :anyone:
Click to expand...


#90

M

Mad Mackie

Yes, eventually in another post the OP corrected the JD model number of a machine that he was looking at and that change removed the GT from the picture and put in the 2nd of two possible ZTRs that were in his price and availability window.
I'm not sure what putting a hand into a wood chipper has to do with the OPs posts relative to his questions about the ZTRs that he was asking about. I have a wood chipper and I put my hands in it to feed it, just not into the turning blades, so far anyway!!!!
Mad Mackie in CT:biggrin::laughing:


#91

R

robert

Tindal, KennyV, Ric, what part of post 16 from the op don't you understand?-but more importantly than another example of just how little thought you boys put into what you post is this:

what could any 'reasonable' person object to about someone offering to members here what Husqvarna, Scag and Briggs post about the inherent issues with ANY zt mower.

I really can understand you taking issue with what my experience, to some extent, in using the zt mower; after all this is subjective to a point. But to go on record that 90% of an owners manual is irrelevant and written by 'fools' AND to persist in taking the position that the people who make the zt mower and the largest maker of power equipment engines in the world are intentionally disseminating inaccurate information is simply astounding.

Yes there are indeed 'fools' putting out info, but the fools are here on this board and they are those who have gone on record as saying most of anyones owners manual is irrelevant, who persist in maintaining that the zt is the best mower for all homeowners, that the zt is capable of much more than mowing, that the zt can be operated on slopes without regard to caution of angle, that the zt will mow the average lawn significantly faster than any lawn/garden tractor and most importantly that ANYONE can make a true zero turn (remember a zero turn requires both drive wheels to be powered in opposite directions-yes I know Tindal Husqarna doesn't really know what a zero turn is-.

I post verifyable facts, you boys post nonsense.

Sammy et al, what is the hit count of this thread? and in the end isn't this fact the sole determinator of relevancy to forum members??, oops forgot again, facts don't matter to some here.........I would strongly suggest that some here cook the pork they consume to higher internal temperatures, know why Tindal???


#92

Carscw

Carscw

Omg Robert give it a rest go back to your doctor let him know that your meds are making you have crazy insane thoughts

Sent from my iPhone using LMF


#93

R

robert

carscw, was it the pork comment?


#94

E

EmerichSales

I would Highly recommend the Toro Titan Series for Over 3 acres! It's one of the BEST Buys out there !!!

Kevin


#95

T

Tindal

Ask Robert , he read it , and will tell you where he read it , so it must be true!


#96

Carscw

Carscw

Yes Robert it is the pork LOL. ZT are nice but not for everyone I do not have one I like my craftsman it is what works best for what I do. I will do 81 yards this week all bank repo homes most yards lots of trees roots and plenty of rocks a ZT just would slow me down and cost to much to repair

Sent from my iPhone using LMF


#97

R

robert

Kevin at Emerich sales, welcome to a very lively thread, if you are the well established New York dealer I would like to ask you a few questions relative to this topic, game?


#98

Sammy the Red

Sammy the Red

Robert,

Thanks for proving my point. Like I said, "Common Sense". You just showed us that you don't have any. Otherwise you would have understood the question. Mad Mackie figured it out as I'm sure that others with common sense, have.

With you buying on the cheap, your inability to learn how to operate a Z-turn and your lack of common sense shows that you have a lot to learn. Hang in there Kid, the light may go on some day for you yet !


#99

E

EmerichSales

robert said:
Kevin at Emerich sales, welcome to a very lively thread, if you are the well established New York dealer I would like to ask you a few questions relative to this topic, game?
Click to expand...

Sure!!
What is your Question?

Thanks
Kevin


#100

R

robert

Kevin, thanks; for those not from the NY, New England area, Emerich is a very respected, very established and very large equipment dealer in the ag/grounds care industry. To keep things easy to follow I'll ask my questions one at a time;

Both Scag and Husqvarna state on their websites, links posted in this thread, that a -true- zero turn or even 'tight' turns cannot be made without damaging turf and that the correct manner in which to operate a zt to avoid damage is to use what is called a 'T' turn or similar-your thoughts?


#101

Ric

Ric

robert said:
Kevin, thanks; for those not from the NY, New England area, Emerich is a very respected, very established and very large equipment dealer in the ag/grounds care industry. To keep things easy to follow I'll ask my questions one at a time;

Both Scag and Husqvarna state on their websites, links posted in this thread, that a -true- zero turn or even 'tight' turns cannot be made without damaging turf and that the correct manner in which to operate a zt to avoid damage is to use what is called a 'T' turn or similar-your thoughts?
Click to expand...

Robert I thought you always gave accurate information, appearently you need to go back and read the Scag site again about the correct manner in which to operate a zt to avoid damage. Scag says to Use a 3-point / Y-turns at the end of a mowing row rather than zero-turns to change direction. It is still a fast maneuver and will reduce the potential of turf damage greatly.


#102

R

robert

Ric, slow progress is still progress; I offer to you that when you operate a zt in the required manner so as to avoid turf damage that in the end, a quality tractor will mow in a time so close so as to make it virtually a draw.
Tractor one, zero turn, well- zero.


#103

Ric

Ric

robert said:
Ric, slow progress is still progress; I offer to you that when you operate a zt in the required manner so as to avoid turf damage that in the end, a quality tractor will mow in a time so close so as to make it virtually a draw.
Tractor one, zero turn, well- zero.
Click to expand...

robert as I said previous knowing how to operate a zero can make all the difference in the world. I've been mowing with a ZTR's and Tractor's for a long time, some thirty or more years with Dixie Chopper, John Deere, Cub Cadet, Honda and so on.
In the time, 24 years I worked for the county the idiots at the county office discovered Lawn and garden tractors in the real world of time and money don't cut it. I also started my business in 2006 with a lawn tractor and shortly found out it wasn't the way to go and replaced them with ZTR's.

If your tractors are so great and faster than and cut better than a ZTR explain to me why myself and all the Professionals in the Lawn-Care business aren't using them? The answer is time is money and the only way you make time and money is with a faster cutting mower, the ZTR.
Now I agree with you as far as making a zero turn on turf without doing damage but I also know that anyone with any common sense knows you don't operate a zero turn that way if you want to stay in business, that was not the design or intention of a ztr.
You talk about mowing speeds 8 and 10 mph, again any idiot knows you can't mow that fast and get a decent cut, those speeds are for transport only, so if you mow the correct speed for your tractor the ztr will be faster and you talk about mowing slopes and as of yet I've not seen anyone talk about slope mowing and doing that the right or correct way.
When it comes right down to it this whole discussion really is irrelevant because you're talking about two different mower designs. The ZTR is the best of the best for what it was designed for and that's mowing lawns and saving time and you cannot dispute that, just like the tractor and its design intention.

I offer to you that when anyone that knows how operate a ztr in the required manner so as to avoid turf damage that in the end, a quality tractor will not come close to the speed of a ZTR. I think if you stop and think about you would realize that there is no way possible you can make a three point turn or 180 degree turn on a tractor as fast as a ZTR, again common sense would tell you that, so time wise the ZTR would finish long before the tractor.


#104

R

robert

Ric, didn't I post long ago that the zt only makes sense for the pro who only wants to mow? but since you are raising the speed issue let me ask you this; on how many jobs are you able to mow at the maximum speed your machine is capable of? or perhaps a better way to ask, if your average job takes an hour in mow time how many minutes do you think you are moving at the highest speed available to you? wanna bet its about 10 minutes?? For your average job....

Hey I just realized that -I- made post 100 here-yuck, yuck, yuck......


#105

Ric

Ric

robert said:
Ric, didn't I post long ago that the zt only makes sense for the pro who only wants to mow? but since you are raising the speed issue let me ask you this; on how many jobs are you able to mow at the maximum speed your machine is capable of? or perhaps a better way to ask, if your average job takes an hour in mow time how many minutes do you think you are moving at the highest speed available to you? wanna bet its about 10 minutes?? For your average job....

Hey I just realized that -I- made post 100 here-yuck, yuck, yuck......
Click to expand...

As I said before You talk about mowing speeds 8 and 10 mph, again any idiot knows you can't mow that fast and get a decent cut. I never mow at full forward speed on any job. Those speeds are for transport only. Same for your tractor, so if you mow the correct speed for your tractor the ztr will be faster. Common sense

Please you didn't answer my other question:
If your tractors are so great and faster than and cut better than a ZTR explain to me why myself and all the Professionals and Commercial Operators in the Lawn-Care business aren't using them?


#106

Carscw

Carscw

A ZT is good if the yard is level. Down here in alabama every yard has a ditch at the road side I have yet to see a ZT that can mow this ditch with out going up and down Takes to long And most are to tall to get under trees or to wide to get threw a gate And they weigh more than a YT more weight on the trailer more gas in the truck to haul it More parts to replace Now if you have a open yard with grass under a foot tall and no hills then a ZT is the way to go

Sent from my iPhone using LMF


#107

K

KennyV

Carscw said:
...
... Now if you have ... grass under a foot tall ... then a ZT is the way to go
Click to expand...
Now THAT is funny... but very true, if your grass is over a foot tall, you need a swather, you left the yard & your out in the hay field... :smile:KennyV

Ric said:
...

Common sense

you didn't answer my other question:
Click to expand...

Ric... I'm pretty sure you have realized your wasting your time with logic & reason here.... robert is Only wanting to hear things that support His wrong impression of ZT's...


#108

Carscw

Carscw

I guess what I am saying is just get what ever it is that will do the job you need it to do. In my line of work I can expect at least one yard a week will have grass (weeds) over a foot tall full of trash rocks Car parts just no telling.

Sent from my iPhone using LMF


#109

Ric

Ric

KennyV said:
Now THAT is funny... but very true, if your grass is over a foot tall, you need a swather, you left the yard & your out in the hay field... :smile:KennyV



Ric... I'm pretty sure you have realized your wasting your time with logic & reason here.... robert is Only wanting to hear things that support His wrong impression of ZT's...
Click to expand...

Kenny, I guess it took me a while but yes I can see what you mean.


#110

E

EmerichSales

My Wife mows the Lawn and she went from 4 hours with a 60" Graden Tractor to 1.75Hours with a 52" Commercial Zero Turn. Most of my customers have come back and said that it cut about 50% off their mowing time. The first time people mow with a zero turn they do dig up the lawn. Most people need a couple of hours on a machine to get used to it. I don't remember Ever having a customer trade in a Zero Turn on a Tractor. It seems once someone gets a Zero Turn they will Always use a Zero Turn.


#111

Parkmower

Parkmower

EmerichSales said:
My Wife mows the Lawn and she went from 4 hours with a 60" Graden Tractor to 1.75Hours with a 52" Commercial Zero Turn. Most of my customers have come back and said that it cut about 50% off their mowing time. The first time people mow with a zero turn they do dig up the lawn. Most people need a couple of hours on a machine to get used to it. I don't remember Ever having a customer trade in a Zero Turn on a Tractor. It seems once someone gets a Zero Turn they will Always use a Zero Turn.
Click to expand...

Yeah buddy!!!


#112

Ric

Ric

EmerichSales said:
My Wife mows the Lawn and she went from 4 hours with a 60" Graden Tractor to 1.75Hours with a 52" Commercial Zero Turn. Most of my customers have come back and said that it cut about 50% off their mowing time. The first time people mow with a zero turn they do dig up the lawn. Most people need a couple of hours on a machine to get used to it. I don't remember Ever having a customer trade in a Zero Turn on a Tractor. It seems once someone gets a Zero Turn they will Always use a Zero Turn.
Click to expand...

I also started my business in 2006 with a lawn tractor and shortly found out it wasn't the way to go and replaced them with ZTR's. I went from a 46" cut Cub Cadet to a 44" CC on the ZT and cut mowing times by at least 50% and I'll never go back to a tractor. I hope at the start of next season to buy the CC Tank in a 48"


#113

E

earthworm

robert said:
Ric, slow progress is still progress; I offer to you that when you operate a zt in the required manner so as to avoid turf damage that in the end, a quality tractor will mow in a time so close so as to make it virtually a draw.
Tractor one, zero turn, well- zero.
Click to expand...

This, I find to be very hard to believe....again from having watched professionals and from my own experience...the tractor is good in the open field, the ZT is good on the large lawn.
As to "turf damage", its a poor operator who blames his tool...
Robert, you have lost objectiveness and credibility....hatred and fear will do that.


#114

E

earthworm

earthworm said:
This, I find to be very hard to believe....again from having watched professionals and from my own experience...the tractor is good in the open field, the ZT is good on the large lawn.
As to "turf damage", its a poor operator who blames his tool...
Robert, you have lost objectiveness and credibility....hatred and fear will do that.
Click to expand...

In the future, look for agricultural equipment to change, or for the changes to continue.. Someone may just use this zero-turn technology in the huge hay fields...time is money....the future will be interesting.


#115

R

robert

Kevin, you are opting out of the question?

Ric, so we agree on two important points, the first for those that don't recall is that no one can make a true zero turn on turf without causing damage; I will also include that no one can even make a tight turn without damage but thats just me.
The second important point that we both agree on is that very very few, if any operators on zt's are able to mow anywhere near the maximum speed of the machine and the same holds true for any operator on a tractor as you rightly state the conditions and lay of the land determine how fast one is able to mow-in spite of the nonsense that the manufacturers would have us believe.

Am I correct in typing that the only remaining variable is now the difference in turn time? lets leave the 'trimming' out for now-


#116

M

Mad Mackie

And the debate over who struck out at "T" ball continues!!!!
I just ordered an new Hustler X-One with a 54" rear discharge deck for spring 2012 delivery. This machine will be used for cemetery work. The cemetery is over 200 years old, almost as old as this GT verses ZTR thread is getting!!!!
I service machines for several cemeterys, one of which has 5 ZTRs. Unfortunately for me no two are the same make, however fortunately I get to play with them periodically which gives me the ability to evaluate them. This same cemetery had one ZTR 10 years ago and high end GTs, they have made a complete turnaround and now mow more area in about two thirds the time. All their machines were in the $9,000 to $12,000 bracket when new, several were bought used. The Kubota has a stamped deck, not easy to straighten, but a sweet running diesel engine. The rest have fabricated decks, easier to straighten and weld on to repair. They also have two larger loader/hoes and an aircompressor with several jackhammers for winter grave openings. They also have a hydraulic lift for easy cleaning and blade replacement on the machines. I do road service calls and make quick evaluations of the service problem, sometimes they fix, sometimes I fix, sometimes the dealer fixes, all performed in a timely and cost effective manner. As this business has increased for me, I have dropped my problematic lawn customers and kept the nice, good paying customers.
Now you all have an idea possibly about how trivial I feel about what appears to be a never ending back and forth about GTs verses ZTRs and I still have both in my own inventory.
Mad Mackie in CT:biggrin::laughing:


#117

Sammy the Red

Sammy the Red

earthworm said:
In the future, look for agricultural equipment to change, or for the changes to continue.. Someone may just use this zero-turn technology in the huge hay fields...time is money....the future will be interesting.
Click to expand...

I have mowed with a 9 foot mower and could not go fast enough to plug/jam it up.
Had to make wide turns and slow the tractor way down turning so as not to leave bare earth spots.


#118

Ric

Ric

robert said:
Kevin, you are opting out of the question?

Ric, so we agree on two important points, the first for those that don't recall is that no one can make a true zero turn on turf without causing damage; I will also include that no one can even make a tight turn without damage but thats just me.
The second important point that we both agree on is that very very few, if any operators on zt's are able to mow anywhere near the maximum speed of the machine and the same holds true for any operator on a tractor as you rightly state the conditions and lay of the land determine how fast one is able to mow-in spite of the nonsense that the manufacturers would have us believe.

Am I correct in typing that the only remaining variable is now the difference in turn time? lets leave the 'trimming' out for now-
Click to expand...

This user does not have permission to use the HTML BB code.If your tractors are so great and faster than and cut better than a ZTR explain to me why myself and all the Professionals in the Lawn-Care business aren't using them?

I said I agree with you as far as making a zero turn on turf without doing some type of damage but I also know that anyone with any common sense knows you don't operate a zero turn that way, that was not the design or intention of a ztr.

As far as mowing speeds 8 and 10 mph cutting a lawn is too fast on any mower, again any idiot knows you can't mow that fast and get a decent cut, those speeds are for transport only, so if you mow the correct speed for your tractor the ztr will be faster.


#119

E

EmerichSales

robert said:
Kevin, you are opting out of the question?

Ric, so we agree on two important points, the first for those that don't recall is that no one can make a true zero turn on turf without causing damage; I will also include that no one can even make a tight turn without damage but thats just me.
The second important point that we both agree on is that very very few, if any operators on zt's are able to mow anywhere near the maximum speed of the machine and the same holds true for any operator on a tractor as you rightly state the conditions and lay of the land determine how fast one is able to mow-in spite of the nonsense that the manufacturers would have us believe.

Am I correct in typing that the only remaining variable is now the difference in turn time? lets leave the 'trimming' out for now-
Click to expand...
---------
Most Commercial Grade Zero Turns have a higher Blade Tip Speed than a lawn tractor. which means they can mow at faster speed than a lawn tractor.
A Pro Landscaper Can answer the Zero Turn Question better than I. I would agree that you can Not leave one wheel stationary and turn without tearing up the lawn. If you have one wheel turning slightly in reverse and the other forward, you shouldn't tear up the Grass.


#120

Parkmower

Parkmower

EmerichSales said:
---------
Most Commercial Grade Zero Turns have a higher Blade Tip Speed than a lawn tractor. which means they can mow at faster speed than a lawn tractor.
A Pro Landscaper Can answer the Zero Turn Question better than I. I would agree that you can Not leave one wheel stationary and turn without tearing up the lawn. If you have one wheel turning slightly in reverse and the other forward, you shouldn't tear up the Grass.
Click to expand...

Pretty much every person on the ZT side of the argument is a professional mower running commercial equipment.
I run commercial equip and have a residential ZT.


#121

E

earthworm

I, for one ,am an old retired opinionated man..
But <IMO< the ZT is the best type of mower....in the preponderance of cases.... I have but 0.46 of an acre to mow and I must have the exercise....so, its an Ariens with caster wheels for me..
At this point in time... it may change tomorrow.
I have also written that manuals in general are useless.. 90% is either a foreign language(s) and or the safety nazi agenda.....and this is utterly silly.... a waste of good paper...
And to prove that man can design and publish a good manual, try the Roche - Accu Chek site.
IMO, impressive.


#122

R

robert

Ric, if all you want to do is mow and if you mow for a living the zt does offer the advantage of possibly reducing trimming time under some circumstances additionally with some of the larger trailers the zt can be driven up then pivoted sidways on the bed thus taking up less room-but really thats it.

For the average homeowner and the majority of larger property owners a good gt will mow really as fast as any zt, will offer more comfort and of course will offer more capabilities.

Kevin, thanks, would you agree that any zt is very limited in capabilities compared to a gt?


#123

J

jenkinsph

Robert,
What is the blade tip speed on your Cub Cadet?


#124

Ric

Ric

robert said:
Ric, if all you want to do is mow and if you mow for a living the zt does offer the advantage of possibly reducing trimming time under some circumstances additionally with some of the larger trailers the zt can be driven up then pivoted sidways on the bed thus taking up less room-but really thats it.

For the average homeowner and the majority of larger property owners a good gt will mow really as fast as any zt, will offer more comfort and of course will offer more capabilities.

Kevin, thanks, would you agree that any zt is very limited in capabilities compared to a gt?
Click to expand...

robert said:
If all You want to do is mow and if you mow for a living the ztr does offer the advantage?
Click to expand...
I guess my ztr will not push or pull anything? If that's the case why then do they make things like Snow blowers, Snow Plows, Broom attachments, Broadcast Spreaders, Aerators for Zt's and probably a lot of other attachments if you would care too look.
The only limited capabilities here are the capabilities of your mind. :rolleyes:


#125

R

robert

jenkinsph, I don't know that but I am curious perhaps Kevin can help out. What I do know about blade tip speed is that this subject is as misunderstood as the entire zt v tractor topic. Blade tip speed, like forward speed is a marketing gimmick designed to sell equipment to naive homeowners.

I do know this, my poopy Exmark Quest's-with the fancy fab deck- blade tip speed was in the neighborhood of 18,000 and my Cub GT2000 (with the same size deck) cuts the turf in MY yard at least as good, cuts high turf much better and disperses clippings much, much, much better-whether or not this means that the Cub has the same, lower or higher tip speed I don't know, my non pro mind fully comprehends that there are many variables which affect the quality of cut AND what is NOT among these variables is the type of machine or, most importantly; the name brand of the machine-just as I fully comprehend, after owning and using both a zt and now a gt, that any lt/gt will cut the grass in the average homeowners yard in /virtually/ the same amount of time as any zt.

This I found out the hard/expensive way and this is what I am determined to let everyone who is in the market for a new machine know about; no agenda, just facts (with the links).

So again, hopefully Kevin can help out with the tip speed and maybe he can also provide a spec which I have been unable to find, the weight of my great Cub GT2000 with the 42" stamped deck..


#126

Chev

Chev

I know why my Cub Cadet Tank CAN destroy turf.

If I screw up and slam the levers forward, the machine is too heavy to accelerate at that rate. The same power that lets me pull wheelies can be used to destroy turf. Some throttle control goes a long way. I have mowed my new fine fescue twice since I sowed it this fall and so far no damage.

In the lower yard where I am not so worried about turf management, I have some nice beauty rings, but it's my toy and I can play with it how I want. :laughing:


#127

R

robert

Chev, its called the 'Tank' for a good reason :thumbsup: :laughing:


#128

E

earthworm

I see several problems here, one is " a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Another is "scientific data is comprised of many exact anecdotal events, the more input, the better..
But the input must be used very carefully.
I gather that most (but not Robert)agree that the ZT used on 2 plus acres (more or less) is superior to the garden tractor.
I really should not be arguing this as I do not use nor own a ZT.
But I do use a GT , and old one to mow my 0.46 arcre... and I know it is non-scientific to compare a $150 machine to a $1500 one.
Its also wrong to compare an old machine to a new one....
But ,I can think and reason..
The tractor for the open field...
The lawn mower for the large lawn.
The use of the appropriate equipment is common sense.
And the ZT is a lawn mower for large lawns..Interesting that the better ZTs can handle attachments, I did not know this.


#129

Chev

Chev

Any one of the many motorcycles I have owned in my life would flip you on your head, or peel out given a ham fisted approach.

I guess I'm just lucky I don't intentionally try and destroy myself, my equipment, or my lawn.


#130

Sammy the Red

Sammy the Red

exmark_JBJr.jpg


#131

E

earthworm

Sammy the Red said:
exmark_JBJr.jpg
Click to expand...

$20K ?
$21K , a convertible (180 the seat and controls).
I do not see how this could work otherwise..
I think a small snowplow could work,maybe.


#132

Chev

Chev

Sammy the Red said:
exmark_JBJr.jpg
Click to expand...


MMMmmmmmmmmmmmm


#133

Ric

Ric

First off Robert you still are side stepping my question:
If your tractors are so great and faster than and cut better than a ZTR explain to me why myself and all the Professionals in the Lawn-Care business aren't using them?

Here are a few links to check just some of the attachments for the ZTR's and I'm sure if you want to do a search you can come up with plenty more links.


ZTR Home
Zero Turn Mower Attachments
Zero Turn Snow Plows, ZTR plow, ZTR mower plow, ZTR accessories, Zero Turn Attachments


countrymfg_2176_473969.jpgcountrymfg_2176_902264.jpgcountrymfg_2176_1505776.gifa_BigDog-Blower-350.png


#134

R

robert

Ric, so the fact that an aftermarket company makes impliments which are COMPATIBLE with Scag, Hustler and Exmark (and others) carries-in your mind-an approval by the above makers for attachment of these products to their machines? Next I presume you will state that attaching any of these products affects the warranty of the zt in no way at all??

AND, I am not side-stepping your question, perhaps I am not explaining it well enough; pro's have taken favor with the zt for really one reason and that reason is the zt has the -potential- to reduce trimming time, also those lawn care companies with wide trailers are able to load a zt sideways giving them much more room to transport machines.


#135

R

robert

This really is too much fun;

from page 10 of the Exmark Lazer Z owners manual (available on line at the Exmark site)

'Removing standard original equipment parts, or using non-Exmark replacement parts and accessories -may- alter the warranty, traction, and safety of the machine'

This is because the zt is designed to do one thing and one thing only.


#136

R

robert

Scag is even more clear; from the manual of the mighty Turf Tiger, which by the way is rated to tow a massive 250 lbs, pg 20.

Section 8.1 : 'Attachments and accessories manufactured by companies other than Scag Power Equipment are not approved for use on this machine'

From page 88;

'This warranty does not cover any mower that has been subject to misuse, neglect, negligence, or accident, or that has been operated in any way contrary to the instructions specified in the owners manual'

Ric, are you beginning to see the issue with all those great implements made by aftermarket companies none of which are authorized by any maker of zt?


#137

Sammy the Red

Sammy the Red

robert said:
Ric, are you beginning to see the issue with all those great implements made by aftermarket companies none of which are authorized by any maker of zt?
Click to expand...

Ric, I think robert has not done enough research about these. He needs to do more reading.
For if he had .............Oh, never mind.


#138

Ric

Ric

As JD would say I AGREE :rolleyes:


#139

Ric

Ric

robert said:
Scag is even more clear; from the manual of the mighty Turf Tiger, which by the way is rated to tow a massive 250 lbs, pg 20.

Section 8.1 : 'Attachments and accessories manufactured by companies other than Scag Power Equipment are not approved for use on this machine'

< You say the Attachments and accessories manufactured by companies other than the original manufacturer are not approved for use on these machine, so what anything you buy that alters any machine isn't approved.
The other thing is that anyone with common sense who buys any of these implements are going to buy them through their dealer and have them install the equipment. >

From page 88;'This warranty does not cover any mower that has been subject to misuse, neglect, negligence, or accident, or that has been operated in any way contrary to the instructions specified in the owners manual'

< Lets look at the warranty, do you use all the correct oil filters, air filters, gas filters etc. etc. do you use the right grease to grease bearings and so on? My point is that 99% of the people that own mowers buy aftermarket supplies to do maintenance on there mowers and don't use original replacement parts like the owners manual says, so I guess according to you we all void the warranty and god forbid if someone mows on an incline greater than 15 degrees. >

Ric, are you beginning to see the issue with all those great implements made by aftermarket companies none of which are authorized by any maker of zt?

< As far as issues with these aftermarket companies and there implements I see none at all and I think if an individual has a use for any they will probably use them even if they don't have your permission. > :rolleyes:

It all comes down to good old fashion common sense.
Click to expand...


#140

E

earthworm

Robert, since day 18, people/manufacturers have been altering/upgrading equipment..
The warranty ?
why worry about this, in a year or two it will be expired...
The effectiveness of the add-ons ?
I'd not expect the world, but IF used properly, I see little problem.
The big IF is "used properly"..Don't come crying if the aggressive snow blade cannot move 16 tons !
I may buy a walk-behind 32" ZT, I think this is all I need for a 0.46 acre lawn and swamp and I'll keep the MF for snow plowing, if necessary.
The advisability of a home-owner using a ZT for his large lawn ?
very high...9 out of 10 on this forum.


#141

Sammy the Red

Sammy the Red

Ric said:
It all comes down to good old fashion common sense.
Click to expand...

Theres them words again ! --> "Common Sense":thumbsup:
Some don't have much, buy cheap and can't figure out how to operate a Z-turn. :rolleyes:


#142

Sammy the Red

Sammy the Red

earthworm said:
$20K ?
$21K , a convertible (180 the seat and controls).
I do not see how this could work otherwise..
I think a small snowplow could work,maybe.
Click to expand...

Not sure of the price. Ad says 8% discount if you order the bucket and blade at the same time. Controls are mounted on the tillers.


#143

M

Mad Mackie

Were one to have the capability to read all the operators/owners manuals for selfpropelled machines I think that one would find the "unapproved aftermarket accessories/attachments" clause in all of the manuals, it is a legal thing not an anti aftermarket thing.
Most ZTRs have metal protective pieces around the rear mounted engine that are not intended to have a high towing weight capacity. However I have used a ZTR to tow another ZTR with a disabled engine., both machines weighed over 1,100 LBS, but I did it from the front of the ZTR. I have installed heavy duty towing rings on the front of some of my customers ZTRs for this purpose. Several cemeterys whose machines I service are abused by the "bone head" drifters that they hire, and that's all I'll say about that topic!!!!
Mad Mackie in CT:biggrin::laughing:


#144

Ric

Ric

Something that I'm reading in throughout this thread frequently is about the use of a Ztr and there only use is for a large lawn.
I like to know what people consider to to be a large lawn ?


#145

R

robert

Ric, Sammy, earthworm ; to imply that the drive/chasis of a particular zt is able to handle any implement which is advertised as being -compatible- with that mower is irresponsible.


#146

Ric

Ric

robert said:
I am not side-stepping your question, perhaps I am not explaining it well enough; pro's have taken favor with the zt for really one reason and that reason is the zt has the -potential- to reduce trimming time, also those lawn care companies with wide trailers are able to load a zt sideways giving them much more room to transport machines.
Click to expand...

The Professionals all run Ztr's because of the Turning Radius because the Ztr's have the tightest turn a tractor can make. Because of the smaller the turning radius of the Ztr it results in less trimming around obstacles such as trees, fence posts, flower beds, etc. which a lawn tractor cannot provide. A smaller turning radius also results in shorter cutting times which is something a lawn or garden tractor cannot provide. The Maneuverability of the Ztr, saves time, and saves gas and IMO delivers a better cut making it a better choice for the Professional and the Homeowner.


#147

R

robert

Ric, well yes-turning radius does/can/may/might reduce -trimming- time :eek:

One more time-if all you want to do is MOW a larger parcel, which has near golf course putting green terrain, a zero turn MIGHT be the better choice over a gt or cut but for the average homeowner and all larger property owners the single purpose/capability zero turn is NOT the best choice.

Let me now get all you zt'ers shorts really knotted up-an articulated machine, sic-Steiner, is perhaps the most capable of any machine unless one has serious need for heavy duty implements.


#148

Ric

Ric

robert said:
Ric, well yes-turning radius does/can/may/might reduce -trimming- time :eek:

One more time-if all you want to do is MOW a larger parcel, which has near golf course putting green terrain, a zero turn MIGHT be the better choice over a gt or cut but for the average homeowner and all larger property owners the single purpose/capability zero turn is NOT the best choice.

Let me now get all you zt'ers shorts really knotted up-an articulated machine, sic-Steiner, is perhaps the most capable of any machine unless one has serious need for heavy duty implements.
Click to expand...

What is this crap (One more time-if all you want to do is MOW a larger parcel which has near golf course putting green terrain) That statement is one of the most bogus statements in the world and anyone that believes that is as confused :confused2: as you. Once more that's just more of your propaganda that you're spreading.
The Ztr is one of the best mowers available for the homeowner with a small lot, it's one of the best tight area mowers available on the market today because of it's maneuverability, pivoting front ends and floating decks so terrain is actually irrelevant.
Take a look around Robert, the Professionals who service residential owners do 1/4 acre lots and less in sub-divisions everyday with 60" commercial machines. Cub Cadet, Exmark, Grasshopper, Dixie Chopper all 48" to 60" cutting machines.

Time for a reality check Robert. :rolleyes:


#149

Mowerdawg

Mowerdawg

Ric said:
What is this crap (One more time-if all you want to do is MOW a larger parcel which has near golf course putting green terrain) That statement is one of the most bogus statements in the world and anyone that believes that is as confused :confused2: as you. Once more that's just more of your propaganda that you're spreading.
The Ztr is one of the best mowers available for the homeowner with a small lot, it's one of the best tight area mowers available on the market today because of it's maneuverability, pivoting front ends and floating decks so terrain is actually irrelevant.
Take a look around Robert, the Professionals who service residential owners do 1/4 acre lots and less in sub-divisions everyday with 60" commercial machines. Cub Cadet, Exmark, Grasshopper, Dixie Chopper all 48" to 60" cutting machines.


Time for a reality check Robert. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...



Yeah, but if those Hydro Gear pumps or Parker Wheel motors goes out.........ouch! Not something the general public is ready for generally, where pros can perhaps afford a repair with those costs...thoughts?


#150

M

Mad Mackie

Mowerdawg said:
Yeah, but if those Hydro Gear pumps or Parker Wheel motors goes out.........ouch! Not something the general public is ready for generally, where pros can perhaps afford a repair with those costs...thoughts?
Click to expand...

Hydro Gear and similar drive systems are found on many GT and larger tractors in addition to ZTRs. Wheel motors and pumps have been a mainstay on many ZTRs and have proven to be very reliable. In the 70s I had an Economy (Power King) and a Farmall Cub, both with dry disc clutch and manual transmissions, great machines but slower than molasses to mow with unless long straight runs. I bought a Case 446 GT which is hydraulic drive, sold both the Economy and the Farmall Cub and never looked back.
As for robert, he must have a large fleet of both GTs and ZTRs. The many hours mowing with both have provided him with his 100% assured factual information about the characteristics both good and bad about the operation of GTs and ZTRs on every lawn type possible across the entire country.
Now if you gents will excuse, I need to hookup my trailer and use my Scag Tiger Cub to tear up lots of customers turf while cleaning up the last of the slow to fall leaves. I will probably spend 4 hours both today and tomorrow tearing up turf on my ZTR when I really should have used my GT!!!!!!! LOL!!!! HaHa!!!! Seeya!!!
Mad Mackie in CT:biggrin::laughing:


#151

Mowerdawg

Mowerdawg

Mad Mackie said:
Hydro Gear and similar drive systems are found on many GT and larger tractors in addition to ZTRs. Wheel motors and pumps have been a mainstay on many ZTRs and have proven to be very reliable. In the 70s I had an Economy (Power King) and a Farmall Cub, both with dry disc clutch and manual transmissions, great machines but slower than molasses to mow with unless long straight runs. I bought a Case 446 GT which is hydraulic drive, sold both the Economy and the Farmall Cub and never looked back.
As for robert, he must have a large fleet of both GTs and ZTRs. The many hours mowing with both have provided him with his 100% assured factual information about the characteristics both good and bad about the operation of GTs and ZTRs on every lawn type possible across the entire country.
Mad Mackie in CT:biggrin::laughing:
Click to expand...

Ok. Well.....your full of "crap". To quote you.
That's one found.
I'm getting to know the players from the wanta bees. Guess which category you qualify for..........
Next.......


#152

Mowerdawg

Mowerdawg

Mowerdawg said:
Ok. Well.....your full of "crap". To quote you.
That's one found.
I'm getting to know the players from the wanta bees. Guess which category you qualify for..........
Next.......
Click to expand...

Found. Ric, cumon down!


#153

J

jenkinsph

Wow still at it. Having the Deere x749 for over a year now I have found it to be a good flexible multi use machine. The limited cat 1 hitch workds well with most 48 to 60" implements so that working in tight quarters this year was alot easier for me. I spent alot less time with manual work compared to prior years. Being able to run the 48" tiller where the larger compact tractors would not fit was a real time saver for me. Need to build a small landplane/grader for this over the winter which will save me more time next year. Point is the larger garden tractor is great for many of the tasks I do building landscapes on hillsides. It handles mowing decently too, but that isn't why I bought it. If mowing was the most important thing to do with it there are less expensive options that work well enough.

I think the zero turns are fanastic mowers, very manueverable and faster to mow with than the best lawn and garden tractors within their scope of intended use. If I spent alot of time mowing I would have a zero turn to save time and costs. I might also prefer a front mower without wheels if available as I think you would get better results if you could cut the grass before you ran wheels over it. The x749 with wide front and rear tires does mash down alot of grass which I don't care for.

In a nutshell I think there are good reasons to have both a lawn and garden tractor and a good zero turn. I don't think either type will excell at everything though and depending on the jobs you have you may need both to operate efficiently. For the typical homeowner who wants to mow his lawn and reduce the amount of trimming time a zero turn is defintely a good thing to consider.


#154

Mowerdawg

Mowerdawg

Mowerdawg said:
Ok. Well.....your full of "crap". To quote you.
That's one found.
I'm getting to know the players from the wanta bees. Guess which category you qualify for..........
Next.......
Click to expand...

Sorry. To quote Ric. The rest applies.....


#155

Mowerdawg

Mowerdawg

jenkinsph said:
Wow still at it. Having the Deere x749 for over a year now I have found it to be a good flexible multi use machine. The limited cat 1 hitch workds well with most 48 to 60" implements so that working in tight quarters this year was alot easier for me. I spent alot less time with manual work compared to prior years. Being able to run the 48" tiller where the larger compact tractors would not fit was a real time saver for me. Need to build a small landplane/grader for this over the winter which will save me more time next year. Point is the larger garden tractor is great for many of the tasks I do building landscapes on hillsides. It handles mowing decently too, but that isn't why I bought it. If mowing was the most important thing to do with it there are less expensive options that work well enough.

I think the zero turns are fanastic mowers, very manueverable and faster to mow with than the best lawn and garden tractors within their scope of intended use. If I spent alot of time mowing I would have a zero turn to save time and costs. I might also prefer a front mower without wheels if available as I think you would get better results if you could cut the grass before you ran wheels over it. The x749 with wide front and rear tires does mash down alot of grass which I don't care for.

In a nutshell I think there are good reasons to have both a lawn and garden tractor and a good zero turn. I don't think either type will excell at everything though and depending on the jobs you have you may need both to operate efficiently. For the typical homeowner who wants to mow his lawn and reduce the amount of trimming time a zero turn is defintely a good thing to consider.
Click to expand...

I agree. There isn't a one size fits all. If one can afford a good zero turn (not a home improvement box store brand......)(MTD..opps) and are made aware of the potential of costs replacing the hydro units and also told what not to do to them when running them, then sure. A zero make sense in many cases.
Also agree on the front deck. I have an old Gravely Promaster three wheel with a 50" front deck. It goes where no one has gone before. AND cuts the nice part of the lawn beautifully. As do lots of the older mowers with some weight and unstamped decks do......it's articulated chassis is great for odd terrain, and it's fearless. I've also got an older AYP Craftsman with a Onan engine and a deck that weighs in at 200 + lbs that also cuts nicely. As nice as the Bobcat zt225-61 I have. No kidding. Not near as fast, but hey. Really. If you have to go fast, get a Learjet. I enjoy my time on the mowers.


#156

E

earthworm

How many "roberts" do we have ?
And how many earthworms ?
I do not own a ZT, but from what I have read, and its a lot - both good and bad...the caster front wheel machines are the way to go for a great many, small lawns, large lawns..
Digging up turf ?
Scalping ?
I can do this with my LawnBoy two-stroke 21" machine.
Its the operator, not the machine, robert !


#157

J

jenkinsph

earthworm,

I agree about the operator, as I know I have enough knowledge and skill to tear up lawns with little or no power equipment needed.


#158

M

Mad Mackie

Mowerdawg said:
Ok. Well.....your full of "crap". To quote you.
That's one found.
I'm getting to know the players from the wanta bees. Guess which category you qualify for..........
Next.......
Click to expand...
Of course I'm full of crap and that it is why I'm here!!!
I just picked up about 400 bushels of crap from two customers lawns and dumped it in the woods behind their homes so I don't have as much crap in me as usual!!! This is a job that I have done for 20 plus years but now I do it in about half the time with my ZTR as I did with my GTs with collection systems installed on them, but what do I know, I'm full of crap!!!!
I came over to this group looking for some interaction with other Scag ZTR owners but not much in the Scag thread so I got involved with this thread, sorry, my mistake. I'll crap out of here as it is obvious that I am among commercial operators that have more than 20,000 hours of experience and I'm just a green horn with 25,000 hours on many machines since the 70s plus repairing many others!!!
Seeya!!


#159

Ric

Ric

earthworm said:
How many "roberts" do we have ?
Click to expand...

Funny isn't it, one shows up the other disappears. Suppose he'll go away mad too???????????


#160

R

robert

No earthworm it is not the operator but it IS the machine as both Scag and Husqvarna say the zero turn, by design, is prone to turf damage; sorry that this bugs you but this comes from the largest maker of power equipment on the planet and from the maker of very high end zero turns NOT FROM ME.


#161

E

earthworm

robert said:
No earthworm it is not the operator but it IS the machine as both Scag and Husqvarna say the zero turn, by design, is prone to turf damage; sorry that this bugs you but this comes from the largest maker of power equipment on the planet and from the maker of very high end zero turns NOT FROM ME.
Click to expand...
Robert, carefully read this from Scag
Scag Power Equipment - Frequently Asked Questions
My read is that some operators "cowboy" things ... a normal human failing...
What BUGS me is those who cleverly twist the truth.
robert, you can fool some, but not me.
It still stands...its a poor mechanic who blames his tools.


#162

Ric

Ric

earthworm said:
Robert, carefully read this from Scag
Scag Power Equipment - Frequently Asked Questions
My read is that some operators "cowboy" things ... a normal human failing...
What BUGS me is those who cleverly twist the truth.
robert, you can fool some, but not me.
It still stands...its a poor mechanic who blames his tools.
Click to expand...

Good post and a good link earthworm.:thumbsup: Robert is pretty clever when in comes to twisting the truth and spreading propaganda.


#163

Sammy the Red

Sammy the Red

Ric said:
...........:thumbsup: Robert is pretty clever when in comes to twisting the truth and spreading propaganda.
Click to expand...

Amen Brother, Amen !


#164

R

robert

Once again boys NO ONE can make a true zero turn on turf without causing damage and I would only direct you all to the Husqvarna site for the definition of exactly what a 'zero turn' is but for the uninitiated here it is according to the largest maker of power equipment in the world;

"To zero turn pull one lever back beyond neutral while holding the other (that would be the other lever Sammy, Ric, earthworm) slightly ahead of neutral"

So Sammy, Ric, earthworm when you make a zero turn, a true zero turn, one wheel MUST be turning in one direction and one wheel MUST be turning in the other-powered- this MUST cause turf damage which is why Scag says to make the 'T' turn but Scag goes even further in warning all that even these TIGHT turns can cause damage.

Tell us all, if turf damage were not such a widespread problem with the zero turn mower just why do all the makers of this equipment spent so much time telling everyone how to MINIMIZE damage to the grass when using their zt's?

And I hope everyone noticed that Scag is careful to state that 'experienced operators 'CAN-OFTEN' make tight turns without causing damage-that boys says it all.

But there is a much better way for everyone to see for themselves how a zero turn MUST be used in order to avoid tearing up the grass and that is to simply watch a 'pro' next time you have the opportunity-turns are very deliberately made because doing so in any other way will leave union labels EVERYWHERE.

And when everyone really realizes just how a zt must be operated in order to avoid grass damage, just how limited a zt is in being able to multitask and just how limited factory options/accessories, implements are for the zero turn mower EVERYONE should reach the only logical conclusion about a pending decision on which style mower to buy-for the AVERAGE homeowner and even for the majority of larger property owners buying a zero turn mower WILL prove to be a mistake, an expensive-uncomfortable mistake. I found this out the hard way, most others will also.


#165

Sammy the Red

Sammy the Red

Again, Robert has shown us that he was unable to learn how to operate a Z-turn in the proper manner.

He has now embarked upon a Witch Hunt so as to hide the fact of his inability and lack of common sense. :rolleyes:


#166

Ric

Ric

robert said:
Once again boys NO ONE can make a true zero turn on turf without causing damage and I would only direct you all to the Husqvarna site for the definition of exactly what a 'zero turn' is but for the uninitiated here it is according to the largest maker of power equipment in the world;

"To zero turn pull one lever back beyond neutral while holding the other (that would be the other lever Sammy, Ric, earthworm) slightly ahead of neutral"

So Sammy, Ric, earthworm when you make a zero turn, a true zero turn, one wheel MUST be turning in one direction and one wheel MUST be turning in the other-powered- this MUST cause turf damage which is why Scag says to make the 'T' turn but Scag goes even further in warning all that even these TIGHT turns can cause damage.

Tell us all, if turf damage were not such a widespread problem with the zero turn mower just why do all the makers of this equipment spent so much time telling everyone how to MINIMIZE damage to the grass when using their zt's?

And I hope everyone noticed that Scag is careful to state that 'experienced operators 'CAN-OFTEN' make tight turns without causing damage-that boys says it all.

But there is a much better way for everyone to see for themselves how a zero turn MUST be used in order to avoid tearing up the grass and that is to simply watch a 'pro' next time you have the opportunity-turns are very deliberately made because doing so in any other way will leave union labels EVERYWHERE.

And when everyone really realizes just how a zt must be operated in order to avoid grass damage, just how limited a zt is in being able to multitask and just how limited factory options/accessories, implements are for the zero turn mower EVERYONE should reach the only logical conclusion about a pending decision on which style mower to buy-for the AVERAGE homeowner and even for the majority of larger property owners buying a zero turn mower WILL prove to be a mistake, an expensive-uncomfortable mistake. I found this out the hard way, most others will also.
Click to expand...


http://www.scag.com/faq2.html#opturn



Experienced operators of zero-turn riding mowers can often perform the zero-turn maneuver without causing turf damage. However, while zero-turn mowers can turn on a dime (or in very tight circles), it may not always be the best practice to do so on grass. Robert. Even tight turns have the potential to cause turf damage in some situations and conditions. The best way we have found to prevent and/or greatly minimize turf damage is to:
Y-Turn_1.jpg

Use 3-point / Y-turns at the end of a mowing row rather than zero-turns to change direction. It is still a fast maneuver and will reduce the potential of turf damage greatly.

  • 1. At end of mowing path, turn toward next mowing path.
    2. Reverse while turning slightly in opposite direction to align mower with next mowing row.
    3. Proceed into next mowing path.

On "tight" turns, pay special attention to the inside drive wheel. This wheel will naturally spin slower than the outside drive wheel. It is important to keep the inside wheel turning at all times. If the turn is made to cause the inside wheel to stop turning, this is when turf damage can occur.
We have found that by using both of these methods, turf damage is all but a thing of the past. Over a short period of time, it becomes second nature and overall productivity can be increased.
Sammy the Red said:
Again, Robert has shown us that he was unable to learn how to operate a Z-turn in the proper manner.

He has now embarked upon a Witch Hunt so as to hide the fact of his inability and lack of common sense. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Sorry I Quoted you Sammy but it seemed to fit. As earthworm stated, It still stands...its a poor mechanic who blames his tools.


#167

K

KennyV

You Can Not explain, common sense to someone that has none...
That person will Never grasp the obvious, they will never have any desire OR ability to understand....

and like in this thread all that has happened is a complete distraction from the OP's statement "looking for a zero turn"...


#168

R

robert

KennyV, over 3000 hits would seem to prove you wrong, yet again.

Ric, ok, I'll take the position that you now agree with; a zero turn mower must be operated in a very deliberate manner, turning using the time consuming 'T' turn in order to avoid damaging turf.

So now we have agreed on a number of important points; turning properly with a zt takes alot of time, a zt is desgined to mow and mow only-on level ground free of defects (remember this comes from Husqvarna) with the exception of one brand a zero turn is not able to tow much of anything AND the factory options for zero turns are very very limited.

So now all that really is left is to point out to all those who are following that several here have admitted that they use both a zt and tractor but if had to choose one machine type only which to have available for use on their property all would select the much more versatile and robust tractor.

:smile:


#169

Ric

Ric

robert said:
KennyV, over 3000 hits would seem to prove you wrong, yet again.

Ric, ok, I'll take the position that you now agree with; a zero turn mower must be operated in a very deliberate manner, turning using the time consuming 'T' turn in order to avoid damaging turf.

So now we have agreed on a number of important points; turning properly with a zt takes alot of time, a zt is desgined to mow and mow only-on level ground free of defects (remember this comes from Husqvarna) with the exception of one brand a zero turn is not able to tow much of anything AND the factory options for zero turns are very very limited.

So now all that really is left is to point out to all those who are following that several here have admitted that they use both a zt and tractor but if had to choose one machine type only which to have available for use on their property all would select the much more versatile and robust tractor.

:smile:
Click to expand...

Robert I don't agree with you on anything. you have no common sense when it come to using a mower if you did you would know that anyone who mows with a zero turn would never make a zero turn on grass to begin with. Your inability to operate a ZTR and post half truths from Scag and Husqvarna shows everyone your lack of common sense. You talk about this T turnDuh....gifread the post from Scag, it's a Y turn and it's faster than any tractor can make a three point turn and more productive.

You Talk about Husqvarna being the world leader in power equipment and they may well be but what's laughable is they own I believe less than 10% of the US mower market, the company doesn't even actually have an owner it's run by share holders from Sweden .

Agree with you NO, I agree with Kenny, You Can Not explain, common sense to someone that has none...
You will Never grasp the obvious, you will never have any desire OR ability to understand.
Robert I've seen one thing happen on this and a couple of other threads here on the forum that you are currently posting on and that is an individual (YOU) completely ruin his reputation through shear stupidity.


#170

R

robert

Ric, so I needn't bother asking you to be my Facebook bud?:confused3:


#171

Sammy the Red

Sammy the Red

Sammy said:
Again, Robert has shown us that he was unable to learn how to operate a Z-turn in the proper manner.

He has now embarked upon a Witch Hunt so as to hide the fact of his inability and lack of common sense.
Click to expand...

Ric said:
Sorry I Quoted you Sammy but it seemed to fit. As earthworm stated, It still stands...its a poor mechanic who blames his tools.
Click to expand...

Ric, No problem....... As long as it is not distorted and twisted like another has done.


#172

Ric

Ric

Sammy the Red said:
Ric, No problem....... As long as it is not distorted and twisted like another has done.
Click to expand...

Anytime I use or quote someone else it will not be distorted or twisted it will be exact, I don't put words into someone else's mouth like someone else does. :thumbsup:


#173

R

robert

Boys my job here is almost done and having people know that Scag utilizes alot of bandwidth painstakingly telling folks how a zero turn must be operated in order to -minimze- turf damage would be a great place to end this impartial-fact filled thread, fact filled from me anyway.


#174

E

earthworm

robert said:
Ric, so I needn't bother asking you to be my Facebook bud?:confused3:
Click to expand...

I do not think this discussion should become personal.
But, I still cannot figure out Facebook, nor its popularity.
As to the ZT turning performance, and having watched a pro do this ...its so fast and smooth...scaplping - I do not know about this....its a Catholic church lawn and on quite a slope.. from a distance, it looks great..
Again, I feel that a so-called amateur can do nearly as well....And, in my 71 years, I have seen many "amateurs" do as well as the pro.
So.....
which ZT for a large lawn ?
IMO, anyone of ten....Craftsman is out, I cannot trust Sears any more.
I think Toro has a good line up, yes! some prejudice here, as I own a LawnBoy using the Toro personal pace design.


#175

E

earthworm

mikdugal1 said:
I settle on my house this Friday, 3 days !!!. Well I'm going to need a lawn mower. The property is 3.27 acres all open. There are 3 trees, 2 of which I will have to remove. The one tree is to close to the septic tank. The second being two close to the underground power lines... Idiot previous owners. Well I digress..

The yard is open virtually no grade, well a tiny one not enough to call it anything. I'm looking for a zero turn mower and can't figure out what I want. I have been looking online at scag, Husqvarna, Cub Cadet and a few others I cant remember. Is there a guide one would follow to choose. What size deck do I want, how many ponies, diesel or Reg gas..

I look forward to a good discussion.
Click to expand...

Ha!
Spend time planning your dream estate, even secure pro help, this will affect your mower choice.
Very serious about the exterior design - this is a permanent thing - the dream can be possible..The two "tree-mis-plants" result in lost time and money.
And heavens forbid, you may not even need a ZT, as much as I like them.
Good luck

Do you use your email as a reminder for new messages ??
I'm on SaabCentral, another excellent forum, the people there are very smart and humble at the same time - an excellent combo.


#176

Sammy the Red

Sammy the Red

earthworm said:
So.....
which ZT for a large lawn ?
IMO, anyone of ten....Craftsman is out, I cannot trust Sears any more.
I think Toro has a good line up, yes! some prejudice here, as I own a LawnBoy using the Toro personal pace design.
Click to expand...

That would be a whole new thread. Lots of manufactures have jumped on the Z-turn band wagon. And most have different levels of them, from the el cheapos to the very expensive.


#177

J

jenkinsph

Ric said:
Scag Power Equipment - Frequently Asked Questions



Experienced operators of zero-turn riding mowers can often perform the zero-turn maneuver without causing turf damage. However, while zero-turn mowers can turn on a dime (or in very tight circles), it may not always be the best practice to do so on grass. Robert. Even tight turns have the potential to cause turf damage in some situations and conditions. The best way we have found to prevent and/or greatly minimize turf damage is to:
Y-Turn_1.jpg

Use 3-point / Y-turns at the end of a mowing row rather than zero-turns to change direction. It is still a fast maneuver and will reduce the potential of turf damage greatly.

  • 1. At end of mowing path, turn toward next mowing path.
    2. Reverse while turning slightly in opposite direction to align mower with next mowing row.
    3. Proceed into next mowing path.

On "tight" turns, pay special attention to the inside drive wheel. This wheel will naturally spin slower than the outside drive wheel. It is important to keep the inside wheel turning at all times. If the turn is made to cause the inside wheel to stop turning, this is when turf damage can occur.
We have found that by using both of these methods, turf damage is all but a thing of the past. Over a short period of time, it becomes second nature and overall productivity can be increased.




Sorry I Quoted you Sammy but it seemed to fit. As earthworm stated, It still stands...its a poor mechanic who blames his tools.
Click to expand...


These 3 point or "Y" turns are what I use to turn my riding mower around without damaging the lawn. Works well for me and is a quick manuever. That said I don't see how this is accomplished faster with a zero turn than my 4x4ws garden tractor (Deere x749). Not trying to be arguementative but just asking. I have a small 48"deck and in a tight turn leaves about a 12" circle uncut. If I had a wider deck such as the 62" it would leave a 6" circle uncut.

I prefer to not get too close to the tree bark with the mower deck as it is easy to ring the tree with repeated mowings. If I can cut within a couple of inches I can use a light weight string trimmer to finish up. Safer for the trees imo.

Still think a zt is more manueverable than a 2 wheel steer garden tractor by a wide margin.


#178

K

KennyV

All wheel steering is Very handy, and will allow great maneuverability... But if you were to perfect your turns on a ZT mower, you would notice the ZT has just a bit more maneuverability than even the AWS mower...
And Large front mounted decks are easy to negotiate...
:smile:KennyV


#179

R

robert

kenneyV, so the front mount zt is more nimble than the mid mount zt? and if so why don't all the pros use the front mount??


#180

M

Mad Mackie

dollars!!!
I would love to have a front mount and be able to raise the deck for easy cleaning, but it is all about the money. I have ordered a new Hustler X-One with a 54" rear discharge deck for use in an old cemetery, front mount machine is $5,000 more. I have chatted with many cemetery maintenance folks and found that they will not buy ZTRs that have hydrostatic drive systems. The problem is that in cemeterys there is much more maneuvering of the machine than in normal lawn care and overheating which leads to other problems shortens the life of the machine.


#181

J

jenkinsph

MadMackie,
I would think the hydro would be the best for cemetary work, but you need a high quality drive system as well. I do lots of close quarters work with no overheating on any of my equipment.


#182

M

Mad Mackie

jenkinsph said:
MadMackie,
I would think the hydro would be the best for cemetary work, but you need a high quality drive system as well. I do lots of close quarters work with no overheating on any of my equipment.
Click to expand...

Cemeterys are a unique situation as most had no plan to align the lots and stones to make for easier mowing. The cemetery assoc that I am an officer of has a newer part and we have aligned the lots and give specific measurements to the gravestone folks and we encourage the use of flat surface markers which is popular with the costs of everything climbing and much easier to mow over. While mowing the old part, 200 years old, the mower direction levers are in almost constant varying motion for hours at a time and a rear discharge deck is mandatory. Not many companies offer rear discharge decks, so this limits the selection of machines.
Mad Mackie in CT:biggrin::laughing:


#183

M

Mad Mackie

Cemeterys generally don't put lots of hours on machines but those hours demand more of the machines than usual. Cemetery operators also tend to be more conservative than most and keep machines longer than usual unless the machine is a "lemon" then it is history. In 1994 my cemetery folks bought a new JD ZTR for $10,000, it turned out to be a problematic and difficult machine to operate. In 1996 it was traded in for an Excel 260 with a $3,500 trade in allowance toward another $10,000 machine resulting in a sizable economic loss to the cemetery assoc. Now the Excel and the two Gravelys are getting tired so we decided to order a new Hustler X-One with a 54" rear discharge deck. I am the one who has been pushing the purchase of the new machine, so if it turns out to be a problematic machine, I will get the blame, but I get to repair the machines so I have a deeper understanding of their needs and weak points !!!! However I have done my homework on this machine and I'm confident that it will be a great performer and a time saver once the operators get accustomed to it. We will choose the 500 HR/5 year warranty option as the current machine gets 100 -120 HRs yearly put on it. with the nasty little hills and bumps we go thru blades by the case and I don't see that changing with the new machine. Trimming takes two men a full 9 hour day so we go thru trimmer string by the large roll.
Mad Mackie in CT:biggrin::laughing:


#184

R

robert

MM, gas-diesel or propane?


#185

M

Mad Mackie

Hi robert and group,
Having worked on many diesels over the years I have a soft spot for them. However the only engine option for the Hustler machine that has been selected is a 24 HP Kawi and I'm OK with this model Kawi. Small diesels have come a long way, there was a time when just changing fuel filters invoked a fuel system repriming, but things have changed to reduce the maintenance time and effort required to keep them running. Liquid cooling systems are OK as long as the operator(s) respect their need for more attention than an air cooled engine generally needs.
Propane fueled machines have their place but not in the wide open.
So generally, the air cooled gasoline engine is the least needy particularly with the introduction of some ethanol neutralizing additives now on the market that do the job as advertised.
Mad Mackie in CT:biggrin::laughing:


#186

K

KennyV

I think you will get a Lot of years from your X-One... They have plenty going for them...
Did you get the Flex forks, they go a Long way to soften the shock of irregular mowing conditions... Not Just for the operator, but also for the tractor...

Myself I am more into Hustler's diesel powered front-deck mower series, but with your narrow rear discharge requirement, I think you have a tractor that will stay with you... :smile:KennyV


#187

K

KennyV

Mad Mackie said:
....problem is that in cemeterys there is much more maneuvering of the machine than in normal lawn care and overheating ...
Click to expand...

The over heating can be eliminated with a large hydraulic oil reservoir, I have over 4 gallons and the ZT pumps & motors have never had heat problems...
also have a Cool running 4 cylinder Kubota liquid cooled diesel engine..

But your right about $$$, initially a bit pricey, but in the long run, can be a very affordable mower... :smile:KennyV


#188

M

Mad Mackie

Hi KennyV,
Usually sleeping at this time but coughing woke me up, getting over a bug!
I have a friend who is a Hustler dealer in Wisconsin and we have chatted about machines. He suggested that I not get the sprung forks as they have a tendancy to sag after a while. I would love to buy the Hustler from him but the cemetery assoc by-laws specify in state procurement unless not available. We have done business with many local equipment dealers over the years most of which are no longer in business. We actually still have two walk behind Gravelys and a Gravely rider. We used a particular Simplicity rider that worked fairly well for many years. In the 80s this model Simplicity was discontinued and the last two were stolen from the storage shed. A local Gilson dealer sold us two riders that didn't make it thru one season, and back to the Gravelys, I was on active duty with the US Army at the time but had I been home the Gilsons would not have been purchased. We had a local family that did the mowing for years with cemetery owned equipment. When the father died, his wife and son continued for several years then the wife died and the son gave it up. During their time they had many cemetery accounts and did a fine job for reasonable prices. Now the cemetery assoc president, his two sons and their children do the mowing. But our mainstay machine the Excel 260K is getting tired so we have ordered the Hustler X-One. I need to bring the Gravelys home and service them, the walk behinds are manual start with a strap, and if you know Gravelys you know that the strap start units are from the 50s-60s!! One gets a workout on the Gravelys in a 200 year old cemetery. We did find several gravestones that date farther back than that but the assoc was formed in 1806. Both my father-in law and mother in-law and her parents had been inolved with this cemetery, my wife has been the treasurer since 1970.
Anyway, I just took a dose of cough meds and going to try to get back to sleep!!
Mad Mackie in CT


#189

Ric

Ric

I was just wondering if this tractor would be sufficient for mowing 3.27 it has a 54' deck. I can buy it for like $1400.

Engine Brand Name Kohler
Cylinders 2
Horsepower 20 / 14.9
Horsepower RPM 3600
Torque 33.3 / 45.1
Cooling Air
Bore 77 / 3.03
Stroke 67 / 2.6
Displacement 0.6
Compression Ratio 8.5:1
Fuel Type Gas
Engine Model Code CV20
Aspiration Natural
Carburetion Type Carburetor
Transmission Type Hydrostatic
Number Of Speeds 1 / 1
Maximum Forward Speed 6.5 / 10.5
Clutch Type Not Applicable
Number of Ranges 1
PTO Type Independent
PTO Location Mid
Length 6.33
Wheelbase 50.6 / 1285.2
Turning Radius 0.5
Length (ft/ft) 6
Length (ft/in) 4
Weight Standard
Fuel Capacity 4.5 / 17
Wheels Composition Steel
Front Tire Diameter 16
Rear Tire Diameter 23
Front Tire Width 6.5
Rear Tire Width 9.5
Front Tire 16 x 6.5
Rear Tire 23 x 9.5
Tread Type Turf
Rear Brake Type Dry Disc
Hour Meter Standard
Fuel Level Warning Type Gauge
Driveline Type 4X2
Steering Type Manual
Platform Layout Open
Headlights Standard
Mower Deck Width 54
Cruise Control Standard


#190

R

robert

Ric, whats the drive on this mystery machine-is it a real heavy duty large capacity oil unit-that will run very cool - or the typical sealed consumer drives with sintered gears found on so many zero turns? Are the pulleys composite/plastic like many zt makers are using or steel and are the spindles cast iron, cast aluminum, zirks, ??

The machine certainly would be able to mow the lot size you reference, but of course the high ground speed you state is moot as some here have correctly typed that the lay of the land is the determinator of just what forward speed can be used-as for durability machine X would certainly last as long as all entry level zt units and if you are buying it-new-? at a big box store you would have the added benefit of being able to use it for about 30 days to decide if the product does fit the bill-sounds as though you can't go wrong.

My advice, if this is a new unit, is to have the machine delivered, and mow baby mow THEN in a few weeks from another return friendly source have a zero turn of your choice, entry level as this is of course, delivered and see once and for all the severe limitations, the body pounding ride of the zt and the very deliberate manner in which a zt mower must be operated so as to avoid turf damage.

Then you will realize that for the average homeowner and even the larger property owner the most intelligent and cost effective machine to have is the tractor, that is of course if one is able to have one machine only............


#191

Ric

Ric

I guess I didn't make this real clear, I'm not buying the machine to use myself you can forget that cause I'll never mow with another tractor because it's a waste of time. It's not new buy any means, it was purchased at the beginning of 2011. The guy used the machine to mow just less than one acre of lawn and occasionally a five acre field where he has his horses. I hope to pick the thing up cheap and redo so things and sell for a little profit. I look up the spec's for the machine and posted those to give people an idea of what the machine is. I just wanted to get some response to the spec's and find out what people thought as to give me an idea of what to offer the guy. BTW I don't buy anything without zirks.


#192

E

earthworm

A turf-damage solution...use a two wheeled mower with a gyro for the necessary balance. For stability, when at a stand-still, rather than a caster wheel, a ball wheel - which would quickly become clogged and immobile with mud and grass....is this a dream or a nightmare ?
Mowing a cemetery would be one difficult task - all those obstacles.
Make everything round in graveyard of the future and use a properly sized ZT..
Time is money, and the design of the plot can lead to savings...
Hard , very hard to understand why anyone would argue against a ZT..
I may well retire the tractor from mowing my 0.46 acre lawn and just use the LawnBoy - one of them.
The tractor is too inefficient, too wasteful.


#193

R

robert

earthworm, your classification of being inefficient and wastefull fits the zt to a 'T' as the zero turn is purpose built for mowing and mowing only now buying a machine like a zt is truly irresponsible, financially and environmentally any just why my subterranean friend have so many people gone on record as stating they would choose a tractor over a zt if only one type machine could be used on their property??? :eek:


#194

M

Mad Mackie

Good morning robert,
I suggest that you buy a real GT and a real ZT, operate them commercially for five years, keep records, and then report you findings back to this group.
Some of us have both types of machines and I wouldn't be without my GT, but I wouldn't be without my ZT as my ZT is my money maker. In fact I'm looking at another ZT for myself, it may be a Hustler having checked them out and having ordered one for the cemetery assoc.
Mad Mackie in CT:biggrin::laughing:


#195

E

earthworm

robert said:
earthworm, your classification of being inefficient and wasteful fits the ZT to a 'T' as the zero turn is purpose built for mowing and mowing only now buying a machine like a ZT is truly irresponsible, financially and environmentally any just why my subterranean friend have so many people gone on record as stating they would choose a tractor over a ZT if only one type machine could be used on their property??? :eek:
Click to expand...

A dedicated machine cannot be wasteful and inefficient., A man can be this way, and all too often is.
After 71 years, I do know myself...a little.
Roughly 10 to 20% chose the tractor, if I am to understand the people on this forum....which I do have trouble with..
read this again >
For my 0.46 acre "lawn", the tractor is too inefficient.. I'll use a walk behind 30 inch with caster wheels ( a manual version of the ZT ).
If I had a lawn of 2.3 acre then I'd spring for a larger ZT.....a Cadet 48" or so...

Common sense - buy and use the properly sized and type of machine for the task at hand..

Your under-the-earth friend, Adrian

To add : I've determined that the ZT is the way to go for most(those who qualify).....simply by reading the many posts from knowledgible ZT operators.


#196

Chev

Chev

Efficiency is measured in many ways.

My old Snapper RER used measurably no gasoline, but destroyed disks when pulling a utility cart an required 8+ hours to mow my lawn.

My 48" Tank uses gas proficiently, yet pulls the same cart with no drama and lets me mow in 1-2 hours.

In 6 hours I make...... Well let's not get into that, but more than enough to buy 2 gallons of gas.

Therefore I save money by saving time.


#197

R

robert

Mad Mackie, let me ask you the question, you can only have one mower to be used on your property; which one is it going to be?

Once again gentlemen, the professional user and ONLY the professional user will benefit from the very limited benefits of the zero turn, time is money-and as I have repeatedly stated my Exmark did mow faster just not fast enough to make any real difference in time. ; but for all others buying a zero turn is a huge mistake compared to a quality GT which will give far more capability and with, say, all wheel steering, will maneuver every bit as fast in the end....
Get an articulated mower, ie Steiner, and I am confident in saying that you would kick any zt's butt and leave no tracks to boot.

A tractor will outlast a zero turn by at least a factor of 2:1


#198

Chev

Chev

I wonder who would win if I chained my tank to your GT2000 an we had a pull off.


#199

Ric

Ric

Chev said:
I wonder who would win if I chained my tank to your GT2000 an we had a pull off.
Click to expand...

The Gt 2000 wouldn't stand a chance.


#200

Chev

Chev

Ric said:
The Gt 2000 wouldn't stand a chance.
Click to expand...

But Zero Turn Riders are not as good at anything?


#201

J

jenkinsph

robert said:
A tractor will outlast a zero turn by at least a factor of 2:1
Click to expand...


I suspect that if you pull your 1800 lb trailer around with your mower it won't last long.


#202

M

Mad Mackie

robert,
To answer your question to me, I need to state a few things up front that you must understand.
I have Ingersoll garden tractors, these tractors have ground engaging attachments, snow blowers, plows, mower decks, tractor powered collection systems among other attachments. What I like most about them is 8.00X16 rear tires that are 32" high and their hydraulic drive systems, not hydrostatic, hydraulic!!!!
In 2008 when I bought my Scag Tiger cub ZTR, I was on the fence between a new Ingersoll 4021PS GT with a 48" deck and the Scag Tiger Cub 48" deck. My Scag with a Scag collection system was $9,700 and the Ingersoll was $11,500 with 48" deck and a collection system called a Hydrabagger. Having owned and operated Ingersoll GTs for many years, and operated/serviced many other brands, I would have no other than an Ingersoll. Wide rear tire GTs give a nice ride but sacrifice traction. So when I make this next comment you will know what level it is from. If I had only one choice of machine, it would be an Ingersoll 4021PS GT with a 48" snow blower, 48" deck, 54" plow, and collection system, all of which I have except the tractor is a 1989 4018 Ingersoll with 2,300 hours that I repowered at 2,000 hours. We have been here in the same home for 42 years, 1.5 acres to mow and a large circular crushed stone driveway. I started with two stroke Lawn Boy 21" mowers and a four wheel drive truck with a snow plow, but as I got older I started working smarter rather than harder.
Mad Mackie in CT:biggrin::laughing:


#203

R

robert

Mad Mackie, tnks; you, like all others who have answered the question would choose the tractor.

jenkinsph-unless your X749 has the K92 or equivalent drive-which does yours have- your machine would not make it long trying to move the load mentioned-a new or equivalent to the X749 cost what these days?


#204

M

Mad Mackie

I was at my local dealer yesterday getting some parts, they sell Scag, Simplicity, Toro. We got chatting and I asked the question and ZTs outsell LTs, GTs, and CUTs by 3 to 1.
In season, I'm on call with about 20 customers, this is a service that I have provided since cell phones were reduced in size. Most of these folk have large areas that they mow and all have ZTs and some have full size tractors for snow removal, light farming, etc. It all depends on one's needs, wants, available dollars, and time.
No doubt that the OP quickly got disgusted with all this back and forth and went away. 22 pages talking about apples and oranges is a bit much. And with this, I have an appointment with my Hustler dealer who is about one hour away and I plan to buy an 2nd ZT today for spring delivery along with the one on order for the cemetery assoc.
Seeya
Mad Mackie in CT:biggrin::laughing:


#205

E

earthworm

Response 204 contradicts 203, robert.
I believe 204, rather than 203 ; which, IMO, is a spin, even a lie.
Politicians do the same and should be ashamed of themselves.:mad:
Too bad that the OP does not have the time nor patience to read all these posts.
I'd like to see a better way of doing this....more GOOD words per mm.


#206

J

jenkinsph

Robert,
My 2011 x749 has the aws version of the K92 with rear 540 pto option. I don't try to pull heavy loads with my GT, thats what I have three tractors for. The x749 is used for close up finish work where the larger tractors can't fit easily. Taming new lawn areas, grading, contouring, and mowing on the steep slopes is why I have the x749. On my own lawn at home I use the L130 mower and have it ready to go with sharp blades, works decent enough for me.

What I find interesting about you and your lawn mower is it appears about all you can do is mow with it. You keep criticizing the zero turns being purpose built for mowing only, don't really see how your CC 2000GT can do more than the zt mowers you flame. What you have is a riding lawn mower and imo a nice one you really need to try to enjoy what you have and quit protesting so loudly.


#207

Chev

Chev

Mmm, 3ph and a rear PTO.

Without that, it is just a mower. I can't even see why one would have a tractor without a front loader bucket. But I'm spoiled to my pop's Ford 1600.


Everything else is a mower with a pull cart, aerator, or maybe a spreader.


#208

J

jenkinsph

Chev said:
Mmm, 3ph and a rear PTO.

Without that, it is just a mower. I can't even see why one would have a tractor without a front loader bucket. But I'm spoiled to my pop's Ford 1600.


Everything else is a mower with a pull cart, aerator, or maybe a spreader.
Click to expand...



Pretty much my thoughts too, I prefer not to have a fel on my tractors as it is in the way and makes them more cumbersome. The 110tlb is what I use for fel work, that and a wheelbarrow.:biggrin:


#209

B

Black Bart

jenkinsph said:
Robert,
My 2011 x749 has the aws version of the K92 with rear 540 pto option. I don't try to pull heavy loads with my GT, thats what I have three tractors for. The x749 is used for close up finish work where the larger tractors can't fit easily. Taming new lawn areas, grading, contouring, and mowing on the steep slopes is why I have the x749. On my own lawn at home I use the L130 mower and have it ready to go with sharp blades, works decent enough for me.

What I find interesting about you and your lawn mower is it appears about all you can do is mow with it. You keep criticizing the zero turns being purpose built for mowing only, don't really see how your CC 2000GT can do more than the zt mowers you flame. What you have is a riding lawn mower and imo a nice one you really need to try to enjoy what you have and quit protesting so loudly.
Click to expand...
You are correct anything that can not use attachments is just a riding mower.
One machine can not do all things well that is why most people have more than one.
I mow with a ZTR
Pull a Roller/Aerator/sprayer/fertilizer spreader/dethatcher with my JD 180
The JD 430 in this photo is used for snow blower/pulling a landscape box/shaft driven rear mount tiller plus can be used for pulling all of above plus it has a 60" mower deck.

Roberts CC is not a GT regardless of what MTD says it is just a mower like a ZT but not nearly as good or as fast as the ZTR

Attachments





#210

Sammy the Red

Sammy the Red

We don't want a loader on the front of the 1066 or 856.
Loader work is kept to the Cat and the Boomer.


#211

R

robert

BlackBart, welcome back; you also typed that if only one style could be used by yourself it would be the tractor also, right?

My Cub GT 2000, while perhaps not a true GT, is certainly alot more capable-because it has the real deal GT drive- to do other things than simply mow than 99% of all the uber dollar zippidy doo da's some of you boys have-you all can tow how much again?

And once again, will some of you bucket heads read the op's post 16.


#212

J

jenkinsph

Robert,

This is getting pathetic, looking at post 16 where the OP mentions the 445 and 455 these two Garden Tractors are the real thing, mid and rear pto, 3ph, two hydraulic valves, attachments including a fel, much faster than yours. Again outclasses your mower.


#213

R

robert

jenkinsph-the purpose for asking some to view that post was/is to show that the op raised the tractor as a possibility for his use-will we reach 4,000 hits today?


#214

J

jenkinsph

Well my apologies in that case, I did consider looking for a used 445 -455 gt when shopping last year but couldn't find anything in my locale. If I was looking for a mower and had the opportunity to buy one of these with the new property I would definately give it some consideration. Particularly if the guy had some attachments with it that I wanted or deemed needed to make onsite lawn improvements.


Robert, at any rate enjoy your mower thats what it is all about.


#215

R

robert

Thats been one of my major points all along-and this is perhaps a good point to end.


#216

U

Uncle Nabob

I skipped over a lot of comments, so I may have missed some that were really great. I have about 4.5 acres of grass, mostly flat. One area is steep enough that the little 1110 Ford tractor used to crab across the slope with a 4' finishing mower behind (with me sitting on the fender). Along my driveway, it is so steep I can't mow it even with a push mower--I tried. So, last year I bought a Cub Cadet Zero Force 60 to replace the worn out, 25 year old tractor and finishing mower. Now it takes less than 2 hours to mow every square inch. It sticks like glue on the steep areas, and the positive front steering always points the tractor where I want to go, even on the steep areas. As for turning, it may be one of the few zero turns that does not eat turf. With the technology of the steering wheel the inside wheel on a turn is always both forward or backward in a zero turn, hence no damage. I drive with one hand most of the time with my foot on the accelerator all the way down at about 8mph. I only have to slow down if I hit really tall, thick crabgrass or bermuda grass. It's a semi-pro model & it won't last forever, but it's a lot better than the entry level machines they sell at the big box stores.


#217

R

robert

Uncle, You and I both know that to see true value one has to be color blind. :wink:


#218

M

mikdugal1

I'm back guys. Wow were you all busy.. I'm getting 4800 back on my tax refund and going to put it to a mower. It's been offly warm here in pennsylvania getting time for a mower.. So I'm probably going to go with a John Deere. Paying for paint here.. I'm looking at the ztrak z465 but they are offering a deal on the 600 series.. you can save 500 which will actually bring the z665 100 dollars cheaper then the 465.. What do you guys think


#219

Parkmower

Parkmower

i think you'll enjoy that mower:thumbsup:


#220

E

earthworm

mikdugal1 said:
I'm back guys. Wow were you all busy.. I'm getting 4800 back on my tax refund and going to put it to a mower. It's been offly warm here in Pennsylvania getting time for a mower.. So I'm probably going to go with a John Deere. Paying for paint here.. I'm looking at the ztrak z465 but they are offering a deal on the 600 series.. you can save 500 which will actually bring the z665 100 dollars cheaper then the 465.. What do you guys think
Click to expand...

I wish these marketers could dispense with "bargains, deals, freebies", and be open and honest.
Questions :
lawn size, trees and gardens, hilly or flat ?
And exercise, do you need or enjoy this ?
This warm weather is a bit scary, I hope its not a hot and dry summer, but we could do with less rain here in PA(York County)..


#221

Ric

Ric

robert said:
Uncle, You and I both know that to see true value one has to be color blind. :wink:
Click to expand...

Robert, Good answer :thumbsup: and so true.


#222

J

jenkinsph

Ric,
It's been a nice and quiet two months hint hint.


#223

M

mikdugal1

I'm going with the z465 from john deere. Shopper around and I'm buying it from a pottstown pa dealer. Got a qoute of 5145.24 tax and delivery included.


Thank you everyone for your input.


#224

Parkmower

Parkmower

Nice!!! I'm gonna say it's a safe bet that you'll love this machine.


#225

M

mikdugal1

Thank you. I'm excited. I can only imagine my first time mowing with it I'll tear up the grass around turns. Just because it does 8 mph doesn't mean I have to turn at 8mph


#226

TinMan1

TinMan1

I run John Deere and Exmark, The JD EZ series is a good inexpensive mower and cuts almost as good as the 7 Irons. I wouldnt think you would need true Commercial. I still use a EZ425 as a back up and it still cuts great for $4k


#227

M

mikdugal1

TinMan1 said:
I run John Deere and Exmark, The JD EZ series is a good inexpensive mower and cuts almost as good as the 7 Irons. I wouldnt think you would need true Commercial. I still use a EZ425 as a back up and it still cuts great for $4k
Click to expand...

Thats cool thanks. The previous owner had a JD 445 lawn tractor with a 62 inch deck. This should match up well


#228

E

earthworm

robert said:
Ric, so the fact that an aftermarket company makes impliments which are COMPATIBLE with Scag, Hustler and Exmark (and others) carries-in your mind-an approval by the above makers for attachment of these products to their machines? Next I presume you will state that attaching any of these products affects the warranty of the zt in no way at all??

AND, I am not side-stepping your question, perhaps I am not explaining it well enough; pro's have taken favor with the zt for really one reason and that reason is the zt has the -potential- to reduce trimming time, also those lawn care companies with wide trailers are able to load a zt sideways giving them much more room to transport machines.
Click to expand...

Robert, I am trying to figure out what you are ..
Your profession ?
As far as it goes for me - I am just an opinioned old fool..MOA
Now we will see how smart you really are.


#229

E

earthworm

robert said:
Uncle, You and I both know that to see true value one has to be color blind. :wink:
Click to expand...

Why ?
I must be missing something.
That CC Force must be one good machine..maybe the very best to date.


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