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I have a Toro 190cc. It won't start when pulling the cord.

It will start if I spray carb cleaner in the carb and pull the cord. And, it will continue to run fine until I turn it off.

But, it will not start by just pulling the cord. I must spray the carb cleaner to start it.

Please post the mower model and serial numbers, so we can see what you are talking about.

Yes, the Toro is a 20333 Personal Pace. Serial number is: 10 02 16 56 60304. I can take and add some pictures if needed.

That is not the serial number, please check the decal on the deck. That model used two different engines.

I took that number off of this sticker.

That is an engine number which I don’t know how to decipher. I use the one one the deck. 20333 will be on top of decal and serial number will be below it.

This is the only other sticker I could find.

Nope, that is the bar code. Next to the rear adjuster or under the bagger cover.

Okay, that info helped! Here it is.

Ok, that was what I needed. Know that I know which carb we are dealing with, I think your problem is a swelled float needle seat. This is not allowing enough fuel to enter the float bowl, which will not allow it to choke or prime properly. I suggest you clean and rebuild the carb with these parts. Rebuild kit part number 498260. Here is the procedure I use and recommend. Hope this helps.

Needle and seat replacement.
Remove the carb, and then remove the float bowl. Check the float bowl jet (which is the bowl screw) and make sure the jets both horizontal and vertical are clean and open. Tip the carb upside down and remove the float pin and float with needle attached. Look in the float needle passage and you should see the red float seat at the bottom of the passage. This is where a #5 crotchet hook would come in handy as you need to remove this seat. If you have no hook, but compressed air, you can blow through the fuel inlet and try to pop the seat out. Put your thumb over the passage to prevent the seat from flying who knows where. No air or hook try bending a stiff paper clip to dig the seat out.
I would either give the carb a good 24 hour soaking or have it ultrasonically cleaned at this time.
With the seat out clean the passage way with carb cleaner. Now you must find a drill bit slightly smaller than the passage way, to be used to press in the new seat. Apply a very, very small amount of a very light lube to the new seat. 3-1 oil or lighter, to help seat it better. Carefully insert the new seat in the passage way with the rings on the seat down toward the carb body. Slowly and carefully force the seat down with the back end of the drill bit. Once it is seated, check to see that it did not flip and the rings are up. Next check to make sure that the float does not have any liquid in it. If it does, replace. If everything looks correct, attach the new needle to the float and install with the float pin centered. It everything is correct, the float should seat level to the carb body, when looking at it upside down. If everything looks good reattach the float bowl, making sure that both the bowl gasket and the nut gasket seal properly. Reinstall on the engine and test unit. Remember to have patience and take your time. Good luck, but I don't think you'll need it.
PS: On the side of some Tecumseh carbs you will find a plastic cover. Under this cover will be an idle jet. Remove it and check to see that the jet is open both horizontally and vertically. You should be able to push the old float needle wire through the vertical opening.

Wow, thank you very much. One final detail to be sure it doesn't change anything, I can let the mower run for, let's say 30 minutes, then turn it off. It's good and warm now, and, I have the same problem. It doesn't matter how long the engine runs. And when I engage the blade, it does it well.

Your engine is 128T02-3256-B1.

It looks like you have a primer bulb on this engine. I'm sure you are, but if you aren't pressing that, your problem is there.
I personally do not think it is a needle and seat issue, because you said that it runs fine until shut off. In my experience, an engine with a swollen needle and seat will run for just a short time before dying. Because it is running fine once on, I suspect a primer issue.

If you have a primer bulb do this:

Take off the air cleaner (one 8mm bolt at the top of the airbox, or use flathead)

Press the primer bulb a lot of times while looking down the throat of the carburetor. If you see gas start to accumulate in the carburetor the primer is working correctly. If you do not, the primer isn't working correctly. Of course if this is working and gas pools in the carburetor wipe away any excess gas for safety reasons.

I bet you'll find this isn't working.

If it doesn't have a primer let me know. Also let me know the result of that experiment and I can help you more.

In the ten years I've had this mower, I never noticed a primer bulb. I will look for it.

BlufftonJim said:

In the ten years I've had this mower, I never noticed a primer bulb. I will look for it.

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Nevermind I'm sure there isn't one if you haven't found one then. It would be noticable. Bright red, on the left of the front of the engine on the air cleaner. Maybe your auto choke isn't working then. Or maybe it is the needle and seat after all. I could be totally wrong. I just think it wouldn't be that because it stays running.

Pull your air filter and look at the choke plate. It should be totally closed when engine cold. If not...1. Air Vane is out of adjustment. 2. Air vane spring is bad.3. Tstat is bad. 4. Lots of crud in there keeping air vane from moving freely.

dougand3 said:

Pull your air filter and look at the choke plate. It should be totally closed when engine cold. If not...1. Air Vane is out of adjustment. 2. Air vane spring is bad.3. Tstat is bad. 4. Lots of crud in there keeping air vane from moving freely.

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That's what I was thinking, since there is no primer bulb and it runs good once started.

Yes, it could be any of those, but I do over 100 of those engines a year and the most common problem is the float seat. If it hasn’t been looked at in 10 years I’m sticking to the seat.

Newj day! Air Vane is a new term for me. I will check out all the ideas.

Rivets said:

Yes, it could be any of those, but I do over 100 of those engines a year and the most common problem is the float seat. If it hasn’t been looked at in 10 years I’m sticking to the seat.

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Fair enough. Took one apart today just for maintenance and hard starting and the seat was slightly swollen. Fixed that. No harm in checking the needle and seat.

Disassemble it according to this video
If you don't have the locking pliers they use on the fuel line then just drain what you can first and be ready to clean up a little spill
If you don't have SAE hex sockets equivalent metrics will work: 6mm for 1/4 in, 8mm for the filter housing and 10mm for the carburetor mounting to the engine. You can use a ratchet instead of a screw driver.
When you get it to the point that the float bowl is off but the float is still in, hold it up side down and observe the float. Make sure it is 'level' to the rest of the carburetor body, NOT like this: (or the other way around sticking up)

If it's not level like that then there's your problem. Bad news: It's really expensive to fix. $1.00 Needle and seat. (Kidding its cheap and easy).
An air vane is a piece of plastic under the blower housing that is pushed by the 'wind' generated by the spinning engine and when pushed it adjusts the carburetor to get the right RPMs.

This engine has an internal governor system, not an air vane governor. On an AutoChoke system it does have an air vane, but this one is used to partially open the choke when the engine is starts. The the AutoChoke thermocoupler, mounted behind the muffler, will fully open the choke as the engine warms up.

Rivets said:

This engine has an internal governor system, not an air vane governor. On an AutoChoke system it does have an air vane, but this one is used to partially open the choke when the engine is starts. The the AutoChoke thermocoupler, mounted behind the muffler, will fully open the choke as the engine warms up.

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Thank you, I've always wondered why these have an air vane and an internal governor and the thermocoupler. I figured the air vane and internal governor just worked together for some reason.

Everything has been described clearly. Today I have removed the carb and currently cleaning it. I'm going to need to get a gasket kit as soon as I determine the nmber. I will update all.

No kits in this town! I will have to order and wait. :-(

Awesome. Sorry you gotta wait. Was the seat swollen (float not level)?

UPDATE:
I’m a total newbie at small engines, and I’ve had a lot fun with this. I received the carb rebuild kit and cleaned/rebuilt the carburetor. I put all together, and as I was doing that, discovered there isn’t any air vane spring. That was most likely the issue all along. My inexperience kept me from knowing that. The spring wasn’t there when I took the carb off. I have no idea how it ever came off, when, or where.

This town/region stinks at service/supply, and the virus has nothing to do with never finding a spring. I ordered the spring and it is due to be here tomorrow.

However, I have another issue. The bowl will not stop leaking. I replaced the gasket to the jet, and have worked with the jet bolt, and no luck. The leak is clearly from the jet bolt, as I dry if off, and gas starts accumulating on the bolt, then drips.
Any advice?????

Leaking where - the bowl bolt? Make sure fiber gasket is good and tighten a skosh more.
If at the top of bowl - there should be a 2" bowl gasket.

dougand3 said:

Leaking where - the bowl bolt? Make sure fiber gasket is good and tighten a skosh more.
If at the top of bowl - there should be a 2" bowl gasket.

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Yes, leaking from the bowl bolt. Gasket is new from rebuild kit. I will tighten more. I was afraid of over tightening.

Sometimes it looks like the bolt gasket is leaking, but it is really the bowl gasket. Put a light coat of grease on the gasket before installing to make sure it slides on smoothly.

Or it has a aluminum bowl there a hole corroded into it.

BlufftonJim said:

It will start if I spray carb cleaner in the carb and pull the cord. And, it will continue to run fine until I turn it off.

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I
JC, If u take out the air filter do u see a brass "flap"(the choke) closed or is it open? I ask because pictures of the model that come up(http://newhavenpower.com/Toro20333.html) have the briggs engine which might have the auto choke that is instead stuck open making it not choke to start normally thus your problem.

Rivets said:

Sometimes it looks like the bolt gasket is leaking, but it is really the bowl gasket. Put a light coat of grease on the gasket before installing to make sure it slides on smoothly.

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Hello Rivet! I will give that a try.

upupandaway said:

I
JC, If u take out the air filter do u see a brass "flap"(the choke) closed or is it open? I ask because pictures of the model that come up(http://newhavenpower.com/Toro20333.html) have the briggs engine which might have the auto choke that is instead stuck open making it not choke to start normally thus your problem.

Click to expand...

I will check that. I also need to opinions on the air vane spring. I never found one. Is it missing, or does this engine have one?

I removed the carb, added a little grease to the bowl, added the bowl bolt, reinstalled the carb, and...it still leaked. But, I cranked the bolt a little more tight, and it stopped! The air vane spring did not come. Delivery was delayed until tomorrow.

The air vane spring arrived today. I put in on and that did not fix the issue. When this began, I could start the mower with carb cleaner sprayed in the carb, and it would keep running, but would not start pulling the rope, even after the engine was warm.

Now, the carb is completely rebuilt, new spark plug, and will still only start with help from carb cleaner, but now will NOT keep running.

Time to dump this thing?

Is this what you installed? On the far right is the silver tstat lever inside the U of the air vane. The front of the lever should be inside the front set of 2 lines and side set of 2 lines. (This one is off - too far back.) On the left is the air vane spring.

This picture shows what I installed an what it looks like now.

Gas leaks are kinda tricky sometimes because of the way it flows, in my experience, gas leaking from anything from the fuel line to the needle and seat to the upper or lower o-ring/seal all look similar. If the bowl nut washer is leaking and you got a new one from the kit, try putting the old one back lol.

TylerFrankel1 said:

Gas leaks are kinda tricky sometimes because of the way it flows, in my experience, gas leaking from anything from the fuel line to the needle and seat to the upper or lower o-ring/seal all look similar. If the bowl nut washer is leaking and you got a new one from the kit, try putting the old one back lol.

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Oh, I stopped the gas leak. Then I received the air vane spring, put it on, and same problem, except it won't even keep running now.

You need to pull the blower housing and inspect the silver Tstat wand. The location inside the air vane U is important. Youtube video -

Follow along with this video you might find it quite helpful. Taryl uses made up words sometimes but this video is very thorough and the mower he is repairing had a similar issue to yours.

Oops, looks like someone beat me to that. Regardless the point is you should also check on your air vane and thermal arm now to make sure they're working too. One thing you could try is to manually operate these linkages to see if you can get it to start. Do so with caution of course. Hold the choke closed and rig/tape the throttle open about 1/3 of the way and see if you can get it to start, then let off the choke slowly.