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Jon Deere LX 188 bogs down
#1
N
nettieabcd
N
nettieabcd
Hi there,
I have an older JD LX 188 that has been a wonderful machine until recently. What happens is that it starts and runs great until I start mowing. Then after about 5 minutes it starts to mis-fire and eventually stalls. It will sart again fully choked but then go only about 10 feet before stalling again. I have replaced the spark plugs, installed a new carberautor, cleaned the fuel lines, checked the fuel pump, 2 mechanics have looked at and it still does the same thing. It will run just fine until it is under a load, a feature of the problem that I can't get the mechanics to understand. Could it be coil/wires?
thanks for you help.
I have an older JD LX 188 that has been a wonderful machine until recently. What happens is that it starts and runs great until I start mowing. Then after about 5 minutes it starts to mis-fire and eventually stalls. It will sart again fully choked but then go only about 10 feet before stalling again. I have replaced the spark plugs, installed a new carberautor, cleaned the fuel lines, checked the fuel pump, 2 mechanics have looked at and it still does the same thing. It will run just fine until it is under a load, a feature of the problem that I can't get the mechanics to understand. Could it be coil/wires?
thanks for you help.
#2
D
DaveTN
My friend has an old LGT FORD 14HP Cast Iron Kohler engine in it. His did basically the same. We went thru the carburetor 6 times or more. It would mow great, even under load, then suddenly sputter, and nearly die. Had to disengage the blades and sputter back on 3/4 choke. Even then it would die and have to sit several minutes and crank it again. The problem wasn't in the carb, or the fuel line, but in the "L" shaped inlet from fuel ine into carburetor. It would occasionally vibrate some flake of dirt or something over the inlet and starve the engine for fuel. After using a wire and carb cleaner with a wand and spraying it out good, it got good flow and runs like a charm now! Assuming it's NOT that...having it run on choke sounds to me like a fuel starvation problem. When it sputters out like that again, quickly take the float bowl off and see how much fuel is IN the bowl and if there are any sediments etc. Note in particular the FLOW of fuel. Is it in sufficient quantity, as in a small stream? Or is it drip, drip, like an old faucet? You MUST have a flow of gas to run a mower under load. I've seen them run on a drip but only idling and then may die. Could possibly be a coil getting hot and getting too much resistance to fire the plug, in which case you'd have to replace the coil. If you could borrow a good coil, say from one of your mechanics and test it again that would eliminate the coil problem. Could also be an intermittent grounding of the switch/kill wire. Maybe rubbing on something and grounding out the coil, but that wouldn't account for it running on CHOKE. Give us an update and I'll ponder on it further.
D
DaveTN
Hi there,
I have an older JD LX 188 that has been a wonderful machine until recently. What happens is that it starts and runs great until I start mowing. Then after about 5 minutes it starts to mis-fire and eventually stalls. It will sart again fully choked but then go only about 10 feet before stalling again. I have replaced the spark plugs, installed a new carberautor, cleaned the fuel lines, checked the fuel pump, 2 mechanics have looked at and it still does the same thing. It will run just fine until it is under a load, a feature of the problem that I can't get the mechanics to understand. Could it be coil/wires?
thanks for you help.
My friend has an old LGT FORD 14HP Cast Iron Kohler engine in it. His did basically the same. We went thru the carburetor 6 times or more. It would mow great, even under load, then suddenly sputter, and nearly die. Had to disengage the blades and sputter back on 3/4 choke. Even then it would die and have to sit several minutes and crank it again. The problem wasn't in the carb, or the fuel line, but in the "L" shaped inlet from fuel ine into carburetor. It would occasionally vibrate some flake of dirt or something over the inlet and starve the engine for fuel. After using a wire and carb cleaner with a wand and spraying it out good, it got good flow and runs like a charm now! Assuming it's NOT that...having it run on choke sounds to me like a fuel starvation problem. When it sputters out like that again, quickly take the float bowl off and see how much fuel is IN the bowl and if there are any sediments etc. Note in particular the FLOW of fuel. Is it in sufficient quantity, as in a small stream? Or is it drip, drip, like an old faucet? You MUST have a flow of gas to run a mower under load. I've seen them run on a drip but only idling and then may die. Could possibly be a coil getting hot and getting too much resistance to fire the plug, in which case you'd have to replace the coil. If you could borrow a good coil, say from one of your mechanics and test it again that would eliminate the coil problem. Could also be an intermittent grounding of the switch/kill wire. Maybe rubbing on something and grounding out the coil, but that wouldn't account for it running on CHOKE. Give us an update and I'll ponder on it further.
#3
SONOFADOCKER
SONOFADOCKER
Have you ever taken the head off to clean the carbon off the piston head and valve heads ?
When carbon gets hot fuel ignites before compression stroke .... Loss of power ...
When carbon gets hot fuel ignites before compression stroke .... Loss of power ...
#4
M
MNBen
M
MNBen
What engine is on the JD?
I am having the same issues with my 12.5 Briggs. cleaning carb several times and a new carb kit did not help. I swapped the coil and that did not help. I do have a stripped spark plug hole that probably contributes to mine. I will be swapping out the head with a spare I have and will clean the piston to see if that helps.
I subscribed to this thread because I hope you let us know what fixed the issue.
MNBen
I am having the same issues with my 12.5 Briggs. cleaning carb several times and a new carb kit did not help. I swapped the coil and that did not help. I do have a stripped spark plug hole that probably contributes to mine. I will be swapping out the head with a spare I have and will clean the piston to see if that helps.
I subscribed to this thread because I hope you let us know what fixed the issue.
MNBen
#5
N
nettieabcd
N
nettieabcd
Well, i have spent about $600 dollars with 4 trips to various mechanics and the mower still bogs down when hot. I hate to scrap it for what is probably an easy fix for someone who knows what they are doing. I mean, it's a Deere, an LX188,etc. surely there is a mechanic who would know what to do.
#6
G
Glenn300
G
Glenn300
only three areas to consider fuel ignition and compression
On the fuel area if the wire works loose on the fuel cutoff it will give trouble and not let fuel flow
through the carburetor -this has been an issue on that Kawasaki engine. I rewired a new wire
from ignition swith to the cut off and repaired one engine that way. The fuel line from
the tank to to the filter can be checked and from the fuel filter to the fuel pump . I f remove the
line from the fuel pump going to carb and crank over the engine and adequate fuel flows then
it only leaves the possibility of carburetor fuel flow. Also on the LX188 engine the carb will have
a tendency to run rich under idle and smooth out under load. In fact if you adjust it to good idle
I have seen on this eninge it bog down under load. try about 1/4 more on rich setting than
is listed in the service bulletins and see it that helps
As to compression - make sure the valves are adjusted correctly and there is adequate
compression for the engine to operate (if adequate) - then most likely it is an
ignition problem . If the compression reading was high it would indicate excessive carbon build up
in the heads- but rare on this model engine
On the ignition - first change the plugs - I have seen good looking plugs misfire. I have
found the Lx188 runs better with NGK plugs. Second ensure that the flywheekl is not loose or
it will throw off timing. Also make sure the exciter coils on the outside of the flywheel are
clean and tightly connected to the casting of the engine. Remove the plugs and lay against
the frame of the engine and crank engine over and see if have blue spark if so iginition proably in
good shape but like I said a good looking plug can misfire under compression load.
Also with any engine an ignition coil can break down and misfire when it is hot but a basic check of
the ohms of the primary to the seconday can pinpoint internal wiring problems in the coil.
All of this assumes you have a good battery and tight connections and properly operating safety
switches that are not causing problems. A weak battery will cause weak fire and a loose
safety swith with cause one to misfire . Also the oil pressure switch on some models with
shut down ignition if have low oil pressure so make sure the wire to the oil pressure sending unit
is tight.
I have rebuilt a few of the LX 188 engines and most of the problems are fuel related
to defective carburetor or fuel shut off
On the fuel area if the wire works loose on the fuel cutoff it will give trouble and not let fuel flow
through the carburetor -this has been an issue on that Kawasaki engine. I rewired a new wire
from ignition swith to the cut off and repaired one engine that way. The fuel line from
the tank to to the filter can be checked and from the fuel filter to the fuel pump . I f remove the
line from the fuel pump going to carb and crank over the engine and adequate fuel flows then
it only leaves the possibility of carburetor fuel flow. Also on the LX188 engine the carb will have
a tendency to run rich under idle and smooth out under load. In fact if you adjust it to good idle
I have seen on this eninge it bog down under load. try about 1/4 more on rich setting than
is listed in the service bulletins and see it that helps
As to compression - make sure the valves are adjusted correctly and there is adequate
compression for the engine to operate (if adequate) - then most likely it is an
ignition problem . If the compression reading was high it would indicate excessive carbon build up
in the heads- but rare on this model engine
On the ignition - first change the plugs - I have seen good looking plugs misfire. I have
found the Lx188 runs better with NGK plugs. Second ensure that the flywheekl is not loose or
it will throw off timing. Also make sure the exciter coils on the outside of the flywheel are
clean and tightly connected to the casting of the engine. Remove the plugs and lay against
the frame of the engine and crank engine over and see if have blue spark if so iginition proably in
good shape but like I said a good looking plug can misfire under compression load.
Also with any engine an ignition coil can break down and misfire when it is hot but a basic check of
the ohms of the primary to the seconday can pinpoint internal wiring problems in the coil.
All of this assumes you have a good battery and tight connections and properly operating safety
switches that are not causing problems. A weak battery will cause weak fire and a loose
safety swith with cause one to misfire . Also the oil pressure switch on some models with
shut down ignition if have low oil pressure so make sure the wire to the oil pressure sending unit
is tight.
I have rebuilt a few of the LX 188 engines and most of the problems are fuel related
to defective carburetor or fuel shut off
#7
N
nettieabcd
N
nettieabcd
thanks to all of you for your input. This thing is driving me nuts. I will fiddle with it, it starts and runs great until it gets hot, then bogs down. But I will study all of your posts and see if I can remedy this situation once I have time to really tear into the machine.
#8
G
Glenn300
G
Glenn300
according to the tech manual for Kawasaki liquid cool the following is a comprehensive list of
reasons for engine loosing power (from tech maual john deere lx188)
weak or fualty spark plug
Faulty high tension leads
Faulty ignition modules
fualty iginion coil
faulyt pulser coil
contaminated fuel
defective fuel pump
Air drawn in from defective fuel hose
clogged fuel filter
fuel tank vent line clogged
vapor lock
poor compression
cylinder head loose
warped or burn valves
improper valve clearance
warped cylkinder head
broken valve spring
defective head gasket
improprer oil level
carb out of adjustment
carbon deposit in exaust pipe or muffler
carbon deposit in combustion chamber
Well a lot of stuff but I would be on defective ignition module of defective exciter coil
these are all parts that will change operating characteristics when they heat up
I would bet you have an ignition problem but between this posting and the last posting
I think you have enough to consider all possibilities.
Just remember go through the process of elmination if all else fails.
Glenn300
reasons for engine loosing power (from tech maual john deere lx188)
weak or fualty spark plug
Faulty high tension leads
Faulty ignition modules
fualty iginion coil
faulyt pulser coil
contaminated fuel
defective fuel pump
Air drawn in from defective fuel hose
clogged fuel filter
fuel tank vent line clogged
vapor lock
poor compression
cylinder head loose
warped or burn valves
improper valve clearance
warped cylkinder head
broken valve spring
defective head gasket
improprer oil level
carb out of adjustment
carbon deposit in exaust pipe or muffler
carbon deposit in combustion chamber
Well a lot of stuff but I would be on defective ignition module of defective exciter coil
these are all parts that will change operating characteristics when they heat up
I would bet you have an ignition problem but between this posting and the last posting
I think you have enough to consider all possibilities.
Just remember go through the process of elmination if all else fails.
Glenn300
#9
H
Hank Koster
H
Hank Koster
I have a problem similar to this with my LX-188. Mine will start fine and mow fine, but then it will act like it's starved for fuel and run very poorly for about 5 or 10 minutes. If I just sit with it gasping for life for a few minutes, it will clear itself and run great for another 10 minutes before it stumbles again for 5 or 10 minutes. It keeps going through these cycles (run great, gasp, run great, gasp), which tells me it's not an ignition or valve problem. Does this sound like a junky carburetor to anyone? Both coils and the fuel pump have been replaced. I've taken the fuel line off and inspected it and it looks fine.
Should the fuel filter always be mostly full? Sometimes mine is completely empty, even after replacing the fuel pump, but whether it's full or empty doesn't seem to match up with how well the engine is running.
Any advice is greatly appreciated!!!
Should the fuel filter always be mostly full? Sometimes mine is completely empty, even after replacing the fuel pump, but whether it's full or empty doesn't seem to match up with how well the engine is running.
Any advice is greatly appreciated!!!
#10
Fish
Fish
Sounds like you just need to drain all of the crap and water out of your carb.
#11
H
Hank Koster
Fish: My carb has been taken apart several times by a John Deere mechanic so I don't think it has any water in it, but you never know. I am thinking maybe it's time to bite the bullet and lay out $210 for a new carburetor.
H
Hank Koster
Sounds like you just need to drain all of the crap and water out of your carb.
Fish: My carb has been taken apart several times by a John Deere mechanic so I don't think it has any water in it, but you never know. I am thinking maybe it's time to bite the bullet and lay out $210 for a new carburetor.
#12
Carscw
Carscw
I would replace the fuel line and filter.
The filter should never be empty or close to empty.
The filter should never be empty or close to empty.
#13
Fish
Oh bullcheet....
The clear fuel filter is a huge mistake!!!!! Drain the carb again now!!!!, While the nut is loose on the bottom of the carb, crank the hell out of it!!!! Throw in a bottle of 91% rubbing alcohol, run it dry!!!! never trust anyone that .....
Well, I cannot say anymore..... I might get reported........ You likely have a bunch of water in your fuel system..... The "empty"
fuel filter is a common "complaint", but it has nothing to do with your engine......
Please do not waste a few hundred dollars, us jokers here already look bad enough.......
Fish
Fish: My carb has been taken apart several times by a John Deere mechanic so I don't think it has any water in it, but you never know. I am thinking maybe it's time to bite the bullet and lay out $210 for a new carburetor.
Oh bullcheet....
The clear fuel filter is a huge mistake!!!!! Drain the carb again now!!!!, While the nut is loose on the bottom of the carb, crank the hell out of it!!!! Throw in a bottle of 91% rubbing alcohol, run it dry!!!! never trust anyone that .....
Well, I cannot say anymore..... I might get reported........ You likely have a bunch of water in your fuel system..... The "empty"
fuel filter is a common "complaint", but it has nothing to do with your engine......
Please do not waste a few hundred dollars, us jokers here already look bad enough.......
#14
Fish
Wow, sounds like your jd mechanics love you!!!!
Fish
Fish: My carb has been taken apart several times by a John Deere mechanic so I don't think it has any water in it, but you never know. I am thinking maybe it's time to bite the bullet and lay out $210 for a new carburetor.
Wow, sounds like your jd mechanics love you!!!!
#15
Fish
Fish
Dang....You do not have any other options? There is none of our gang here that is in Wash?
#16
H
Hank Koster
Thanks to all who replied! I appreciate it.
H
Hank Koster
Dang....You do not have any other options? There is none of our gang here that is in Wash?
Thanks to all who replied! I appreciate it.
#17
Fish
Fish
Rereading this thread again, and looking at the engine blowup, you need to check and adjust your valves next, cheap and easy to do.
#18
H
Hank Koster
Thanks for your continuing comments. I appreciate your help and interest.
H
Hank Koster
Rereading this thread again, and looking at the engine blowup, you need to check and adjust your valves next, cheap and easy to do.
Thanks for your continuing comments. I appreciate your help and interest.
#19
G
Green Flamingo
I am having the same trouble with my 1996 LX188. I have replaced the plugs, all filters, and two new coils. I removed the carb today and took it to the shop, where it was cleaned and deemed to be working fine. The only thing left is the Fuel pump, which seems to be working fine as well. One thing we did notice while working on the carb is that the fuel shut off solenoid on the carb doesn't appear to be working just right. If I hook it directly to the battery it will not activate unless I touch the shaft slightly. Now I'm wondering if this could be the trouble all along. If that gets hot and fails I'm assuming it will starve the engine of fuel. Any ideas would be appreciated, as the fuel pump is 189.00 and the solenoid is 109.00. After just spending 260.00 on coils and filters I'm just about ready to pack it in. Any of this make sense?
G
Green Flamingo
I have a problem similar to this with my LX-188. Mine will start fine and mow fine, but then it will act like it's starved for fuel and run very poorly for about 5 or 10 minutes. If I just sit with it gasping for life for a few minutes, it will clear itself and run great for another 10 minutes before it stumbles again for 5 or 10 minutes. It keeps going through these cycles (run great, gasp, run great, gasp), which tells me it's not an ignition or valve problem. Does this sound like a junky carburetor to anyone? Both coils and the fuel pump have been replaced. I've taken the fuel line off and inspected it and it looks fine.
Should the fuel filter always be mostly full? Sometimes mine is completely empty, even after replacing the fuel pump, but whether it's full or empty doesn't seem to match up with how well the engine is running.
Any advice is greatly appreciated!!!
I am having the same trouble with my 1996 LX188. I have replaced the plugs, all filters, and two new coils. I removed the carb today and took it to the shop, where it was cleaned and deemed to be working fine. The only thing left is the Fuel pump, which seems to be working fine as well. One thing we did notice while working on the carb is that the fuel shut off solenoid on the carb doesn't appear to be working just right. If I hook it directly to the battery it will not activate unless I touch the shaft slightly. Now I'm wondering if this could be the trouble all along. If that gets hot and fails I'm assuming it will starve the engine of fuel. Any ideas would be appreciated, as the fuel pump is 189.00 and the solenoid is 109.00. After just spending 260.00 on coils and filters I'm just about ready to pack it in. Any of this make sense?
#20
L
Leah C.
L
Leah C.
Dear Green Flamingo and Hank Koster -
I have the exact problems that you are having with your John Deere lx188. I have replaced the dirty fuel filter and checked the fuel lines. The fuel lines look in good shape but, how do I know if air is getting into the line that connects to the fuel tank? The fuel line after the filter that connects to the carb seems bone dry. I hope that you have solved your problems and can share your remedies with me. Also, Fish, how do I adjust the valves?
Many thanks
I have the exact problems that you are having with your John Deere lx188. I have replaced the dirty fuel filter and checked the fuel lines. The fuel lines look in good shape but, how do I know if air is getting into the line that connects to the fuel tank? The fuel line after the filter that connects to the carb seems bone dry. I hope that you have solved your problems and can share your remedies with me. Also, Fish, how do I adjust the valves?
Many thanks
#21
G
Green Flamingo
Leah,
Happy to say I have resolved the problem. After eventually replacing the fuel pump as well as cut the plunger off of the Solenoid, it was still doing the same thing. Surgeing and finally unable to run with the deck engaged. Since I'm not very confident taking apart little carbs, I took it to a mechanic I know, who took out the needle valves and soaked it all in combustion chamber cleaner for a few hours. Runs like a scared rabbit now.
I will say this: The govenor is extremely touchy on this machine. It can be adjusted by moving the plate that houses the throttle cable etc. One of the bolt holes is oblong. Just move it so slightly, tighten it and try it. If it's idling too fast or slow, do it again until you have what sounds like normal rpms. It may take a half a dozen tries.
Also, the fuel filter does not run full. At least on mine. Half full at best and this IS normal.
If you haven't removed the carb it is a bit of a pain. You will have to remove the bonnet, (there are two bolts on the sides which will require an extension), and then the black metal plate behind it (two small 10mm nuts) In fact everything in that area is 10mm so you won't need a bag of wrences. The carb mounting nuts are on the same bolts as this plate is attached to. In order to remove the carb you will need to remove the two bolts that hold the plastic air duct in place on the blower housing, which is attached directly to the carb intake, then VERY CAREFULLY, remove the throttle linkage plate and the carb at the same time slowly. You will have to remove the spring going to the govenor and finally the two little armatures that go from the throttle linkage plate and govenor to the carb itself. The one coming from the Govenor will have a little spring on it as well which must be removed at the same time. Pay very particular attention to what goes where. (I wish I had have taken pictures before - but you would be wise to do this) The choke linkage one has a bend in it so be sure you know which end goes where for reassembly.
Once you have the carb cleaned and reassembled, just reverse the process you used to take it apart. If you have any amount of dirt in there, I would also recommend pressure washing that area out after you remove the plate and before removing anything else. Things are very hard to see otherwise if they're covered in years of gunk. Do that before you take anything apart.
You may actually have to remove the govenor armature as well (I did in order to get the spring and connecting rod off and on) There is a hole in the govenor shaft from the engine. I marked the govenor lever with the hole position before I removed it and replaced it in the same postition.
So what have I learned from this 500.00+ exercise? It was not the plugs, or the coils, or the filters, or the fuel lines and it was not the fuel pump. It was a dirty carb all along. The first guy I took it to removed the bowl and said it was clean as a whistle. WRONG. It needs to come apart.
In any event, I have now what would be for all intents and purposes a brand new machine.
Oh, and the valve lash (which I did not do), is .06. You will need to bring each cylinder to TDC, and then adjust the lash with a feeler guage just so it pulls out with a slight resistance. To find TDC without tearing apart the whole shamoozle, just remove the plugs and click it over until the piston is as close to the spark plug hole as possible. Do this seperately for each cylinder. But honestly, unless they are making a lot of noise I think it's best to leave them alone.
I don't recommend dissasembly with a hot engine. When you take the fuel line from the carburetor, there could be a lot of fuel loss - directly on a burning hot muffler!
Hope this helps some. It is extremely frustrating. If you need anything more please do not hesitate to reply.
Cheers,
Rick
G
Green Flamingo
Dear Green Flamingo and Hank Koster -
I have the exact problems that you are having with your John Deere lx188. I have replaced the dirty fuel filter and checked the fuel lines. The fuel lines look in good shape but, how do I know if air is getting into the line that connects to the fuel tank? The fuel line after the filter that connects to the carb seems bone dry. I hope that you have solved your problems and can share your remedies with me. Also, Fish, how do I adjust the valves?
Many thanks
Leah,
Happy to say I have resolved the problem. After eventually replacing the fuel pump as well as cut the plunger off of the Solenoid, it was still doing the same thing. Surgeing and finally unable to run with the deck engaged. Since I'm not very confident taking apart little carbs, I took it to a mechanic I know, who took out the needle valves and soaked it all in combustion chamber cleaner for a few hours. Runs like a scared rabbit now.
I will say this: The govenor is extremely touchy on this machine. It can be adjusted by moving the plate that houses the throttle cable etc. One of the bolt holes is oblong. Just move it so slightly, tighten it and try it. If it's idling too fast or slow, do it again until you have what sounds like normal rpms. It may take a half a dozen tries.
Also, the fuel filter does not run full. At least on mine. Half full at best and this IS normal.
If you haven't removed the carb it is a bit of a pain. You will have to remove the bonnet, (there are two bolts on the sides which will require an extension), and then the black metal plate behind it (two small 10mm nuts) In fact everything in that area is 10mm so you won't need a bag of wrences. The carb mounting nuts are on the same bolts as this plate is attached to. In order to remove the carb you will need to remove the two bolts that hold the plastic air duct in place on the blower housing, which is attached directly to the carb intake, then VERY CAREFULLY, remove the throttle linkage plate and the carb at the same time slowly. You will have to remove the spring going to the govenor and finally the two little armatures that go from the throttle linkage plate and govenor to the carb itself. The one coming from the Govenor will have a little spring on it as well which must be removed at the same time. Pay very particular attention to what goes where. (I wish I had have taken pictures before - but you would be wise to do this) The choke linkage one has a bend in it so be sure you know which end goes where for reassembly.
Once you have the carb cleaned and reassembled, just reverse the process you used to take it apart. If you have any amount of dirt in there, I would also recommend pressure washing that area out after you remove the plate and before removing anything else. Things are very hard to see otherwise if they're covered in years of gunk. Do that before you take anything apart.
You may actually have to remove the govenor armature as well (I did in order to get the spring and connecting rod off and on) There is a hole in the govenor shaft from the engine. I marked the govenor lever with the hole position before I removed it and replaced it in the same postition.
So what have I learned from this 500.00+ exercise? It was not the plugs, or the coils, or the filters, or the fuel lines and it was not the fuel pump. It was a dirty carb all along. The first guy I took it to removed the bowl and said it was clean as a whistle. WRONG. It needs to come apart.
In any event, I have now what would be for all intents and purposes a brand new machine.
Oh, and the valve lash (which I did not do), is .06. You will need to bring each cylinder to TDC, and then adjust the lash with a feeler guage just so it pulls out with a slight resistance. To find TDC without tearing apart the whole shamoozle, just remove the plugs and click it over until the piston is as close to the spark plug hole as possible. Do this seperately for each cylinder. But honestly, unless they are making a lot of noise I think it's best to leave them alone.
I don't recommend dissasembly with a hot engine. When you take the fuel line from the carburetor, there could be a lot of fuel loss - directly on a burning hot muffler!
Hope this helps some. It is extremely frustrating. If you need anything more please do not hesitate to reply.
Cheers,
Rick
#22
H
Hank Koster
I think I've solved my problem by buying a new carburetor and installing it myself. As Rick points out, this is a bit of a pain in the butt and this engine was clearly not designed to make it easy to get at the carburetor. The new carb was $210 with free shipping on ebay. It's possible the old one didn't need to be replaced, but after untold number of trips to the mechanic with lots of parts replaced and adjustments and cleaning to the old carb, this is actually a cheap way to go. So far, so good.
H
Hank Koster
Leah,
Happy to say I have resolved the problem. After eventually replacing the fuel pump as well as cut the plunger off of the Solenoid, it was still doing the same thing. Surgeing and finally unable to run with the deck engaged. Since I'm not very confident taking apart little carbs, I took it to a mechanic I know, who took out the needle valves and soaked it all in combustion chamber cleaner for a few hours. Runs like a scared rabbit now.
I will say this: The govenor is extremely touchy on this machine. It can be adjusted by moving the plate that houses the throttle cable etc. One of the bolt holes is oblong. Just move it so slightly, tighten it and try it. If it's idling too fast or slow, do it again until you have what sounds like normal rpms. It may take a half a dozen tries.
Also, the fuel filter does not run full. At least on mine. Half full at best and this IS normal.
If you haven't removed the carb it is a bit of a pain. You will have to remove the bonnet, (there are two bolts on the sides which will require an extension), and then the black metal plate behind it (two small 10mm nuts) In fact everything in that area is 10mm so you won't need a bag of wrences. The carb mounting nuts are on the same bolts as this plate is attached to. In order to remove the carb you will need to remove the two bolts that hold the plastic air duct in place on the blower housing, which is attached directly to the carb intake, then VERY CAREFULLY, remove the throttle linkage plate and the carb at the same time slowly. You will have to remove the spring going to the govenor and finally the two little armatures that go from the throttle linkage plate and govenor to the carb itself. The one coming from the Govenor will have a little spring on it as well which must be removed at the same time. Pay very particular attention to what goes where. (I wish I had have taken pictures before - but you would be wise to do this) The choke linkage one has a bend in it so be sure you know which end goes where for reassembly.
Once you have the carb cleaned and reassembled, just reverse the process you used to take it apart. If you have any amount of dirt in there, I would also recommend pressure washing that area out after you remove the plate and before removing anything else. Things are very hard to see otherwise if they're covered in years of gunk. Do that before you take anything apart.
You may actually have to remove the govenor armature as well (I did in order to get the spring and connecting rod off and on) There is a hole in the govenor shaft from the engine. I marked the govenor lever with the hole position before I removed it and replaced it in the same postition.
So what have I learned from this 500.00+ exercise? It was not the plugs, or the coils, or the filters, or the fuel lines and it was not the fuel pump. It was a dirty carb all along. The first guy I took it to removed the bowl and said it was clean as a whistle. WRONG. It needs to come apart.
In any event, I have now what would be for all intents and purposes a brand new machine.
Oh, and the valve lash (which I did not do), is .06. You will need to bring each cylinder to TDC, and then adjust the lash with a feeler guage just so it pulls out with a slight resistance. To find TDC without tearing apart the whole shamoozle, just remove the plugs and click it over until the piston is as close to the spark plug hole as possible. Do this seperately for each cylinder. But honestly, unless they are making a lot of noise I think it's best to leave them alone.
I don't recommend dissasembly with a hot engine. When you take the fuel line from the carburetor, there could be a lot of fuel loss - directly on a burning hot muffler!
Hope this helps some. It is extremely frustrating. If you need anything more please do not hesitate to reply.
Cheers,
Rick
I think I've solved my problem by buying a new carburetor and installing it myself. As Rick points out, this is a bit of a pain in the butt and this engine was clearly not designed to make it easy to get at the carburetor. The new carb was $210 with free shipping on ebay. It's possible the old one didn't need to be replaced, but after untold number of trips to the mechanic with lots of parts replaced and adjustments and cleaning to the old carb, this is actually a cheap way to go. So far, so good.
#23
G
Green Flamingo
Good stuff. Hopefully anyone else having this problem will find this thread and save themselves a lot of greif and money.
G
Green Flamingo
I think I've solved my problem by buying a new carburetor and installing it myself. As Rick points out, this is a bit of a pain in the butt and this engine was clearly not designed to make it easy to get at the carburetor. The new carb was $210 with free shipping on ebay. It's possible the old one didn't need to be replaced, but after untold number of trips to the mechanic with lots of parts replaced and adjustments and cleaning to the old carb, this is actually a cheap way to go. So far, so good.
Good stuff. Hopefully anyone else having this problem will find this thread and save themselves a lot of greif and money.
#24
L
Leah C.
L
Leah C.
Hi -
Thank you for your kind responses! I removed by first carburetor tonight! I did take pictures so, I hope I can put it back. I am going to take it to someone and have it cleaned. What I think is a solenoid valve was attached to the carb. I left it on and thought the repair shop could check it, too. Does this sound right? (I am learning as I go....lawyer by trade but love working with engineers so, I feel compelled to try to fix it myself.) I am glad to hear that you both were able to fix your lawn tractors. Thanks to this forum, I have only invested a few dollars in a new fuel filter and 2 spark plugs (I don't know if they are gapped right!) so, hoping that a cleaning of the carb will do the trick. I need new gaskets for both sides of the carb. They are dry rotted. There is some residual, dried out gasket where the carb fits into the engine. Do you have a recommendation as to how to remove it? I want the new gaskets to have a tight fit.
I appreciate your assistance!
Leah
Thank you for your kind responses! I removed by first carburetor tonight! I did take pictures so, I hope I can put it back. I am going to take it to someone and have it cleaned. What I think is a solenoid valve was attached to the carb. I left it on and thought the repair shop could check it, too. Does this sound right? (I am learning as I go....lawyer by trade but love working with engineers so, I feel compelled to try to fix it myself.) I am glad to hear that you both were able to fix your lawn tractors. Thanks to this forum, I have only invested a few dollars in a new fuel filter and 2 spark plugs (I don't know if they are gapped right!) so, hoping that a cleaning of the carb will do the trick. I need new gaskets for both sides of the carb. They are dry rotted. There is some residual, dried out gasket where the carb fits into the engine. Do you have a recommendation as to how to remove it? I want the new gaskets to have a tight fit.
I appreciate your assistance!
Leah
#25
Rokon
That never happens... :laughing:
Rokon
Oh bullcheet....
Well, I cannot say anymore..... I might get reported........
That never happens... :laughing:
#26
G
Green Flamingo
Yes Leah, that would be the solenoid. You can ask them to test it at the shop. With 12 volts applied across the terminals it should retract. If there is any question, simply ask them to cut the shaft off. It won't hurt anything at all. This is the fuel shut off solenoid, also known years ago as an anti-backfire solenoid. It is there to prevent excess fuel from getting into the system if you shut the engine off at high RPM. Mine always did backfire once in awhile after long hot use anyway. Remember to have them position the bowl on the carb so the solenoid is in the same position otherwise it may not fit or the wire will not reach it.
You will need to get the gaskets from John Deere. (you should get both for the front and the rear while you're in there), and they are #6 and #8. I will try to attach the parts layout. To remove the old gasget, you can get gasket remover from NAPA or most Auto Parts stores. It will probably come in a spray can. You don't really want to get any of this inside the intake manifold, so stuff a rag in the hole before applying it. I would personally spray some into a container and then apply it with a brush. Let it sit for 10 minutes or so, and then scrape it off with a PLASTIC scraper. Repeat as required. A plastic spoon or knife from a take out restaraunt is ideal for this. And don't get too much on your hands. It will eat the skin right off your fingers if it's on there for long. (experience speaking)
Hope all goes well, and looking forward to hearing about your progress.
View attachment Kentville@green-diamond.ca_20140814_112928.pdf
G
Green Flamingo
Hi -
Thank you for your kind responses! I removed by first carburetor tonight! I did take pictures so, I hope I can put it back. I am going to take it to someone and have it cleaned. What I think is a solenoid valve was attached to the carb. I left it on and thought the repair shop could check it, too. Does this sound right? (I am learning as I go....lawyer by trade but love working with engineers so, I feel compelled to try to fix it myself.) I am glad to hear that you both were able to fix your lawn tractors. Thanks to this forum, I have only invested a few dollars in a new fuel filter and 2 spark plugs (I don't know if they are gapped right!) so, hoping that a cleaning of the carb will do the trick. I need new gaskets for both sides of the carb. They are dry rotted. There is some residual, dried out gasket where the carb fits into the engine. Do you have a recommendation as to how to remove it? I want the new gaskets to have a tight fit.
I appreciate your assistance!
Leah
Yes Leah, that would be the solenoid. You can ask them to test it at the shop. With 12 volts applied across the terminals it should retract. If there is any question, simply ask them to cut the shaft off. It won't hurt anything at all. This is the fuel shut off solenoid, also known years ago as an anti-backfire solenoid. It is there to prevent excess fuel from getting into the system if you shut the engine off at high RPM. Mine always did backfire once in awhile after long hot use anyway. Remember to have them position the bowl on the carb so the solenoid is in the same position otherwise it may not fit or the wire will not reach it.
You will need to get the gaskets from John Deere. (you should get both for the front and the rear while you're in there), and they are #6 and #8. I will try to attach the parts layout. To remove the old gasget, you can get gasket remover from NAPA or most Auto Parts stores. It will probably come in a spray can. You don't really want to get any of this inside the intake manifold, so stuff a rag in the hole before applying it. I would personally spray some into a container and then apply it with a brush. Let it sit for 10 minutes or so, and then scrape it off with a PLASTIC scraper. Repeat as required. A plastic spoon or knife from a take out restaraunt is ideal for this. And don't get too much on your hands. It will eat the skin right off your fingers if it's on there for long. (experience speaking)
Hope all goes well, and looking forward to hearing about your progress.
View attachment Kentville@green-diamond.ca_20140814_112928.pdf
#27
L
Leah C.
L
Leah C.
Hi - I took the carburetor in for cleaning. They took the bowl off and said it didn't look too dirty so they didn't clean it. They did cut off something on the solenoid. Put it back on and it ran for a few minutes and quit. I have removed the fuel tank and cleaned it. Replaced the fuel lines, fuel filter, air filter, and spark plugs. Based on your experiences and posts, I wasn't ready to give up on the carburetor so, I took it apart and cleaned it. My tractor now sounds very good and doesn't quit, even with the blades engaged. BUT...... it doesn't seem like the governor is working right. The rpms/idle sound good (after quickly adjusting that little screw on the carburetor) but, it only sounds like it has one speed. I have a choke position, rabbit and turtle. It doesn't seem like the governor is pulling the arm right to make sounds/changes as it goes through the three positions. It makes a slight change from rabbit to turtle but not from choke to rabbit. Sorry that I don't know the correct terms but hope someone can figure out what I am trying to say. I haven't cut the grass with the tractor yet because I am worried that running it too rich or too lean isn't good for the engine (like when you go up a hill, it should adjust and give a little more gas..?). I have taken the carburetor on and off about three times now and feel good that I have attached the arms from the carb to the governor right but....???? I adjusted the screw at the bottom of the governor that holds the cable that runs from the orange choke lever to the governor so I can get the orange lever to go into the three positions..... I would appreciate any help!
Leah
Leah
#28
G
Green Flamingo
G
Green Flamingo
It sounds like you have a couple of things going on there. The governor on these machines is extremely picky. To set it, first loosen the bolt, then put the throttle to maximum (with the engine off obviously), and then tighten the governor arm while holding it counter clockwise as far as it will go.
You will also notice on the plate the holds the throttle cable, that one of the holes (on the right looking from the front) is oblong. You can adjust this as well to increase or decrease the governor action and rpm.
You will also notice on the plate the holds the throttle cable, that one of the holes (on the right looking from the front) is oblong. You can adjust this as well to increase or decrease the governor action and rpm.