John Deere X530 (2012) 24HP Kawasaki - Weird Electrical Problem.. Engine randomly shuts off like it's out of gas but, NOT!

[Alphadog]

This tractor was my neighbor's before she passed. I've worked on it many times for her but, now it's mine and I still have a reoccurring problem that I never found a solution for. Here's the deal........
Crank it up, mow the grass. After NO designated amount of time it will just DIE like it's out of gas, which it isn't. Can be 20 minutes or hours. Most of the time (with my neighbor) she would let it sit for awhile and then it would crank. Most of the time!~! It was really hard to troubleshoot and at first I thought it was totally a gas problem. I even clipped the plunger off the carb. solenoid. Nothing. BTW, others worked on it too. The fuel pump was replaced by 'others'. I'm pretty sure that's not the problem.
I installed a larger gas filter. I made sure it wasn't vapor locking. I even went so far as to take the gas tank off and clean it but, I didn't replace the lines from the tank to the pump. After the tank cleaning, it ran so much better and longer before it crapped out again. I was still thinking GAS problem. Well, now it's mine and I used it for the first time this year. I was able to cut most of what I wanted to cut but, just before finishing, it cut off. I let it sit for awhile. Nothing. A while longer. Nothing. I made sure I had gas. Here's where it gets WEIRD!!, to me anyway. Now, I've done this procedure once before and told myself it was a FLUKE. But, I tried it again. I took 1 plug wire off and tried to start it. Replaced and took the other wire off and tried to start it. Nothing. Here's the rub.... I put a screwdriver into the head of the plug wire and got close to ground and turned it over. I started seeing the sparks so I knew I was getting fire. But, just as I was doing this, it began to crank. Not well mind you because it was only hitting on one cylinder. But, it cranked!! I shut it off and replaced the plug wire and cranked it right back up. It kept running so I put it back in the barn to be worked on again.
In my mind, either it was a FLUKE both times and it's just a gas problem OR, the stimulating of the electrical circuit somehow did something. Does that make any kind of sense at all to anyone??? Please!! I'm about to go crazy.

 

[Rivets]

Going to need more info before we can give you a direction to go. First we need engine numbers, so we know what you are talking about. Second, when you say “crank” what do you mean? Engine spins over but does not start or engine does not spin over? Third, have you checked for spark on both cylinders as soon as it quits? Fourth, have you sprayed some gas or carb cleaner into the carb as soon as it quits? Remember we are not standing next to you, with a strong drink in our hand, to see what is going on. You must paint us the best picture you can, before we have an idea what the problem might be. It could be fuel, spark or external electrical problems. Might even be a combination of two. Once the techs here have an idea of what is happening we will tell you how to proceed.

 

[Alphadog]

Sorry about that. When I say 'crank', I mean crank and run. It will always turn over, always. Never failed to turn over and it's just as smooth as can be, just no sign of firing. But, when the engine Stops abruptly, it just like I ran "out of gas" (and usually BACKFIRES), and would not start back up, after I made sure it had gas. Now, back when I was working on it for my neighbor, I had to use it sometimes for long periods before it would stop running. Sometimes it would start right back up and run awhile longer. Sometimes it wouldn't and I would have to wait awhile before trying again. Very inconsistent.

As far as the spark, the cylinder I mentioned previously was the left side. Last year when I did the same thing and it started running, it was the right side cylinder. Even then I thought, WTH?

I appreciate your input Rivets. What I'll have to do is just run it and let it die (or not). Then I'll do more checking. When it's running, it's running GREAT! I do remember using starter fluid once a few years ago to see if that worked. I'm ashamed to say this but, I forget what the result was. Maybe it worked and that's why I thought 'gas' problem. I might even mention I cleaned the carb too. One big problem is it's not consistent. Hard to troubleshoot sometimes when it starts working properly within a few minutes. Also, I didn't stay on top of it because it wasn't mine. I just tried to help her out occasionally. I would sometimes use it to cut my grass just to try and fix it for her. When it would quit, I'd check this and that but, as I said, it would usually start up in a few minutes. Very frustrating.

About the backfire..... To me, that meant that fuel was still entering the carburetor so I'm thinking electrically it's still holding the gas solenoid open allowing gas into the carburetor, just not enough gas to run the engine. Thus, a gas problem. I really don't know. As you can see, I'm just shade tree material.

I'll be using the mower more soon and will try to be more efficient in my troubleshooting. In the meantime I'll get the engine number too. It's a really nice tractor mower that has over 800 hrs on it. One owner with a huge lot. Regularly serviced up until a few years back. Little old lady drove it. Anyway, thanks so far and I'll definitely be back for your input.

 

[Rvanwart]

I have the same exact issue has been going on for 2 seasons now . I change fuel pump and one of the gas lines . will start up great run for awhile then cut off , sometime backfire . I have 2012 X530 , 54” deck

 

[Rvanwart]

Engine is

e13*97/68SN4G2*2004/26*0617*01
engine family ; 726N4CC

 

[Alphadog]

Last year when the mower "wasn't" mine, I removed the gas tank as mentioned above. Like I said, I cleaned it good and afterwards cut more acreage than it had in a long time before shutting off. Although, at that time it cranked right back up and I would continue cutting. Of course, it kept getting worse. Anyway, I own the mower now and am trying to understand what's happening. Since the above post I have cut a few acres and had the mower cut off numerous times. I tried spraying starter fluid but still wouldn't start. I know. Thought it would at least fire but, NOT. I won't bore you with too many details but, I put another fuel filter on and replaced the hose to the pump. Ran a bit and quit. I then replaced the piece of hose between the pump and carb. Since then I've not had it cut off on me but, I can't say it's working properly until I've cut much more grass. You know what my next move will be if it shuts off on me again..... tear it down 'again' and this time replace ALL the hose. I may even give the tank another good cleaning. Time will tell. Right now it's early and I just started using it. I normally use a tractor and finish mower so I won't be using the JD all the time. Anyway, I'll most definetily post if I have more information in the future.

 

[tatersquad]

I had a model come in the shop like this and could never duplicate but every time it went home he had a problems. Flushed fuel system, cleaned pickup, checked fuel pump, and verified hoses were not pinched/kinked (Deere has a case out for this). Finally I was able to get it to do it for me, I put in line spark testers on and noticed they seemed weak. Replaced both coils and he never had an issue again. Seems they were going out and had issues when hot. Hope this helps.

 

[slomo]

Going to need more info before we can give you a direction to go. First we need engine numbers, so we know what you are talking about. Second, when you say “crank” what do you mean? Engine spins over but does not start or engine does not spin over? Third, have you checked for spark on both cylinders as soon as it quits? Fourth, have you sprayed some gas or carb cleaner into the carb as soon as it quits? Remember we are not standing next to you, with a strong drink in our hand, to see what is going on. You must paint us the best picture you can, before we have an idea what the problem might be. It could be fuel, spark or external electrical problems. Might even be a combination of two. Once the techs here have an idea of what is happening we will tell you how to proceed.

More info, are you joking? Guy wrote 3 novels up there LOL. I nodded off trying to read it all.

slomo

 

[Alphadog]

I had a model come in the shop like this and could never duplicate but every time it went home he had a problems. Flushed fuel system, cleaned pickup, checked fuel pump, and verified hoses were not pinched/kinked (Deere has a case out for this). Finally I was able to get it to do it for me, I put in line spark testers on and noticed they seemed weak. Replaced both coils and he never had an issue again. Seems they were going out and had issues when hot. Hope this helps.

Thanks for that info. I've actually thought about that, especially since the starter fluid didn't work, duh. The thing is that it's so random and sometimes shuts off within minutes and then sometimes it runs for long periods of time. Sometimes it will crank right back up immediately and sometimes it takes 30 minutes or more. As Rvanwart mentioned, it sometimes backfires when it shuts down, not always. Wouldn't surprise me if the coils are where I end up. Sorry for the novel slomo. Just want to make it clear as I can.

 

[Deleted member 97405]

I just read all the posts. Thankyou for the detailed description of your issue! Easiest way to differentiate between a fuel issue and electrical issue is to hit the choke when the engine starts to die. If it makes a difference, your issue is fuel related. If it doesnt make a difference, it is not fuel related. That being said, the one part not mentioned above is the interlock control module located under the dash. You can identify it by following the wires under the dash. It is held in place by a 10mm head screw. This is the 'brain unit' for the safety system. It has a time delay built into it. It can fail and randomly cut the spark to the coils. The way to properly test it is to disconnect the black wire at the engine. Mow your grass. If the engine never shuts off, the interlock module is your problem. Note: with the black kill wire disconnected, when you turn your key off, the engine will continue to run for a few seconds until the fuel shutoff solenoid on the carb kills the fuel. Use caution. I have replaced many of these modules and Deere has subbed them many times. Good luck!