JD Sabre Model 15.5 38inch won’t start, won’t roll. Advice?

[actioneer]

Hope this isn’t too much information, but it seems like multiple issues have happened at once. I’m new to riding mowers and at a loss. Has been running ok-ish, bought used just 2 months ago to cut about 1/4 acre lawn every week. Don't know how old it is but ID pic attached.

Mowing last week noticed the engine intermittently sputtering. There are bumpy spots in the lawn, and sometimes when my butt leaves the seat, it sputters because of the safety cutoff. But this happened on flat spots. I always mow in late afternoon so the grass is dry.

Today I just finished 30 minutes of mowing, it sputtered again on the bumpy spots but also on flat spots - again - where the seat wasn’t even jiggling, and 2 times, cut off completely like fuel starvation, when I was barely rolling. But it would start again.

After I (luckily) finished mowing, I tilted it on one side about 12” in the driveway and scraped all caked on clippings from under the deck. I lifted the seat and carefully examined the wires for something loose, but nada.

Afterwards it wouldn’t turn over at all, now theres only a very soft almost inaudible click.

And for some reason, now it won’t shift out of neutral or roll

Checked the obvious things
- park brake is disengaged (or engaged no difference)
- half tank of gas
- fuel filter is clean
- new gas
- the blade drive lever is not engaged
- transmission shift lever is in neutral
- seat is completely down
- depressing foot pedal/brake/clutch or not makes no difference

It has a brand new Apr.’21 battery but I cleaned the terminals and cables, and put my trickle charger on, which shows a full charge.

The headlight doesnt come on but I never noticed if it worked before.

I have the manual and under “Engine clicks" and "will not turn over”, I did the things I know how to do.

But I wondering if anything obvious comes to mind.. because the 2 issues - sputters/won’t start and won’t roll are related? Could it be the “operator presence” safety switch on the seat? Fuses? Spark plug?

I don’t have a truck or trailer so getting it hauled to a repair shop 30 mi. away will be a majorly expensive undertaking…

 

[bertsmobile1]

Firstly, no such thing as "too much information" , a line invented by the ignorant so they could use lack of knowledge as an excuse .

Starting with the no move situation
Jack up the rear of the mower so both wheels are free of the ground
Try to turn either wheel
if they move in opposite direction then the brake is locked on.
I am not totally familiar with that model but behind one wheel will be a little disc brake
The brake gets clogged up so fails to release .
Sabres with 15.5Hp engines came with either a K51 hydro drive ( will have a back & forward pedal ) or a manual box with 5 or 6 speeds & a reverse .
The manual box will have an external brake, the Hydro box could be internal brake

Now to the no start
The feint click is the fuel solenoid on the bottom of the carburettor .
You should be able to feel it when holding the solenoid.
This is good because it shows the fuse is intact and the mower is energised.

You should have a 4 pole starter solenoid which is obviously not working as it makes a very loud click or as I like to call it a Clang or Klunk.
Follow the heavy red wire back from the starter till it comes to a boxy looking thing.
This is the solenoid & should have 2 thick cables on the top and 2 thin wires on the bottom
One is black which will be ground and the other is purple which is battery voltage .
Both of these are switched ,
Confirm that the black shows ground when the key is in the start position & the purple is battery + volts with the key in the start position.
If either one does not happen let us know.

You can verify the solenoid is working by grounding the black wire terminal then jump from the Battery cable on the top to the purple wire on the bottom.
The solenoid should go klunk & the starter should spin the engine so be careful what you lean on .

Get back & let us know what you find.

 

[actioneer]

Thanks for trying to help. I found the release under the rear axle so I was able to roll it back into the garage.

With rear wheels elevated, they rotate easily, and in opposite directions. And depressing the brake/clutch pedal has no effect on them rotating. Once the rear wheels are off the ground, the park brake can’t be moved by hand from the off position. Would you still recommend I take off rear wheels and try to clean brakes?

Maybe I’m misunderstanding but there’s only one pedal and the shifter has only forward, neutral and reverse. I feel sure its a hydrostatic drive because it can shift from forward to reverse easily using only the shifter. It may be a very old mower, but it looks good at a glance. Attached are some pics.

I uploaded the whole manual (11MB pdf ) here on Google Drive should you be inclined to download it and have a look. Theres a wiring diagram in the back.

I really have no electrical experience to speak. You're saying theres a fuel solenoid, but also a starter solenoid? I think getting to the carburetor would require quite a bit of wrenching to take off the perforated cover...

I believe the starter is easy to spot on the right side but I don’t know where the solenoid is. I will continue searching and checking youtube vids. The local JD dealer says he has a solenoid for this mower for about $12, but its a 40 mi drive RT.

To do the solenoid checks you recommend, I’d need to buy a multimeter?

I see theres a lot of oil around there I never noticed before. I hope thats not a sign of blown head gasket or something terminal.

Pls. let me know if I misunderstood or failed to provide the info requested.

 

[bertsmobile1]

That is where JD put the solenoid.
However some one has been in there big time by the looks of the joiners on the cables .
Did you take the battery cables off ?
A PIA to get to but placed there to reduce the amount of wire used.
Remove both the wheel & battery

 

[actioneer]

I deleted that post (then yours showed up), because I've been poking around the battery case and found the real solenoid hidden between this unit (whatever it is) and the battery. The positive battery cable looks badly worn and the solenoid is basically hanging without being secured. Will post what I find. Thanks.

 

[actioneer]

I think I fixed it. [fingers x'ed).

With the battery out I got a good look at the solenoid and the mess of wires there and the fuse. It's location makes it a challenge to work on. The problem seemed to be the positive battery cable connection at the solenoid, where the rubber hood/dirt cover had melted all over and I couldn't see that the copper cable had separated from its endpiece connector. Also the last person who worked on it didn't bother getting the right length battery cable and instead, apparently just removed the 2 bolts holding the solenoid to the frame to gain an add'l 6" length. The solenoid was just hanging by all its connecting wires! I tried to repair the cable but ended up taking a trip to AutoZone.

With a new battery cable and with the solenoid bolted down, it starts up again right off, and shifts into gears and moves as intended. What a nice surprise! I haven't mowed yet but its a good direction...

So my initial thought about the seat sensor was misplaced. And this kind of mower doesn't just roll because its in neutral, it has to be running apparently.

Thanks for suffering through my long post.

So some very frustrating hours spent but overall a good learning experience for me (and possible others here) as I'm going to have fix it myself as much as possible going forward.

Pull out the battery first and check all the connections to the solenoid!

Thanks for your help!

 

[bertsmobile1]

People do all sorts of silly things .
I could write a book about all of what I have come across & I have only been doing this for 8 years
Remove both solenoids & test both of them as described earlier.
I have seen some one replace a solenoid & battery cable because they bought the wrong battery with the terminals the wrong way round.
There was more than enough cable to turn the battery around so the terminals were to the back of the mower.
If the solenoid they fitted has only 1 small ( trigger ) terminal the body will be the other terminal
And starter solenoids are not polarity sensitive .
Looks like you are going to have a bit of a wiring job.
at this point in time I would suggest you go to the JD web page & order the JD technical manual for your mower .
IT will have very detailed wiring diagrams , testing instructions & repair proceedures .

 

[actioneer]

Thanks for your help Bertsmobile1. I did find the technical manual for this Sabre 15/38 with a free download here should anyone be interested. Amazing number of parts go into the thing but hopefully it will stay assembled while I need it.

So my experience for anyone who might have read this far - if your old mower won't start or won't roll, checking out the battery cables and solenoid wires worked for me.