IS500z: Fix or replace engine or mower

Auto Doc's said:
Hello S.,

I worked as a small engine mechanic back in the late 70's when I first started out. Most parts were kept in stock including overhaul components for the most common brands. It was economical back then to perform a basic overhaul. Now the parts are sky high or no longer available and the labor would easily exceed the cost of a new engine.

It was fairly steady work until later when the OHV (throw away) engines came out, then the bottom dropped out of the repair business. Most engines were not worth the effort to overhaul because many of them would break a connecting rod and punch through the block.

Aside from that most engines are not built to be saved anymore, just ran until they quit or blow up. Manufacturing engineers are creating the perfect disposable engines. Manufacturing loves it because they can sell more equipment and make profits just to add their junk to the salvage piles.
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Thanks so much!
 
Auto Doc's said:
Hello T,

Back when I started in the late 70's we actually learned how to perform reliable overhauls and parts were abundant for reasonable prices, so it was practical. Of course, we were usually trained by more experienced elders who were around in the cast iron engine days.

Now, no one is trained much beyond changing a spark plug and air filter. Overhauls are not even practical because of absorbent shop labor prices and them only employing untrained people (breathing bodies).
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I am all self taught from online watching YouTube, reading service manuals, and forums such as this one. I can, and have rebuilt engines. Being a one person shop, I don’t have the time to focus on rebuilding an engine, because the pace of work is too busy. Also the cost of parts and labor are too high to justify the expense.
I disagree that the quality of many engines these days has dropped to the point that some engines are not worth being rebuilt. Under the correct circumstances, the right engine is worth the effort to rebuild. However, finding a shop to do it, unless you want to DIY, is difficult.
 
Tiger Small Engine said:
Very few shops rebuild small engines anymore, including me. It takes too long, too much liability, and not enough money for all the work.
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If you charge a proper hourly rate for your time, what is the deal then? Charge the customer for parts and your labor. Annotate hey this is a USED/abused engine that was rebuilt with OEM parts on the receipt. Have the customer put their initials by it confirming they understand. Make a video of you doing all the work. Upload it and get paid off youtube. Also to show a judge in court if needed proving you did quality work. Customer says no then have a nice day. I'm sure you have PLENTY of other work coming in the doors. Explain YOU do proper work with pride. Then watch them call their wife on their $1800.00 cell phone driving a $100,000 plus pickup truck.

With all of today's price gouging, I would set my hourly labor rate at a minimum of $150.00 if not more. If you are not charging enough then rectify that. Mower shops around here in mowing season are slammed all day.
 
There isn't a single mower shop around me that will open an engine. Not even for a simple sump gasket. They don't do valve jobs either they order a new head. Asked the JD dealer i get my parts from and they say not cost effective to open an engine. I used to rebuild engines till the machine shop i used closed many years ago and parts went out of sight. Not cost effective for me to do any machine work either. Anything more than a sump gasket, head gasket or camshaft isn't worth opening an engine.
 
I do not do any internal work anymore for customers. They do not understand why costs are so high. I only do my own internal work up to a point where a machine shop is needed.

All of the machine shops that used to do boring work for me have closed down or just refuse to take in small jobs because they don't have the tooling.
 
slomo said:
If you charge a proper hourly rate for your time, what is the deal then? Charge the customer for parts and your labor. Annotate hey this is a USED/abused engine that was rebuilt with OEM parts on the receipt. Have the customer put their initials by it confirming they understand. Make a video of you doing all the work. Upload it and get paid off youtube. Also to show a judge in court if needed proving you did quality work. Customer says no then have a nice day. I'm sure you have PLENTY of other work coming in the doors. Explain YOU do proper work with pride. Then watch them call their wife on their $1800.00 cell phone driving a $100,000 plus pickup truck.

With all of today's price gouging, I would set my hourly labor rate at a minimum of $150.00 if not more. If you are not charging enough then rectify that. Mower shops around here in mowing season are slammed all day.
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Hi Slomo,

Having the ability to do internal engine repairs and having customers willing to pay for it are far and away from each other.

Our society has become a "throw it away and get another" society. Even fixing good machines, with a lot of life left in them, and trying to resell them has become a losing venture.

Everyone wants a lifetime warranty/ guarantee.
 
slomo said:
If you charge a proper hourly rate for your time, what is the deal then? Charge the customer for parts and your labor. Annotate hey this is a USED/abused engine that was rebuilt with OEM parts on the receipt. Have the customer put their initials by it confirming they understand. Make a video of you doing all the work. Upload it and get paid off youtube. Also to show a judge in court if needed proving you did quality work. Customer says no then have a nice day. I'm sure you have PLENTY of other work coming in the doors. Explain YOU do proper work with pride. Then watch them call their wife on their $1800.00 cell phone driving a $100,000 plus pickup truck.

With all of today's price gouging, I would set my hourly labor rate at a minimum of $150.00 if not more. If you are not charging enough then rectify that. Mower shops around here in mowing season are slammed all day.
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$150 per hour is about $25 to $50 per hour over average. So let’s say you do charge $150/hour and rebuild an engine completely. So maybe $1500 in labor and $400 in parts. Who is going to pay $1900 for a rebuilt engine that can be bought for $3000 new?! The math doesn’t work.
Again, I need to emphasize how busy it can be for a one person shop who sweeps the floor, and turns all the wrenches, and everything in between. There is no way to effectively focus on rebuilding an engine with the phone ringing off the hook, customers coming in, and 2.5 weeks out on repairs.
Literally nobody in my area rebuilds engines anymore that I know of on small engines for customers.
 
Tiger Small Engine said:
Who is going to pay $1900 for a rebuilt engine that can be bought for $3000 new?
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Person looking to save $1100.00. That new engine will have labor to install so it will obviously be more.

You and I know if WE did the work, would be a fraction of your hypothetical price. People have to eat and keep the lights on. I get it.

My point was to charge more for your GOOD work. If you want it done right, go to your shop. If people don't want to pay it that is on them. Then watch them drive off in that new Cadillac Escalade.

You don't have to cheapen down your service just to get a couple mower jobs if you are booked out weeks plus. I'm just a ****** home owner. I know zero about owning a mower shop.
 
My question.

So do you shop owners put on new OEM carbs or cheaper clones (if you can buy OEM). Remember people don't want to spend any money on mower repairs. Those Honda clones are like 10% of OEM prices.

Here's another one. If it was my shop, I would charge $15.00 to power wash their filthy machine before I did any work. I cringe when I watch people open up engines seeing a ton of grit and oil sitting all over the engine. You know they are going to brush against it allowing all that grit to get inside. Or the guy that pulls the filthy carb, cleans it internally then shoots brake cleaner and air on the outside when done LOL.
 
The chineese carbs are getting better. If a honda or a honda clone comes in with carb issues i just order a $15 carb. I have changed dozens and they work just fine. I change a couple dozen carbs a year. Most folks won't spend the money for an OEM carb for a hand held. I get burned a couple times a year with the chineese carbs but that is out of a couple dozen or so. Zama carbs are all made in china.

I pressure wash about every riding mower that comes in. Not a fan of bird crap or working on a greasy mess.
 
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