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I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

Mar 6, 2013#1

T

tso

Shopping for my first ZTR. Mowing 2-3 acres per week, and every other week mowing an additional 3 acres. Relatively flat, grass is in decent condition but it's not a Scott's lawn and I'm not trying to make it that way. I mow around lots of trees, flower beds, landscape gardens, gardens, chickens, children, etc :confused2: I live in Michigan and will mow for maybe 30 weeks a year at best. I'm guessing 150 hrs per year at most.

Most people that I know who have used a certain brand are pretty loyal to that brand and believe whatever propaganda that their respective manufacturer tells them. So, I'm hoping that someone here can give me an opinion on their experiences with the below brands and tell me something I haven't found in general research. They're all priced relatively close to each other. They all use 1 of 3 identical engines, they all use pretty much the same transmission, tires, belts, gas tanks, etc etc etc. It seems like I'm basically buying a brand name and a mowing deck, and a color:laughing:

Here's what I'm finding in my area:

Bobcat FastCat Pro 61", Kaw 24hp, ZT-3400 trans, $6299.
eXmark Pioneer S 60", Kohler 27hp, Zt-3400 trans, $6999.
Dixie Chopper Magnum 2760 61" (last year's close-out model), ZT-3400 trans, $5599.
Scag Freedom Z 61", Briggs 30hp (last years) for $6509 or Kaw 24hp (this years) for $7009.
Grasshopper 226v 61", Kohler 27hp, not sure on trans, $6923.
Hustler FasTrak 60" or FasTrak Super Duty 60", looks like both use ZT-3100 trans, looks like both use Kaw 24hp, $5794 or $6479.
Also looked (online) at a Dixon Ultra 61" OR the Husqvarna 6128 61", both with 27hp Kohler, ZT-3400 trans, and under $4999... but I can't find much about them on the forums and they look less refined than the others.

They're all pretty similar, all close in price, all have similar financing...

I'd like to hear specific reasons why I should AVOID any of these particular mowers, OR why I should buy 1 over another?

Thanks in advance, Tim.

Mar 6, 2013#2

C

ced

I have ran exmark, John deere and hustler. The hustler is the smoothest operator of them all and with flex forks offers a ride that can't be beat. Just my opinion.

Mar 6, 2013#3

M

Mad Mackie

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

I have a Hustler X-ONE with a 60" rear discharge deck and a Kawi FX730. This is one sweet machine and it is used primarily for cemetery service. It was new last Aug and has about 50 hours on it. I also have a 2008 Scag Tiger Cub with a collection system on a 48" deck. A fairly decent machine however I have to repower it as the L/H cylinder is loosing compression by the rings. My new engine just arrived, another Briggs and I will do the changeover soon.
Flex forks were not recommended for the Hustler as it gets rough treatment around cemetery stones so it is a straight forward machine with only a rear hitch as an option to tow the fertilizer spreader.
Later
Mad Mackie in CT:smile::laughing:

Mar 6, 2013#4

djdicetn

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

tso said:
Shopping for my first ZTR. Here's what I'm finding in my area:

Bobcat FastCat Pro 61", Kaw 24hp, ZT-3400 trans, $6299.
eXmark Pioneer S 60", Kohler 27hp, Zt-3400 trans, $6999.
Dixie Chopper Magnum 2760 61" (last year's close-out model), ZT-3400 trans, $5599.
Scag Freedom Z 61", Briggs 30hp (last years) for $6509 or Kaw 24hp (this years) for $7009.
Grasshopper 226v 61", Kohler 27hp, not sure on trans, $6923.
Hustler FasTrak 60" or FasTrak Super Duty 60", looks like both use ZT-3100 trans, looks like both use Kaw 24hp, $5794 or $6479.
Also looked (online) at a Dixon Ultra 61" OR the Husqvarna 6128 61", both with 27hp Kohler, ZT-3400 trans, and under $4999... but I can't find much about them on the forums and they look less refined than the others.

TSO,
I've never looked at the Bobcat's, or Grasshopper's but considered the others you mentioned when I bought my ZTR last fall. Based upon what I've heard on the forums, the Exmarks and Grasshoppers are very good but to me seem a bit pricier than other brands. The Scags also have a very good reputation, and I was very impressed when I looked at them but they were a bit out of my price range too. The Dixie Chopper's appear to be considerable bang-for-your-buck and I've not heard anything bad about them. I made offers on both a 54" Hustler Fastrak Super Duty and Dixon Ultra(52") and just so you know the Dixons are now made by Husqvarna but just a better quality product. I started out interested in the Husqvarna's(because of the low prices), but I was really wanting a "commercial quality" ZTR and abandoned them early on. I also made an offer on a Bad Boy Outlaw, which is a "beast" of a machine but has some "mixed reviews". It did, however have some features other brands did not(like a massive 5gauge deck...yeah, a solid quarter inch thick and gas tanks on each side that 'swing out' for easy access for maintenance). For the money, you may want to take a look just to compare to the others. Also, like you mentioned about "brand loyalty" I ended up pulling the trigger on a 2012 52" Gravely Pro-Turn XDZ Commercial ZTR and got a "real deal" at approx. $1300 off the MSRP(plus taxes) for a 2013 model. With a 3-year Residential/2-year Commercial Warranty(any ZTR with a Commercial Warranty is an indication of extreme durability), cast-iron spindles with 3-year Warranty, 7gauge Lifetime Warranty deck, "FX" series commercial Kawasaki and ZT-3400 trannies the Gravely Pro-Turn 152 ended up being my favorite of everything I had looked at. I would highly recommend that you check them out if you have a Gravely dealer nearby and if by chance he has any 2012 models left you may get as sweet of a deal as I did. I have "never looked back" and love my new Gravely(only 5.4 hours with the few times I mowed last fall). My best advice is to not be afraid to "counter-offer" a dealer's first price quote. Just like a car dealer, their pricing IS negotiable. Also, if you are "replacing a 60" lawn tractor" with a ZTR you may want to consider a smaller deck. I replaced a 60" Craftsman lawn tractor with a 52" ZTR and I can "barely" get it in my garage where I had parked the Craftsman. Plus a ZTR is so much faster and able to do 180 degree turnarounds that you can cut the same area as a 60" LT in half the time, Just saying. Good luck finding the right ZTR for your needs(there are an awful LOT of good ones out there and my head was "spinning" from tech specs, comparisons and which one to buy after shopping them for a while:0)

Mar 6, 2013#5

T

tso

Good Info guys, thanks DJD...

My tractor dealer is the one selling the BobCat... He also sells Gravely. The BobCat was a closeout hence the low price, the Gravely was at around $6800.

I've heard good things about Gravely.

I've seen BadBoy commercials, they look good, if less refined than the others. Problem is there isn't a dealer close by (75 miles) and I haven't seen any pricing on them.

Mar 6, 2013#6

lawn mower fanatic

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

tso said:
I've seen BadBoy commercials, they look good, if less refined than the others. Problem is there isn't a dealer close by (75 miles) and I haven't seen any pricing on them.

Personally I would not get a BadBoy mower. Some people like them, but others REALLY do not.

Mar 6, 2013#7

djdicetn

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

tso said:
Good Info guys, thanks DJD...

My tractor dealer is the one selling the BobCat... He also sells Gravely. The BobCat was a closeout hence the low price, the Gravely was at around $6800.

I've heard good things about Gravely.

I've seen BadBoy commercials, they look good, if less refined than the others. Problem is there isn't a dealer close by (75 miles) and I haven't seen any pricing on them.

Which model(year) Gravely was that. I got my 2012 Pro-Turn XDZ(152) for $6800 out-the door and the 2013 has a MSRP of $7499(plus tax). Below is a link to the Bad Boy website(not sure what your Zip Code is to see about dealers). Also, if you hang out on these forums you'll find many who will recommend the Kawasaki engines as the best you can get(and "FR" series means Residential, "FS" heavy Duty and "FX" Commercial). A dealer close by with a good reputation is a very important thing and like I mentioned, if a ZTR has a "Commercial Warranty" it's built for heavy duty daily usage and will last a homeowner a lifetime in most cases. Just as an aside, the Cub Cadet Z-Force and Tank commercial units in that picture of the Grasshopper are also high-quality machines as is the Z-Master series of Toros(if you have a Toro dealer nearby). Whatever you do, don't buy from a big-box retailer like Lowes or Home Depot because they do NOT "service what they sell" and you won't find true "commercial quality" ZTR's there.

http://www.badboymowers.com/

P.S.
As pointed out by user LMF, owners of Bad Boys either love them or hate them which isn't a very good sign(although a local dealer with a "good reputation" will back that product if they sell it). The dealer that carried the Dixon I made an offer on also carried the Bad Boy and he assured me that in the 3 years he had sold them he had not had an unsatisied customer and very few problems. But it's a gamble anytime with some equipment purchases that you can end up with a problem-oriented machine. That's why the Warranty and dealer reputation is soooooooooo important!!!

Mar 6, 2013#8

T

tso

Okay, thanks for that... Not sure on which model the gravely was, I'll have to call them back and ask.

So Cub Cadet is buying Toros for their higher and machines? Who is making their lower and models? I remember a time when MTD made 80 percent of the mowers out there, I'm assuming that something like that is still happening with the lower end units, but I have not mower shopped in a long time so I'm not up to date on all the gossip

Does anyone know if the Dixon Ultra is any good? As gay as it sounds, the blue would match my tractor's color nicely ;-)

Mar 6, 2013#9

T

tso

Also, the Hustler dealer told me $200 installed for the Flex Forks... What's the skinny on those, are they worth it ?

Mar 6, 2013#10

lawn mower fanatic

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

tso said:
What's the skinny on those, are they worth it ?

Try this site: flex forks worth it?

Mar 6, 2013#11

T

tso

Well OK... According to that thread people really like the forks

Mar 6, 2013#12

Old Goat

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

tso said:
Bobcat FastCat Pro 61", Kaw 24hp, ZT-3400 trans, $6299.
eXmark Pioneer S 60", Kohler 27hp, Zt-3400 trans, $6999.
Dixie Chopper Magnum 2760 61" (last year's close-out model), ZT-3400 trans, $5599.
Scag Freedom Z 61", Briggs 30hp (last years) for $6509 or Kaw 24hp (this years) for $7009.
Grasshopper 226v 61", Kohler 27hp, not sure on trans, $6923.
Hustler FasTrak 60" or FasTrak Super Duty 60", looks like both use ZT-3100 trans, looks like both use Kaw 24hp, $5794 or $6479.
Also looked (online) at a Dixon Ultra 61" OR the Husqvarna 6128 61", both with 27hp Kohler, ZT-3400 trans, and under $4999...

I feel your pain! But my names not Bill.
I looked at ALL of these makes very hard, including Gravely.

After 2 years of thinking about this and driving myself almost crazy, I settled on a 54" Big Dog R754 model.
I may have gone a little large, but we have 2.25 acres to cut and this machine is well, well built.
What finished the deal for me is when I discovered that these are built by Excel Industries, which built the first ZTR made in 1966!
You owe it to yourself to look at them well before you buy. I got my R754 for $5247 out the door, Tax included.
Not as commercial duty as The Hustler line they build, but plenty sturdy for residential use.

Rode mine today for a while with my neighbor watching who owns a Dixon. When I got off of it, the first thing he said was "I want one, where did you get it?" This mower is a "BIG DOG".

You need to check them out at your closest dealer before you pay the piper.

Residential and Commercial Zero Turn Radius Lawn Mowers and Tractors - Big Dog Mowers

Charles

Mar 6, 2013#13

djdicetn

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

tso said:
Okay, thanks for that... Not sure on which model the gravely was, I'll have to call them back and ask.

So Cub Cadet is buying Toros for their higher and machines? Who is making their lower and models? I remember a time when MTD made 80 percent of the mowers out there, I'm assuming that something like that is still happening with the lower end units, but I have not mower shopped in a long time so I'm not up to date on all the gossip

Does anyone know if the Dixon Ultra is any good? As gay as it sounds, the blue would match my tractor's color nicely ;-)

tso,
Hope you didn't get the recomendation about Cub Cub Cadet Z-Force's & Tanks and the Toro Z-Masters confused(in your first sentence about CC buying Toros)???? Cub Cadet builds their ZTR's and Toro builds theirs!! Of course, Exmark on the other hand WAS bought out by Toro and those two ZTR's are almost identical(except for the decks, which are exclusively a Toro deck or an Exmark deck on each machine). And I was wrong in my previous post.....I made an offer for the 52" Dixon DX152(the DX100 series is a step above the Ultra and the DX100's are "true commercial" mowers). The Ultra series is a high-end Residential unit with some "commercial features". Based upon the other ZTR's you have looked at I would not recommend the Ultra(but the DX100's would rate with some of the others you listed). The Dixon dealer had given me a $6,391 "out-the-door" price for the Dixon DX152 and it would have been my second choice behind the Gravely. The Big Dog mentioned by user Old Goat is a solid high-end Residential ZTR and I would consider it before I would the Dixon Ultra. Again, the Big Dog being made by the parent company that makes Hustler ZTR's is a strong point for the Big Dog(the 54" Hustler Fastrak Super Duty was third on my list, but the dealer wouldn't budge off $7,100 and the Gravely at $6,800 OTD was a no brainer). Again, good luck searching for the best ZTR to meet your needs.

Mar 6, 2013#14

T

tso

djdicetn said:
tso,
Hope you didn't get the recomendation about Cub Cub Cadet Z-Force's & Tanks and the Toro Z-Masters confused(in your first sentence about CC buying Toros)???? Cub Cadet builds their ZTR's and Toro builds theirs!! Of course, Exmark on the other hand WAS bought out by Toro and those two ZTR's are almost identical(except for the decks, which are exclusively a Toro deck or an Exmark deck on each machine). And I was wrong in my previous post.....I made an offer for the 52" Dixon DX152(the DX100 series is a step above the Ultra and the DX100's are "true commercial" mowers). The Ultra series is a high-end Residential unit with some "commercial features". Based upon the other ZTR's you have looked at I would not recommend the Ultra(but the DX100's would rate with some of the others you listed). The Dixon dealer had given me a $6,391 "out-the-door" price for the Dixon DX152 and it would have been my second choice behind the Gravely. The Big Dog mentioned by user Old Goat is a solid high-end Residential ZTR and I would consider it before I would the Dixon Ultra. Again, the Big Dog being made by the parent company that makes Hustler ZTR's is a strong point for the Big Dog(the 54" Hustler Fastrak Super Duty was third on my list, but the dealer wouldn't budge off $7,100 and the Gravely at $6,800 OTD was a no brainer). Again, good luck searching for the best ZTR to meet your needs.

Okay, sorry about that... I miss read what you typed and I thought you meant the Cub Cadet was a Toro... I went back and read that again !

I talked to a dealer today who sells Scag and Toro. He says he has cut a lot of grass for different companies in his time before working here, he felt that the Scag was way better than the Toro... Until you stepped up to a very high end Toro commercial unit which quickly became more expensive than I want to spend. He said that it it was for commercial use, he would spend the extra $500 for this year's model with a Kawasaki, over the close outs from last year with the 30 horse Briggs. He says he is seen more problems with the Briggs than the Kawasaki. However, he said that with the amount I will be mowing, he wasn't sure that the $500 extra would be worth going to the Kawasaki.

I'd like to go sit on each mower, the problem is that only the grasshopper and Exmark are local.. The other dealers are 25+ miles away.

Mar 7, 2013#15

T

tso

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

What do you guys think about this?

Grasshopper 225 72" cut with 629 hrs, very local to me (dealership sells Grasshopper). 25hp Kohler Pro.

$4995

I'm not sure on the year.

EDIT::: Ok, just called them, it's an '03 so no warranty left. But, that's probably a $10,000 mower new.

Mar 7, 2013#16

Old Goat

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

JMO, I wouldn't get anywhere close to a Kohler engine.

Mar 7, 2013#17

T

tso

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

Old Goat said:
JMO, I wouldn't get anywhere close to a Kohler engine.

Can you tell me why? I don't have any experience with any of them...

Mar 7, 2013#18

djdicetn

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

tso said:
What do you guys think about this?

Grasshopper 225 72" cut with 629 hrs, very local to me (dealership sells Grasshopper). 25hp Kohler Pro.

$4995

I'm not sure on the year.

EDIT::: Ok, just called them, it's an '03 so no warranty left. But, that's probably a $10,000 mower new.

IMHO, I wouldn't have spent $5K on a 10-yr-old used mower with 629(most likely "commercial") hours on it when for less than $1800 more(I assume the $4995 would be plus tax) I got a brand new(0.5 hours) Commercial ZTR. Does the dealer have maintenance records for that Grasshopper? Did he tell you why the owner(landcape company) traded it in(or how the dealer obtained it)? Maybe others will say something different, but that's how I would look at it.

P.S.
User old goat may be referring to the Kohler Courage line of engines that if you search this forum you will find a lot of information about major design flaws in those engines. The Kohler Pro engines may very well be fine but the consensus I found was that the Kawasaki's were the most reliable all things considered. Both Kohler and Briggs & Stratton make some very good engines(I had a 1995 16HP B & S Vanguard that ran great for the 17 years that the lawn tractor lasted without ever using a drop of oil, but had a 2006 24HP B & S Intek I wouln't give to my worst enemy).

Mar 7, 2013#19

Old Goat

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

tso said:
Can you tell me why? I don't have any experience with any of them...

Do some searching here and other places and you'll probably find like I did of multiple engine troubles included cracked blocks etc.
Primarily the Courage engine, but that was enough for me.

B&S engines ain't what they used to were, either. The last mower I had with a v-twin, I had to pull the engine to reseal the crankshaft with only a year run time. Ridiculous.

Mar 7, 2013#20

T

tso

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

djdicetn said:
IMHO, I wouldn't have spent $5K on a 10-yr-old used mower with 629(most likely "commercial") hours on it when for less than $1800 more(I assume the $4995 would be plus tax) I got a brand new(0.5 hours) Commercial ZTR. Does the dealer have maintenance records for that Grasshopper? Did he tell you why the owner(landcape company) traded it in(or how the dealer obtained it)? Maybe others will say something different, but that's how I would look at it.
.

Good point... however that particular mower is probably $10k new being the 72" deck. An extra $1500 buys me a new 60" with warranty... just wondering if that price was worth considering (or adding to the list to consider) based off the NEW pricing of the unit. If I end up considering it, I'll definitely do like you suggest and ask those questions to the dealer.

Mar 7, 2013#21

djdicetn

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

tso said:
Good point... however that particular mower is probably $10k new being the 72" deck. An extra $1500 buys me a new 60" with warranty... just wondering if that price was worth considering (or adding to the list to consider) based off the NEW pricing of the unit. If I end up considering it, I'll definitely do like you suggest and ask those questions to the dealer.

tso,
One thing I really disliked about the Grasshoppers(I did look at them when I was shopping) was that it is VERY difficult to get any pricing on them except at a dealer(their website doesn't give eny MSRP prices). I do not see a 225 series anymore on the Grasshopper website, just a 220, 223 & 227. The 227 must be the current replacement for the 225(it's the only one in the 200 Series that comes in a 72") and it shows a 27 hp, 2-cylinder, Kohler Command PRO engine. How did you determine that a new one like the 2003 model costs $10K(if the dealer told me that, I'd have to find a second opinion)??
P.S.
A 72" ZTR is a whole lot of mower(like I mentioned before, a smaller deck ZTR out-mows a much larger lawn tractor). My father-in-law spent $11k on a Kubota diesel and he mows 4-5 acres. When I mentioned that to dealers when I was shopping they said he 'overspent" and would have done fine on that much area with a 54"-60" in about the same amount of time. Like I said earlier I am GLAD I didn't get anything bigger than a 52" for my 1.5 acres and I too really "overspent" and would have been fine with a 48" for that much yard. Maybe other users will chime in to confirm/or deny my recommendation. With your 2-3 acres weekly and occaisionally an additional 3 acres a 60" would most likely be plenty for that.

Mar 7, 2013#22

T

tso

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

That was the dealer who said it was around $10k new... The new 226 60" he quoted me was roughly $7k, so maybe he was a bit high on his estimate, but I'd still guess it would be $8500+ new NOW judging on what I'm seeing from other brands (with the jump from 60" to 72").

ALSO

Spoke with 2 other dealers (Big Dog and BadBoy) that are also around 25+ miles away, here's what they quoted me:

BigDog R-Series 60". KawFR691, ZT-3100, $6225
BigDog R-Diablo series 60". KawFX730, ZT-3400, $7845 (with the "Flex-Forks" added in the cost)... He said the BigDog's were Red Hustlers with 1-year behind models

BadBoy CZT Elite 60", KawFS726, ZT-3400, $7662.

So, only the BigDog R-Series with a smaller engine than the others I'm shopping, was competitive in price to the rest of the list.

Mar 7, 2013#23

T

tso

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

And...

The Gravely is the Pro-Turn 160 60" with KawFX730v, ZT-3400, suspension seat, $6800

That's from the same dealer (my tractor dealer) that sells the Bobcat. Said they sell about equal numbers of both mowers. Says the Gravely seat is a bit better than the Bobcat. Said manufacturer support is excellent on both. Said they couldn't steer me to either one for any pros/cons and it would come down to personal feel once I sit on them.

I figure that's how it's gonna be for all these damm mowers!

Mar 7, 2013#24

djdicetn

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

tso said:
And...

The Gravely is the Pro-Turn 160 60" with KawFX730v, ZT-3400, suspension seat, $6800

That's from the same dealer (my tractor dealer) that sells the Bobcat. Said they sell about equal numbers of both mowers. Says the Gravely seat is a bit better than the Bobcat. Said manufacturer support is excellent on both. Said they couldn't steer me to either one for any pros/cons and it would come down to personal feel once I sit on them.

I figure that's how it's gonna be for all these damm mowers!

tso,
I know everybody wants you to get what they have.....but that sounds like a VERY good deal on that Gravely XDZ 160(same as my 52" with a bigger Kawasaki engine). Also "CC displacement" is more important than "HP". All I can say is pay very close attention to the Kawasaki "series"(the FR691 on Big Dog..."FR"= Residential engine and FX730 on Gravely..."FX"= Commercial engine). The full suspension seat is really a nice ride and you need to closely and compare deck thickness, reinforced edge and reinforced spindle mounts, 3-year warrany on spindles, 3-year Residential/2-Year Commercial Warranty, Lifetime deck Warranty on the Gravely to the others you are looking at. Also closely compare the commercial chain-hung and easy deck leveling on the Gravely, then look at the others. You really MUST compare "the build" and "the components" and "the Warranty" before pulling the trigger on a purchase of several thousand dollars. That's why I ended up in my Gravely!!!

Mar 7, 2013#25

Old Goat

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

tso said:
I figure that's how it's gonna be for all these damm mowers!

Welcome to the reality of ZTR shopping!

Mar 7, 2013#26

djdicetn

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

Old Goat said:
Welcome to the reality of ZTR shopping!

Old Goat,
Yah, user tso is going through what we did and with as many good ZTR's that are out there it's no easy decision. Like that BigDog R-Diablo series he mentioned....basically a Hustler Fastrak Super Duty(which I made an offer on myself), but it's hard to get away from spending $7K on something that's "Commercial Quality" no matter which brand it is. You figured out that getting a "heavy duty" high-end residential Big Dog with some commercial features was going to meet your needs and save you some money. But tso will have to be careful because that Bad Boy CZT is priced like a Commercial, but has the "FS" series Kawasaki(Heavy Duty, but not Commercial). He'll have to go up to the Bad Boy Outlaw to get full Commercial features but he'll have to spend a few more(but not much more) than the CZT.

Mar 7, 2013#27

T

tso

Yeah, right now I'm most likely ruling out the BigDog and BadBoy mowers. Like you mentioned, less durable engines or much higher cost.

The BobCat is looking great at $6299 with the Kaw FX.

The Hustler FasTrak Super Duty looks good at $6479 but I'm disappointed that it runs the ZT-3100 Trans when the others have the ZT-3400. It might not make a difference for my use, but over the years it might... Especially considering I'm hoping to keep this mower until I run it into the ground.

The Gravely looks good at $6800.

But the Dixie Chopper looks REALLY good at $5599, even though its last years model with a Briggs 30 horse. I haven't known anyone to complain about the DC... It's kinda ugly tho.

Mar 7, 2013#28

lawn mower fanatic

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

tso said:
It's kinda ugly tho.

I agree....DC's aren't the most "sleek and stylish" mowers! But it really doesn't matter what they look like. If I was looking at this lawn tractor and this was the mower that most fit my needs I would buy it even though it is one of the ugliest mowers I've seen!

(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t503/98Murray/yardman_zpsdd3c4144.jpg)

Mar 7, 2013#29

Carscw

lawn mower fanatic said:
I agree....DC's aren't the most "sleek and stylish" mowers! But it really doesn't matter what they look like. If I was looking at this lawn tractor and this was the mower that most fit my needs I would buy it even though it is one of the ugliest mowers I've seen!
<img src="http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12782"/>
(http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t503/98Murray/yardman_zpsdd3c4144.jpg)

It's a shame they parked that nice looking yardman next to that ugly green junk Deere

Sent from my iPhone using LMF

Mar 7, 2013#30

T

tso

Carscw said:
It's a shame they parked that nice looking yardman next to that ugly green junk Deere

Sent from my iPhone using LMF

LOL, I'm not a Deere fan myself...

Mar 8, 2013#31

djdicetn

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

tso said:
LOL, I'm not a Deere fan myself...

When I was shopping ZTR's and looked at the John Deere's I was a bit surprised that the JD Zero Turns that were comparable to the $6K-$7K ZTR's of other brands I had looked at had 10gauge "stamped" decks(on the JD's). The JD salesman told me that JD research had determined that the "rounded shape" of a stamped deck had been proven to give a better cut that the "squared/boxed corners" shape of the fabricated decks. I thought he was blowing smoke(because the real expensive line of John Deere ZTR's.......yep.....had fabricated decks). I wonder, though, if some of the comments I see on forum threads about preferring the cut of a lawn tractor is related to them having the stamped decks???? Anyone's thoughts on that?

Mar 11, 2013#32

J

jklowe48

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

Hey guys 1st post here...I have been reading and learning so far.....Went to my local Hustler dealer today, still recovering from sticker stock....

Hustler FasTrak 60" or FasTrak Super Duty 60", looks like both use ZT-3100 trans, looks like both use Kaw 24hp, $5794 or $6479.

I got a price of $6799.00 before tax for super duty 54" cut. Why such a price difference???? A 54" in NC is way more than a 60" in MI. The only bite I got was he would take 4% off if I paid cash,which is still $6527.04 plus tax.

The Hustler comes highly reccomended from friends who are owners, but from what I'm seeing here and what my friends told me they paid I might move to something else if Hustler dealer doesn't come down.

jklowe48

Mar 11, 2013#33

M

mowerman05

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

I own a 8000.00 deere with stamped deck and a 3500.00 great dane with a fab deck and I see no difference in finish cut all things being equal.

Mar 11, 2013#34

M

Mad Mackie

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

Hi jklowe48,
Go to the Hustler website and check the specs on the Fastrack and Fastrack Superduty. The Kawasaki FS engines have a standard air filter, but the FX engines have the HD two Stage air filtration and are a more expensive engine. Kawasaki engines on Hustlers machines come with a 3 year warranty where generally they have a two year warranty. Hydro-Gear 3100s are fine drive units.
Hustlers have the least involved maintenance program of any ZTR that I have dealt with.
The difference in the area prices NC verses MI is shipping as the manufacturer is close to MI.
I bought a new Hustler X-ONE 60" rear discharge deck last Aug, nice machine and has an FX730V Kawi/26 HP, sweet engine!!
Don't nickel dime yourself!
Mad Mackie in CT

Mar 12, 2013#35

djdicetn

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

Mad Mackie said:
Hi jklowe48,
Go to the Hustler website and check the specs on the Fastrack and Fastrack Superduty. The Kawasaki FS engines have a standard air filter, but the FX engines have the HD two Stage air filtration and are a more expensive engine. Kawasaki engines on Hustlers machines come with a 3 year warranty where generally they have a two year warranty. Hydro-Gear 3100s are fine drive units.
Hustlers have the least involved maintenance program of any ZTR that I have dealt with.
The difference in the area prices NC verses MI is shipping as the manufacturer is close to MI.
I bought a new Hustler X-ONE 60" rear discharge deck last Aug, nice machine and has an FX730V Kawi/26 HP, sweet engine!!
Don't nickel dime yourself!
Mad Mackie in CT

jklowe48,

As user Mad Mackie pointed out, the different series of the Kawasaki engines denotes the "rating" for those engines(FR____ indicates an engine rated for Residential applications, FS____ indicates Heavy Duty and FX____ indicates Commercial). There is an additional spec for each of those that indicates how many "hours" these engine series are designed to "last" with the progression being FR the least, FS longer and FX longest. As I interpret this, it is a "guideline", not a "guarantee" since, as Mad Mackie pointed out they may all very well carry the same 3 year Kawasaki warranty. But, as he mentioned, each "step up" will give you better filtration systems and other bells & whistles. Myself, I wanted a Kawasaki FX series because if I was going to spend several thousand dollars on a "Commercial quality" ZTR mower I wanted the top-of-the-line Kawasaki engine(also a "Commercial" rated) on that investment. If you are trying to "save money" you may be satisfied with a FR or FS Kawa, but I figured it was worth the money to get the FX.

Mar 12, 2013#36

J

jklowe48

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

djdicetn said:
jklowe48,

As user Mad Mackie pointed out, the different series of the Kawasaki engines denotes the "rating" for those engines(FR____ indicates an engine rated for Residential applications, FS____ indicates Heavy Duty and FX____ indicates Commercial). There is an additional spec for each of those that indicates how many "hours" these engine series are designed to "last" with the progression being FR the least, FS longer and FX longest. As I interpret this, it is a "guideline", not a "guarantee" since, as Mad Mackie pointed out they may all very well carry the same 3 year Kawasaki warranty. But, as he mentioned, each "step up" will give you better filtration systems and other bells & whistles. Myself, I wanted a Kawasaki FX series because if I was going to spend several thousand dollars on a "Commercial quality" ZTR mower I wanted the top-of-the-line Kawasaki engine(also a "Commercial" rated) on that investment. If you are trying to "save money" you may be satisfied with a FR or FS Kawa, but I figured it was worth the money to get the FX.

I'm sold on the super duty and the better fx engine...one last question....one of my friends has offered to sale me his 2011 54" superduty only has 127 hrs on it, what should I offer? He hasn't made a price yet just talking for now. I'm also aware of the recall and the little problems people were having with them shutting off when hot..I'm thinking $2500.00 to $3000.00

Mar 12, 2013#37

M

Mad Mackie

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

I would wait for your friend to come up with a price first as he probably paid $6,000 or more just two years ago.
On this forum, lawnsite.com, in the sponsors section there is a Hustler forum and you can get direct answers from a Hustler representative.
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing:

Mar 27, 2013#38

C

cactusjack24

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

Howdy Tso, I Bought a new ztr last year so I understand what your going through. I have a 1994 Dixon with the 20hp Kohler that is a tank,my wife loves to mow with it,my local dixon dealer has been in business for over 30yrs and even they told me not to buy the "new dixon" they said once husky took over their quailty went downhill, they have been very disapponted. my son bought a gravely 3 yrs ago and mowes about 10 rough acres and loves it. I bought a Hustler last year to mow my 20 acre pasture with and I couldn't be happier, It used to take me 12 hrs to brushhog it and now I can do it in 6 hrs. The choice is up to you but when a dealer tells me not to buy their mower that carries alot of weight with me. let us know what you decide. Cactusjack

Mar 27, 2013#39

Old Goat

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

cactusjack24 said:
I bought a Hustler last year to mow my 20 acre pasture with and I couldn't be happier, It used to take me 12 hrs to brushhog it and now I can do it in 6 hrs.

Not surprized. Hustler and Big Dog are made by Excel Indutries. The original ZTR machines.
Read the history section here.
Zero-turn mower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Charles

Mar 27, 2013#40

Gil

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

Lot of good advise in these posts. I did my shopping 3 years ago upgrading from a John Deere GX345 with 54 inch deck to a Gravely ZT HD60 with 26HP Kawasaki engine. Great mower but a couple of things I wish had known before I purchased that no one has mention (or I over looked).:frown: First, and this applies to most all ZT I have seen, is a poor design of the engine carburetor intake. They are too low, thus the filters clog up very fast. Have to clean my filter after each mowing and replace after about half a dozen mows. Have seen some recent Gravely models that have a carb intake stack that is about 10 inches above the engine. Looking at it for possible modification to my Gravely. It may be a combination of blade speed, deck design, etc, but my ZT kicks up a lot of clippings and dust which clogs my filter in nothing flat. I think just a bit of height on the intake would either stop or at least cut down on the problem. The Kawasaki air filter is not cheap. It is propitiatory and runs about $15. And they do not make a prefilter for it. Ideas, anyone? Second is tires. Have some slopes to mow and ZT drifts. Changed out tires to a better grip. Help some but not a lot. Friend who owns a Lawn Service company told me after I made the change, that he has his ZT tires filled with the no flat foam. Not the over the counter foam, but the one that is done by tire dealers. It is expensive but he said worth it if you are mowing on slopes. I did do it on my front tires at cost of $35 per tire. The foam adds weigh and thus more traction and more stability.
Other than those two criticisms about the mower, ZT is the way to go if you have a large area to mow (have about 3 acres), and Gravely is a great mower.

Regards, and be good to yourself, and others,
Gil

Mar 27, 2013#41

djdicetn

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

cactusjack24 said:
Howdy Tso, I Bought a new ztr last year so I understand what your going through. I have a 1994 Dixon with the 20hp Kohler that is a tank,my wife loves to mow with it,my local dixon dealer has been in business for over 30yrs and even they told me not to buy the "new dixon" they said once husky took over their quailty went downhill, they have been very disapponted. my son bought a gravely 3 yrs ago and mowes about 10 rough acres and loves it. I bought a Hustler last year to mow my 20 acre pasture with and I couldn't be happier, It used to take me 12 hrs to brushhog it and now I can do it in 6 hrs. The choice is up to you but when a dealer tells me not to buy their mower that carries alot of weight with me. let us know what you decide. Cactusjack

cactusjack24,
I hear ya about the Dixons.....I almost bought the Dixon DX152 Commercial last fall, but couldn't get past it being a "blue Husqvarna" that just couldn't match up feature-to-feature(and Warranties) to the Gravely Pro-Turn XDZ 152 Commercial. Although it would have cost me only $400 less out-the-door than my Gravely. What Hustler series did you get for mowing that 20 acres(I'm thinking most likely the X-1 or Super Z). I also almost pulled the trigger on a Hustler Fastrak Super Duty, but a 54" would have cost me almost $1k more than the Gravely(just couldn't justify that to the Financial Advisor....aka, the wife:0) I too, like your son, am VERY pleased with my Gravely!!

Mar 27, 2013#42

djdicetn

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

Gil said:
Lot of good advise in these posts. I did my shopping 3 years ago upgrading from a John Deere GX345 with 54 inch deck to a Gravely ZT HD60 with 26HP Kawasaki engine. Great mower but a couple of things I wish had known before I purchased that no one has mention (or I over looked).:frown: First, and this applies to most all ZT I have seen, is a poor design of the engine carburetor intake. They are too low, thus the filters clog up very fast. Have to clean my filter after each mowing and replace after about half a dozen mows. Have seen some recent Gravely models that have a carb intake stack that is about 10 inches above the engine. Looking at it for possible modification to my Gravely. It may be a combination of blade speed, deck design, etc, but my ZT kicks up a lot of clippings and dust which clogs my filter in nothing flat. I think just a bit of height on the intake would either stop or at least cut down on the problem. The Kawasaki air filter is not cheap. It is propitiatory and runs about $15. And they do not make a prefilter for it. Ideas, anyone? Second is tires. Have some slopes to mow and ZT drifts. Changed out tires to a better grip. Help some but not a lot. Friend who owns a Lawn Service company told me after I made the change, that he has his ZT tires filled with the no flat foam. Not the over the counter foam, but the one that is done by tire dealers. It is expensive but he said worth it if you are mowing on slopes. I did do it on my front tires at cost of $35 per tire. The foam adds weigh and thus more traction and more stability.
Other than those two criticisms about the mower, ZT is the way to go if you have a large area to mow (have about 3 acres), and Gravely is a great mower.

Regards, and be good to yourself, and others,
Gil

Gil,
I looked at the ZT HD, which by all accounts is a very good residential mower, but a couple of things(which appear to be your annoying issues) steered me to the Commercial Pro-Turn XDZ series. That was the Kawa FR(Residential) series engine on the ZT HD versus the FX(Commercial) series on the Pro-Turns and the weight of the machines at 853lbs for the ZT HD 60" and 1050lbs on my Pro-Turn 52"(1073lbs for the 60"). The air filter design you mentioned(intake stack that is about 10 inches above the engine) is inherent to the Kawasaki FX series although I don't really understand why your ZT HD "kicks up so much grass clippings". Are you using the discharge chute when you mow or leaving it mounted facing upwards on the deck????? I would highly recommend that you use the discharge chute if you are not and that may significantly reduce the dust & grass clippings that are clogging your air filter!!! Again, the 853lb weight of your ZT HD is more than a lot of 60" residential units and I would recommend you discuss this with your dealer. I believe the psi air pressure in your rear tires may be contributing to this more than anything. My manual has a "wide range" in the owner manual(front says "20-25psi" and the rear "12-20psi"). What do you have yours inflated to???? I would think the lowest psi in your manual would yield the best "grip"(I have my front @ 20psi and my rear at 12psi) and those are strictly Mfr. "recommendations". Your dealer may know better what psi you should use to alleviate your "drifting" problem. I would NOT recommend tire additives/etc. until talking to your dealer!!!!

Mar 27, 2013#43

D

Dtchweed

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

I have 2 Ferris Mowers I have a new 1500 52 inch deck then Have a older 2000 with 61 inch deck I field tested ex mark and a snapper and Lands pride ZTI Accu-Z 72 inch deck Liked the ex-mark and Snapper but still liked the ride of my Ferris better

Mar 27, 2013#44

lawn mower fanatic

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

Dtchweed said:
.....but still liked the ride of my Ferris better

That's probably because of the suspension technology other brands don't have. :thumbsup:

Mar 28, 2013#45

Gil

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

djdicetn said:
Gil,
I looked at the ZT HD, which by all accounts is a very good residential mower, but a couple of things(which appear to be your annoying issues) steered me to the Commercial Pro-Turn XDZ series. That was the Kawa FR(Residential) series engine on the ZT HD versus the FX(Commercial) series on the Pro-Turns and the weight of the machines at 853lbs for the ZT HD 60" and 1050lbs on my Pro-Turn 52"(1073lbs for the 60"). The air filter design you mentioned(intake stack that is about 10 inches above the engine) is inherent to the Kawasaki FX series although I don't really understand why your ZT HD "kicks up so much grass clippings". Are you using the discharge chute when you mow or leaving it mounted facing upwards on the deck????? I would highly recommend that you use the discharge chute if you are not and that may significantly reduce the dust & grass clippings that are clogging your air filter!!! Again, the 853lb weight of your ZT HD is more than a lot of 60" residential units and I would recommend you discuss this with your dealer. I believe the psi air pressure in your rear tires may be contributing to this more than anything. My manual has a "wide range" in the owner manual(front says "20-25psi" and the rear "12-20psi"). What do you have yours inflated to???? I would think the lowest psi in your manual would yield the best "grip"(I have my front @ 20psi and my rear at 12psi) and those are strictly Mfr. "recommendations". Your dealer may know better what psi you should use to alleviate your "drifting" problem. I would NOT recommend tire additives/etc. until talking to your dealer!!!!

Will check but believe have my rear tires inflated to 18. Will reduce to 12 and see how that does for me. The carb filter clogs mostly with dust only very little clippings. Have tried both with and without the discharge chute in place and no different that I can note. I use the "Gator" type blades which do a better job for me in cutting and the clippings seem to be smaller. No, I don't use a mulching attachment. Now that's another subject. Going to look into modifying the intake to a stack if possible. Any suggestions on that?

Regards,
Gil

May 24, 2014#46

K

KYDan

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

I am new to this forum and just read this entire thread and discovered a lot of good information. We, my wife and I, mow about 12 acres of lawn where we live on a regular basis and an additional 5 acres occasionally. Some of it is nice smooth lawn and relatively flat and other parts are rough and hilly with some slopes around 20 degrees or possibly marginally steeper. Currently, we are mowing with a JD 757 60" deck and have been using it since 2005. We also had an older Ferris 36" walk behind that we sold last fall, as well as several push mowers (Hondas and Toros). We are in the market for another zero turn and have started shopping. We want mowers with 60" decks as they suit our needs the best for fast mowing with minimal scalping, 72" decks scalp too much for us to consider them. We are open to any brands that are available reasonably close to us, but we have been shopping Exmarks, Ferris, Scag, and Hustler. We briefly tried the Hustler Super Z yesterday and it is very fast, but seemed "squirrely" handling to me. I sort of liked the Turf Tiger Scag as it handled more like the JD that we have. The Scag has the 27 hp Kohler with EFI and the Hustler had the 35 hp commercial carburetored Kawasaki. We have the Kawasaki 25 hp on the JD and it has been a great engine. The Exmark is pricey, but everyone that has them seems to love them. The dealer that we last visited has both the Hustler and the Scag and the salesperson was really high on the Hustler, and it did have an impressive deck, but I know very little about the brand. I liked the Scag Turf Tiger as it felt familiar and it has a really wide wheelbase which is good for mowing slopes, but I am not sold on any particular brand yet. Any input and experiences that you are will to share would be greatly appreciated.

May 24, 2014#47

M

Mad Mackie

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

Hi KYDan,
What model Hustler do you demo? I have a Hustler X-ONE/Kawasaki FX730V, 23.5 HP/60" rear discharge deck. It is used in a cemetery primarily, great machine, handles well and does a fine job mowing in a 200 year old cemetery.
I also have a Scag Tiger Cub/48" deck/collection system that I haul around in my trailer.
There are lots of Scag Turf Tigers in my area and they are a very substantial machine, some pro guys have two or three. The deck sizes vary from 52" to 61", 72" deck puts an operator into a wider trailer size that most don't want to get into.
I have been reading some not good news about the Kawasaki big block engines scoring the cylinders and other problems, so I would stay away from machines powered with them until Kawasaki has solved the problems with them.
The Scag Turf Tiger has a horizontal crankshaft engine which appears to have somewhat longer life. A horizontal engine adds to the machines complexity in getting power to the deck, but these machines have been very durable providing that maintenance gets done in a timely manner.
When it comes to hilly areas, one needs to be aware of the possibility of oil starvation in the engine at excessive angles in addition to the loss of control of the machine. I mow a place with a 20 degree plus hill and I back the machine down the hill and mow up the hill. I turn the machine around up on the more level area. This adds time to this mowing job, but this is the only safe way to mow this area. The garden tractors that I retired from mowing, I had installed oil pressure lights on the engines having repowered them over the years. I would like to do this to my Tiger Cub, but this engine is not an easy one to adapt an oil pressure sender onto.
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:

May 24, 2014#48

Nwatson99

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

KYDan said:
I am new to this forum and just read this entire thread and discovered a lot of good information. We, my wife and I, mow about 12 acres of lawn where we live on a regular basis and an additional 5 acres occasionally. Some of it is nice smooth lawn and relatively flat and other parts are rough and hilly with some slopes around 20 degrees or possibly marginally steeper. Currently, we are mowing with a JD 757 60" deck and have been using it since 2005. We also had an older Ferris 36" walk behind that we sold last fall, as well as several push mowers (Hondas and Toros). We are in the market for another zero turn and have started shopping. We want mowers with 60" decks as they suit our needs the best for fast mowing with minimal scalping, 72" decks scalp too much for us to consider them. We are open to any brands that are available reasonably close to us, but we have been shopping Exmarks, Ferris, Scag, and Hustler. We briefly tried the Hustler Super Z yesterday and it is very fast, but seemed "squirrely" handling to me. I sort of liked the Turf Tiger Scag as it handled more like the JD that we have. The Scag has the 27 hp Kohler with EFI and the Hustler had the 35 hp commercial carburetored Kawasaki. We have the Kawasaki 25 hp on the JD and it has been a great engine. The Exmark is pricey, but everyone that has them seems to love them. The dealer that we last visited has both the Hustler and the Scag and the salesperson was really high on the Hustler, and it did have an impressive deck, but I know very little about the brand. I liked the Scag Turf Tiger as it felt familiar and it has a really wide wheelbase which is good for mowing slopes, but I am not sold on any particular brand yet. Any input and experiences that you are will to share would be greatly appreciated.

You live in Ky, you own a JD and not talking about buying another JD why???

May 24, 2014#49

Ric

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

KYDan said:
I am new to this forum and just read this entire thread and discovered a lot of good information. We, my wife and I, mow about 12 acres of lawn where we live on a regular basis and an additional 5 acres occasionally. Some of it is nice smooth lawn and relatively flat and other parts are rough and hilly with some slopes around 20 degrees or possibly marginally steeper. Currently, we are mowing with a JD 757 60" deck and have been using it since 2005. We also had an older Ferris 36" walk behind that we sold last fall, as well as several push mowers (Honda's and Toros). We are in the market for another zero turn and have started shopping. We want mowers with 60" decks as they suit our needs the best for fast mowing with minimal scalping, 72" decks scalp too much for us to consider them. We are open to any brands that are available reasonably close to us, but we have been shopping Exmarks, Ferris, Scag, and Hustler. We briefly tried the Hustler Super Z yesterday and it is very fast, but seemed "squirrely" handling to me. I sort of liked the Turf Tiger Scag as it handled more like the JD that we have. The Scag has the 27 hp Kohler with EFI and the Hustler had the 35 hp commercial carburetored Kawasaki. We have the Kawasaki 25 hp on the JD and it has been a great engine. The Exmark is pricey, but everyone that has them seems to love them. The dealer that we last visited has both the Hustler and the Scag and the salesperson was really high on the Hustler, and it did have an impressive deck, but I know very little about the brand. I liked the Scag Turf Tiger as it felt familiar and it has a really wide wheelbase which is good for mowing slopes, but I am not sold on any particular brand yet. Any input and experiences that you are will to share would be greatly appreciated.

Have you looked at the Toros. How about the Grandstand mowers? there capable of mowing up to 20 degree slopes and are more maneuverable and productive than the ZTR and you can get them up to a 60" cut. With the Grandstand you have a zero turn with the option of a walk-behind also, best of both worlds.

May 24, 2014#50

M

Mad Mackie

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

I for sure would not want to mow 12-17 acres on a stander!!:thumbdown:
If the smooth part is nice, then I would consider a Scag Cheetah which has selectable ground speeds up to 16 MPH. JMO
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing:

May 24, 2014#51

djdicetn

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

Mad Mackie said:
I for sure would not want to mow 12-17 acres on a stander!!:thumbdown:
If the smooth part is nice, then I would consider a Scag Cheetah which has selectable ground speeds up to 16 MPH. JMO
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing:

I hear ya...that's a lot of standing mowing that much!!! The Grandstand is a great mower, but I would think that for anything more than 4-5 acres in a single mowing that it would wear you out. User KYDan doesn't mention a "budget" but if he's looking at the Turf Tiger I would suggest he consider the Gravely Pro-Turn XDZ series which are right up there with the Scag Turf Tiger and Cheetah. My dealer sells both the Scag and Gravely and I would have liked to have gotten a Scag. Unfortunately, my pockets weren't deep enough. Gravely is the same commercial quality but aren't quite as expensive as the Scags. If money wasn't an issue(my Financial Adviser...aka, the wife had some input on this expenditure) I might be mowing with a Scag.

May 24, 2014#52

Ric

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

djdicetn said:
I hear ya...that's a lot of standing mowing that much!!! The Grandstand is a great mower, but I would think that for anything more than 4-5 acres in a single mowing that it would wear you out. User KYDan doesn't mention a "budget" but if he's looking at the Turf Tiger I would suggest he consider the Gravely Pro-Turn XDZ series which are right up there with the Scag Turf Tiger and Cheetah. My dealer sells both the Scag and Gravely and I would have liked to have gotten a Scag. Unfortunately, my pockets weren't deep enough. Gravely is the same commercial quality but aren't quite as expensive as the Scags. If money wasn't an issue(my Financial Adviser...aka, the wife had some input on this expenditure) I might be mowing with a Scag.

A stander wearing you out? Well see that's where your wrong. Have you ever used a Grandstand? I can mow on the Grandstand all day long and at the end of the day I can walk away and not hurt because unlike a ZTR it doesn't beat you to death. I'm on a ride on cushioned platform which absorbs the shocks or bumps, unlike the lawn Tractor or ZTR in which ever bump is transferred through your spine. I can move on the stander when mowing slopes, I can step off to remove debris. You say I would think that for anything more than 4-5 acres in a single mowing that it would wear you out, just think about that a second I probably do that and more every day in 4 Hours time on my Grandstand.

May 24, 2014#53

M

Mad Mackie

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

Hi Ric,
When you are over 70 and still mowing 2-3 days a week and gave up snow removal a few years ago, call me and let me know how it all worked out!!
No doubt they have some good attributes, but most of the dealers around my area, eastern CT, have stopped stocking them. I'm involved with several local cemeteries and had thought that a stander would be a better machine for cemetery use, but I was very wrong, not an easy machine to maneuver as I had originally thought. In time possibly it could work out, but not with multiple operators.
Just my thoughts and experiences!!
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:

May 24, 2014#54

Ric

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

Mad Mackie said:
Hi Ric,
When you are over 70 and still mowing 2-3 days a week and gave up snow removal a few years ago, call me and let me know how it all worked out!!
No doubt they have some good attributes, but most of the dealers around my area, eastern CT, have stopped stocking them. I'm involved with several local cemeteries and had thought that a stander would be a better machine for cemetery use, but I was very wrong, not an easy machine to maneuver as I had originally thought. In time possibly it could work out, but not with multiple operators.
Just my thoughts and experiences!!
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:

Well I'm 62 and I've never done snow removal and I mow 6 days a week because I choose too. I don't know what stander you're talking about or tried out but the Grandstand is one of the most maneuverable machines I've ever used and I've used plenty of ZTR's. It's no different than a ztr, drives the same way it's just smaller and you stand instead of sitting down and really for multiple operators it should be no problem because there are no adjustments to be made. :confused2:

May 24, 2014#55

Carscw

I been looking at the toro and the walker not sure what one I like better. Going to demo a walker next week.

I started getting a sore back sitting on a riding mower all day. Been using the snapper pro walk behind the past two weeks. Forgot how much time it saves over a riding mower even with old belts that slip going up hill.

May 24, 2014#56

Ric

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

Carscw said:
I been looking at the toro and the walker not sure what one I like better. Going to demo a walker next week.

I started getting a sore back sitting on a riding mower all day. Been using the snapper pro walk behind the past two weeks. Forgot how much time it saves over a riding mower even with old belts that slip going up hill.

That was the reason I went to the Grandstand was because of my back. Even my Chiropractor said the stander was better for my back.

May 24, 2014#57

M

Mad Mackie

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

Hi Ric,
When the Wright Stander had been out for several years, probably 2006-08, one cemetery that I'm involved with had a dealer bring one for a demo. Two problems stood out quickly, not being able to easily raise the deck to pass over objects and not having arm rests that were height adjustable. The machine operated fine but over steering was a problem around the confines of the grave stones.
I understand about back problems as I have a herniated disc and torn rotor cuffs both shoulders. No doubt that the ridged frame ZTRs are hard riding, but there are seats available to reduce the jarring that a ZTR produces during operation. I lean forward on rough areas to reduce the jarring.
I would like to have a cemetery demo on a new stander, but no local dealers stock them as they don't sell in my area. My local Scag dealer has one new V Rider but they will not demo it as they want to keep it 100% clean as it has been in their showroom too long. They had been a Wright dealer but dropped the line as they were slow sellers at best. I use the collection system on my Tiger Cub about 90% of the time, a side collection box on a stander doesn't have the volume that I need, but I could put two standers, a mulcher and side discharge, in my trailer along with my wood chipper and I would like that, but not going to happen. I also use a JRCO 46" front mounted dethatcher in spring and fall.
There is no doubt that under different circumstances, standers will outperform any other type of machine, just not happening here in my area.
My local dealer sells Scag, Exmark, Toro and Simplicity machines along with Stihl, generators and a rental business.
Not far from them is a fairly large John Deere dealer with Husqvarna hand held items. Both dealers have excellent service departments although I do 95% of maintenance myself being a retired mech.
Mad Mackie in CT:smile:

May 24, 2014#58

E

edd

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

ok......time to weigh in......the big dog r-754 that i bought 3 years ago clicked over to 380 hrs today and it is still running fine with kohler courage 24 hp...4600 out the door in october 2011.....fastrak super duty with fx 691 is a fine little mower...5500 otd in january2013....was a demo with 17 hours.......i am looking right now at a bobcat fastcat pro 52 inch deck...demo with 10 hrs.....he is asking 5800 but i think i can get it down some more.....only drawback is it dont come with rops.....i will have one made instead of paying 400 for bobcats rops which i really dont like.....if you can find a demo you can save money

May 25, 2014#59

Ric

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

Mad Mackie said:
Hi Ric,
When the Wright Stander had been out for several years, probably 2006-08, one cemetery that I'm involved with had a dealer bring one for a demo. Two problems stood out quickly, not being able to easily raise the deck to pass over objects and not having arm rests that were height adjustable. The machine operated fine but over steering was a problem around the confines of the grave stones.
I understand about back problems as I have a herniated disc and torn rotor cuffs both shoulders. No doubt that the ridged frame ZTRs are hard riding, but there are seats available to reduce the jarring that a ZTR produces during operation. I lean forward on rough areas to reduce the jarring.
I would like to have a cemetery demo on a new stander, but no local dealers stock them as they don't sell in my area. My local Scag dealer has one new V Rider but they will not demo it as they want to keep it 100% clean as it has been in their showroom too long. They had been a Wright dealer but dropped the line as they were slow sellers at best. I use the collection system on my Tiger Cub about 90% of the time, a side collection box on a stander doesn't have the volume that I need, but I could put two standers, a mulcher and side discharge, in my trailer along with my wood chipper and I would like that, but not going to happen. I also use a JRCO 46" front mounted dethatcher in spring and fall.
There is no doubt that under different circumstances, standers will outperform any other type of machine, just not happening here in my area.
My local dealer sells Scag, Exmark, Toro and Simplicity machines along with Stihl, generators and a rental business.
Not far from them is a fairly large John Deere dealer with Husqvarna hand held items. Both dealers have excellent service departments although I do 95% of maintenance myself being a retired mech.
Mad Mackie in CT:smile:

The Standers from 2006-08 weren't the Standers of today. The Wright Stander IMO is one that I wouldn't own period. I don't like the controls or platforms and there probably the roughest riding stander made. As far as the deck adjustment goes the Wrights unless you buy the real high dollar units are still adjustable using the old pin or pin and spacer method adjustment the same as some other models on the market like World lawn and Encore and the new John Deere I'm guessing seeing that there stander is made by Wright. There platform is to confining for me, you really can't move around like you need to to shift your weight on slopes and there still using the old coil springs for there suspension.

The Deck adjustment on the Toro and Exmark are done with a lever on its side and they can be made while your moving, I do it all the time moving from front to back yards for different cutting heights for different type grasses. The big difference between the Toro and Exmark standers is the deck itself, Exmark uses there own deck and Toro uses the Turbo force. If I couldn't buy either the Toro or Exmark, Scag would be my next choice because I think that Scag makes the next best stander on the market.

You say there's no doubt that under different circumstances, standers will outperform any other type of machine and I somewhat agree with that but I don't believe there's any doubt or circumstances that a stander can't out perform any type machine on the market.

The one thing that most people don't realize about one big difference between the Toro and Exmark standers is they have a lower center of gravity than a ZTR and a lower center of gravity than most all other standers available. The Toro Grandstand and Exmark Vantage are better at that than any stander made to my knowledge. That's the reason they can mower a 20 degree slope and are capable of up to 25 degree which is what the engine is capable of doing.

May 25, 2014#60

M

Mad Mackie

Re: I'm shopping for a ZTR 60" --- Here's what I'm finding, your thoughts please

Hi Ric and group,
No doubt that improvements are made as experience is gained by manufacturers.
The fact that no dealers have any standers in stock in my area tells me something. The one exception is my local Scag dealer who are also Toro, Exmark, Simplicity dealers has one new Scag V Rider that they won't demo in hopes that someone will buy it or another dealer will want it on short term notice.
During this past fall/winter there was a more than usual amount of standers for sale of various makes on another lawn oriented web site that caters to a large group with many topics and deals more with commercial operators. Several of the standers did sell, but at much lower prices that the sellers expected. Last year and this year I have yet to see any make of stander on any lawn guys trailer. I'm one of the few that uses a closed cargo trailer, so most don't know what I use for machines unless they see me on one of my machines and notice my van and trailer, I don't have any signs or advertisements on my trailers.
In my current lawn mowing involvement, I need machines with rear discharge and collection and this is how it has been for many years.
I've spoke my last on this topic.
Have a great weekend everyone!
Mad Mackie in CT, SFC US Army Retired:smile:

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