HRR2168VKA rear wheels locking up - dealer can't seem to fix

[robert@honda]

Here is an update on the mower. Since the first dealer was unable to solve the lock-up problem, on June 27, I took the mower to the only other authorized Honda service shop in this area. They had it for a little over a week, then after running it through a series of diagnostic steps determined that it was a faulty transmission. The transmission was backordered, but finally came in and I picked the mower up this last Friday (July 26). It had been raining that day, so I rolled the mower into my storage room. The following afternoon had dried enough to take it out for a trial run but when I went to roll it backwards, the lock-up was still occurring after doing nothing more than sitting overnight. I specifically asked the shop if they had lubed all areas of the axle and wheel that required lube and they stated that they had. I have noticed when it locks up, that I can lift the back of the mower and turn the wheels with my foot, but when I set it back down there is not enough traction with the ground, pulling backwards, to get it to turn. It seems that something is binding although sporadically. I was in Home Depot not long ago, in the garden section and noticed some power equipment that had been returned. One of the returns was an HRR 216. Playing around with it, it seemed to take much less effort to roll backwards than mine ever has, for whatever that is worth.
A couple of You Tube vids showing the situation.
vid 1
vid 2

RicB, any follow-up?

I watched the videos, and I have to ask, and please forgive me if this sounds crazy, but I can't help but notice from the videos, is is possible your hand(s) was in contact or putting ANY pressure on the SmartDrive control when you tried to pull the mower backwards? The mower's SmartDrive transmission will only be in "NEUTRAL" and allow for backwards movement if there is NO pressure at all on the SmartDrive control. You can only get the mower to roll backwards when the transmission is in NEUTRAL. This is true with the engine on or off. When pulling backwards, only grasp the handlebar(s) (green highlight) area and keep both hands completely off the SmartDrive control (pink highlight). Again, sorry if this sounds crazy, but watching the rear wheels, it sure looks like in the video you might have been applying some pressure to the SmartDrive control....

 

[NJsnapper]

RicB, any follow-up?

I watched the videos, and I have to ask, and please forgive me if this sounds crazy, but I can't help but notice from the videos, is is possible your hand(s) was in contact or putting ANY pressure on the SmartDrive control when you tried to pull the mower backwards? The mower's SmartDrive transmission will only be in "NEUTRAL" and allow for backwards movement if there is NO pressure at all on the SmartDrive control. You can only get the mower to roll backwards when the transmission is in NEUTRAL. This is true with the engine on or off. When pulling backwards, only grasp the handlebar(s) (green highlight) area and keep both hands completely off the SmartDrive control (pink highlight). Again, sorry if this sounds crazy, but watching the rear wheels, it sure looks like in the video you might have been applying some pressure to the SmartDrive control....

hmmm. Bet you are onto something Robert

 

[RicB]

No, that doesn't sound crazy at all. In fact, it was the first thing that occurred to me when this problem began. I have made a very conscious effort to be certain that I am not touching the control when pulling backward. I can literally grab anywhere on the handlebar and it can lock/bind up. To update, yesterday afternoon I took the mower back to the shop. The service manager played around with it a little and it locked up on him as well. He said that he would contact Honda to let you all know that it is back in their shop.

RicB, any follow-up?

I watched the videos, and I have to ask, and please forgive me if this sounds crazy, but I can't help but notice from the videos, is is possible your hand(s) was in contact or putting ANY pressure on the SmartDrive control when you tried to pull the mower backwards? The mower's SmartDrive transmission will only be in "NEUTRAL" and allow for backwards movement if there is NO pressure at all on the SmartDrive control. You can only get the mower to roll backwards when the transmission is in NEUTRAL. This is true with the engine on or off. When pulling backwards, only grasp the handlebar(s) (green highlight) area and keep both hands completely off the SmartDrive control (pink highlight). Again, sorry if this sounds crazy, but watching the rear wheels, it sure looks like in the video you might have been applying some pressure to the SmartDrive control....

 

[NJsnapper]

No, that doesn't sound crazy at all. In fact, it was the first thing that occurred to me when this problem began. I have made a very conscious effort to be certain that I am not touching the control when pulling backward. I can literally grab anywhere on the handlebar and it can lock/bind up. To update, yesterday afternoon I took the mower back to the shop. The service manager played around with it a little and it locked up on him as well. He said that he would contact Honda to let you all know.

Just for giggles i went out to mine and ever so slightly pushed the control and the pulled it backward. Did the exact same thing yours did in the vid. No engine was running. Could the controls be out of adjustment where its *always* slightly depressed even though you are not touching it?

 

[RicB]

I've wondered if something like that might be the problem or perhaps the control is sticking just enough to cause this but not enough to be readily noticeable. I think the 1st shop that worked on this may have taken the control apart, as I could see some indication of this on the screw heads holding it together. I have no idea what they did once it was apart though. Or maybe the cable is just sticking and needs some lube, if it's possible to do that. NJsnapper, your post has me thinking back to when this first started and I was looking up underneath the deck and figuring out how Honda's belt/pulley system all worked. I could see how when the control paddles are depressed, the tranny would rotate backwards and apply tension to the belt and the more I pressed the control, the further it would rotate, applying more tension, increasing the speed of the mower and so on. While looking this over with the mower on it's side and no one touching the control, I could grab the transmission and rotate it forward ever so slightly from it's resting position, and I'm talking maybe 1/8" of rotation. Is it possible that that slight amount of movement by not releasing could be putting enough tension on the belt to cause this? I've had the mower on it's side at other times since then and it would be in the fully forward position. If it is only hanging sporadically, maybe that would explain why the lock-up will occur one second and be gone the next. This is a minor detail to be sure and I had dismissed it as trivial, but your post has me re-thinking that.

Just for giggles i went out to mine and ever so slightly pushed the control and the pulled it backward. De the exact same thing yours did in the vid. No engine was running. Could the controls be out of adjustment where its *always* slightly depressed even though you are not touching it?

 

[RicB]

I bought an HRR2169VKA today (07/30/13) and had the rear wheels lock up during a test run inside my garage. It has never tasted grass, but will be going back to Home Depot in the morning. Glad I found this thread.

That's a smart move. Hope that you got your money refunded. This Honda mower has been a real nightmare and I wish that I had never bought the thing. I spent the extra money on the Honda specifically because I was looking for a reliable mower. As it stands, I've had to waste a considerable amount of time on this. I was back in Home Depot today playing around with the HRR2169VKA that had been returned. It rolled backwards so much easier than mine ever has, even when new. I could jerk on the handlebars of this one, then let go and it would continue to roll for another 6-12 inches with no input from me. The mower I have has always required quite a bit of effort to pull backwards. so much in fact that the service people in both shops have commented on it and an older gentleman in one shop even said that he wouldn't want a mower that was that difficult to roll backwards. So it seems that my Honda has never really worked properly, even new out of the box.

 

[bigjck]

I recently bought a Honda Harmony II Hrt216 used. I had to replace the drive cable, since it was broken. I have noticed the same problem with the mower rolling backwards. Having worked on Hondas before, I know that the cogs on the back wheel are set to engage to make the mower drive forward and are also set to allow the wheels to turn backwards. The only thing that could be preventing going backwards is that the transmission is still engaged to go forward, as you try to pull it backwards. Even though you might think you are releasing the self-propelled bar enough, the forward transmission is still engaged. I think you mentioned that they adjusted this, but it may need a bit more. I adjusted mine several times to get it better. With the Honda I have, the belt is not tightened by an extra pulley tightening the drive belt, as you might find on the Craftsman or John Deer. The self-propel cable just moves until a switch is engaged which engages the transmission. I am thinking that the little switch needs lubricating. You do have to remove the cover underneath the mower to access this, so I haven't done it yet. To get the transmission to disengage, I have to completely release the self propel bar. I will let you know if lubricating that switch helps any.

 

[RicB]

I got the mower back from the shop a few days ago. After speaking with Honda, they adjusted the cable again. They also lubed it. At first it seemed that the problem was corrected, but yesterday it started binding up again. A couple of times while running, the smartdrive control stuck in the down position and the mower would try and take off on me. Even before the lock-ups started, oftentimes when taking the mower out to use, the smartdrive paddle would take some effort to depress the first time, as if it were stuck in the upright position. After that it would function normally.

short video from yesterday

I recently bought a Honda Harmony II Hrt216 used. I had to replace the drive cable, since it was broken. I have noticed the same problem with the mower rolling backwards. Having worked on Hondas before, I know that the cogs on the back wheel are set to engage to make the mower drive forward and are also set to allow the wheels to turn backwards. The only thing that could be preventing going backwards is that the transmission is still engaged to go forward, as you try to pull it backwards. Even though you might think you are releasing the self-propelled bar enough, the forward transmission is still engaged. I think you mentioned that they adjusted this, but it may need a bit more. I adjusted mine several times to get it better. With the Honda I have, the belt is not tightened by an extra pulley tightening the drive belt, as you might find on the Craftsman or John Deer. The self-propel cable just moves until a switch is engaged which engages the transmission. I am thinking that the little switch needs lubricating. You do have to remove the cover underneath the mower to access this, so I haven't done it yet. To get the transmission to disengage, I have to completely release the self propel bar. I will let you know if lubricating that switch helps any.

 

[robert@honda]

I got the mower back from the shop a few days ago. After speaking with Honda, they adjusted the cable again. They also lubed it. At first it seemed that the problem was corrected, but yesterday it started binding up again.

Ric, at this point, I'd urge you to contact Honda Customer Relations and see what they can do to help get things set right for you and this mower. There's no excuse why after all this effort it is still having problems. Please collect all your notes and paper work, and give 'em a call to explain what has been going on and what you'd like to have done. 770-497-6400, M-F, 9-5. Have the frame Serial Number off the back of the mower Deck "XXXX-1234567" and the name of the dealer when you call. Honda knows you paid a premium price and expect a premium product for your money; please give the pros and Honda CR a chance to help out.

 

[RicB]

I will do that Robert. I have never been given any sort of documentation from either shop for the work done. I will need to see if they are willing to make me copies of the work they've performed.

Ric, at this point, I'd urge you to contact Honda Customer Relations and see what they can do to help get things set right for you and this mower. There's no excuse why after all this effort it is still having problems. Please collect all your notes and paper work, and give 'em a call to explain what has been going on and what you'd like to have done. 770-497-6400, M-F, 9-5. Have the frame Serial Number off the back of the mower Deck "XXXX-1234567" and the name of the dealer when you call. Honda knows you paid a premium price and expect a premium product for your money; please give the pros and Honda CR a chance to help out.