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How to you bypass the safety switch under the seat?
#1
N
Need2learn
N
Need2learn
Hello I have a Craftsman 18 HP-OHV Model # 917-274822 and I would like to know how to bypass the safety switch under the seat?
#2
reynoldston
reynoldston
On most mowers just unplug it.
#3
Ric
Ric
Yep just unplug it then the mower wont run. Disconnecting or unplugging the plug will do the same as getting off the seat when the mower is running, it will kill the mower because you open the switch. Depending on how it's wired and how many there are you may not be able to unplug the seat switch.
#4
RoperGuy
RoperGuy
You could just cut of the switch, and reconnect both ends
#5
Ric
You really don't have to cut anything if it's just two wires. Just unplug the switch and use a jumper wire. I'd leave everything the way it is in case you wanted to hook the thing back up for resale. You may not be able to disconnect the switch if there's another circuit running through the switch.
Ric
You could just cut of the switch, and reconnect both ends
You really don't have to cut anything if it's just two wires. Just unplug the switch and use a jumper wire. I'd leave everything the way it is in case you wanted to hook the thing back up for resale. You may not be able to disconnect the switch if there's another circuit running through the switch.
#6
reynoldston
It depends on how its wired, by getting off the seat can also close the switch. Look at the switch and you will see NO or NC. When I am doing repairs on a mower and want to by pass the seat switch on most of the mowers I just unplug them. You might well be right because you most have the wiring diagram to his mower and I don't. Yes also it depends also on how many wires go to that switch. I was just making a quick guess when I said unplug it and its a very easy thing to do to test it.
reynoldston
Yep just unplug it then the mower wont run. Disconnecting or unplugging the plug will do the same as getting off the seat when the mower is running, it will kill the mower because you open the switch. Depending on how it's wired and how many there are you may not be able to unplug the seat switch.
It depends on how its wired, by getting off the seat can also close the switch. Look at the switch and you will see NO or NC. When I am doing repairs on a mower and want to by pass the seat switch on most of the mowers I just unplug them. You might well be right because you most have the wiring diagram to his mower and I don't. Yes also it depends also on how many wires go to that switch. I was just making a quick guess when I said unplug it and its a very easy thing to do to test it.
#7
reynoldston
I was thinking about how you say its wired and the only way I can come up with dose it have a relay??
reynoldston
Yep just unplug it then the mower wont run. Disconnecting or unplugging the plug will do the same as getting off the seat when the mower is running, it will kill the mower because you open the switch. Depending on how it's wired and how many there are you may not be able to unplug the seat switch.
I was thinking about how you say its wired and the only way I can come up with dose it have a relay??
#9
reynoldston
Yes it will. Most seat switches work off the negative side unless it is run through a relay. I have seen them wired both ways. If the OP might not own a multimeter this is the reason I say just unplug it and see what happens?? and if he dose yes check it out.
reynoldston
A quick check with a multimeter will tell you how the switch works.
Yes it will. Most seat switches work off the negative side unless it is run through a relay. I have seen them wired both ways. If the OP might not own a multimeter this is the reason I say just unplug it and see what happens?? and if he dose yes check it out.
#11
P
Point37
P
Point37
i just did this on mine cause i didn't want to have it shut down every time i stepped off...
#12
B
bertsmobile1
Interesting.
You have 2 functioning hands and can manage to stuff some twigs in a seat switch.
Monkeys can do that so you have at least the interlect of one of them
However you are too bone lazy to reach down with just one of those functioning hands & apply the parking brake which is put there so you can get on & off the mower safely when the engine is running.
Obviously you are interlectually deficient so could not either read not understand the operating manual for you mower which has instructions for safely getting off your mower which is interesting as you obviously did manage to read the operators manual for your video camera , or did you get another baboon to show you how?
Then to prove how "Smart" you are you make a video so other brain dead morons with no respect for the safety of both themselves , their family or passers by can emulate your magnificant discovery and STRIKE A BLOW FOR FREEDOM by circumventing something that was put there for your own good.
I really hope you get what you deserve, and by preferance you end up with your feet cut off at the neck because that would get rid of your useless head .
There is only one safety feature on a ride on that actually does protect the operator & the surrounding people and you think you are so smart that you not only defeat it but then go on to publish this so every other idiot moron who does not have the understanding of how the mower works can do the same.
The only reason that seat switch is there is because some one was seriously injured and because the USA legal system is so screwed up in place of this idiot being castrated so he could not breed more idiot bastards or teach his children to be irresponsible fools he sued the mower makers for a bucket load of money.
Ever wondered why newer mowers have a host of complicated relays and very expensive interlock modules ?
Well the answer is the idiot staring at you in the mirror.
B
bertsmobile1
i just did this on mine cause i didn't want to have it shut down every time i stepped off...
Interesting.
You have 2 functioning hands and can manage to stuff some twigs in a seat switch.
Monkeys can do that so you have at least the interlect of one of them
However you are too bone lazy to reach down with just one of those functioning hands & apply the parking brake which is put there so you can get on & off the mower safely when the engine is running.
Obviously you are interlectually deficient so could not either read not understand the operating manual for you mower which has instructions for safely getting off your mower which is interesting as you obviously did manage to read the operators manual for your video camera , or did you get another baboon to show you how?
Then to prove how "Smart" you are you make a video so other brain dead morons with no respect for the safety of both themselves , their family or passers by can emulate your magnificant discovery and STRIKE A BLOW FOR FREEDOM by circumventing something that was put there for your own good.
I really hope you get what you deserve, and by preferance you end up with your feet cut off at the neck because that would get rid of your useless head .
There is only one safety feature on a ride on that actually does protect the operator & the surrounding people and you think you are so smart that you not only defeat it but then go on to publish this so every other idiot moron who does not have the understanding of how the mower works can do the same.
The only reason that seat switch is there is because some one was seriously injured and because the USA legal system is so screwed up in place of this idiot being castrated so he could not breed more idiot bastards or teach his children to be irresponsible fools he sued the mower makers for a bucket load of money.
Ever wondered why newer mowers have a host of complicated relays and very expensive interlock modules ?
Well the answer is the idiot staring at you in the mirror.
#13
P
Point37
thanks lol...lighten up buddy...my dealer only gave me the owners manual for the kawasaki engine only...i'm still waiting for them to get me the mower owners manual cause i'm not printing it out and wasting $70 of printer ink...also that video is not mine...just found it on the internet...no way in hell i'm wasting my time making a video for youtube for anything...i've just had to do something similar on an older riding mower i've used cause even when you put on the parking brake when you get off the seat it still shuts down...was always easier to disable that feature and disengage the blades and get off on flat ground with the motor running...but if the parking brake keeps the motor running when i get off i will be plugging the seat switch back in and use the brake...was just looking for a way to pull up to a gate get off with it running get back on pull through the gate get back off with it running and shut the gate and get back on...not like i'm walking away from it to make a sandwich while it's sitting on a hill with the blades spinning with a bunch of puppies and kids at the bottom...but anyway have a good one :laughing:
P
Point37
Interesting.
You have 2 functioning hands and can manage to stuff some twigs in a seat switch.
Monkeys can do that so you have at least the interlect of one of them
However you are too bone lazy to reach down with just one of those functioning hands & apply the parking brake which is put there so you can get on & off the mower safely when the engine is running.
Obviously you are interlectually deficient so could not either read not understand the operating manual for you mower which has instructions for safely getting off your mower which is interesting as you obviously did manage to read the operators manual for your video camera , or did you get another baboon to show you how?
Then to prove how "Smart" you are you make a video so other brain dead morons with no respect for the safety of both themselves , their family or passers by can emulate your magnificant discovery and STRIKE A BLOW FOR FREEDOM by circumventing something that was put there for your own good.
I really hope you get what you deserve, and by preferance you end up with your feet cut off at the neck because that would get rid of your useless head .
There is only one safety feature on a ride on that actually does protect the operator & the surrounding people and you think you are so smart that you not only defeat it but then go on to publish this so every other idiot moron who does not have the understanding of how the mower works can do the same.
The only reason that seat switch is there is because some one was seriously injured and because the USA legal system is so screwed up in place of this idiot being castrated so he could not breed more idiot bastards or teach his children to be irresponsible fools he sued the mower makers for a bucket load of money.
Ever wondered why newer mowers have a host of complicated relays and very expensive interlock modules ?
Well the answer is the idiot staring at you in the mirror.
thanks lol...lighten up buddy...my dealer only gave me the owners manual for the kawasaki engine only...i'm still waiting for them to get me the mower owners manual cause i'm not printing it out and wasting $70 of printer ink...also that video is not mine...just found it on the internet...no way in hell i'm wasting my time making a video for youtube for anything...i've just had to do something similar on an older riding mower i've used cause even when you put on the parking brake when you get off the seat it still shuts down...was always easier to disable that feature and disengage the blades and get off on flat ground with the motor running...but if the parking brake keeps the motor running when i get off i will be plugging the seat switch back in and use the brake...was just looking for a way to pull up to a gate get off with it running get back on pull through the gate get back off with it running and shut the gate and get back on...not like i'm walking away from it to make a sandwich while it's sitting on a hill with the blades spinning with a bunch of puppies and kids at the bottom...but anyway have a good one :laughing:
#14
reynoldston
As I see it Bert had better read number 9 of the terms of use of this form. He had better look in the mirror at himself.
reynoldston
Interesting.
You have 2 functioning hands and can manage to stuff some twigs in a seat switch.
Monkeys can do that so you have at least the interlect of one of them
However you are too bone lazy to reach down with just one of those functioning hands & apply the parking brake which is put there so you can get on & off the mower safely when the engine is running.
Obviously you are interlectually deficient so could not either read not understand the operating manual for you mower which has instructions for safely getting off your mower which is interesting as you obviously did manage to read the operators manual for your video camera , or did you get another baboon to show you how?
Then to prove how "Smart" you are you make a video so other brain dead morons with no respect for the safety of both themselves , their family or passers by can emulate your magnificant discovery and STRIKE A BLOW FOR FREEDOM by circumventing something that was put there for your own good.
I really hope you get what you deserve, and by preferance you end up with your feet cut off at the neck because that would get rid of your useless head .
There is only one safety feature on a ride on that actually does protect the operator & the surrounding people and you think you are so smart that you not only defeat it but then go on to publish this so every other idiot moron who does not have the understanding of how the mower works can do the same.
The only reason that seat switch is there is because some one was seriously injured and because the USA legal system is so screwed up in place of this idiot being castrated so he could not breed more idiot bastards or teach his children to be irresponsible fools he sued the mower makers for a bucket load of money.
Ever wondered why newer mowers have a host of complicated relays and very expensive interlock modules ?
Well the answer is the idiot staring at you in the mirror.
As I see it Bert had better read number 9 of the terms of use of this form. He had better look in the mirror at himself.
#15
P
Point37
https://www.lawnworld.com/terms-of-use/
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You may not post on any section, or send to any other forum user or our employee, any material that:
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Additionally, you may not:
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Upload, post, email or otherwise transmit through the Services: unsolicited or unauthorized advertisements, promotional materials, “junk mail,” “spam,” “chain letters,” “surveys,” “polls,” or other forms of solicitation;
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Violation of this acceptable user policy may result in warning, account suspension, account deletion or any other action deemed necessary by IMC Digital Universe, Inc."
P
Point37
As I see it Bert had better read number 9 of the terms of use of this form. He had better look in the mirror at himself.
https://www.lawnworld.com/terms-of-use/
"9. Acceptable User Policy
You may not post on any section, or send to any other forum user or our employee, any material that:
infringes or violates any copyright, trademark, service mark, patent, trade secret, confidentiality rights or other rights of any third party;
is abusive, hateful, inflammatory, harmful, tortuous, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable;
is obscene, vulgar or pornographic;
you do not have a right to transmit under any law or contractual or other obligation;
is being used to harass, stalk or otherwise threaten a person;
is libelous, defamatory or invades any privacy or publicity rights of any third party;
impersonates any other person or otherwise falsely states or otherwise misrepresents an affiliation with a person or entity;
contains or promotes violence, drug use, illegal gambling or other criminal activity;
contains any virus, Trojan Horse or any other harmful or disabling software code;
contains or promotes any materials or information which may violate any law, rule, regulation, ordinance or requirement to which you or we are subject.
Additionally, you may not:
violate the posted rules & guidelines for a specific section of LawnWorld.com;
use this site if you are under the age of 13;
use any discussion forum in a commercial manner;
choose a user name with is obscene, unlawful or otherwise objectionable;
post material that solicits funds, or that advertises or solicits goods or services;
post or transmit material known to be false or misleading;
Upload, post, email or otherwise transmit through the Services: unsolicited or unauthorized advertisements, promotional materials, “junk mail,” “spam,” “chain letters,” “surveys,” “polls,” or other forms of solicitation;
Attempt to gain unauthorized access to other computer systems or networks connected to the Services;
post or transmit any information, software or other material that contains a virus or other harmful component; or
use the Sites to transmit any unsolicited messages to any recipient from whom you have not received prior demonstrable consent or in a manner that violates any law or obligation regarding the transmission of email messages.
Violation of this acceptable user policy may result in warning, account suspension, account deletion or any other action deemed necessary by IMC Digital Universe, Inc."
#16
B
bertsmobile1
Disableing a seat switch is ILLEGAL although I doubt any mower owner has ever been jailed for it, but down here service people who do it cop a $ 2000 fine
Posting things with facilitate illegal actions is also in contradiction of forum rules.
If the post makes just on person think twice before doing a stupid & in most cases totally unnecessary modification to their mower then it is worthwhile.
Generally I simply bypass threads requesting how to dissable safety switches and did so on this one till the video was posted.
I am not a believer in the nanny state and personnaly would preffer it if most safety features designed to prevent the careless & stupid doing SELF HARM were removed.
Lots of people walking around missing a few finger, hand, arm , leg etc are much better in reinforcing the fact that tools like mowers are dangerous & not toys than 50 pages of drivel in the front of a book that no one reads in any case.
The exception to this are things that prevent the idiots from doing injury to others like SEAT SWITCHES on mowers, cars than can not be started unless they are out of gear & parking brake applied.
When Rotary mowers became popular down here, the local best seller was nick named the "Toe Cutter" because the blades were lower than the base so you could pull it back over your foot.
Thus most men wore their work boots when they mowed, Then the deep dish decks became manditory and down here the decks must be 1" lower than the blades so if you walk around the burbs any weekend, near1/2 the idiots are mowing in thongs or sandals and the most common injury in casulty on summer weekends are lasserated toes from lawn mowers
B
bertsmobile1
As I see it Bert had better read number 9 of the terms of use of this form. He had better look in the mirror at himself.
Disableing a seat switch is ILLEGAL although I doubt any mower owner has ever been jailed for it, but down here service people who do it cop a $ 2000 fine
Posting things with facilitate illegal actions is also in contradiction of forum rules.
If the post makes just on person think twice before doing a stupid & in most cases totally unnecessary modification to their mower then it is worthwhile.
Generally I simply bypass threads requesting how to dissable safety switches and did so on this one till the video was posted.
I am not a believer in the nanny state and personnaly would preffer it if most safety features designed to prevent the careless & stupid doing SELF HARM were removed.
Lots of people walking around missing a few finger, hand, arm , leg etc are much better in reinforcing the fact that tools like mowers are dangerous & not toys than 50 pages of drivel in the front of a book that no one reads in any case.
The exception to this are things that prevent the idiots from doing injury to others like SEAT SWITCHES on mowers, cars than can not be started unless they are out of gear & parking brake applied.
When Rotary mowers became popular down here, the local best seller was nick named the "Toe Cutter" because the blades were lower than the base so you could pull it back over your foot.
Thus most men wore their work boots when they mowed, Then the deep dish decks became manditory and down here the decks must be 1" lower than the blades so if you walk around the burbs any weekend, near1/2 the idiots are mowing in thongs or sandals and the most common injury in casulty on summer weekends are lasserated toes from lawn mowers
#17
tom3
tom3
Did this on my father in law's Deere with a hose clamp around the switch pressing in on the button deal. When he started getting ditzy I undid this work-around for his safety. When he turned it over mowing the ditch that everyone kept telling him to stay away from I was kind of glad I did that. Then he and his wife got their Buick out, tied a rope around the trunk latch and pulled the mower out, and destroyed the back end of the Buick. Lawn service started the next week. If you are mowing an area and the seat switch is shutting down the motor I'd suggest leaving it alone.
#18
reynoldston
This is the USA not Australia and you can do what ever you want on your personal mower and the mower police could care less. Disabling a seat switch isn't a illegal action on your own mower in our country so it has nothing to do with forum rules. Now calling a fellow forum member a idiot isn't the right thing to do just because you don't agree with them. I don't always agree with you but will never call you names over it like some child would. We want more members so don't try to drive them away. When a customer comes into my shop I don't encourage removing any safety equipment or switches but will do so if that is what I am paid to do and the customer understands this.
reynoldston
Disableing a seat switch is ILLEGAL although I doubt any mower owner has ever been jailed for it, but down here service people who do it cop a $ 2000 fine
Posting things with facilitate illegal actions is also in contradiction of forum rules.
This is the USA not Australia and you can do what ever you want on your personal mower and the mower police could care less. Disabling a seat switch isn't a illegal action on your own mower in our country so it has nothing to do with forum rules. Now calling a fellow forum member a idiot isn't the right thing to do just because you don't agree with them. I don't always agree with you but will never call you names over it like some child would. We want more members so don't try to drive them away. When a customer comes into my shop I don't encourage removing any safety equipment or switches but will do so if that is what I am paid to do and the customer understands this.
#19
J
JohnFM
J
JohnFM
"This is the USA not Australia and you can do what ever you want on your personal mower and the mower police could care less. Disabling a seat switch isn't a illegal action on your own mower in our country"
Yes.
Yes.
#20
P
Point37
No worries I have thick skin...I also find it comical when people insult others over the internet anyway...lawn mower police :laughing: they carry the same authority as the grammar police, the midnight snack police, the Netflix password sharing police and the toilet seat police
+1 and we can own guns, we have thanksgiving and ketchup at McDonald’s is free...
P
Point37
This is the USA not Australia and you can do what ever you want on your personal mower and the mower police could care less. Disabling a seat switch isn't a illegal action on your own mower in our country so it has nothing to do with forum rules. Now calling a fellow forum member a idiot isn't the right thing to do just because you don't agree with them. I don't always agree with you but will never call you names over it like some child would. We want more members so don't try to drive them away. When a customer comes into my shop I don't encourage removing any safety equipment or switches but will do so if that is what I am paid to do and the customer understands this.
No worries I have thick skin...I also find it comical when people insult others over the internet anyway...lawn mower police :laughing: they carry the same authority as the grammar police, the midnight snack police, the Netflix password sharing police and the toilet seat police
"This is the USA not Australia and you can do what ever you want on your personal mower and the mower police could care less. Disabling a seat switch isn't a illegal action on your own mower in our country"
Yes.
+1 and we can own guns, we have thanksgiving and ketchup at McDonald’s is free...
#21
reynoldston
I just have to watch out for them toilet seat police, I have one of the in my house that I live with :laughing:
reynoldston
No worries I have thick skin...I also find it comical when people insult others over the internet anyway...lawn mower police :laughing: they carry the same authority as the grammar police, the midnight snack police, the Netflix password sharing police and the toilet seat police
e...
]
I just have to watch out for them toilet seat police, I have one of the in my house that I live with :laughing:
#22
P
Point37
get these and never put the lid down again...instant night light...just say you bought it so you don't have to wake her up when you get up at night... :thumbsup:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M2ZI34E/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
P
Point37
I just have to watch out for them toilet seat police, I have one of the in my house that I live with :laughing:
get these and never put the lid down again...instant night light...just say you bought it so you don't have to wake her up when you get up at night... :thumbsup:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M2ZI34E/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
#23
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Just a note about disabling legality. If a unit comes into a service center with any safety switches disabled, the service center has two choices. Call the customer and let them know that for you to work on the unit, all safety switches must be in working order before they can return it to the customer. Or refuse to do any work on the unit. This is the law in this country, as well as a requirement by most insurance companies. Yes, there are safety police out there looking for those who do not comply and the fine if caught is hefty, plus your insurance company is notified. Had one customer that cut apart half the wiring harness and since he wanted the unit repaired his bill got very pricey. Just a warning if you ever need service and have disabled switches. The choice is yours.
#24
reynoldston
Boy just which out for them lawn mower police because they might just follow you around your lawn when are out mowing. :thumbsup: I give the customer what ever they want done to there mower. Yes if a mower comes into my shop with a wiring problem all safety switches and guards will be working proper when I am done unless told different by the customer. But I also work cash only, no insurance, pay taxes for my parts, and no record of any of the repairs. All the laws and insurance is the very reason you will be paying the big dollars at the dealership for your repairs.
reynoldston
Just a note about disabling legality. If a unit comes into a service center with any safety switches disabled, the service center has two choices. Call the customer and let them know that for you to work on the unit, all safety switches must be in working order before they can return it to the customer. Or refuse to do any work on the unit. This is the law in this country, as well as a requirement by most insurance companies. Yes, there are safety police out there looking for those who do not comply and the fine if caught is hefty, plus your insurance company is notified. Had one customer that cut apart half the wiring harness and since he wanted the unit repaired his bill got very pricey. Just a warning if you ever need service and have disabled switches. The choice is yours.
Boy just which out for them lawn mower police because they might just follow you around your lawn when are out mowing. :thumbsup: I give the customer what ever they want done to there mower. Yes if a mower comes into my shop with a wiring problem all safety switches and guards will be working proper when I am done unless told different by the customer. But I also work cash only, no insurance, pay taxes for my parts, and no record of any of the repairs. All the laws and insurance is the very reason you will be paying the big dollars at the dealership for your repairs.
#25
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Reynoldston, as you know it is called CYA. Your business and the one I work for do not compare. All we would need is one customer get hurt because we did not follow the laws and we could be down the drain. People would be surprised at some of the rules we have to follow. Ex. a mower with a hole in the deck falls under the same rules as a safety switch. In no way am I saying I agree with these rules, but it does illustrate why labor rates can get out of control. Three years ago we had a customer who tried to sue us because we gave him back a blade which we would not sharpen, because it was worn too badly. The wing was undercut and broke off, ending up in the side of his car. Claimed we should have never returned the blade to him, because it was unsafe to use. He filed the edge himself and put it back on the mower. He lost, but it still cost us money, which we could not recover because the court would not rule it was a frivolous law suit. What else can we do???
#26
B
bertsmobile1
Yes and no matter what we do sooner or latter we will all be there.
Running the repair shop blind is well & good till some one gets hurt.
Even if you only work for friends, a hospital visit will result in an automatic investiation and then there are the sharks who lurk in emergency centres.
"It was his fault & I can get you $ 200,000. Just sign this form " and a distressed parent of an injured child is more than likely to just sign the form without any thought.
I do not believe in most of the back side covering that goes on because the courts will not recognise personal responsibility for your own safety.
Then you get the religious fanatics who will not accept that we are responsible for any of our own actions.
Finally, judges are all appointed from the pool of lawers and personal injury claims are big money earners for lawers so they tend to look favourably on the most absurd claims when presented by reputable lawers.
Because both our legal systems work on preceedent once one bleeding heart claim is approved it is open season.
However the seat switch is the only safety device that does in fact protect both the user and bystanders and there is no possible valid reason for defeating it.
The only partially justifiable reason is if it is too sensitive and causes the engine to stutter when traversing very rough ground at inappropriately fast speeds, but that can be rectified fairly easily.
What I do find hard to believe that is a country with an overly zealous legal system lawers are not suing face book, you tube and the individual posted for injury compensation after their idiot moron client followed some other shaved monkeys instruction then managed to injure themselves.
B
bertsmobile1
Reynoldston, as you know it is called CYA. Your business and the one I work for do not compare. All we would need is one customer get hurt because we did not follow the laws and we could be down the drain. People would be surprised at some of the rules we have to follow. Ex. a mower with a hole in the deck falls under the same rules as a safety switch. In no way am I saying I agree with these rules, but it does illustrate why labor rates can get out of control. Three years ago we had a customer who tried to sue us because we gave him back a blade which we would not sharpen, because it was worn too badly. The wing was undercut and broke off, ending up in the side of his car. Claimed we should have never returned the blade to him, because it was unsafe to use. He filed the edge himself and put it back on the mower. He lost, but it still cost us money, which we could not recover because the court would not rule it was a frivolous law suit. What else can we do???
Yes and no matter what we do sooner or latter we will all be there.
Running the repair shop blind is well & good till some one gets hurt.
Even if you only work for friends, a hospital visit will result in an automatic investiation and then there are the sharks who lurk in emergency centres.
"It was his fault & I can get you $ 200,000. Just sign this form " and a distressed parent of an injured child is more than likely to just sign the form without any thought.
I do not believe in most of the back side covering that goes on because the courts will not recognise personal responsibility for your own safety.
Then you get the religious fanatics who will not accept that we are responsible for any of our own actions.
Finally, judges are all appointed from the pool of lawers and personal injury claims are big money earners for lawers so they tend to look favourably on the most absurd claims when presented by reputable lawers.
Because both our legal systems work on preceedent once one bleeding heart claim is approved it is open season.
However the seat switch is the only safety device that does in fact protect both the user and bystanders and there is no possible valid reason for defeating it.
The only partially justifiable reason is if it is too sensitive and causes the engine to stutter when traversing very rough ground at inappropriately fast speeds, but that can be rectified fairly easily.
What I do find hard to believe that is a country with an overly zealous legal system lawers are not suing face book, you tube and the individual posted for injury compensation after their idiot moron client followed some other shaved monkeys instruction then managed to injure themselves.
#27
P
Point37
is this an actual law or just typical repair shop policy?...if it's a law i'd like to read it...i understand the legality for a repair shop when coming across disabled safety equipment to notify the customer so the shop can either refuse to work on it...customer has to pay for the labor and parts for the safety repairs...or customer refuses repair and brings the unit to another shop...cause giving a unit back with disabled safety features and having someone get hurt can invite lawsuits...i just don't think i've ever read a law in text about it and would be curious to...and i've definitely never seen/heard it enforced in the case of a lawnmower...but i have seen osha hand out fines on construction sites but osha doesn't cover consumers...but if i bring my car in to get an oil change and they tell me my brakes need to be fixed or my tires are bald they will still do the oil change and not do the brakes so wouldn't that be illegal as well?...nothing was disabled but they are letting me leave with an unsafe vehicle...or what about when we had our toyota tacoma fail the frame rust inspection due to numerous holes in the frame (i could put my whole hand inside one of the holes) and they determined it was a candidate for buyback but allowed us to drive it home anyway...wouldn't that be illegal?
P
Point37
Just a note about disabling legality. If a unit comes into a service center with any safety switches disabled, the service center has two choices. Call the customer and let them know that for you to work on the unit, all safety switches must be in working order before they can return it to the customer. Or refuse to do any work on the unit. This is the law in this country, as well as a requirement by most insurance companies. Yes, there are safety police out there looking for those who do not comply and the fine if caught is hefty, plus your insurance company is notified. Had one customer that cut apart half the wiring harness and since he wanted the unit repaired his bill got very pricey. Just a warning if you ever need service and have disabled switches. The choice is yours.
is this an actual law or just typical repair shop policy?...if it's a law i'd like to read it...i understand the legality for a repair shop when coming across disabled safety equipment to notify the customer so the shop can either refuse to work on it...customer has to pay for the labor and parts for the safety repairs...or customer refuses repair and brings the unit to another shop...cause giving a unit back with disabled safety features and having someone get hurt can invite lawsuits...i just don't think i've ever read a law in text about it and would be curious to...and i've definitely never seen/heard it enforced in the case of a lawnmower...but i have seen osha hand out fines on construction sites but osha doesn't cover consumers...but if i bring my car in to get an oil change and they tell me my brakes need to be fixed or my tires are bald they will still do the oil change and not do the brakes so wouldn't that be illegal as well?...nothing was disabled but they are letting me leave with an unsafe vehicle...or what about when we had our toyota tacoma fail the frame rust inspection due to numerous holes in the frame (i could put my whole hand inside one of the holes) and they determined it was a candidate for buyback but allowed us to drive it home anyway...wouldn't that be illegal?
#28
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Actual laws will vary, but down here if a car came in like that it could go back out with the bald tyres & bad brakes because the workshop could not have caused that damage during the oil change.
The caveat on this is if the workshop also fixes brakes & replaces tyres then they must put the warning about the brakes & tyres on the customers invoice . In some other states it could not leave the workshop in an unroadworthy condition unless it was towed away.
However if it came in for a service the workshop is liable for the brakes so it can not go back out with the brakes not working.
It causes a lot of problems when quoting for repairs.
Some one comes in for a clutch replacement if their car has a leaking sump & radiator the workshop is obliged to fix the sump leak because it could have been done in the workshop but not the radiator.
Down here mowers & such is consumer law, enforced by which ever department polices it.
On a commercial mower it will be OH&S on a domestic mower it is Consumer Affairs, if a person is injured then it is a police matter.
Down here the actual statutes change almost on a daily basis, the State Parliament Library sends out notification to the mower repair associations and all brand franchise holders and from there it filters down to the individual workshops.
Antii - pollution stuff is policed by the EPA and they have search rights so they can & do just turn up and inspect all the jobs in your workshop although this is normally done on a tip off.
A silly example is if I put a new chain on your saw you can walk out the door with it.
If I supply it in a carton I have to give you a 4 page safety warning and the box must state "Warning SHARP " on the outside and be sealed with tape.
The caveat on this is if the workshop also fixes brakes & replaces tyres then they must put the warning about the brakes & tyres on the customers invoice . In some other states it could not leave the workshop in an unroadworthy condition unless it was towed away.
However if it came in for a service the workshop is liable for the brakes so it can not go back out with the brakes not working.
It causes a lot of problems when quoting for repairs.
Some one comes in for a clutch replacement if their car has a leaking sump & radiator the workshop is obliged to fix the sump leak because it could have been done in the workshop but not the radiator.
Down here mowers & such is consumer law, enforced by which ever department polices it.
On a commercial mower it will be OH&S on a domestic mower it is Consumer Affairs, if a person is injured then it is a police matter.
Down here the actual statutes change almost on a daily basis, the State Parliament Library sends out notification to the mower repair associations and all brand franchise holders and from there it filters down to the individual workshops.
Antii - pollution stuff is policed by the EPA and they have search rights so they can & do just turn up and inspect all the jobs in your workshop although this is normally done on a tip off.
A silly example is if I put a new chain on your saw you can walk out the door with it.
If I supply it in a carton I have to give you a 4 page safety warning and the box must state "Warning SHARP " on the outside and be sealed with tape.
#29
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Have you ever seen this warning in your owners manual. If you want you can review the sites listed below. Repair shops are required to make sure all safety devices are present and in working order. Search OSHA and ANSI, and it will drive you nuts, but to protect yourself, you follow the rules. Did you know that the original rule prompting the lawn mower dead man control was the result of two guys who used a lawn mower to trim the hedge between their properties. Started the mower, grabbed it by the deck and when something slipped they both lost multiple fingers each. Now was this something that manufacturers need to guard against, it is now. As a retired instructor there were two rules I always started each class with. Rule 1, you can’t fix stupid. Rule 2, you can’t change rule #1. Do as you wish, and know the consequences can cost you.
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[FONT="][FONT="]Removal or modi cation of original equipment, parts and/or accessories may alter the warranty, controllability, and safety of the machine. Unauthorized modi cations to the original equipment or failure to use original parts could lead to serious injury or death. Unauthorized changes to the machine, engine, fuel or venting system, may violate applicable safety standards such as: ANSI, OSHA and NFPA and/or government regulations such as EPA and CARB.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT="][FONT="]https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/16/120[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT="][FONT="]https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9850[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT="][FONT="]https://www.pvamu.edu/bsrv/wp-content/uploads/sites/148/2016/05/Chap%2015%20Lawn%20Care%20Operations.doc[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT="][FONT="]https://ohsonline.com/articles/2013...ety-device-resulting-in-worker-death.aspx?m=2[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="][/FONT]
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[FONT="][FONT="]Removal or modi cation of original equipment, parts and/or accessories may alter the warranty, controllability, and safety of the machine. Unauthorized modi cations to the original equipment or failure to use original parts could lead to serious injury or death. Unauthorized changes to the machine, engine, fuel or venting system, may violate applicable safety standards such as: ANSI, OSHA and NFPA and/or government regulations such as EPA and CARB.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="][/FONT]
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[FONT="][FONT="]https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/16/120[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT="][FONT="]https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9850[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="][/FONT]
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[FONT="][FONT="]https://www.pvamu.edu/bsrv/wp-content/uploads/sites/148/2016/05/Chap%2015%20Lawn%20Care%20Operations.doc[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT="][FONT="]https://ohsonline.com/articles/2013...ety-device-resulting-in-worker-death.aspx?m=2[/FONT][/FONT]
#30
P
Point37
P
Point37
i mean every time a safety decal falls off a mower it would be considered modifying OEM equipment and a safety issue and i doubt shops replace decals
the cornell link is just safety standards not law
OSHA link covers the workplace so it would cover a shop but it won't cover a homeowner/consumer use of a mower...
the university lawn safety link rules aren't law
the last article link is a workplace incident so not really relevant to a homeowner/consumer...
ANSI is standards of manufacturing which helps protect consumers from faulty manufacturing...also doesn't affect a homeowner/consumer unless equipment is defective...
NFPA is fire codes and standards...
EPA and CARB is for environmental pollution...
no that warning isn't in the owners manual...but there are other warnings but that's it...doesn't state that modifying anything is illegal...
http://service.webec.husqvarna.net/documents/HUSO/HUSO2018_NAenNAes/HUSO2018_NAenNAes__115982049.pdf
i just can't seem to find a law that pertains to a homeowner/consumer...
the cornell link is just safety standards not law
OSHA link covers the workplace so it would cover a shop but it won't cover a homeowner/consumer use of a mower...
the university lawn safety link rules aren't law
the last article link is a workplace incident so not really relevant to a homeowner/consumer...
ANSI is standards of manufacturing which helps protect consumers from faulty manufacturing...also doesn't affect a homeowner/consumer unless equipment is defective...
NFPA is fire codes and standards...
EPA and CARB is for environmental pollution...
no that warning isn't in the owners manual...but there are other warnings but that's it...doesn't state that modifying anything is illegal...
http://service.webec.husqvarna.net/documents/HUSO/HUSO2018_NAenNAes/HUSO2018_NAenNAes__115982049.pdf
i just can't seem to find a law that pertains to a homeowner/consumer...
#31
reynoldston
reynoldston
Any service shop I ever worked for the service writer make up a repair order. You repair whats on the order and if more work is needed you contact the service writer and they contact the customer. Just never got involved with all this safety business you keep talking about ??? Maybe they do this different in small shops? Looks like a good way to crank the customer off so they don't keep coming back to bother you with their repairs.
#32
P
Point37
^^^this is what i have seen as well...the other situation is kind of like if you go to jiffy lube for an oil change and they want to change your air filter for $40, windshield wipers for $30, etc...so you want to charge me a stupid price for something i could do myself for $15 and 5 minutes...or better yet just blow out with an air compressor and go for another couple oil changes for free...not exactly the techs fault but the people who run jiffy lube...that makes you mad and doesn't make you want to go back there for anything...if i go to a lawn mower shop and tell them to do something...i want that thing done and that's it...they can tell me about other stuff and i would naturally refuse it...but if they were to ever say we did some extra safety item work (or any kind of work really) that i didn't ask for and didn't agree to and wanted to charge me an extra $50 labor and parts for it i would say thanks for the free work cause i didn't ask for that and i'm not paying for that portion...they can't refuse to give you your property back...this is why they call and you can refuse no matter if it's a safety item or not...but they can just tell you the work took longer and add that expense into the labor cost...this is why i try to do my own repairs
P
Point37
Any service shop I ever worked for the service writer make up a repair order. You repair whats on the order and if more work is needed you contact the service writer and they contact the customer. Just never got involved with all this safety business you keep talking about ??? Maybe they do this different in small shops? Looks like a good way to crank the customer off so they don't keep coming back to bother you with their repairs.
^^^this is what i have seen as well...the other situation is kind of like if you go to jiffy lube for an oil change and they want to change your air filter for $40, windshield wipers for $30, etc...so you want to charge me a stupid price for something i could do myself for $15 and 5 minutes...or better yet just blow out with an air compressor and go for another couple oil changes for free...not exactly the techs fault but the people who run jiffy lube...that makes you mad and doesn't make you want to go back there for anything...if i go to a lawn mower shop and tell them to do something...i want that thing done and that's it...they can tell me about other stuff and i would naturally refuse it...but if they were to ever say we did some extra safety item work (or any kind of work really) that i didn't ask for and didn't agree to and wanted to charge me an extra $50 labor and parts for it i would say thanks for the free work cause i didn't ask for that and i'm not paying for that portion...they can't refuse to give you your property back...this is why they call and you can refuse no matter if it's a safety item or not...but they can just tell you the work took longer and add that expense into the labor cost...this is why i try to do my own repairs
#33
reynoldston
There is nothing wrong with a honest service shop. Many people don't have the tools, skills or care about getting their hands dirty to do there own repairs. This is how I made a living all my working life. As a mechanic you always try to sell work that is needed.
reynoldston
^^^this is what i have seen as well...the other situation is kind of like if you go to jiffy lube for an oil change and they want to change your air filter for $40, windshield wipers for $30, etc...so you want to charge me a stupid price for something i could do myself for $15 and 5 minutes...or better yet just blow out with an air compressor and go for another couple oil changes for free...not exactly the techs fault but the people who run jiffy lube...that makes you mad and doesn't make you want to go back there for anything...if i go to a lawn mower shop and tell them to do something...i want that thing done and that's it...they can tell me about other stuff and i would naturally refuse it...but if they were to ever say we did some extra safety item work (or any kind of work really) that i didn't ask for and didn't agree to and wanted to charge me an extra $50 labor and parts for it i would say thanks for the free work cause i didn't ask for that and i'm not paying for that portion...they can't refuse to give you your property back...this is why they call and you can refuse no matter if it's a safety item or not...but they can just tell you the work took longer and add that expense into the labor cost...this is why i try to do my own repairs
There is nothing wrong with a honest service shop. Many people don't have the tools, skills or care about getting their hands dirty to do there own repairs. This is how I made a living all my working life. As a mechanic you always try to sell work that is needed.
#34
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
I never said the laws pertain to the homeowner or consumer, they apply to the business. I can tell that you have never owned or operated a business or have had to purchase insurance to cover you working on other people’s property. It is expensive, but an evil necessity. It also includes what you must do to avoid voiding a claim. OSHA rules are considered laws which you must abide by. Yes, safety decals should be replaced, but very few businesses do that. I think I can count on one hand the number of customers lost at any of the shops I have worked at in the last 40 years. The company I currently work for is a family owned business and has been here for more than 65 years and we have sales of over $700,000 the last three years. These rules have not hurt us, because our customers know they are dealing with honest people who are looking out for them. Our repeat business makes up for over 50% of our sales each year and that does not include more than enough service work to keep four techs busy an average of 45 hours a week each. With that I think we are doing thing right. You can do and believe what you want, I’m just telling you what we are obligated to do.
#35
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Yep,
Rivits has it down pat.
My public liability insurance is the single biggest cost .
It is 3% of my annual turnover or $ 4500 which ever is the highest.
Sounds very expensive, but they cover all legal costs and you wont get much of a mouth in front of a beak for $ 4000 down here.
That gives me $ 200,000,000 of cover.
If I had a workshop with employee mechanics that figure has an addition cost on a per mechanic basis.
There was a retail shop & workshop about 5 miles away, family business & good profit but he sent out a mower with no discharge chute cover and a non functional seat switch.
The customer loaned his mower to his neighbour who got off to open a gate, slipped, put his foot into the open deck chute and I don't need to tell you the rest of the storey.
OH&S prosecuted the mower owner for operating a dangerous machine & failing to have the mandated safety warnings on the machine .He lost his farm over it. Small people are easy targets and ministers like to sprout X number of successful prosecutions to prove they are doing a good job.
The insurance company covered the shops cost , the medicals & compensation for the farmer who lost his leg.
Then they sought to recover cost from the mower shop owner for "conrtributory neglegence".
They sold his business, the land it sat on & his home, His wife left him and being over 70, broke & homeless, he applied the 12 bore solution.
This was before my time, but I was curious about what happened to his shop cause about 1/3 of my customers have one of his tags on their mowers.
So loosing a customer or two is no big worry to me, 100 good customers is a lot better than 200 customer who expect me to jepodise my future cause they are too bone lazy to put a brake on before they get off their mower.
I am increasing my customer base all the time because I treat them with respect and take the time to explain what is going on, much like I do with my posts here.
Customers appreciate this, particularly women who account for about 75% of my work as most mechanics treat them like idiots.
There are a lot more widows and old spinsters around here who are happy to pay me $ 15 to put the chain back on their chainsaw or pop the deck back on their mower.
And funny enough, most of them ask me to fix the seat switch that their husband went to great lengths to disable.
Rivits has it down pat.
My public liability insurance is the single biggest cost .
It is 3% of my annual turnover or $ 4500 which ever is the highest.
Sounds very expensive, but they cover all legal costs and you wont get much of a mouth in front of a beak for $ 4000 down here.
That gives me $ 200,000,000 of cover.
If I had a workshop with employee mechanics that figure has an addition cost on a per mechanic basis.
There was a retail shop & workshop about 5 miles away, family business & good profit but he sent out a mower with no discharge chute cover and a non functional seat switch.
The customer loaned his mower to his neighbour who got off to open a gate, slipped, put his foot into the open deck chute and I don't need to tell you the rest of the storey.
OH&S prosecuted the mower owner for operating a dangerous machine & failing to have the mandated safety warnings on the machine .He lost his farm over it. Small people are easy targets and ministers like to sprout X number of successful prosecutions to prove they are doing a good job.
The insurance company covered the shops cost , the medicals & compensation for the farmer who lost his leg.
Then they sought to recover cost from the mower shop owner for "conrtributory neglegence".
They sold his business, the land it sat on & his home, His wife left him and being over 70, broke & homeless, he applied the 12 bore solution.
This was before my time, but I was curious about what happened to his shop cause about 1/3 of my customers have one of his tags on their mowers.
So loosing a customer or two is no big worry to me, 100 good customers is a lot better than 200 customer who expect me to jepodise my future cause they are too bone lazy to put a brake on before they get off their mower.
I am increasing my customer base all the time because I treat them with respect and take the time to explain what is going on, much like I do with my posts here.
Customers appreciate this, particularly women who account for about 75% of my work as most mechanics treat them like idiots.
There are a lot more widows and old spinsters around here who are happy to pay me $ 15 to put the chain back on their chainsaw or pop the deck back on their mower.
And funny enough, most of them ask me to fix the seat switch that their husband went to great lengths to disable.
#36
P
Point37
i understand selling work is part of the job...but a shop that tries to sell work at a crazy price or does the work and wants to charge you for it without first talking to you is dishonest and won't get my business...which is why i bought my mower from a family owned store which values repeat customers
that's what i'm asking about is this situation in particular...i'm not talking about a business...i can't find a law that i would be violating as a homeowner/consumer by disabling a safety seat kill switch on a riding lawnmower...if there is no law saying it's illegal then it's not illegal
P
Point37
There is nothing wrong with a honest service shop. Many people don't have the tools, skills or care about getting their hands dirty to do there own repairs. This is how I made a living all my working life. As a mechanic you always try to sell work that is needed.
i understand selling work is part of the job...but a shop that tries to sell work at a crazy price or does the work and wants to charge you for it without first talking to you is dishonest and won't get my business...which is why i bought my mower from a family owned store which values repeat customers
Rivets said:I never said the laws pertain to the homeowner or consumer, they apply to the business. I can tell that you have never owned or operated a business or have had to purchase insurance to cover you working on other people’s property. It is expensive, but an evil necessity. It also includes what you must do to avoid voiding a claim. OSHA rules are considered laws which you must abide by. Yes, safety decals should be replaced, but very few businesses do that. I think I can count on one hand the number of customers lost at any of the shops I have worked at in the last 40 years. The company I currently work for is a family owned business and has been here for more than 65 years and we have sales of over $700,000 the last three years. These rules have not hurt us, because our customers know they are dealing with honest people who are looking out for them. Our repeat business makes up for over 50% of our sales each year and that does not include more than enough service work to keep four techs busy an average of 45 hours a week each. With that I think we are doing thing right. You can do and believe what you want, I’m just telling you what we are obligated to do.
that's what i'm asking about is this situation in particular...i'm not talking about a business...i can't find a law that i would be violating as a homeowner/consumer by disabling a safety seat kill switch on a riding lawnmower...if there is no law saying it's illegal then it's not illegal
#37
reynoldston
To sell the work its the service writers job to sell it to the customer not the mechanic's. As far as cost go's it depends on how the shop pays the mechanic. I have worked in both type of shops, one charges by the job and the other charges by the hour. Personally I would stay away from the shops that charge by the job because the mechanics are always trying to get the job done fast and sloppy so they can make more money, called a flat rate shop. This also makes for dishonest work. It also depends on if that bolt that is giving you a hard go's in the garbage (flat rate) or job done right (hourly shop). Yes it is expensive having work done at any large shop because of a large overhead they have. You will also find that the large shops that service is their secondary means of making money and sales is the primary means. I have been told by management they would do away with the service part of the business if they could but they can't.
reynoldston
i understand selling work is part of the job...but a shop that tries to sell work at a crazy price or does the work and wants to charge you for it without first talking to you is dishonest and won't get my business...which is why i bought my mower from a family owned store which values repeat customers
l
To sell the work its the service writers job to sell it to the customer not the mechanic's. As far as cost go's it depends on how the shop pays the mechanic. I have worked in both type of shops, one charges by the job and the other charges by the hour. Personally I would stay away from the shops that charge by the job because the mechanics are always trying to get the job done fast and sloppy so they can make more money, called a flat rate shop. This also makes for dishonest work. It also depends on if that bolt that is giving you a hard go's in the garbage (flat rate) or job done right (hourly shop). Yes it is expensive having work done at any large shop because of a large overhead they have. You will also find that the large shops that service is their secondary means of making money and sales is the primary means. I have been told by management they would do away with the service part of the business if they could but they can't.
#38
B
bertsmobile1
You will find that what is illegal for a shop to do is also illegal for the home owner to do.
There is a term for this extension of the coverage of an act but it does not come to mind right now.
The only difference is there is a department who can & does investigate workshops where as they do not extend this to private households, until some one is injured or makes an insurance claim.
Consumer law is universal because it applies to the item, not the person using or repairing it.
You might like to have a chat to your household insurance provider and ask them what would happen if you loaned some one a mower that you had bypassed the safety switches on & they injured themselves, some one else or property. Then ask the same about your own family .
The word "propriater" also applies to home owners equally as much as it does to shop owners.
LAw is not simple and that is why we need lawers to interperate it.
Down here when you buy a new mower there will be no key in it.
The keys will be sealed inside the owners manual or a safety manual which you have to cut open to get the keys.
Thus all safety requirements have then been transferred to the owner.
If you just cut it and pulled the key out without reading the manual that is your fault, not the product makers or distributors fault as far as the law down here is concerned.
B
bertsmobile1
that's what i'm asking about is this situation in particular...i'm not talking about a business...i can't find a law that i would be violating as a homeowner/consumer by disabling a safety seat kill switch on a riding lawnmower...if there is no law saying it's illegal then it's not illegal
You will find that what is illegal for a shop to do is also illegal for the home owner to do.
There is a term for this extension of the coverage of an act but it does not come to mind right now.
The only difference is there is a department who can & does investigate workshops where as they do not extend this to private households, until some one is injured or makes an insurance claim.
Consumer law is universal because it applies to the item, not the person using or repairing it.
You might like to have a chat to your household insurance provider and ask them what would happen if you loaned some one a mower that you had bypassed the safety switches on & they injured themselves, some one else or property. Then ask the same about your own family .
The word "propriater" also applies to home owners equally as much as it does to shop owners.
LAw is not simple and that is why we need lawers to interperate it.
Down here when you buy a new mower there will be no key in it.
The keys will be sealed inside the owners manual or a safety manual which you have to cut open to get the keys.
Thus all safety requirements have then been transferred to the owner.
If you just cut it and pulled the key out without reading the manual that is your fault, not the product makers or distributors fault as far as the law down here is concerned.