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My son in law is in a nightmare every mowing season keeping his lawn (approx. 3/4 acre urban lot) cut. The grass is way too thick - the neighbors tell him that the man who owned the house two owners before him was obsessive about overseeding - he was out there over-seeding all the time, and that's what created the problem.

I'm not a landscaper, but I'll just say that you've got to see this grass to believe it - if you try to slip your fingers down to dirt, you can't get there - there is absolutely no space between blades down near the ground.

About 4 years ago, he bought a Cub Cadet walk behind thinking it might handle it - it looks to be maybe the CC760 model (looking at pictures of current models). I know the engine is a 10.5 HP. But the engine doesn't have a problem - it's the belt - requires replacing often, and the mower can barely cut it on even the highest blade setting and creeping along - it takes him much of his off time to cut it - and he sometimes doesn't get it finished.

He has hired a pro to cut it a couple of times, and their professional-grade mowers were able to cut it, but they told him it was tough to do even with their equipment.

Out of desparation, he's starting to talk about getting a really expensive pro-grade mower. To help him avoid that, I've been trying to think of how to drastically thin out the grass. I know dethatchers aren't made for this purpose, but I'm thinking renting one of those and devoting a whole weekend to the chore, we could use that to pull up a lot of the extra grass and thin it out. I know it's going to create a huge pile of debris, but we'll just haul that off in my F-150 (several full loads I'm sure). I told him that even if it pulls up 90% of the grass and it looks like crap at first, so what, in a year or two, he could have it to being a "normal" lawn. I suggested also that after the dethatching, he could also rent an aerator - that would likely help the remaining grass spread to a more natural spacing and begin to breathe a little - that wouldn't have to be done right away, but might be a good additional step.

What are your thoughts? Short of doing a chemical scorched-earth treatment and totally starting the lawn over, is there any merit to my idea of using a power dethatcher? Better ideas?

Thanks for any help.

Peva said:

My son in law is in a nightmare every mowing season keeping his lawn (approx. 3/4 acre urban lot) cut. The grass is way too thick - the neighbors tell him that the man who owned the house two owners before him was obsessive about overseeding - he was out there over-seeding all the time, and that's what created the problem.

I'm not a landscaper, but I'll just say that you've got to see this grass to believe it - if you try to slip your fingers down to dirt, you can't get there - there is absolutely no space between blades down near the ground.

About 4 years ago, he bought a Cub Cadet walk behind thinking it might handle it - it looks to be maybe the CC760 model (looking at pictures of current models). I know the engine is a 10.5 HP. But the engine doesn't have a problem - it's the belt - requires replacing often, and the mower can barely cut it on even the highest blade setting and creeping along - it takes him much of his off time to cut it - and he sometimes doesn't get it finished.

He has hired a pro to cut it a couple of times, and their professional-grade mowers were able to cut it, but they told him it was tough to do even with their equipment.

Out of desparation, he's starting to talk about getting a really expensive pro-grade mower. To help him avoid that, I've been trying to think of how to drastically thin out the grass. I know dethatchers aren't made for this purpose, but I'm thinking renting one of those and devoting a whole weekend to the chore, we could use that to pull up a lot of the extra grass and thin it out. I know it's going to create a huge pile of debris, but we'll just haul that off in my F-150 (several full loads I'm sure). I told him that even if it pulls up 90% of the grass and it looks like crap at first, so what, in a year or two, he could have it to being a "normal" lawn. I suggested also that after the dethatching, he could also rent an aerator - that would likely help the remaining grass spread to a more natural spacing and begin to breathe a little - that wouldn't have to be done right away, but might be a good additional step.

What are your thoughts? Short of doing a chemical scorched-earth treatment and totally starting the lawn over, is there any merit to my idea of using a power dethatcher? Better ideas?

Thanks for any help.

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Can use a core aerator and rake up the plugs? That would thin it out a bit

If he would not let it get tall that even with the deck all the way up he had trouble cutting it.

Most people wish they where so lucky to have grass like this. Cut it every week keep it under 3 inch.

If the belt slips and the engine does not big down then get a belt a half inch shorter. Or clean your pulleys The engine should stall before the belt slips.

(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))

exotion said:

Can use a core aerator and rake up the plugs? That would thin it out a bit

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That was my first thought too

Carscw - The problem is that the time it takes if he were to gear down low enough to keep it short (he works full time and right now is taking classes towards a degree - almost finished). Think of trying to paint the San Francisco Bay Bridge if the paint started flaking off and it started rusting before you got even half way across it. If it rains, that's time (when he's not working or studying) that he can't cut it, and then it grows rapidly from the rain, then he can never catch up - that's why I call it a nightmare. I'll mention to him about cleaning the pulleys, and maybe trying a shorter belt (if it will work that way - not sure if it would allow the blade to cutoff with a shorter belt).

In fact, I sent him the link to the discussion, and he's reading this now. Hey Danny - register and join in the discussion if you want to!

Exotion and corba2k1 - What you say makes sense. I just hope the aerator can punch thru the depth and density. We may just have to bite the bullet and dedicate a weekend, take most of a Saturday to cut it shorter like Carscw suggests - maybe cut twice at different heights (and have an extra belt on hand - at $30 each!), and then aerate and rake up the plugs (maybe haul them over to my yard ).

Go to a auto parts store but two cheap belts a half inch shorter. If he can bag then bag. The cut clippings are harder to recut than the grass it self. Or make a row of clippings and pick them up. U know its going to take a whole day but do it three times if you have to. Get it down under a inch with all the clippings gone. I know it's a lot of work but you have to spend some time now to save some time later. If I was close by I would come scalp it down just for the fun of doing it. I love cutting thick grass.
I have a old craftsman with a kabota on it with double belts on the deck. Lots of fun

(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))

Carscw said:

Go to a auto parts store but two cheap belts a half inch shorter. If he can bag then bag. The cut clippings are harder to recut than the grass it self. Or make a row of clippings and pick them up. U know its going to take a whole day but do it three times if you have to. Get it down under a inch with all the clippings gone. I know it's a lot of work but you have to spend some time now to save some time later. If I was close by I would come scalp it down just for the fun of doing it. I love cutting thick grass.
I have a old craftsman with a kabota on it with double belts on the deck. Lots of fun

(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))

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Also maybe hire a mow crew to do it weekly if time is in issuse

I'm thinking if its sooo thick, you would think it would start to choke its self out.
I wondering if a lot of weeds would be a good thing as to choke out the grass. After that get rid of the weeds. There's also a product that "locks" the grass from growing after mowing it. I would consitrate on starving the root system. Good luck

I forgot to add that in my opinion core cultivating it would PROMOTE a better root system. That's the opposite of what you are trying to achive.

Mowing it really short will stress the root system *** others said. You gotta tackle the root system!!! Haha

AmericanTurf said:

I'm thinking if its sooo thick, you would think it would start to choke its self out.

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You'd think so. I do notice that the bottom inch or two of the blades is white/yellow. I don't know if that's normal, or if it's part of the root that would normally be below ground level, or if it's some other malnutrition effect of the overcrowding. In any case, you wouldn't think it's a healthy condition - but it continues to grow - maybe stored fertilizer left over from the OCD over-seeder?

I wondering if a lot of weeds would be a good thing as to choke out the grass. After that get rid of the weeds.

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That's scary to think about. I'd be afraid you'd have to spend the next 5 years trying to get rid of the weeds. Do I go into Lowes and ask if they have any weed seeds for my lawn? :wink:

There's aso a product that "locks" the grass from growing after mowing it. I would consitrate on starving the root system. Good luck

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Do you know the name of such a product, and where to get it - specialty landscape product, or Lowes?

I'm thinking the aeration should be the main point of attack.

Thanks everyone for the advice and info.

AmericanTurf said:

I forgot to add that in my opinion core cultivating it would PROMOTE a better root system. That's the opposite of what you are trying to achive.

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Yes but it will achieve a couple of other things first temporary thinning of grass. Also if it is as thick as he says it is it will also rip some roots out as well after words lack of care will be how you fix. Lack of water and lack of fertilizer

There are a couple things that have not been talked about, what kind of gras does he have? Some types of Grass are much Harder to Cut than some others, Next thing is if the Grass is hard to cut, Sharp Blades will be a Must, i have never seen grass to thick to Cut, it needs to be cut on a timely Bases, I dont know what size mower he has, i see its a cub cudet of some type, if he is a busy man, he either needs to hire it cut every 7 days or he need to get him self a Mower that he can get it cut in 30 min. or Less, and with the right machine that is very possible,

There is one thing for surem he has some Very good Soil, He may have to cut every 5 days, there is a grass in my are know as
Bahia Grass, it is used as a Hay or Pasture Grass, but it has found its way into some Yards, it is one more tuff grass to cut, seed heads pop up in just a couple days after you mow it

Good questions, LakeRat1. I didn't check the blades, but he says he has it sharpened at the beginning of each mowing season - maybe it needs sharpening more often, but the problem is there right after it is sharpened. But your point is well taken - do everything we can to minimize the problem.

I did ask him and he said that this is a mulching mower - which could definitely compound the problem. I asked if there was another type of blade that could be put on it, but he said they list only the one type for it. I have a feeling that a little research would turn up a blade of the right size and fit that is't a mulching blade. I also realize that part of what makes a mower a mulching mower is the design of the mower housing - which of course there's probably nothing that could be done short of getting a different mower.

He does have the side chute on, which would make it less of a mulching effect. I'm tempted to put my mower in the F-150 this weekend and just see how it handles it as a comparison.

Here is the mower he has (pretty sure - no other models of Cub Cadets on the net look anything like this model). I know his is 33", and 10.5 HP:


The idea to do whatever we can to damage the root system of the grass is a good one - that will help figure out additional things we can do. As far as not fertilizing, I didn't ask him, but, given the problem, I'm pretty sure he is not fertilizing (will ask).

And I don't know what type of grass it is.

Peva I didnt think about it being a Mulching Mower, That is on of the biggest Power Robbers that ever came along, if i were him i would either cut the grass twice a week or take the mulcher off the unit

Well there we have it a mulching blade is made to keep the grass under the mower.
They do make high lift blades to fit his mower or they call them bagging blades.
If he would change the blades it would be like a new mower.

(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))

OK - great info. Will look into the bagging blade.

Peva, I dont know what all is under that mower to make it a Mulchering mower, but what ever it is i would remove it, My big mower with the 60 in deck, had a number of things that would hold the grass under the deck, it would chock up when ever it got to any heavy grass, I raise it up and removed all that mess, Mulching is for people that are going to kept the grass cut very often, or their land so so poor that the grass don't grow, after removing all the mulching stiff my mower throws the grass 10 ft away from it, I really think your problem it the Mulching Kit & Maybe the Baldes not being sharp, Good luck


LakeRat

Set the grass on fire.

Thanks for all of the good comments guys. As my father-in-law stated, I have just under an acre of grass that is seriously over fertilized. I cut it every 5-7 days, or if I am too busy with work or school, I hire a guy to cut it for me. He has a 60" Scag and he said he has never seen grass as thick as mine. I have tried everything. I have cut it on the highest setting, then raked the clippings and cut it shorter, but when I cut it shorter, it turned brown on me. It is always better to cut your grass high so the blades will protect the roots from being over exposed to sunlight. Even on the highest setting, my mower chokes and wears out the belt. I think the mulching blades are a big part of the problem as well, but when I bought new blades last year along with my new belt that I buy every year, they said that they do not make regular blades for this mower. I find that hard to believe and was planning to see if I can find them from a different retailer. If not, I may just find a grinder and make some straight blades myself that will fit the mower. I never use the mulcher plug that came with this mower, I have even tried lifting the grass chute a little bit with a bungee so that it has more room to throw the grass out. A lot of times, when I am mowing in the direction that the chute is throwing the grass towards the uncut grass, it doesn't even clear the deck very well.

I think the idea of a smaller belt is a good idea too. I contacted Cub Cadet and they said it should not need to be replaced every year, but that didn't help me much. I noticed that when the mower begins to choke, I can put a little more tension on the blade engage cable which is what pulls the middle fly wheel out to engage the blades, and the engine will kick up higher and the blades will cut better. I first did this as a test when I noticed the belt slipping and it did seem to help. It's a shame that there is no adjustment to that fly wheel, or that the engine would not just shut off instead of burning a spot in the belt, but that's just what happens. In my opinion, a lot of the reason the nice mowers like the exmark and scag work better is because of the distance in which they throw the clippings away from the deck. I will contact another retailer and see if I can't find a set of straight blades to replace my current mulching blades with and let you guys know. If I cannot find a smaller belt, I may make some modifications to the blade engage cable so that it can put a little more tension on the belt and maybe decrease the chance that it will start slipping.

Any more though or comments are greatly appreciated!!

VTDano

Danny - I misunderstood - I thought you said the previous owner (2 owners ago) kept over-seeding it. I guess it doesn't matter why it's like it is.

If we can determine the size of the belt, it should be no problem finding one 1/2" shorter of the same cross-section. The mower manufacturers often make it difficult to determine the size - like it's some big secret, but we can measure it, or an aftermarket manufacturer may cross to it and state the actual size. I'm thinking too that the aftermarket world has a blade that will fit the Cub Cadet - perhaps in the Gator Blade brand - they're good, high lift blades.

I'm also thinking that these guys here are of the opinion that you should do what you can to intentionally damage the roots - like cut it too short on purpose - to thin it out.