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I am just wondering how to paint a mower so it looks like new again. I was hopping someone here might now what tools and supplies I need and what the process is. Thanks everyone!

A good paint job is about 75% prep work ... cleaning sanding and dissembling... all the hardware must be removed so it will not have the dipped in paint look...
If you want it looking right it will take a lot of preparation... And replacement decals... Good luck, :smile:KennyV

Can I use an electric sander or would I have to hand sand the mower. Is there a special grade of sanding paper that you use on a lawnmower? Are there any special techniques?

Agree - prep is the key to a quality repair. I suggest spending some time in your local library. There are plenty of text books that provide the 'How-to' of body repair and painting. I suggest finding a scrap piece of metal to practice your newly learned skill prior to spending hours on your project to finish and be less then satisfied with your product. I learned to prep & paint that way. I spent a few hours on practice panels (junk yard fenders) before I was comfortable enough to prep, paint and finish my project. With practice you'll find the 'right' grade of sandpaper that leaves the minimal amount of scratches. I did find one trick - use self ecthing primer. It's bit more expensive but a lot more forgiving, fills in sanding scratches, provides good adhesion to both the meatal and the final coat of paint.

Best advice is start your research at the library. You may also want to check out Adult Education classes at your local Technical School. Good Luck......

You can also find some good veido's on you tube, if your decals are in good shape coat them with vasoline before painting.
Mike

Don't know how the pros do it but I use a wire wheel on a drill to get most of the paint and rust off. russ

It doesn't matter if you hand sand or use a machine. Prep work is dirty. First and formost. Degrease and degrease, and degrease as you take a part for prep work. The finer the sand paper the better the finish. 600 grit leaves a nice finish, with a good bite to the surface. Wire wheels are great on rust. Here are some pictures of a 2000, John Deere F-620 Z Trak that I repaired and painted two seasons ago. I used PPG Acrylic Enamle with a urathane hardner. The primers were epoxy primer both as a base primer and reduced as a sealer. The SMC plastic body was repaired and that needed a thicker filler primer also.

How new do you want it to look? I mean for complete restoration, I would completely dissemble it, bead or soda blast it and powdercoat or primer/paint it, and chrome the rims for fun.

On the cheap though, I would use a combo of a grinder with wire wheel, sanding and solvent prep then rattle can it.

nuffer460 said:

It doesn't matter if you hand sand or use a machine. Prep work is dirty. First and formost. Degrease and degrease, and degrease as you take a part for prep work. The finer the sand paper the better the finish. 600 grit leaves a nice finish, with a good bite to the surface. Wire wheels are great on rust. Here are some pictures of a 2000, John Deere F-620 Z Trak that I repaired and painted two seasons ago. I used PPG Acrylic Enamle with a urathane hardner. The primers were epoxy primer both as a base primer and reduced as a sealer. The SMC plastic body was repaired and that needed a thicker filler primer also.

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Hi Nuffer! How long did it take you to degrease, sand and paint your machine? Just wondering. I imagine it takes some real time and effort that may have affected your other activities.

I just finished the complete refurbish of a 9 year old Scag 61" Turf Tiger
It had 3000 hours n it and was very used and abused. Today it looks better than new.
I completely disassembled it. Cut out and replaced over 200lbs of bent and twisted steel.
I also added a very heavy duty roll bar since the model I have was not equipped with one.
The new steel was carefully TIG welded using over 20 pounds of TIG welding rod.
And almost 4 bottles of Argon gas.
The frame was cracked in 5 places, those were welded and properly reinforced.
After the welding was completed, I had every piece of metal sand blasted or replated..
When I got all of the pieces back from the blasting operation, I washed all of the parts with phosphoric acid to be sure that all rust spores had been killed.
I used two coats of KBS Rust Seal urethane enamel as a primer to completely seal every surface. I have used it on several other projects during the past 10 years and have been very satisfied. It is self leveling, as a result it was not necessary to sand anything. The KBS simply leveled out all of the sand blasting surface imperfections and provided a wonderful surface for top coating. Following that and within the appropriate recoat window, every thing received two full wet coats of PPG Concept Single Stage Urethane, of the appropriate orange color. All bolts were replaced with grade 8 Yellow Zinc coated Bolts. All new decals were installed. All bearings and seals were replaced. And many of the connectors were replaced with spherical bearing rod ends. It's like a new machine, I love it

Pete Lord said:

I just finished the complete refurbish of a 9 year old Scag 61" Turf Tiger...


... It's like a new machine, I love it

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Pete Lord
Sounds perfect, did you consider powder coat instead of paint?

How about posting some pictures...?
& Welcome to the forum... :smile:KennyV

Why paint it......just sell it......get a new one...........lol:biggrin:

Lots of sandpaper to sand off any rust spots, being careful not to go all the way down to the body work, unless you want to do that. Then buy some automotive paint and paint like you were painting your house, in my case, most of the paint ends up on myself or on the floor

KennyV said:

Pete Lord
Sounds perfect, did you consider powder coat instead of paint?

How about posting some pictures...?
& Welcome to the forum... :smile:KennyV

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Hi Kenny,
I am also retired, in my case after 40 years with the same company

Power Coating is a great suggestion and I did consider it.
1 Power Coating is not necessarily air tight as it is platelets that are melted to each other and there is the possibility of voids that will allow the start of oxidation.
2 Think about the total surface area of all painted parts on a 61" Scag Turf Tiger. The quote I got from the local power coater was "I can't handle anything that large or that heavy"
3 The KBS if applied right will be so hard and air tight that it can't be scratched with a screwdriver once cured.

There are a couple cons,
1 The second coat and the top coat must be applied between 2 hours and 4 hours of each other for the desired cross linking to occur.
2 It's catalyzed by absorbing moisture out of the air, so once the can is open, saving any for more than a week or two is impossible.
3 It's very similar to Gorilla Glue except it doesn't foam and expand while curing.
4 The spray gun must be thoroughly cleaned between coats, other wise you will throw it away. There is no solvent for the cured material.
5 The cured paint is not UV stable, it will chalk and bleach in the sun if not top coated with an opaque finish, although, that doesn稚 appear to hurt it's rust sealing performance.

It's not expensive as far as urethane primers and finishes are concerned.
Check it out on their WEB page. Stop Rust - Gas Tank Sealer - Gas Tank Liner - KBS Coatings - RustSeal in Colors

I have no affiliation except as a very satisfied customer.

I'll take some pictures as soon as I get the new tires on it. The old ones were a disaster waiting to happen as I have steep grassy hills that end in creaks on three sides of my property.

Regards
Pete

Pete Lord said:

I'll take some pictures as soon as I get the new tires on it. The old ones were a disaster waiting to happen as I have steep grassy hills that end in creaks on three sides of my property.

Regards
Pete

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I hope you have before and after pictures. Sounds like a big project. What did you do about the motor?

RobertBrown said:

I hope you have before and after pictures. Sounds like a big project. What did you do about the motor?

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Hi Robert,

Several years I had a business where I owned and operated 6 Tune UP Shops and a related business building engines for professional circle track race cars. So working on the engine was very easy as I have all the tools to measure the dimensions of every part with great precision and make corrections when necessary..
The engine was completely freshened-up by disassembling and cleaning every thing, measuring, then reassembly. I didn't find anything that needed immediate replacement, although I did re-hone the cylinders and replace the piston rings. It had cast iron cylinder liners not the nickel alloy problematic liners, thank you God. Even Mercedes Benz and Jaguar had problems with those things.. I also replaced all of the seals and gaskets.

I am currently running Motul 300 V oil. It is made from vegetable esters and acts as a very powerful solvent to clean any of the bits of varnish I missed. Don't confuse high detergency with acting like a solvent. The detergent in modern oils is there to keep any by-products of combustion in suspension so that the filter can remove them from the system. It's purpose is to keep the engine clean not to clean up after it's curded up.

Oils based on esters have one downfall, they are a bit hydroscopic (i.e., absorbs water out of the air) As long as the engine is run at least once a week and for a long enough period to get the oil hot enough to vaporize any water that had been absorbed.
My experience has been that esters based oils will help to heal much of the havoc caused by a very irresponsible maintenance program and the use of group III mineral oil. I致e used Red Line for years, it is also an ester based oil. Recently Motul came out with a new formula based on the combination of two different types of esters. They claim great improvements. So this fall I switched all of my vehicles over to it and will monitor the performance closely.

Motul was founded by J.D. Rockefeller in 1853 and marketed their lubricants through Standard oil. They started exporting lubricants in 1932 and they actually marketed a synthetic oil in 1953. In 1957 Supra Penn bought all of the Motul patents and renamed the company Motul. In 1971 Motul marketed the first 100% synthetic oil, and today does business in 80 different countries. They are head quartered in France today.

They are the pioneers and risk takers of the synthetic lubrication business and they continue to be the innovators that every one else is chasing. But be careful they have 20 to 30 different formulas for engine oil and some are plane old Group III mineral oils with lots of paraffin and VII痴 just like every one else. So read the specifications and look for the statement that the oil is made from Esters or Group V base stocks.

Wow how did I get off on that track, sorry
Pete

I had never given painting a serious thought as such but reading this thread got me enlightened though I still think it is so much hassle painting a mower.

Pete Lord said:

Hi Robert,

Wow how did I get off on that track, sorry
Pete

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Don't apologize Pete, thanks! Thats why I read these forums, to learn...and hopefully to help someone else.
I'm a liitle smarter now, when it comes to lubricants anyway. I still don't know the difference between napthenic and ester based oils but I know who to ask if I need to get that info. Heck I can never remember what the w is for:laughing:.
When I paint a mower, I reach for the "Krylon", but only if it's on sale

touree said:

I had never given painting a serious thought as such but reading this thread got me enlightened though I still think it is so much hassle painting a mower.

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Hi Touree,
You are correct it is a hassle. I bought the wrecked SCAG for $500 thinking that I could fix it up with out too much trouble. At the time I had no intension of painting it or for that matter rebuilding the whole thing.

Six years ago when I bought it, the first thing I did was to disassemble the mower to evaluate how many things really needed to be fixed. I was so discouraged that I piled the pieces in the back corner of one of my garages and forgot about it for 6 years. I had a 421cu/in 750HP RX7 Drag Race car to complete and that was going to require all of my attention. Having completed that project and figuring out that a 74 year old shouldn't be driving a 200MPH car I sold it and needed a project so I turned my attention to the SCAG. Early this summer the adventure began,.

Interestingly, it was a real adventure as I had forgotten everything I learned by taking it apart and it became a challenge to figure out how it should be reassembled. Many things were changed, for example, the hydraulic system is a bad design, one should never require a pump to suck oil through a filter, and if the integrity of the pumps and motors were to be preserved, the return lines from the pumps needed to be filtered before the oil went into the reservoir. Also the roll bar got in the way of the tubular control links to the pumps so I had to gin up some flexible push-pull control cables like is used to shift automatic transmissions, to handle that choir. Both wheel motors were trashed and required rebuilding as well as the pumps. The parts cost to do those jobs was out of this world so I make and heat treat several of them. For example, the valve bodies / surface plates that the pump cylinders ride on required resurfacing and for the first time I got to use my surfacer to flatten them out. And in the end they were flat within .0002 inches. . For the first time in over 20 years, all of the machines in my shop had to be used and it became a real adventure.

So to your question about painting. After investing so many hours in the rebuild it didn't feel right not to give it a first class paint job. PPG's Deltron Concept Acrylic Urathane paint is a first class paint that will out perform most base coat / clear coat systems. To be honest, the only reason any one should use a base coat /clear coat system is if the paint has metalic flakes. And SCAG Orange is definitely not a metallic.

Regards
Pete

RobertBrown said:

Don't apologize Pete, thanks! Thats why I read these forums, to learn...and hopefully to help someone else.
I'm a liitle smarter now, when it comes to lubricants anyway. I still don't know the difference between napthenic and ester based oils but I know who to ask if I need to get that info. Heck I can never remember what the w is for:laughing:.
When I paint a mower, I reach for the "Krylon", but only if it's on sale

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Hi Robert,

If I remember correctly, the "W" stands for Winter. I never understood that - as if the engine doesn't reach normal operating temp in the winter, absurd!! In addition, real synthetics pour and pump so much easier than mineral oils, I used 20W 50 year round for several years. There was one year when it went below minus 10 F every night for two weeks. And my cars were out side year round at that time.
Only my diesel Cadillac wouldn't start, but it didn't have the right batteries.
With the viscosity index痴 getting close to 200 is there still a need for the multiviscosity rating. Why not forget the VII痴 and simply publish the Viscosity Index instead?

As far as I know Krylon is the largest manufacture of spray can paint in the world, I think it's pretty good stuff myself. Although Rust-Oleum has some new stuff that sprays very nicely with tiny droplets and appears to self level, providing a really nice glossy finish very easily.

Nephthenic oils.
The fact that you can spell it is proof enough to me that you are very knowledgeable of the subject, and it is I that am the student. My only carnal knowledge of the subject is it is used in the manufacture of napalm. Like oil based on esters it's a good solvent, free of wax, and flows at very low temperatures. Sounds like my kind of oil. The nasty characteristic is that it has a high TAN or Total Acid Number which would require the additive package to include a mechanism to neutralize the acid. Eventually those kinds of additives ware out or oxidize severely reducing the appropriate change interval.

But you obviously know a lot more than I, is there an industrial oil application the uses them as lubricants? I know there are a whole slew of companies making industrial lubricants that use synthetic and mineral oil stocks that we never hear about being used for engine lubricants.

By the way, thinking about lubricants usages.
Can you explain why SCAG recommends that owners use multiviscosity 20W 50 engine oil in their hydraulic system. I had always thought that without combustion by-products to worry about, hydraulic fluid could focus on the issues associated with that environment and ignore much of the additives used in engine oils.

Regards
Pete

Pete,sounds like you made youself one nice mower.did I miss it on what engine is in it?Also curious as how you did under the deck.I applied the recommened 2 coats of E-Zlide to the under deck of my Grasshopper right after I bought it this spring,even did the blades as suggested on the can.The blades were new and I checked them after the first mow and the graphite seemed to have wore off.I pulled the deck the other day and it appears the graphite is still on it but to what extant it helped is hard to tell.I do plan to clean and reaply the E-Zlide to the deck.I bought 2 Qts. of it at T.S.C. this spring and found that it goes a long way.I could do a whole swarm of grasshoppers with 2 qts. russ

173abn said:

Pete,sounds like you made youself one nice mower.did I miss it on what engine is in it?Also curious as how you did under the deck.I applied the recommened 2 coats of E-Zlide to the under deck of my Grasshopper right after I bought it this spring,even did the blades as suggested on the can.The blades were new and I checked them after the first mow and the graphite seemed to have wore off.I pulled the deck the other day and it appears the graphite is still on it but to what extant it helped is hard to tell.I do plan to clean and reaply the E-Zlide to the deck.I bought 2 Qts. of it at T.S.C. this spring and found that it goes a long way.I could do a whole swarm of grasshoppers with 2 qts. russ

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Hi Russ,

The engine is a Kohler CH-25 Not a terrible engine I was very surprised to find things like roller lifters.

I wish it had about 50% more HP. The displacement 750cc is ok, but more torque would be nice. A friend has a turbo charger that came on a motorcycle that he wrecked a few years ago, it could easily add an additional 10 HP.

The deck was really trashed and required about 30% of it's steel to be replaced, while I was fixing it I reinforced all of the week areas and made it so water and moisture could not be trapped. All of the irregularities on the under side were smoothed out with Kevlar reinforced epoxy that was applied to the freshly sand blasted and acid treated steel. Then I gave it three full wet coats with KBS Rust seal. They turned out very glossy and should stay that way without top coating due to the lack of UV from the sun.

I used that stuff on a 150yr old cement mixer 6 years ago. After mixing almost 200 - 80lb bags of concrete in the thing, the paint is still perfect, although it has chalked some (I didn稚 top coat it) in addition, it has not even worn off the ring and pinion that turn the barrel.

As usual, time will tell. The reason I am so paranoid about rust, is the mower will be parked out side under my deck with little more than the protection of a good tarp.
I'm 74 and figure that if I'm lucky I will need the mower to last no more that 10 years.

Since I quit drag racing a 9 second car last year, I guess I'm looking for an "E" ticket lawn mower to keep my adrenalin flowing. Possibly, I should be looking for a 1000 cc motorcycle engine. Ha ha.

I have not heard of E-Zlide, sounds interesting, I知 going to look into it today.
Thanks Russ

Pete

Pete,just google it ,for some reason they don't sell it online but will tell you the nearest store to buy it. also were do you get that KBS rust seal? russ

173abn said:

Pete,just google it ,for some reason they don't sell it online but will tell you the nearest store to buy it. also were do you get that KBS rust seal? russ

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Hi Russ,

The local auto paint store sells it but they won't order anything if what I want is not in stock Usually I order it on line from Stop Rust - Gas Tank Sealer - Gas Tank Liner - KBS Coatings - RustSeal in Colors
As I recall they have a flat rate shipping cost that is very reasonable.
Their Rust Seal covers very well and I always order more than I use.

Be very careful to not put it on too heavy as a skin will form on the surface and the CO2 gas that is released during curing will not be able to escape and you will get blisters

It痴 best to put on two coats to make sure that any tiny CO2 holes are filled in by the second coat.

The second coat or any top coat must be installed after the previous coat has become non sticky (usually 2 hours) but before four hours as after four hours the layers will not crosslink and there is a good chance that they will separate over time.

It doesn't keep very well once you open the can,
Every once in awhile, if I put a layer of thin plastic like saran-wrap into the can and allow it to droop down and touch the paint it will keep for several months.

Also I found if I put about 1/4 inch of their #1 thinner into the can of paint and carefully put it on the shelf, the thinner will prevent air from getting to the urethane and cause it to cure.

Thanks for the information
Pete

My Craftsman is 13 years old and refuses to die. It looks its age, but sure doesn't act its age (kind of like me....!) Since it looks like it's been through a war, I have considered a do it yourself camo paint job just for kicks.

Mean Machine said:

My Craftsman is 13 years old and refuses to die. It looks its age, but sure doesn't act its age (kind of like me....!) Since it looks like it's been through a war, I have considered a do it yourself camo paint job just for kicks.

Click to expand...

Mean Machine.
If you have a way to get the painted pieces sand blasted and you have access to a compressor I would treat the metal with phosphoric acid, let it soak very wet for an hour at 70 to 80 degrees, then wash it off with water and dry the water as quickly as possible. You can get at Home Depot. Prime everything with 2 to 3 coats of KBS Rust Seal 2 hours apart. You can get on line at kbscoatings.com. Then top coat with any good quality catalyzed urethane paint. As long as you apply the top coat within a window of 2 to 4 hours the KBS and the top coat will cross link and become one. The KBS is almost bullet proof and you will not see any rust again.

Second best if no sand blasting or compressor are available.
I would sand most of the rust off, and roughen up all the sound paint, with some very aggressive paper like 80 grit. Then treat all of the metal with phosphoric acid, Wash it off thoroughly after an hour of soaking very wet at 70 to 80 degrees. Then brush on two or three thin coats of KBS - 2 hours apart. - it self levels and will come out smooth enough. Then within 2 to 4 hours top coat with some of that new Rust-Oleum with the pistol grip shaped tops, they are capable of spraying paint almost as good as a cheap spray gun. And the paint is pretty tough. But all it needs to do is look good, as the metal is protected by the KBS. I use them when ever I don稚 want to go through the, clean the spray gun routine, and have found the paint, if allowed to cure for a few days, to be the best rattle can paint I致e come across. But nothing comes close to KBS as a primer.
Good luck
Pete

adan and everyone else, sorry to be so long getting back here. Business took me away.

adan, to answer your question.
The whole project took about three weeks. The only unit that didn't need paint was the main power unit and pto. The wheels took two days and were the easiest.
The main body was the real trick. It was broken in five different areas. John Deere had the body made from a form of SMC plastic and fiber strand material. It can't be fiberglased to repair. It took a two part urathane bonding glue and regular fiberglas mating. First time doing this type of repair. Real learning curve. Painting the body required a bonding agent before priming and painting. It took about a week.
The big job was taking the mowing deck and mounts a part and then reassembling after painting. Most of the parts just needed DA sanding, and use of a scuff pad. The under side of the deck was sand blasted. The top side of the deck was DA, hand, and scuf pad sanded. In between sanding I used allot of Wax and Grease remover. The really hard part, was hanging all the parts from the garage ceiling. I used two long ladders secured to the ceiling joists. then hung all the parts from the ladder rungs. Securing the ladders to joists was really important. Some of the deck mounting brackets are very heavy!! Then it was just priming and painting. This took about a week and a half.
The whole thing assembled and new decals really was only three weeks. This time is all after dinner work. It took about 40 hours total.
Hope this helps

Pete Lord said:

Hi Russ,

The engine is a Kohler CH-25 Not a terrible engine I was very surprised to find things like roller lifters.

I wish it had about 50% more HP. The displacement 750cc is ok, but more torque would be nice. A friend has a turbo charger that came on a motorcycle that he wrecked a few years ago, it could easily add an additional 10 HP.

The deck was really trashed and required about 30% of it's steel to be replaced, while I was fixing it I reinforced all of the week areas and made it so water and moisture could not be trapped. All of the irregularities on the under side were smoothed out with Kevlar reinforced epoxy that was applied to the freshly sand blasted and acid treated steel. Then I gave it three full wet coats with KBS Rust seal. They turned out very glossy and should stay that way without top coating due to the lack of UV from the sun.

I used that stuff on a 150yr old cement mixer 6 years ago. After mixing almost 200 - 80lb bags of concrete in the thing, the paint is still perfect, although it has chalked some (I didn稚 top coat it) in addition, it has not even worn off the ring and pinion that turn the barrel.

As usual, time will tell. The reason I am so paranoid about rust, is the mower will be parked out side under my deck with little more than the protection of a good tarp.
I'm 74 and figure that if I'm lucky I will need the mower to last no more that 10 years.

Since I quit drag racing a 9 second car last year, I guess I'm looking for an "E" ticket lawn mower to keep my adrenalin flowing. Possibly, I should be looking for a 1000 cc motorcycle engine. Ha ha.

I have not heard of E-Zlide, sounds interesting, I知 going to look into it today.
Thanks Russ

Pete

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make a race mower and swap around the pulleys . it will keep your heart in your throat a little

I have repainteed mowers many times and it looks brill you can either hunt down the original paint coulour which is what im doing for my next repaint. But this envolves a lot more work as you have to get the metal to the original state and then prime it. there is also a lot more money involved as you have to have the paint coulour computer analised etc.:smile: