How Much Ethanol is Too Much?

[robert@honda]

Hard to find fuel with no ethanol in most places, and most of you know the problems with it in small gas engines, especially if left in the tank for a while. Honda has a new tool to help when troubleshooting possible stale fuel issues, a Fuel/Alcohol tester. Most engines will be fine with 10% or less ethanol, and this tool will give a good indicator of how much is actually in your tank:

Add a bit of water to the tube, then fill with the sample gasoline. Shake it up, wait a few minutes, and read the percentage of ethanol (alcohol) direct. Gasoline floats on top of water, and when shaken, the ethanol binds with the water and sinks to the bottom of the tube:

Honda part number 07AAJ-E85A100. Google the part number to find a dealer selling online, or find your local dealer with this link:

Find a Honda Dealer

 

[tybilly]

thanks Robert,will this work with 2 cycle fuel?.and is there one of these for 2cycle over mix or undermix?

 

[robert@honda]

thanks Robert,will this work with 2 cycle fuel?.and is there one of these for 2cycle over mix or undermix?

This tool is valid for for testing straight unleaded gasoline only.

I think for testing 2-stroke fuel, you are more concerned about if it has the correct gasolineil ratio (anywhere from 16:1 to 60:1, depending on the application), so it is apple vs. oranges. Here's a kit I found for 2-stroke (oil presence) testing:

[url]http://www.2-stroketest.com/kits.html[/URL]

 

[Mike88se]

To answer your question... any ethanol is too much IMHO.
Not to turn this into a political thing but why is it used at all? Same reason there is corn sweetener in my cokes.
Collusion between govt and big agribusiness/corporate farms.

 

[enigma-2]

Hard to find fuel with no ethanol in most places, and most of you know the problems with it in small gas engines, especially if left in the tank for a while. Honda has a new tool to help when troubleshooting possible stale fuel issues, a Fuel/Alcohol tester. Most engines will be fine with 10% or less ethanol, and this tool will give a good indicator of how much is actually in your tank:

There are many different types on the market, some start as low as $10. The Honda version is well built and easy to use, but for $35+ is a little pricey.

You can do the same thing with just an inexpensive 100 ml graduated cylinder. (You can buy plastic ones for under $2 on Ebay,

Pour in 90 ml of gasoline, the add 10 ml of water (brings it up to 100 ml total). Now put your thumb over the top and shake hard. When you shake it up, the ethanol will bind with the water and will sink to the bottom of the tube. Let it sit for 10 to 15 minutes to settle out.

Now read the line where it separated. Take that reading and subtract 10 (we started with 10 ml - or 10%) water and the result is the percentage of alcohol in the fuel.
Example. After settling, the separation is at 26 ml. 26 ml - 10 ml (we started with 10 ml of water) = 16 ml, or 16 % alcohol.

The danger is alcohol (from Ethanol) & water tends to accumulate in the bottom of your gas can as you use it. Too much will destroy a small engine. Personally I feel it best to use StaBol Ethanol or Marine when filling at the pump. (I also use a little SeaFoam).

 

[Two-Stroke]

This is a very informative thread. :thumbsup:

I'm glad that there's a relatively simple way to test for the ethanol percentage.

I usually don't have much problem with ethanol since it's limited to no more than 10% here in Georgia. But I wish I could easily buy gasoline without any ethanol.

 

[Graeden]

To answer your question... any ethanol is too much IMHO.
Not to turn this into a political thing but why is it used at all? Same reason there is corn sweetener in my cokes.
Collusion between govt and big agribusiness/corporate farms.

Ethanol is used in gasoline to cut down on the NOX/CO2 emissions of burning fuel.

 

[enigma-2]

This is a very informative thread. :thumbsup:

I'm glad that there's a relatively simple way to test for the ethanol percentage.

I usually don't have much problem with ethanol since it's limited to no more than 10% here in Georgia. But I wish I could easily buy gasoline without any ethanol.

I read where it's not the percentage of Ethanol that comes from the pump, but the percentage that in the bottom of the gas can. As you use gasoline, the Ethanol and water separate out (sinks to the bottom. As gas is used up, the percentage of free Ethanol and water goes up in relation to the amount of gas left.

You may have started out with 10% Ethanol, but when the can's nearly empty, the amount could be 20% (perhaps an exaggeration, but it will be more than 10%).

What I just found out (Marathon, around here at least) is that the mid-grade (89%) and plus grade (91%) do NOT have Ethanol. (Just the 87 octane has it).

Check out where you buy gas and see if the mid-grade has the Ethanol sticker.

 

[Two-Stroke]

I read where it's not the percentage of Ethanol that comes from the pump, but the percentage that in the bottom of the gas can. As you use gasoline, the Ethanol and water separate out (sinks to the bottom. As gas is used up, the percentage of free Ethanol and water goes up in relation to the amount of gas left.

You may have started out with 10% Ethanol, but when the can's nearly empty, the amount could be 20% (perhaps an exaggeration, but it will be more than 10%).

What I just found out (Marathon, around here at least) is that the mid-grade (89%) and plus grade (91%) do NOT have Ethanol. (Just the 87 octane has it).

Check out where you buy gas and see if the mid-grade has the Ethanol sticker.

That's interesting... it makes me wonder if shaking the gas can (which I do regularly) will help prevent this accumulation.

In my area it seems that all the pumps - and all grades -- are labeled "up to 10% ethanol". There are places where you can get non-ethanol gas but none close to me.

 

[Graeden]

I read where it's not the percentage of Ethanol that comes from the pump, but the percentage that in the bottom of the gas can. As you use gasoline, the Ethanol and water separate out (sinks to the bottom. As gas is used up, the percentage of free Ethanol and water goes up in relation to the amount of gas left.

You may have started out with 10% Ethanol, but when the can's nearly empty, the amount could be 20% (perhaps an exaggeration, but it will be more than 10%).

What I just found out (Marathon, around here at least) is that the mid-grade (89%) and plus grade (91%) do NOT have Ethanol. (Just the 87 octane has it).

Check out where you buy gas and see if the mid-grade has the Ethanol sticker.

How do you figure that the amount of ethanol goes up? If it has 10% to begin with you will still have 10% (or actually LESS as it evaporates) of ethanol mixed in the fuel. Even if it absorbs the water (which would actually dilute the ethanol/gasoline mixture) you still will only have 10% ethanol. Please explain your theory to me? Because if that is the case, then I am going to start pouring my beer in gallon containers and watch the alcohol content go up! :thumbsup:

I have yet to find any station that doesn't contain ethanol (except one time at a farmers station in Kansas) and I know Marathon adds it to all their fuels. Here in Michigan, we have stations called Speedway and they are owned/operated by the Marathon Oil company along with a refinery in Detroit. I spoke with one of their drivers sometime back and he stated that ethanol is in all of Marathon fuels. So maybe you have a station that only receives 87 from Marathon and their 89/91+ from another distributor? That might be interesting to establish. Anyways, ethanol is a cheap way to increase profits. That is the second reason ethanol is in fuel. Ethanol is more easily produced then gasoline therefore by diluting gasoline decreases expenses of production and increases bottom line. Simple economics.

Interesting article here: Gasoline Expiration - Ethanol Blend Fuels Have a Short Shelf Life