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How many hours do machines really last?
#1
H
Hexa Fox
H
Hexa Fox
Hey guys, so I know there is a lot of argument on this topic and I know there are factors that can vary this greatly. Having this in mind, I would like to get some numbers on how long commercial equipment lasts. For instance, right now I have a Ferris with a 26HP Vangaurd and Hydro Gear 4400 Transaxles. I am looking at a Simplicity (made by Ferris and Briggs) that is a step down from this machine. It has a 27HP Briggs and Stratton with Hydro Gear 3400 Transaxles. I am interested in this machine because a lot of the parts including blades are interchangeable between the two. This machine is just clearly a step down from the Vanguard Ferris setup I have. So I would love to hear your guys feedback on these machines too.
However, what I really want to know is how many hours do these machines realistically see? I have seen some people say they start wearing out around 1,000 and others say they can go for thousands if taken care of properly. The advice I was given is after the machine is old and tired and either the engine or transaxles give out to start looking for a new machine. I think that is probably good advice.
I wanted this to be a general discussion. Trying to figure out how long they last and if anyone knows about these 'generic sticker' Briggs engines. When I bought my Ferris I was sold on a Vanguard because of their reliability over other engines. It does run great. Anyway I do not think me and this guy are going to be able to come to an agreement because he is way too high on price. He is asking $8,000 for it and the machine is basically brand new. I have not had a chance to speak with him yet.
However, what I really want to know is how many hours do these machines realistically see? I have seen some people say they start wearing out around 1,000 and others say they can go for thousands if taken care of properly. The advice I was given is after the machine is old and tired and either the engine or transaxles give out to start looking for a new machine. I think that is probably good advice.
I wanted this to be a general discussion. Trying to figure out how long they last and if anyone knows about these 'generic sticker' Briggs engines. When I bought my Ferris I was sold on a Vanguard because of their reliability over other engines. It does run great. Anyway I do not think me and this guy are going to be able to come to an agreement because he is way too high on price. He is asking $8,000 for it and the machine is basically brand new. I have not had a chance to speak with him yet.
#2
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Absolutely NO WAY to say even approximately how long they will last. Way, way too many variables to give reliable GUESSES, which anyone who would post numbers would be doing. If you want to rely on someone’s GUESS, that would be up to you.
#4
I
ILENGINE
I
ILENGINE
Or in some cases the internal battery in the hour meter quits causing no display.Hard to say, most people don't even change the oil. Hour meters can be changed out.
#5
H
Hexa Fox
What you are talking about is residential homeowners. That is why manufacturers nowadays are sealing everything up and making it maintenance free. I think the new engines that have a filter prefilled with a quart of oil (or whatever) they are, are pretty moronic. However, if you can convince people to change those out I guess it is better than not doing anything at all. The are 'throw away' machines which I find ridiculous. You pay thousands of dollars for them and use them until they stop working and pretty much toss them or put "free" on them out by the curb. For the record I would never do this. I find it mind boggling that people do.
Anyway what I was sort of looking for here is "Hey I had/have a Ferris with the same setup and I am over 1,500 hours right now". Because people say these machines can easily get thousands of hours but I never see it. If you go look at classifieds for them they rarely have over 1,000 hours and I was wondering if it was because they are still relatively new machines or you are getting close to their failure rate.
H
Hexa Fox
I would say that 95% or more of people in the commercial mowing business change their oil regularly. I know a lot of people in the business and they are anal about it, as am I. I do not put that many hours on my machine anymore but I change the oil at least at the beginning of each season. I also change the transaxles fluid every few years or so too. If I was using it more often I would be doing it more often.Hard to say, most people don't even change the oil. Hour meters can be changed out.
What you are talking about is residential homeowners. That is why manufacturers nowadays are sealing everything up and making it maintenance free. I think the new engines that have a filter prefilled with a quart of oil (or whatever) they are, are pretty moronic. However, if you can convince people to change those out I guess it is better than not doing anything at all. The are 'throw away' machines which I find ridiculous. You pay thousands of dollars for them and use them until they stop working and pretty much toss them or put "free" on them out by the curb. For the record I would never do this. I find it mind boggling that people do.
Anyway what I was sort of looking for here is "Hey I had/have a Ferris with the same setup and I am over 1,500 hours right now". Because people say these machines can easily get thousands of hours but I never see it. If you go look at classifieds for them they rarely have over 1,000 hours and I was wondering if it was because they are still relatively new machines or you are getting close to their failure rate.
#6
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
As per the other comments it is the little things that kill mowers and in particular ZTR's
Eg;- dropping the engine speed low when driving up the ramp into the truck/trailer can wipe 1000 hrs or more from the hydros .
Failing to blow down the hydros every day so they cool eficiently can wipe off hundreds of hours .
Running a worn belt on the drives can wipe a thousand hours off the left drive in under a year of use
Ditto for not keeping the tension arm well lubbed .
Ditto for not changing the hydro oil & filters
Then there is the terrain being mowed
Got a customer who has a Walker used for mowing a cemetry , two hours a day six days a week he had it when I bought this business 11 years ago , I service it twice a year and it shows no signs of wearing out to date .
The mowers he uses to mow street verges with are pretty well worn out in 2 years .
Very few hour meters will run for longer than 4 years or 1500 hrs got a stack of them that have been stuck between 1000 & 2000 hours for years .
Most of my pros do 6 month services and do not give a wrinkled rats rectum about actual hours .
And did I mention keeping blades sharp ?
The customer who swaps them over between each mow gets 3 to 4 years out of a set of spindle bearings.
Same mower with another customer who just runs them till the flutes break off does 2 sets of spindle bearings a year .
Eg;- dropping the engine speed low when driving up the ramp into the truck/trailer can wipe 1000 hrs or more from the hydros .
Failing to blow down the hydros every day so they cool eficiently can wipe off hundreds of hours .
Running a worn belt on the drives can wipe a thousand hours off the left drive in under a year of use
Ditto for not keeping the tension arm well lubbed .
Ditto for not changing the hydro oil & filters
Then there is the terrain being mowed
Got a customer who has a Walker used for mowing a cemetry , two hours a day six days a week he had it when I bought this business 11 years ago , I service it twice a year and it shows no signs of wearing out to date .
The mowers he uses to mow street verges with are pretty well worn out in 2 years .
Very few hour meters will run for longer than 4 years or 1500 hrs got a stack of them that have been stuck between 1000 & 2000 hours for years .
Most of my pros do 6 month services and do not give a wrinkled rats rectum about actual hours .
And did I mention keeping blades sharp ?
The customer who swaps them over between each mow gets 3 to 4 years out of a set of spindle bearings.
Same mower with another customer who just runs them till the flutes break off does 2 sets of spindle bearings a year .
#7
H
Hexa Fox
Yeah it is tough to keep blades sharp where I live. I live near Harpers Ferry and the "yards" we have here are pretty much weeds. I try to pickup any sticks that will take life off the blades but still end up hitting all kinds of twigs and little stuff. It is just inevitable. I do my best to keep my blades sharp and balanced. I try to swap them out at least twice a year.
I have always wanted a Walker mower or a Grasshopper D900 series. I just think they might be (especially the Grasshopper) a little too big for my applications. I have also been looking at a Ventrac 3400Y that is very similar to these machines. The thing that sucks is Hydro Gear discontinued the transaxles that went on the machines and as a result Ventrac decided to discontinue the machines. So getting service and parts are only going to get more difficult as time goes on.
H
Hexa Fox
As per the other comments it is the little things that kill mowers and in particular ZTR's
Eg;- dropping the engine speed low when driving up the ramp into the truck/trailer can wipe 1000 hrs or more from the hydros .
Failing to blow down the hydros every day so they cool eficiently can wipe off hundreds of hours .
Running a worn belt on the drives can wipe a thousand hours off the left drive in under a year of use
Ditto for not keeping the tension arm well lubbed .
Ditto for not changing the hydro oil & filters
Then there is the terrain being mowed
Got a customer who has a Walker used for mowing a cemetry , two hours a day six days a week he had it when I bought this business 11 years ago , I service it twice a year and it shows no signs of wearing out to date .
The mowers he uses to mow street verges with are pretty well worn out in 2 years .
Very few hour meters will run for longer than 4 years or 1500 hrs got a stack of them that have been stuck between 1000 & 2000 hours for years .
Most of my pros do 6 month services and do not give a wrinkled rats rectum about actual hours .
And did I mention keeping blades sharp ?
The customer who swaps them over between each mow gets 3 to 4 years out of a set of spindle bearings.
Same mower with another customer who just runs them till the flutes break off does 2 sets of spindle bearings a year .
Yeah it is tough to keep blades sharp where I live. I live near Harpers Ferry and the "yards" we have here are pretty much weeds. I try to pickup any sticks that will take life off the blades but still end up hitting all kinds of twigs and little stuff. It is just inevitable. I do my best to keep my blades sharp and balanced. I try to swap them out at least twice a year.
I have always wanted a Walker mower or a Grasshopper D900 series. I just think they might be (especially the Grasshopper) a little too big for my applications. I have also been looking at a Ventrac 3400Y that is very similar to these machines. The thing that sucks is Hydro Gear discontinued the transaxles that went on the machines and as a result Ventrac decided to discontinue the machines. So getting service and parts are only going to get more difficult as time goes on.
#8
R
RayMcD
R
RayMcD
Sir, please explain what you mean> blow down the hydros? thanks rYeah it is tough to keep blades sharp where I live. I live near Harpers Ferry and the "yards" we have here are pretty much weeds. I try to pickup any sticks that will take life off the blades but still end up hitting all kinds of twigs and little stuff. It is just inevitable. I do my best to keep my blades sharp and balanced. I try to swap them out at least twice a year.
I have always wanted a Walker mower or a Grasshopper D900 series. I just think they might be (especially the Grasshopper) a little too big for my applications. I have also been looking at a Ventrac 3400Y that is very similar to these machines. The thing that sucks is Hydro Gear discontinued the transaxles that went on the machines and as a result Ventrac decided to discontinue the machines. So getting service and parts are only going to get more difficult as time goes on.
#9
7394
7394
I'm thinking Bert means to blow off the dirt/debris on the hydros after each use. A "Dirt blanket" left on them will cause incredible heat internally, & that is BAD.blow down the hydros
#10
Tiger Small Engine
Tiger Small Engine
Are we talking about life of engine, life of hydros, or life of mower chassis?
As a general rule, with good consistent maintenance on a Briggs and Stratton engine, a 1000 hours is about right. A Vanguard might be twice that or 2000 hours. That is changing oil and filter every 50 hours, changing/checking/cleaning air filter(s), and making sure engine and cooling fins under engine shroud are free from debris.
Since few people consistently do maintenance, your mileage may and will vary.
If you change oil and filter on hydros as per manufacturer recommendations (250-1000 hours depending on hydro), then they will often last a lot longer than engine, maybe double or triple the hours.
Life of chassis on a commercial zero turn such as a Ferris or Scag is rated at approximately 5000 hours. Theoretically you could just keep rebuilding or repowering the engine on same chassis.
As a general rule, with good consistent maintenance on a Briggs and Stratton engine, a 1000 hours is about right. A Vanguard might be twice that or 2000 hours. That is changing oil and filter every 50 hours, changing/checking/cleaning air filter(s), and making sure engine and cooling fins under engine shroud are free from debris.
Since few people consistently do maintenance, your mileage may and will vary.
If you change oil and filter on hydros as per manufacturer recommendations (250-1000 hours depending on hydro), then they will often last a lot longer than engine, maybe double or triple the hours.
Life of chassis on a commercial zero turn such as a Ferris or Scag is rated at approximately 5000 hours. Theoretically you could just keep rebuilding or repowering the engine on same chassis.
I'm thinking Bert means to blow off the dirt/debris on the hydros after each use. A "Dirt blanket" left on them will cause incredible heat internally, & that is BAD.
#11
StarTech
I got a customer with a Super Z that I must keep the hydro radiator clean or you can cook a meal on the heat coming off it. He was instructed when finish mowing to allow the mower run until coming off the radiator is a lot cooler then when he first checks it. At it is a separate cooling fan system.
And this is a head up on those systems that have radiators for the hydros they must be keep clean of debris too. I had one customer with a stand on that lost both cylinder heads and the expensive engine shroud because he didn't keep the radiator clean. On that particular machine they mounted the radiator directly on the engine's cooling fan so everything overheated. What a repair bill.
StarTech
Bert will straighten us out but I believe to a cool down period is like the one truck drivers do with their big rigs. Allowing time for things to cool down while running off load. Allowing the fans to cool the hydros after they had been working hard. Keeping them clean of debris keeps a lot too. Actually the whole mower should cleaned debris after mowing as it prevents a lot problems.I'm thinking Bert means to blow off the dirt/debris on the hydros after each use. A "Dirt blanket" left on them will cause incredible heat internally, & that is BAD.
I got a customer with a Super Z that I must keep the hydro radiator clean or you can cook a meal on the heat coming off it. He was instructed when finish mowing to allow the mower run until coming off the radiator is a lot cooler then when he first checks it. At it is a separate cooling fan system.
And this is a head up on those systems that have radiators for the hydros they must be keep clean of debris too. I had one customer with a stand on that lost both cylinder heads and the expensive engine shroud because he didn't keep the radiator clean. On that particular machine they mounted the radiator directly on the engine's cooling fan so everything overheated. What a repair bill.
#12
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Just about every ZTR that comes in has dirt caked between the cooling fins of the left drive
Unlike a tractor style mower a ZTR has it's hydros under the engine and in front of the muffler so it gets very warm down there
Two things kill hydros, thin oil & running too slow under load .
As for which bit goes first ?
Commercial engines , Commands , Hondas, Vanguards , all Kawasakis will happily do several thousand hours standing on their heads provided you feed them nice clean air , change the oil at least at the end of every season & keep the cooling fins free of debris .
Chassis can be welded , decks can be welded but hydros are $$$$$$$$$ and there are 2 of them
Unlike a tractor style mower a ZTR has it's hydros under the engine and in front of the muffler so it gets very warm down there
Two things kill hydros, thin oil & running too slow under load .
As for which bit goes first ?
Commercial engines , Commands , Hondas, Vanguards , all Kawasakis will happily do several thousand hours standing on their heads provided you feed them nice clean air , change the oil at least at the end of every season & keep the cooling fins free of debris .
Chassis can be welded , decks can be welded but hydros are $$$$$$$$$ and there are 2 of them
#13
7394
X 2
7394
X 2
#14
G
GrumpyL5030
G
GrumpyL5030
My Exmark Lazer Z 60" commercial was new in 2001. It's been mowing 30 acres of our tree farm and 20 acres of lawn since then. Changing deck spindles today. Can't kill it.Hey guys, so I know there is a lot of argument on this topic and I know there are factors that can vary this greatly. Having this in mind, I would like to get some numbers on how long commercial equipment lasts. For instance, right now I have a Ferris with a 26HP Vangaurd and Hydro Gear 4400 Transaxles. I am looking at a Simplicity (made by Ferris and Briggs) that is a step down from this machine. It has a 27HP Briggs and Stratton with Hydro Gear 3400 Transaxles. I am interested in this machine because a lot of the parts including blades are interchangeable between the two. This machine is just clearly a step down from the Vanguard Ferris setup I have. So I would love to hear your guys feedback on these machines too.
However, what I really want to know is how many hours do these machines realistically see? I have seen some people say they start wearing out around 1,000 and others say they can go for thousands if taken care of properly. The advice I was given is after the machine is old and tired and either the engine or transaxles give out to start looking for a new machine. I think that is probably good advice.
I wanted this to be a general discussion. Trying to figure out how long they last and if anyone knows about these 'generic sticker' Briggs engines. When I bought my Ferris I was sold on a Vanguard because of their reliability over other engines. It does run great. Anyway I do not think me and this guy are going to be able to come to an agreement because he is way too high on price. He is asking $8,000 for it and the machine is basically brand new. I have not had a chance to speak with him yet.
#15
M
moparjoe
M
moparjoe
Just go buy a new mower and you will know what you have and you wont have someone elses worn out mower with a newer hour meter.Hard to say, most people don't even change the oil. Hour meters can be changed out.
#16
A
Aquadisiac
A
Aquadisiac
After retiring, I now work part-time at one of our city parks. Our park is hilly and rocky but we have a lot of mowing. We use two 60", commercial grade John Deere Zero Turn Mowers. One is an older 700 Series and the other is not new, an 800 Series. We service them twice a year and one has 1400 hours and the other has 1790 hours on it. Both still run great and neither use any oil. One has a Kohler engine and one has a Kawasaki. During the mowing season, we put about 10 to 13 hours on each one per week. We plan to use them until the engines wear out. One of them recently developed an oil leak. Turns out it was a leaking drain plug. I guess the longevity of the unit is all dependent upon regular maintenance and just some good luck!
#17
G
GrumpyL5030
G
GrumpyL5030
No hour meter on this rig. Pretty much used 3 hours twice a week all summer for 4 months since new. The engine is a 2 cyl.Kohler command 25hp. The only thing I've done with the engine besides regular maintenance is to get rid of the capacitor timing advance garbage and convert it to the old-school ignition timing. It runs great again now. (Knocking on wood now).My Exmark Lazer Z 60" commercial was new in 2001. It's been mowing 30 acres of our tree farm and 20 acres of lawn since then. Changing deck spindles today. Can't kill it.
#18
C
CaptFerd
C
CaptFerd
How long any mower will last depends on how long the owner is willing to allow it to last.
Attachments
#19
C
CWatters
C
CWatters
In my experience mowers rust and wear well before the engines give out. I've got perfectly good engines on mowers with welded up rusty decks and torn up grass collection bags.
On ride on mowers I've gone through sets of front wheels as when the bearings fail and caused gradual damage to the bearing mounting tube.
On ride on mowers I've gone through sets of front wheels as when the bearings fail and caused gradual damage to the bearing mounting tube.
#20
T
Timdawg
Maybe ask a good carpet cleaning machine mechanic?
T
Timdawg
Vanguard engines are beasts. You can expect 10000 hours if maintained has been my experience. Check compression and ensure valve's are adjusted. Overall operating power under load would be my final deal breaker.breaker.breaker.breaker.Hey guys, so I know there is a lot of argument on this topic and I know there are factors that can vary this greatly. Having this in mind, I would like to get some numbers on how long commercial equipment lasts. For instance, right now I have a Ferris with a 26HP Vangaurd and Hydro Gear 4400 Transaxles. I am looking at a Simplicity (made by Ferris and Briggs) that is a step down from this machine. It has a 27HP Briggs and Stratton with Hydro Gear 3400 Transaxles. I am interested in this machine because a lot of the parts including blades are interchangeable between the two. This machine is just clearly a step down from the Vanguard Ferris setup I have. So I would love to hear your guys feedback on these machines too.
However, what I really want to know is how many hours do these machines realistically see? I have seen some people say they start wearing out around 1,000 and others say they can go for thousands if taken care of properly. The advice I was given is after the machine is old and tired and either the engine or transaxles give out to start looking for a new machine. I think that is probably good advice.
I wanted this to be a general discussion. Trying to figure out how long they last and if anyone knows about these 'generic sticker' Briggs engines. When I bought my Ferris I was sold on a Vanguard because of their reliability over other engines. It does run great. Anyway I do not think me and this guy are going to be able to come to an agreement because he is way too high on price. He is asking $8,000 for it and the machine is basically brand new. I have not had a chance to speak with him yet.
Maybe ask a good carpet cleaning machine mechanic?
#21
P
Pede
P
Pede
My commercial buddy runs 900series Deere's, he told me at 2500hrs you'll start spending money. I got a 06 Toro Z master with a 72in deck and 29hp Kohler with around 1800hrs, had to replace the cam gear last year, common problem with them. I bought this Toro because it's hydraulic drive, just a pump and motors, all off the shelf stuff besides the deck is 1/4in thick and the edge is 1/2in.
#22
D
donslawns
D
donslawns
Hey guys, so I know there is a lot of argument on this topic and I know there are factors that can vary this greatly. Having this in mind, I would like to get some numbers on how long commercial equipment lasts. For instance, right now I have a Ferris with a 26HP Vangaurd and Hydro Gear 4400 Transaxles. I am looking at a Simplicity (made by Ferris and Briggs) that is a step down from this machine. It has a 27HP Briggs and Stratton with Hydro Gear 3400 Transaxles. I am interested in this machine because a lot of the parts including blades are interchangeable between the two. This machine is just clearly a step down from the Vanguard Ferris setup I have. So I would love to hear your guys feedback on these machines too.
However, what I really want to know is how many hours do these machines realistically see? I have seen some people say they start wearing out around 1,000 and others say they can go for thousands if taken care of properly. The advice I was given is after the machine is old and tired and either the engine or transaxles give out to start looking for a new machine. I think that is probably good advice.
I wanted this to be a general discussion. Trying to figure out how long they last and if anyone knows about these 'generic sticker' Briggs engines. When I bought my Ferris I was sold on a Vanguard because of their reliability over other engines. It does run great. Anyway I do not think me and this guy are going to be able to come to an agreement because he is way too high on price. He is asking $8,000 for it and the machine is basically brand new. I have not had a chance to speak with him yet.
Hey guys, so I know there is a lot of argument on this topic and I know there are factors that can vary this greatly. Having this in mind, I would like to get some numbers on how long commercial equipment lasts. For instance, right now I have a Ferris with a 26HP Vangaurd and Hydro Gear 4400 Transaxles. I am looking at a Simplicity (made by Ferris and Briggs) that is a step down from this machine. It has a 27HP Briggs and Stratton with Hydro Gear 3400 Transaxles. I am interested in this machine because a lot of the parts including blades are interchangeable between the two. This machine is just clearly a step down from the Vanguard Ferris setup I have. So I would love to hear your guys feedback on these machines too.
However, what I really want to know is how many hours do these machines realistically see? I have seen some people say they start wearing out around 1,000 and others say they can go for thousands if taken care of properly. The advice I was given is after the machine is old and tired and either the engine or transaxles give out to start looking for a new machine. I think that is probably good advice.
I wanted this to be a general discussion. Trying to figure out how long they last and if anyone knows about these 'generic sticker' Briggs engines. When I bought my Ferris I was sold on a Vanguard because of their reliability over other engines. It does run great. Anyway I do not think me and this guy are going to be able to come to an agreement because he is way too high on price. He is asking $8,000 for it and the machine is basically brand new. I have not had a chance to speak with him yet.
My guesstimation from what I have seen is that with GOOD maintenance Briggs can go 1000 hrs, Kohlers maybe 2500 and I have seen some Kawasaki powered equipment with nearly 4000 hrs.Hey guys, so I know there is a lot of argument on this topic and I know there are factors that can vary this greatly. Having this in mind, I would like to get some numbers on how long commercial equipment lasts. For instance, right now I have a Ferris with a 26HP Vangaurd and Hydro Gear 4400 Transaxles. I am looking at a Simplicity (made by Ferris and Briggs) that is a step down from this machine. It has a 27HP Briggs and Stratton with Hydro Gear 3400 Transaxles. I am interested in this machine because a lot of the parts including blades are interchangeable between the two. This machine is just clearly a step down from the Vanguard Ferris setup I have. So I would love to hear your guys feedback on these machines too.
However, what I really want to know is how many hours do these machines realistically see? I have seen some people say they start wearing out around 1,000 and others say they can go for thousands if taken care of properly. The advice I was given is after the machine is old and tired and either the engine or transaxles give out to start looking for a new machine. I think that is probably good advice.
I wanted this to be a general discussion. Trying to figure out how long they last and if anyone knows about these 'generic sticker' Briggs engines. When I bought my Ferris I was sold on a Vanguard because of their reliability over other engines. It does run great. Anyway I do not think me and this guy are going to be able to come to an agreement because he is way too high on price. He is asking $8,000 for it and the machine is basically brand new. I have not had a chance to speak with him yet.
#23
M
moparjoe
M
moparjoe
Just go buy a new mower and you will know what you have and you wont have someone elses worn out mower with a newer hour meter.
#24
C
Curtisun
C
Curtisun
I have seen a lot of mowers come in. Usually, they have never had an oil change. Most of them are borderline worn out by the time something serious goes wrong. Serious means something costing about 1/4 of a new mower price. They usually have 1000 to 5000 hrs. on them. So, there is no realistic way to say how many hrs. a mower should last.
Any mower has to have certain preventative maintenance done on them to keep them running as long as possible.
Some preventive maintenance is as follows.
1. Oil change at least at the beginning of mowing season. Depending on if it is used to cut just one yard or several yards.
2. Grease all steering, deck, and axle fittings.
3. Remove engine top cover and blow out start of each season.
4. Note any rust and use either sand blaster or antirust chemical to remove rust clean and paint.
5. Check, sharpen or replace blades every 8 to 10 uses for normal yards. But this depends on how rough the area your cutting is. Normal yards are level and have very few things that the blades hit but a rough yard there may be many roots and other things above the ground that the blade hits and this quickly dulls the blade.
5. Clean deck, engine, and transaxles every use.
6. Wash mower every month.
If this inspection is done in a timely fashion and taken care of then your mower will not die due to parts becoming weaker or breaking causing more damage and will last a long time.
I have an old mower that truthfully, I don't take care of as well as I should. But I furnish it my neighbor to cut his and my yard and he keeps it in his shed. So, I don't have much access to it. It is a 52-inch cut Husqvarna. I had traded for it, and it had about 500 hrs. Now it has about 950 hrs. I have had it about 3 years, and it was used when I got it. It has had only the starter and a deck belt gone bad. It is keep clean and serviced but not as good as it should be.
Any mower has to have certain preventative maintenance done on them to keep them running as long as possible.
Some preventive maintenance is as follows.
1. Oil change at least at the beginning of mowing season. Depending on if it is used to cut just one yard or several yards.
2. Grease all steering, deck, and axle fittings.
3. Remove engine top cover and blow out start of each season.
4. Note any rust and use either sand blaster or antirust chemical to remove rust clean and paint.
5. Check, sharpen or replace blades every 8 to 10 uses for normal yards. But this depends on how rough the area your cutting is. Normal yards are level and have very few things that the blades hit but a rough yard there may be many roots and other things above the ground that the blade hits and this quickly dulls the blade.
5. Clean deck, engine, and transaxles every use.
6. Wash mower every month.
If this inspection is done in a timely fashion and taken care of then your mower will not die due to parts becoming weaker or breaking causing more damage and will last a long time.
I have an old mower that truthfully, I don't take care of as well as I should. But I furnish it my neighbor to cut his and my yard and he keeps it in his shed. So, I don't have much access to it. It is a 52-inch cut Husqvarna. I had traded for it, and it had about 500 hrs. Now it has about 950 hrs. I have had it about 3 years, and it was used when I got it. It has had only the starter and a deck belt gone bad. It is keep clean and serviced but not as good as it should be.
#25
P
perimeterlandscaping@comc
frequent fluid changes are the key to a long mower life. both on the transmissions and the engine. also never running the engine at full throttle extends the life substantially. keep the knob backed off to 3//4 power and just take your route a little slower. as the engine and transmissions get up in hours, more frequent oil changes are required .its a small price to pay for all the power and effortless work they do compared to walking the yards.
coils go bad on all v twins. at the very least youll be wire wheeling your coils to get them to fire if not replacing them. the camshaft sees a lot of abuse in those engine configurations so eventually youll have to rebuild it with a new camshaft and the probably have to rering the pistons if your desperate and cant afford to replace your engine.
other than that, store your gear indoors and keep everything under lock and key at all times. im at 1400 hrs on my kawasaki fx
P
perimeterlandscaping@comc
all stand on mowers on the market generally have the same major components, the hydrogear transmissions are industry standard. the floating deck bolts and throttle lines all use the pivoting eye bolts on the ferris.Hey guys, so I know there is a lot of argument on this topic and I know there are factors that can vary this greatly. Having this in mind, I would like to get some numbers on how long commercial equipment lasts. For instance, right now I have a Ferris with a 26HP Vangaurd and Hydro Gear 4400 Transaxles. I am looking at a Simplicity (made by Ferris and Briggs) that is a step down from this machine. It has a 27HP Briggs and Stratton with Hydro Gear 3400 Transaxles. I am interested in this machine because a lot of the parts including blades are interchangeable between the two. This machine is just clearly a step down from the Vanguard Ferris setup I have. So I would love to hear your guys feedback on these machines too.
However, what I really want to know is how many hours do these machines realistically see? I have seen some people say they start wearing out around 1,000 and others say they can go for thousands if taken care of properly. The advice I was given is after the machine is old and tired and either the engine or transaxles give out to start looking for a new machine. I think that is probably good advice.
I wanted this to be a general discussion. Trying to figure out how long they last and if anyone knows about these 'generic sticker' Briggs engines. When I bought my Ferris I was sold on a Vanguard because of their reliability over other engines. It does run great. Anyway I do not think me and this guy are going to be able to come to an agreement because he is way too high on price. He is asking $8,000 for it and the machine is basically brand new. I have not had a chance to speak with him yet.
frequent fluid changes are the key to a long mower life. both on the transmissions and the engine. also never running the engine at full throttle extends the life substantially. keep the knob backed off to 3//4 power and just take your route a little slower. as the engine and transmissions get up in hours, more frequent oil changes are required .its a small price to pay for all the power and effortless work they do compared to walking the yards.
coils go bad on all v twins. at the very least youll be wire wheeling your coils to get them to fire if not replacing them. the camshaft sees a lot of abuse in those engine configurations so eventually youll have to rebuild it with a new camshaft and the probably have to rering the pistons if your desperate and cant afford to replace your engine.
other than that, store your gear indoors and keep everything under lock and key at all times. im at 1400 hrs on my kawasaki fx
#26
1slow5point0h
1slow5point0h
I’m on year 4 with my Hustler 60” and a Kawasaki FR730V and just hit 70 hours yesterday lol. Assuming it’ll last me quite a while with no more than the 1.x acre I mow and occasionally a family member’s yard. I change the oil at the recommended intervals and the air filter as needed.
#27
KM Richards
Meh, with proper maintenance probably around 20k hours to maybe 30k hours.
KM Richards
How many hours do machines really last?
Meh, with proper maintenance probably around 20k hours to maybe 30k hours.
#28
C
cwtex04
C
cwtex04
I have a 2006 Hustler mini fastrak with over 1600 hours . It has a Honda 16 hp motor, non serviceable hydros and only thing I’ve done is routine maintenance. Only issues I’ve had is change coils on motor twice , a couple of idle pulleys , new tires , blades and batteries. Not bad for 17 years and it still runs good. Also have a Honda HR215 self propelled mower I bought in 1989 , just had first in shop work done in it . They did a tune up , she starts first pull like new .
Buy quality ,take care of it and it should last a long time .
Buy quality ,take care of it and it should last a long time .
#29
G
GrumpyL5030
G
GrumpyL5030
Nice photo of your old garden tractor. Resembles my old Bolens 1886. If I ever put it back together, I'll post a pic of it on here too.How long any mower will last depends on how long the owner is willing to allow it to last.
#30
D
dad7432
I've got a "narrow" 27 inch blade rider made by MTD (a Yardbug) that I use in a couple of large suburban gated yards. It's 23 years old. It's a residential mower, with too many control cables to count, but it's such a pleasure to use, because its fast, all steel and has a grass catcher under the seat, (did I say it's really narrow?). Its Briggs 11 hp engine is quite reliable, but it's also somewhat of a maintenance headache. It leaks some oil and the control cables are a real pain to adjust every season. But I will keep fixing it as long as someone keeps making parts for it. How many hours are on it? Heck if I know, but if I had to guess.... 20 years x 6 hrs a week x 25 weeks a year is 3,000 hrs. That's crazy for a residential mower that I grabbed for $300 bucks 20 years ago.
D
dad7432
How long do you WANT it to last?Hey guys, so I know there is a lot of argument on this topic and I know there are factors that can vary this greatly. Having this in mind, I would like to get some numbers on how long commercial equipment lasts. For instance, right now I have a Ferris with a 26HP Vangaurd and Hydro Gear 4400 Transaxles. I am looking at a Simplicity (made by Ferris and Briggs) that is a step down from this machine. It has a 27HP Briggs and Stratton with Hydro Gear 3400 Transaxles. I am interested in this machine because a lot of the parts including blades are interchangeable between the two. This machine is just clearly a step down from the Vanguard Ferris setup I have. So I would love to hear your guys feedback on these machines too.
However, what I really want to know is how many hours do these machines realistically see? I have seen some people say they start wearing out around 1,000 and others say they can go for thousands if taken care of properly. The advice I was given is after the machine is old and tired and either the engine or transaxles give out to start looking for a new machine. I think that is probably good advice.
I wanted this to be a general discussion. Trying to figure out how long they last and if anyone knows about these 'generic sticker' Briggs engines. When I bought my Ferris I was sold on a Vanguard because of their reliability over other engines. It does run great. Anyway I do not think me and this guy are going to be able to come to an agreement because he is way too high on price. He is asking $8,000 for it and the machine is basically brand new. I have not had a chance to speak with him yet.
I've got a "narrow" 27 inch blade rider made by MTD (a Yardbug) that I use in a couple of large suburban gated yards. It's 23 years old. It's a residential mower, with too many control cables to count, but it's such a pleasure to use, because its fast, all steel and has a grass catcher under the seat, (did I say it's really narrow?). Its Briggs 11 hp engine is quite reliable, but it's also somewhat of a maintenance headache. It leaks some oil and the control cables are a real pain to adjust every season. But I will keep fixing it as long as someone keeps making parts for it. How many hours are on it? Heck if I know, but if I had to guess.... 20 years x 6 hrs a week x 25 weeks a year is 3,000 hrs. That's crazy for a residential mower that I grabbed for $300 bucks 20 years ago.
#31
F
FarmallBob
F
FarmallBob
As previous posters note "it depends".
Whe we sold my late father in law's Gravely ZTR it showed 1,500+ hours on the meter. It had a 25 HP Kohler that still ran great - just a puff of blue smoke on a cold start but used virtually no oil between changes. Aside from belts, blades and one spindle bearing it required no service. (FIL - a retired farmer - was good about routine maintenance and keeping the hydros blown off....)
A friend has a Ferris with a Perkins/Cat diesel showing 2,500+ hours. Aside from minor electrical issues (cheap ignition/PTO switches and mice chewing the wiring) it has been trouble free-free for her. She too is good about maintenance and keeping it clean.
OTOH I was recently given a Cub Cadet with a blown engine - it shows only 242 hours. The elderly owner neglected to check/refill the oil until internal engine parts suddenly departed thru a hole that appeared in the side of the crankcase.
Whe we sold my late father in law's Gravely ZTR it showed 1,500+ hours on the meter. It had a 25 HP Kohler that still ran great - just a puff of blue smoke on a cold start but used virtually no oil between changes. Aside from belts, blades and one spindle bearing it required no service. (FIL - a retired farmer - was good about routine maintenance and keeping the hydros blown off....)
A friend has a Ferris with a Perkins/Cat diesel showing 2,500+ hours. Aside from minor electrical issues (cheap ignition/PTO switches and mice chewing the wiring) it has been trouble free-free for her. She too is good about maintenance and keeping it clean.
OTOH I was recently given a Cub Cadet with a blown engine - it shows only 242 hours. The elderly owner neglected to check/refill the oil until internal engine parts suddenly departed thru a hole that appeared in the side of the crankcase.
#32
Smithsonite
Smithsonite
Back in the day, my dad had an old Roper-built Craftsman Varidrive twin-cylinder garden tractor that ran 600 hours, and was hardly broken in. We sold it to a neighbor, who beat the crap out of it another 5 years, and sold it to someone else.
I've worked on a homeowner-quality Husqvarna lawn tractor with 600 hours on it, and it was BEAT. I had changed countless deck spindles and belts over the years. The engine was still mint internally when I tore it down to fix all the gushing oil leaks. Transmission failed not long after that. Think it made it close to 700 hours, with a TON of help from me, lol.
I've worked on a homeowner-quality Husqvarna lawn tractor with 600 hours on it, and it was BEAT. I had changed countless deck spindles and belts over the years. The engine was still mint internally when I tore it down to fix all the gushing oil leaks. Transmission failed not long after that. Think it made it close to 700 hours, with a TON of help from me, lol.
#33
Dixie Boosh Wookie
26 years in the U.S. Navy taught me, if you take care of your equipment, your bank accts. will look better, and you'll sleep better at night.
Dixie Boosh Wookie
Got my spankin new JD RX-95 back in the early to mid 80's. Regular maintenance, an ignition upgrade, mulch kit. NO crappy etoh fuel, synthetic oil. Been doing an awesome job on my 2 acres here in the Free State of Florida for nearly forty years. And it don't burn a drop of oil.Hey guys, so I know there is a lot of argument on this topic and I know there are factors that can vary this greatly. Having this in mind, I would like to get some numbers on how long commercial equipment lasts. For instance, right now I have a Ferris with a 26HP Vangaurd and Hydro Gear 4400 Transaxles. I am looking at a Simplicity (made by Ferris and Briggs) that is a step down from this machine. It has a 27HP Briggs and Stratton with Hydro Gear 3400 Transaxles. I am interested in this machine because a lot of the parts including blades are interchangeable between the two. This machine is just clearly a step down from the Vanguard Ferris setup I have. So I would love to hear your guys feedback on these machines too.
However, what I really want to know is how many hours do these machines realistically see? I have seen some people say they start wearing out around 1,000 and others say they can go for thousands if taken care of properly. The advice I was given is after the machine is old and tired and either the engine or transaxles give out to start looking for a new machine. I think that is probably good advice.
I wanted this to be a general discussion. Trying to figure out how long they last and if anyone knows about these 'generic sticker' Briggs engines. When I bought my Ferris I was sold on a Vanguard because of their reliability over other engines. It does run great. Anyway I do not think me and this guy are going to be able to come to an agreement because he is way too high on price. He is asking $8,000 for it and the machine is basically brand new. I have not had a chance to speak with him yet.
26 years in the U.S. Navy taught me, if you take care of your equipment, your bank accts. will look better, and you'll sleep better at night.
Attachments
#34
J
Johner
J
Johner
Check where the old ones are turned in for a rebate and see how many hours are on them. Some say they like to turn them in around 1500 hours.
#35
G
GrumpyCat
About to install a Country Clipper OE option hour meter on my Avenue. The higher level Country Clippers include this as standard equipment. There is a knockout for the meter and two leads to power it.
Agree the cheap aftermarket inductive pickup hour meters have poor designs and weak batteries. 2 years is about the max they last even in unopened package. There are some with replaceable batteries at higher cost, good for the original owner who knows when the battery was replaced and that it was replaced when needed. Not so good for a prospective buyer of used equipment.
G
GrumpyCat
Good hour meters are powered by the vehicle's electrical system.Or in some cases the internal battery in the hour meter quits causing no display.
About to install a Country Clipper OE option hour meter on my Avenue. The higher level Country Clippers include this as standard equipment. There is a knockout for the meter and two leads to power it.
Agree the cheap aftermarket inductive pickup hour meters have poor designs and weak batteries. 2 years is about the max they last even in unopened package. There are some with replaceable batteries at higher cost, good for the original owner who knows when the battery was replaced and that it was replaced when needed. Not so good for a prospective buyer of used equipment.
#36
J
jbenny2
J
jbenny2
I've inherited a Ransome triple mower mark 4, found in the undergrowth when we moved in. Checked the oil, new fuel and battery it started first time. Took a couple of years to getting it running sweet again, mainly due to lack of parts availability, but found someone local who had restored one show condition, and was a great help. These machines are getting on for 50 years old with 10of thousands of hours of use, many are ex council so would have been used daily during the season, and they still work great, especial the Mag 2 cylinder petrol's. They were built to last in those days, every thing on it is heavy duty, no plastic, electronics, sensors or microswitches to play up if they get wet. Every bolt has undone despite the fact its lived out for a few years before I got it. The only real problem I've had is the carb was gummed up and they are nearly impossible to clean due to the construction, and modern petrol's seem to make the problem worse. Having also had a couple of smaller ride on mowers, Yardman, Countax, Atco, all seem to fail as they are just too flimsy and over complicated.
#37
I
ILENGINE
I
ILENGINE
Just as a side note. For the consumer market and can also explain some of the mentality behind people doing or not doing maintenance. The average consumer riding mower gets replaced every 4.5 years and averages 38 hours per year. The average push mower gets replaced every 3.5 years and averages 12 hours per year. Which goes to the mentality from the manufacturers that have basically designed their products around a 5 year life expenctancy.
#38
D
Diwali
D
Diwali
What’s an hour meter?
My Craftsman LT2000 has been worked hard for 15 years but mostly averaging 9 months a year. I've kept on top of maintenance throughout which I believe is why it has remained so reliable. I’m not a commercial outfit but looking after 5 acres with one machine sure feels like it. .
My Craftsman LT2000 has been worked hard for 15 years but mostly averaging 9 months a year. I've kept on top of maintenance throughout which I believe is why it has remained so reliable. I’m not a commercial outfit but looking after 5 acres with one machine sure feels like it. .
#39
K
keninman1965
K
keninman1965
I am mowing around 2 acres every weekend in Indiana with a 60" 1997 Dixie Chopper Flatlander. A couple of years ago I upgraded the engine to a 25hp fuel injected Kohler, maybe it is a 27hp, I will have to go look. The pump, nor the wheel motors nor deck spindles have been rebuilt. I did have to put in new front wheel bearings. The rear tires have been replaced with knobbies because of the hills here. It is a simple well built machine that I imagine will last many many more seasons.
#40
A
aussielawny
A
aussielawny
l've been doing this for years now Bert, my Grav Compact Pro has separate pumps/motors.....should l not be doing this? l'm fanatical about maintenance, l change the hydro oil & filter every 150 hrsAs per the other comments it is the little things that kill mowers and in particular ZTR's
Eg;- dropping the engine speed low when driving up the ramp into the truck/trailer can wipe 1000 hrs or more from the hydros .
Failing to blow down the hydros every day so they cool eficiently can wipe off hundreds of hours .
Running a worn belt on the drives can wipe a thousand hours off the left drive in under a year of use
Ditto for not keeping the tension arm well lubbed .
Ditto for not changing the hydro oil & filters
Then there is the terrain being mowed
Got a customer who has a Walker used for mowing a cemetry , two hours a day six days a week he had it when I bought this business 11 years ago , I service it twice a year and it shows no signs of wearing out to date .
The mowers he uses to mow street verges with are pretty well worn out in 2 years .
Very few hour meters will run for longer than 4 years or 1500 hrs got a stack of them that have been stuck between 1000 & 2000 hours for years .
Most of my pros do 6 month services and do not give a wrinkled rats rectum about actual hours .
And did I mention keeping blades sharp ?
The customer who swaps them over between each mow gets 3 to 4 years out of a set of spindle bearings.
Same mower with another customer who just runs them till the flutes break off does 2 sets of spindle bearings a year .
#41
T
TobyU
T
TobyU
I've never worked on that many commercial mowers but I've never seen anymore with over 4200 hours on it. That was an old one with an analog hour meter with the little wheel that spun like an old odometer on a car.
Most of the mowers that I've seen that are pretty hard worked start having some pretty major repairs in the 1200 to 1400 hour range but some will go up to 1800 or so.
Things like slipped valve guides where they will continue to mow for the whole rest of the day as best they can so instead of being able to fix it you have to replace the entire head.
Had to do that on a Kawasaki 2 years ago. It had 1,200 and something hours on it in a John Deere 50 inch or so chassis.
I think the highest Briggs V-Twin I've seen that wasn't a vanguard was either 1400 or 1600 hours.
That's well beyond what the average homeowner will ever get from machine because most of the time it'll be so many years until they can accumulate that many hours that when some needed repair comes up they will just decide to buy a new one.
The average person in my area only plus between 25 and 35 hours a year on any type of mower and most people have a 42 in front engine rider.
So if it's a zero turn the hours could be a little lower.
The fact is I have had tons of riders come in that are 12 to 15 years old it only have between 220 and 270 hours on them so you can do the math.
In this many years they're pretty beat up and they don't really think it's outrageous or uncalled for to need to buy a new machine.
I believe this is why on the newer machines a lot of the homeowner ones are no longer having the cheap little digital meter even though there's already a spot in the dash and sometimes a hole that they have to actually put a plug into when they delete it but I believe it's incriminating.
When a machine is 12 years old and an engineer transmission failure makes you decide to replace it you don't feel like you've gotten ripped off but when you look down and see it's only got 194 hours on it you really feel cheated!!
I would say some of those old skag walk behind mowers with the pistol grips and the drive belt on each side and the old Kawasaki singles what were they 420 or 460 maybe an FS 460??
I would say some of those machines have 5,000 to 10,000 hours on it but for the most part on the zero turns and stuff made in the past 20 years you'll be lucky to get 1200 to 1500 hours without it needing at least a hydro replaced or some major engine work or an engine transplant.
As Bert said, people really do bad things to these without knowing it
I tell people all the time and this is even for a simple little Craftsman 42-in mower and not a big expensive ZTR but "if it's mowing or just moving the speed has to be in the normal full speed operation position"
You do not know for 2 hours and get the thing up to full operating temperature and then turn off the blades and I look down to half speed or all the way to Lowes it will run and then drive the thing two or three hundred feet to park it or to put it on a trailer!!
This spikes the hydro temperature excessively because you just lowered the engine RPMs from around 3200 to 3500 down to around 1300 and the engine speed is directly related to how fast the little fans on top of the hydros are spinning.
Also, drive them like a Cadillac and like you don't want to spill your beer!
I literally had a guy pull up in front of my shop with a nice newer Ford truck and a gorgeous new enclosed trailer probably 16 ft long or more.
He had two bobcats on it and as he backed one off because he wanted me to look at it because it wasn't moving right like it had a weak hydro...
He backed it off of his trailer turn slightly to the left and then did a burnout and literally spun one of the tires.
I instantly thought...
I see why you have a hydro problem now.
These things should be driven like a Cadillac and you shouldn't tow or pull anything with them.
They are not tractors even if they have a hitch on the back or even if someone has welded a hitch on the back. They are made to cut grass.
Most of the mowers that I've seen that are pretty hard worked start having some pretty major repairs in the 1200 to 1400 hour range but some will go up to 1800 or so.
Things like slipped valve guides where they will continue to mow for the whole rest of the day as best they can so instead of being able to fix it you have to replace the entire head.
Had to do that on a Kawasaki 2 years ago. It had 1,200 and something hours on it in a John Deere 50 inch or so chassis.
I think the highest Briggs V-Twin I've seen that wasn't a vanguard was either 1400 or 1600 hours.
That's well beyond what the average homeowner will ever get from machine because most of the time it'll be so many years until they can accumulate that many hours that when some needed repair comes up they will just decide to buy a new one.
The average person in my area only plus between 25 and 35 hours a year on any type of mower and most people have a 42 in front engine rider.
So if it's a zero turn the hours could be a little lower.
The fact is I have had tons of riders come in that are 12 to 15 years old it only have between 220 and 270 hours on them so you can do the math.
In this many years they're pretty beat up and they don't really think it's outrageous or uncalled for to need to buy a new machine.
I believe this is why on the newer machines a lot of the homeowner ones are no longer having the cheap little digital meter even though there's already a spot in the dash and sometimes a hole that they have to actually put a plug into when they delete it but I believe it's incriminating.
When a machine is 12 years old and an engineer transmission failure makes you decide to replace it you don't feel like you've gotten ripped off but when you look down and see it's only got 194 hours on it you really feel cheated!!
I would say some of those old skag walk behind mowers with the pistol grips and the drive belt on each side and the old Kawasaki singles what were they 420 or 460 maybe an FS 460??
I would say some of those machines have 5,000 to 10,000 hours on it but for the most part on the zero turns and stuff made in the past 20 years you'll be lucky to get 1200 to 1500 hours without it needing at least a hydro replaced or some major engine work or an engine transplant.
As Bert said, people really do bad things to these without knowing it
I tell people all the time and this is even for a simple little Craftsman 42-in mower and not a big expensive ZTR but "if it's mowing or just moving the speed has to be in the normal full speed operation position"
You do not know for 2 hours and get the thing up to full operating temperature and then turn off the blades and I look down to half speed or all the way to Lowes it will run and then drive the thing two or three hundred feet to park it or to put it on a trailer!!
This spikes the hydro temperature excessively because you just lowered the engine RPMs from around 3200 to 3500 down to around 1300 and the engine speed is directly related to how fast the little fans on top of the hydros are spinning.
Also, drive them like a Cadillac and like you don't want to spill your beer!
I literally had a guy pull up in front of my shop with a nice newer Ford truck and a gorgeous new enclosed trailer probably 16 ft long or more.
He had two bobcats on it and as he backed one off because he wanted me to look at it because it wasn't moving right like it had a weak hydro...
He backed it off of his trailer turn slightly to the left and then did a burnout and literally spun one of the tires.
I instantly thought...
I see why you have a hydro problem now.
These things should be driven like a Cadillac and you shouldn't tow or pull anything with them.
They are not tractors even if they have a hitch on the back or even if someone has welded a hitch on the back. They are made to cut grass.
#42
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Yes it is very very bad for the pump & motor units that are face plate type.
Not so bad for the side cam type ( Eatons )
The whole system requires the resistance provided by the oil squeezing out of the sides of the plates being lower than the resistance of the piston to pump the oil or drive the motor.
This is why the pumps have 1 more piston than the motor so the pump is always pumping more oil than motor can use
Not so bad for the side cam type ( Eatons )
The whole system requires the resistance provided by the oil squeezing out of the sides of the plates being lower than the resistance of the piston to pump the oil or drive the motor.
This is why the pumps have 1 more piston than the motor so the pump is always pumping more oil than motor can use
#43
A
aussielawny
A
aussielawny
Thanks mate.....it's only for the 10 seconds or so while reversing up the ramp but l'll stop doing itYes it is very very bad for the pump & motor units that are face plate type.
Not so bad for the side cam type ( Eatons )
The whole system requires the resistance provided by the oil squeezing out of the sides of the plates being lower than the resistance of the piston to pump the oil or drive the motor.
This is why the pumps have 1 more piston than the motor so the pump is always pumping more oil than motor can use
#44
H
Hexa Fox
Also wow this post exploded. I have been reading through the comments on my phone. A lot of really great feedback here, I appreciate it. So to be honest the only two things I have ever done to my transaxles is clean grass out of the fan and change the oil as well as the filter in them. I never thought about cleaning them off. I also remember seeing people saying to never wash commercial (or really any) equipment. I heard the argument that water is not a friend of equipment. I mention this because I saw a couple of you mention it. My OHV covers and some others parts of the engine are covered in dirt. I do try to wipe this off from time to time. I may start pressure washing it from time to time.
Also I am anal about taking care of my equipment. There are grease fittings on this thing that are almost literally hidden. The manual sucks for my machine. It does not tell you how many there are or where they are located. I usually grease it once or twice a year. I usually give things like the spindles around 15 pumps. Back when I was mowing a little more regularly I think I usually greased it three or more times a year.
So I have never discussed how many hours I have on my machine... I have always thought that something may be wrong with my hour meter. However, I am over 500 hours on it now and have had it since 2015. To be clear, I have mowed a lot of grass with this machine. The properties that I mow are between 0.75 and 2.00 acres and I would say my average yard is right around an acre or less. I have mowed about ten yards like this every year on average. I just picked up two people this year and I am right back at that number.
H
Hexa Fox
lmao Just guessing but thinking you may be a little bias here and be a fan of Kawasaki? Personally from what I have seen the Vanguards have less problems. It is one of the reasons I bought it. Kawasaki was my second choice. To clarify, I am not talking about the smaller consumer grade Briggs engines, I am talking about Briggs Vanguards.My guesstimation from what I have seen is that with GOOD maintenance Briggs can go 1000 hrs, Kohlers maybe 2500 and I have seen some Kawasaki powered equipment with nearly 4000 hrs.
Also wow this post exploded. I have been reading through the comments on my phone. A lot of really great feedback here, I appreciate it. So to be honest the only two things I have ever done to my transaxles is clean grass out of the fan and change the oil as well as the filter in them. I never thought about cleaning them off. I also remember seeing people saying to never wash commercial (or really any) equipment. I heard the argument that water is not a friend of equipment. I mention this because I saw a couple of you mention it. My OHV covers and some others parts of the engine are covered in dirt. I do try to wipe this off from time to time. I may start pressure washing it from time to time.
Also I am anal about taking care of my equipment. There are grease fittings on this thing that are almost literally hidden. The manual sucks for my machine. It does not tell you how many there are or where they are located. I usually grease it once or twice a year. I usually give things like the spindles around 15 pumps. Back when I was mowing a little more regularly I think I usually greased it three or more times a year.
So I have never discussed how many hours I have on my machine... I have always thought that something may be wrong with my hour meter. However, I am over 500 hours on it now and have had it since 2015. To be clear, I have mowed a lot of grass with this machine. The properties that I mow are between 0.75 and 2.00 acres and I would say my average yard is right around an acre or less. I have mowed about ten yards like this every year on average. I just picked up two people this year and I am right back at that number.
#45
H
Hexa Fox
H
Hexa Fox
I guess if this is true I am screwed because I mow on steep hills that no one should be doing with a zero turn period. I see a lot of people using the Cub Cadet Synchro Steer (steering wheel) now. They are surprisingly stable on hills. I have a friend that uses that sucker like a Ventrac I swear.l've been doing this for years now Bert, my Grav Compact Pro has separate pumps/motors.....should l not be doing this? l'm fanatical about maintenance, l change the hydro oil & filter every 150 hrs
#46
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Steep hills are not a big problem provided that the engine is running full speed
Running up steep slopes using engine speed to control the ground speed is the problem .
As for the steering wheel cub , yes they& the similar Toro are more stable on slopes because the front casters are controlled so they can not go sideways like other brands do .
Running up steep slopes using engine speed to control the ground speed is the problem .
As for the steering wheel cub , yes they& the similar Toro are more stable on slopes because the front casters are controlled so they can not go sideways like other brands do .
#47
T
tombukt2
T
tombukt2
I don't think that's true If you look on the auction sites all over the web especially the ones out in the middle of the country like in Nebraska and Ohio and places like that I see machines with 1100 hours plenty of them on there and actually the machines look like there many times pretty clean other than the normal rust around the deck surface rust seats that are well worn not necessarily ripped but completely flattened out things like that at these kind of hours spindles have been replaced generally speaking If not they're going to be getting replaced and short order I do all my own work I don't let anybody touch any of my equipment that's one of the main ways that things last a long time when you're paying a shop to do your work they're beating on things with hammers and all kinds of fun stuff We don't do that here most of the things that go out on these machines are the hydraulics especially the hydro gear stuff as these newfangled things that are small and compact and they're made to go about 800 hours or something like that maybe and then the cost of rebuilding is close to the cost of replacement usually I'm going to find replacements from third party vendors because many of these things interchange on many mowers. The complicated mowers are the ones with the separate pumps and wheel motors like the Parker systems which generally were thought to be heavier duty and better built then Parker got bought up by somebody or just generally cheaped out like most everything has and so now maybe not so much but you can look at all Cub cadet tanks and things like that and see a lot of those machines with 11 and $1,200 hours still running fine they're just not the latest and greatest and the shiniest paint just like the guy with the 50K truck to haul the equip.I would say that 95% or more of people in the commercial mowing business change their oil regularly. I know a lot of people in the business and they are anal about it, as am I. I do not put that many hours on my machine anymore but I change the oil at least at the beginning of each season. I also change the transaxles fluid every few years or so too. If I was using it more often I would be doing it more often.
What you are talking about is residential homeowners. That is why manufacturers nowadays are sealing everything up and making it maintenance free. I think the new engines that have a filter prefilled with a quart of oil (or whatever) they are, are pretty moronic. However, if you can convince people to change those out I guess it is better than not doing anything at all. The are 'throw away' machines which I find ridiculous. You pay thousands of dollars for them and use them until they stop working and pretty much toss them or put "free" on them out by the curb. For the record I would never do this. I find it mind boggling that people do.
Anyway what I was sort of looking for here is "Hey I had/have a Ferris with the same setup and I am over 1,500 hours right now". Because people say these machines can easily get thousands of hours but I never see it. If you go look at classifieds for them they rarely have over 1,000 hours and I was wondering if it was because they are still relatively new machines or you are getting close to their failure rate.
#48
C
Cajun power
C
Cajun power
a commercial grade machine is going to get heavy duty frequent hard use. As a matter of reality, these machines are generally designed with serviceability and reliability as top priority. But what this really means is that the machine must be maintained, cleaned, greased and adjusted and inspected often. So really, the "life" of these machines depend largely on how often and how WELL the machines is maintained. As some have commented there are certain does and don't's with any zero turn. Now, there are several ways to look at this...you can spend the high dollars for those high end machines and try to keep up on all the maintenance OR you can just buy a lower end commercial setup with the expectation that after say...500 hours, you are just going to buy another new. I know alot of commercial mowers who do just that. They look at the investment required for long term maintenance and just decide...nope...the math doesn't add up trying to stretch the life out of machine that is likely to get hard use and likely develop problems around the 500 hour mark...because the reality is that the higher end machines..parts are very expensive...and time consuming..and that means you are not making money mowing. So there is a balance and this is different for every commercial mower.
But of course there are exceptions to this...I have a 20 year old dixie chopper with generac engine and general hydro motor...It's a little tough to work on and maintain and the parts are not cheap...but it's a beast and it's my go to rough cut mini bush hog. it just does not quit. Made very very well and very dependable. I'll probably continue to stretch the life out with lots of preventative maintenance..because it is so dependable. And I only paid a thousand bucks for it ..used. The deck is bomb proof, the spindles are incredibly strong and it has these thick very strong short blades that axe through just about anything that is less than an inch in diameter. It's got over 1500 hours and still runs like a champ.
I realized that many of even the very best top end ztr's are so expensive to repair for parts and labor time, and the dependability is just not what I expected...So know I have what I consider a balanced strategy. I buy new mowers every two years...I sell the old gear, because the numbers show me it's not worth the time, the effort and the cost to try and keep them running. The upside to doing this is that you can still recoup alot of your investment money because the commercial grade mowers retain a nice chunk of value as long as they are maintained.
in the commercial mowing industry..one has to consider it as a business...and less about long term ownership.
just something to think about.
But of course there are exceptions to this...I have a 20 year old dixie chopper with generac engine and general hydro motor...It's a little tough to work on and maintain and the parts are not cheap...but it's a beast and it's my go to rough cut mini bush hog. it just does not quit. Made very very well and very dependable. I'll probably continue to stretch the life out with lots of preventative maintenance..because it is so dependable. And I only paid a thousand bucks for it ..used. The deck is bomb proof, the spindles are incredibly strong and it has these thick very strong short blades that axe through just about anything that is less than an inch in diameter. It's got over 1500 hours and still runs like a champ.
I realized that many of even the very best top end ztr's are so expensive to repair for parts and labor time, and the dependability is just not what I expected...So know I have what I consider a balanced strategy. I buy new mowers every two years...I sell the old gear, because the numbers show me it's not worth the time, the effort and the cost to try and keep them running. The upside to doing this is that you can still recoup alot of your investment money because the commercial grade mowers retain a nice chunk of value as long as they are maintained.
in the commercial mowing industry..one has to consider it as a business...and less about long term ownership.
just something to think about.
#49
T
TobyU
A lot of people do this and it's a very bad habit. You still have all the way to the machine and the way to the operator that you're moving but yet you have only about a third of the engine speed and much less cooling from lack of air flow because the fans aren't moving very quickly.
I always say if it's mowing or even just moving, the speed needs to be at full throttle cutting operating position.
T
TobyU
It's not really about it only taking 10 seconds to do but more about the strain it puts on it if you do it abruptly and roughly instead of smoothly and if you lower the engine speed down after you're done cutting let's say and turn the blades off to even drive back to the ramp.Thanks mate.....it's only for the 10 seconds or so while reversing up the ramp but l'll stop doing it
A lot of people do this and it's a very bad habit. You still have all the way to the machine and the way to the operator that you're moving but yet you have only about a third of the engine speed and much less cooling from lack of air flow because the fans aren't moving very quickly.
I always say if it's mowing or even just moving, the speed needs to be at full throttle cutting operating position.
#50
T
troverman
T
troverman
Your statement makes no sense. There are plenty of videos from Wright mowers talking about the 2" receiver hitch on the back of their ZXL and ZXT zero turn mowers. In the video, Wright clearly says they are rated to pull 500lbs but they have tested them to pull much more. Each hydro manufacturer specifies a torque rating and a load rating of their pump / motor or transaxle assembly. There are plenty of heavy-duty ZTRs with hitches rated to pull similar, and I wouldn't expect any ill effects from towing within the rated amount with the engine up to speed....These things should be driven like a Cadillac and you shouldn't tow or pull anything with them.
They are not tractors even if they have a hitch on the back or even if someone has welded a hitch on the back. They are made to cut grass.
#51
T
troverman
T
troverman
How long will these mowers last? Pretty much depends upon how well you take care of it. Having a more costly, better made mower should mean it lasts longer, but those need good maintenance too. Keep in mind that heavier-duty transmissions and higher power motors are needed for heavier chassis mowers with bigger cutting decks. The heavier the machine, the bigger components needed. A unit that is smaller and lighter with "lower end" components doesn't necessarily mean it isn't quality, just the correct spec for the size, weight, and performance of the machine. A ZT-3400 transaxle is considered commercial grade. However, there is a world of difference between a ZT-3400 and a ZT-4400. 4-lug vs 5-lug hubs is one indicator. But of course, the 4400 is designed for higher horsepower engines and heavy chassis mowers.
#52
jekjr
jekjr
I ran a Tiger Cat Scag with a 22 HP Kawasaki 2700 hours on the meter and on two different occasions the meter would stop working for a length of time. I estimate that 3000 hours would be conservative. It was still running and not using excessive oil when I sold it last year. The only reason I sold it was I found a much newer one just like it with less than 250 hours on it. It was running daily when I sold it. I always ran the blue bottle oil from Walmart in the engine. 10 W 30 for years and then the las couple I ran 20W50. It was always changed at around 100 hours and when the hour meter was not working when it started to look dirty. I changed the oil for the pumps every 500 hours and used 20W 50 blue bottle Walmart oil in them as well.Hey guys, so I know there is a lot of argument on this topic and I know there are factors that can vary this greatly. Having this in mind, I would like to get some numbers on how long commercial equipment lasts. For instance, right now I have a Ferris with a 26HP Vangaurd and Hydro Gear 4400 Transaxles. I am looking at a Simplicity (made by Ferris and Briggs) that is a step down from this machine. It has a 27HP Briggs and Stratton with Hydro Gear 3400 Transaxles. I am interested in this machine because a lot of the parts including blades are interchangeable between the two. This machine is just clearly a step down from the Vanguard Ferris setup I have. So I would love to hear your guys feedback on these machines too.
However, what I really want to know is how many hours do these machines realistically see? I have seen some people say they start wearing out around 1,000 and others say they can go for thousands if taken care of properly. The advice I was given is after the machine is old and tired and either the engine or transaxles give out to start looking for a new machine. I think that is probably good advice.
I wanted this to be a general discussion. Trying to figure out how long they last and if anyone knows about these 'generic sticker' Briggs engines. When I bought my Ferris I was sold on a Vanguard because of their reliability over other engines. It does run great. Anyway I do not think me and this guy are going to be able to come to an agreement because he is way too high on price. He is asking $8,000 for it and the machine is basically brand new. I have not had a chance to speak with him yet.
#53
W
WSD
W
WSD
I have the other brand, with an EXtraordinarily heavy chassis. I bought it because I had a new big yard (4-5 acres) and didn't want to spend multiple afternoons after work cutting grass with my (pretty big) lawn tractor. I had zero knowledge at that time, in fact I had to have the seller drive it onto my rental trailer because I was nervous to try it. Anyway, turns out it was their top-of-the-line rider and it had a new engine with 1600 hours on the clock. Last year a hydro went bad-$2700 parts plus $300 labor. Ugh,....but...when the next hydro gets replaced this essentially a new(ish) machine. It makes me happy to have something that wasn't built for obsolescence and is actually worth fixing in spite of the high cost of parts. I wish there were cars like this.
#54
G
GrumpyL5030
G
GrumpyL5030
I was wrong about that exmark not having an hour meter. It DOES. just noticed it last night as I put the battery back on. This machine was new in 2003 I think. Right now it clocks 1900.3 hours with very few minor repairs. I probably looked at the clock the first year we had it. We just do a top to bottom tune up every spring when it comes outa the barn.No hour meter on this rig. Pretty much used 3 hours twice a week all summer for 4 months since new. The engine is a 2 cyl.Kohler command 25hp. The only thing I've done with the engine besides regular maintenance is to get rid of the capacitor timing advance garbage and convert it to the old-school ignition timing. It runs great again now. (Knocking on wood now).
#55
C
CyrilO
C
CyrilO
I traded my 42Hey guys, so I know there is a lot of argument on this topic and I know there are factors that can vary this greatly. Having this in mind, I would like to get some numbers on how long commercial equipment lasts. For instance, right now I have a Ferris with a 26HP Vangaurd and Hydro Gear 4400 Transaxles. I am looking at a Simplicity (made by Ferris and Briggs) that is a step down from this machine. It has a 27HP Briggs and Stratton with Hydro Gear 3400 Transaxles. I am interested in this machine because a lot of the parts including blades are interchangeable between the two. This machine is just clearly a step down from the Vanguard Ferris setup I have. So I would love to hear your guys feedback on these machines too.
However, what I really want to know is how many hours do these machines realistically see? I have seen some people say they start wearing out around 1,000 and others say they can go for thousands if taken care of properly. The advice I was given is after the machine is old and tired and either the engine or transaxles give out to start looking for a new machine. I think that is probably good advice.
I wanted this to be a general discussion. Trying to figure out how long they last and if anyone knows about these 'generic sticker' Briggs engines. When I bought my Ferris I was sold on a Vanguard because of their reliability over other engines. It does run great. Anyway I do not think me and this guy are going to be able to come to an agreement because he is way too high on price. He is asking $8,000 for it and the machine is basically brand new. I have not had a chance to speak with him yet.
Last spring I traded my 42" Cub for a 60" Gizmo. Says it has 6689 hrs on it, Run like a top. I cut 3 acres a week. It sheared a metal stake holding one of my apple trees. The only problem I have, is if I turn off the PTO while the lawnmower is moving the belt slips off.I would say that 95% or more of people in the commercial mowing business change their oil regularly. I know a lot of people in the business and they are anal about it, as am I. I do not put that many hours on my machine anymore but I change the oil at least at the beginning of each season. I also change the transaxles fluid every few years or so too. If I was using it more often I would be doing it more often.
What you are talking about is residential homeowners. That is why manufacturers nowadays are sealing everything up and making it maintenance free. I think the new engines that have a filter prefilled with a quart of oil (or whatever) they are, are pretty moronic. However, if you can convince people to change those out I guess it is better than not doing anything at all. The are 'throw away' machines which I find ridiculous. You pay thousands of dollars for them and use them until they stop working and pretty much toss them or put "free" on them out by the curb. For the record I would never do this. I find it mind boggling that people do.
Anyway what I was sort of looking for here is "Hey I had/have a Ferris with the same setup and I am over 1,500 hours right now". Because people say these machines can easily get thousands of hours but I never see it. If you go look at classifieds for them they rarely have over 1,000 hours and I was wondering if it was because they are still relatively new machines or you are getting close to their failure rate.
#56
H
Hexa Fox
So as luck would have it, I just had my first spindle failure on my Ferris. I have replaced a lot of spindles over the years but never on a commercial piece of equipment and never rebuilt them. I was wondering if you had an opinion on greasing them versus modifying them? For instance, everyone is talking about cutting a hole in the middle of the housing and adding a Zerk fitting. Then removing the inner bearing seals so grease can flow freely to the now open bearings. Everyone else is free to chime in as well.
H
Hexa Fox
Hey Bert,Steep hills are not a big problem provided that the engine is running full speed
Running up steep slopes using engine speed to control the ground speed is the problem .
As for the steering wheel cub , yes they& the similar Toro are more stable on slopes because the front casters are controlled so they can not go sideways like other brands do .
So as luck would have it, I just had my first spindle failure on my Ferris. I have replaced a lot of spindles over the years but never on a commercial piece of equipment and never rebuilt them. I was wondering if you had an opinion on greasing them versus modifying them? For instance, everyone is talking about cutting a hole in the middle of the housing and adding a Zerk fitting. Then removing the inner bearing seals so grease can flow freely to the now open bearings. Everyone else is free to chime in as well.
#57
H
Hexa Fox
Exactly, most of the larger machines have the same brand Tuff Torque (or whatever) or Hydro Gear transmissions that are larger and stronger. I think you should still use common sense but as long as you are only pulling around what they are rated for I do not think you are going to eat any serious life off them. The reason it doesn't make sense is on the smaller garden tractors that frequent pulling stuff usually have sealed transaxles that are smaller.
H
Hexa Fox
Your statement makes no sense. There are plenty of videos from Wright mowers talking about the 2" receiver hitch on the back of their ZXL and ZXT zero turn mowers. In the video, Wright clearly says they are rated to pull 500lbs but they have tested them to pull much more. Each hydro manufacturer specifies a torque rating and a load rating of their pump / motor or transaxle assembly. There are plenty of heavy-duty ZTRs with hitches rated to pull similar, and I wouldn't expect any ill effects from towing within the rated amount with the engine up to speed.
Exactly, most of the larger machines have the same brand Tuff Torque (or whatever) or Hydro Gear transmissions that are larger and stronger. I think you should still use common sense but as long as you are only pulling around what they are rated for I do not think you are going to eat any serious life off them. The reason it doesn't make sense is on the smaller garden tractors that frequent pulling stuff usually have sealed transaxles that are smaller.