How many hours do machines really last?

[Hexa Fox]

Hey guys, so I know there is a lot of argument on this topic and I know there are factors that can vary this greatly. Having this in mind, I would like to get some numbers on how long commercial equipment lasts. For instance, right now I have a Ferris with a 26HP Vangaurd and Hydro Gear 4400 Transaxles. I am looking at a Simplicity (made by Ferris and Briggs) that is a step down from this machine. It has a 27HP Briggs and Stratton with Hydro Gear 3400 Transaxles. I am interested in this machine because a lot of the parts including blades are interchangeable between the two. This machine is just clearly a step down from the Vanguard Ferris setup I have. So I would love to hear your guys feedback on these machines too.

However, what I really want to know is how many hours do these machines realistically see? I have seen some people say they start wearing out around 1,000 and others say they can go for thousands if taken care of properly. The advice I was given is after the machine is old and tired and either the engine or transaxles give out to start looking for a new machine. I think that is probably good advice.

I wanted this to be a general discussion. Trying to figure out how long they last and if anyone knows about these 'generic sticker' Briggs engines. When I bought my Ferris I was sold on a Vanguard because of their reliability over other engines. It does run great. Anyway I do not think me and this guy are going to be able to come to an agreement because he is way too high on price. He is asking $8,000 for it and the machine is basically brand new. I have not had a chance to speak with him yet.

 

[Rivets]

Absolutely NO WAY to say even approximately how long they will last. Way, way too many variables to give reliable GUESSES, which anyone who would post numbers would be doing. If you want to rely on someone’s GUESS, that would be up to you.

 

[slomo]

Hard to say, most people don't even change the oil. Hour meters can be changed out.

 

[ILENGINE]

Hard to say, most people don't even change the oil. Hour meters can be changed out.

Or in some cases the internal battery in the hour meter quits causing no display.

 

[Hexa Fox]

Hard to say, most people don't even change the oil. Hour meters can be changed out.

I would say that 95% or more of people in the commercial mowing business change their oil regularly. I know a lot of people in the business and they are anal about it, as am I. I do not put that many hours on my machine anymore but I change the oil at least at the beginning of each season. I also change the transaxles fluid every few years or so too. If I was using it more often I would be doing it more often.

What you are talking about is residential homeowners. That is why manufacturers nowadays are sealing everything up and making it maintenance free. I think the new engines that have a filter prefilled with a quart of oil (or whatever) they are, are pretty moronic. However, if you can convince people to change those out I guess it is better than not doing anything at all. The are 'throw away' machines which I find ridiculous. You pay thousands of dollars for them and use them until they stop working and pretty much toss them or put "free" on them out by the curb. For the record I would never do this. I find it mind boggling that people do.

Anyway what I was sort of looking for here is "Hey I had/have a Ferris with the same setup and I am over 1,500 hours right now". Because people say these machines can easily get thousands of hours but I never see it. If you go look at classifieds for them they rarely have over 1,000 hours and I was wondering if it was because they are still relatively new machines or you are getting close to their failure rate.

 

[bertsmobile1]

As per the other comments it is the little things that kill mowers and in particular ZTR's
Eg;- dropping the engine speed low when driving up the ramp into the truck/trailer can wipe 1000 hrs or more from the hydros .
Failing to blow down the hydros every day so they cool eficiently can wipe off hundreds of hours .
Running a worn belt on the drives can wipe a thousand hours off the left drive in under a year of use
Ditto for not keeping the tension arm well lubbed .
Ditto for not changing the hydro oil & filters
Then there is the terrain being mowed
Got a customer who has a Walker used for mowing a cemetry , two hours a day six days a week he had it when I bought this business 11 years ago , I service it twice a year and it shows no signs of wearing out to date .
The mowers he uses to mow street verges with are pretty well worn out in 2 years .
Very few hour meters will run for longer than 4 years or 1500 hrs got a stack of them that have been stuck between 1000 & 2000 hours for years .
Most of my pros do 6 month services and do not give a wrinkled rats rectum about actual hours .
And did I mention keeping blades sharp ?
The customer who swaps them over between each mow gets 3 to 4 years out of a set of spindle bearings.
Same mower with another customer who just runs them till the flutes break off does 2 sets of spindle bearings a year .

 

[Hexa Fox]

As per the other comments it is the little things that kill mowers and in particular ZTR's
Eg;- dropping the engine speed low when driving up the ramp into the truck/trailer can wipe 1000 hrs or more from the hydros .
Failing to blow down the hydros every day so they cool eficiently can wipe off hundreds of hours .
Running a worn belt on the drives can wipe a thousand hours off the left drive in under a year of use
Ditto for not keeping the tension arm well lubbed .
Ditto for not changing the hydro oil & filters
Then there is the terrain being mowed
Got a customer who has a Walker used for mowing a cemetry , two hours a day six days a week he had it when I bought this business 11 years ago , I service it twice a year and it shows no signs of wearing out to date .
The mowers he uses to mow street verges with are pretty well worn out in 2 years .
Very few hour meters will run for longer than 4 years or 1500 hrs got a stack of them that have been stuck between 1000 & 2000 hours for years .
Most of my pros do 6 month services and do not give a wrinkled rats rectum about actual hours .
And did I mention keeping blades sharp ?
The customer who swaps them over between each mow gets 3 to 4 years out of a set of spindle bearings.
Same mower with another customer who just runs them till the flutes break off does 2 sets of spindle bearings a year .

Yeah it is tough to keep blades sharp where I live. I live near Harpers Ferry and the "yards" we have here are pretty much weeds. I try to pickup any sticks that will take life off the blades but still end up hitting all kinds of twigs and little stuff. It is just inevitable. I do my best to keep my blades sharp and balanced. I try to swap them out at least twice a year.

I have always wanted a Walker mower or a Grasshopper D900 series. I just think they might be (especially the Grasshopper) a little too big for my applications. I have also been looking at a Ventrac 3400Y that is very similar to these machines. The thing that sucks is Hydro Gear discontinued the transaxles that went on the machines and as a result Ventrac decided to discontinue the machines. So getting service and parts are only going to get more difficult as time goes on.

 

[RayMcD]

Yeah it is tough to keep blades sharp where I live. I live near Harpers Ferry and the "yards" we have here are pretty much weeds. I try to pickup any sticks that will take life off the blades but still end up hitting all kinds of twigs and little stuff. It is just inevitable. I do my best to keep my blades sharp and balanced. I try to swap them out at least twice a year.

I have always wanted a Walker mower or a Grasshopper D900 series. I just think they might be (especially the Grasshopper) a little too big for my applications. I have also been looking at a Ventrac 3400Y that is very similar to these machines. The thing that sucks is Hydro Gear discontinued the transaxles that went on the machines and as a result Ventrac decided to discontinue the machines. So getting service and parts are only going to get more difficult as time goes on.

Sir, please explain what you mean> blow down the hydros? thanks r

 

[7394]

blow down the hydros

I'm thinking Bert means to blow off the dirt/debris on the hydros after each use. A "Dirt blanket" left on them will cause incredible heat internally, & that is BAD.

 

[Tiger Small Engine]

Are we talking about life of engine, life of hydros, or life of mower chassis?
As a general rule, with good consistent maintenance on a Briggs and Stratton engine, a 1000 hours is about right. A Vanguard might be twice that or 2000 hours. That is changing oil and filter every 50 hours, changing/checking/cleaning air filter(s), and making sure engine and cooling fins under engine shroud are free from debris.
Since few people consistently do maintenance, your mileage may and will vary.
If you change oil and filter on hydros as per manufacturer recommendations (250-1000 hours depending on hydro), then they will often last a lot longer than engine, maybe double or triple the hours.
Life of chassis on a commercial zero turn such as a Ferris or Scag is rated at approximately 5000 hours. Theoretically you could just keep rebuilding or repowering the engine on same chassis.

I'm thinking Bert means to blow off the dirt/debris on the hydros after each use. A "Dirt blanket" left on them will cause incredible heat internally, & that is BAD.