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Has anyone had to deal with Honda? I am in argument with them about my HRN 216 that blew up. I have owned it a little less than 2 years. Long Story Short is I took it to the dealer, they diagnosed it as a rod bolt coming loose. Honda asked them for pictures and they said the failure of the Engine is due to lack of lubrication. I am a Mechanic at an Acura Dealership so I have worked for Honda for the past 11 years and they said the best they can do for my loyalty is $200 off a new mower. These are the pictures That were sent to them

If you still have the engine write up a warranty repair diagnosis as you would for a car engine
Make note of the absence of aluminium build up on the journal and the absence of any discolourization which would be associated with the heat generated by running the engine dry.
Remember Honda make their determination based upon what the dealer submitted to them .
If you have company letterhead then do it on that
Include in your report that you believe the dealer has made errors as the broken bolt can clearly be seen. still done up
Lots of photos would also help

I have done second opinions for customers where the dealer has pretended to be on their side but was just angeling for another sale or totally incompetant .
The fact I am a metallurgist probebly helped but in every case the company sent their rep around & concurred with my diagnosis .

bertsmobile1 said:

If you still have the engine write up a warranty repair diagnosis as you would for a car engine
Make note of the absence of aluminium build up on the journal and the absence of any discolourization which would be associated with the heat generated by running the engine dry.
Remember Honda make their determination based upon what the dealer submitted to them .
If you have company letterhead then do it on that
Include in your report that you believe the dealer has made errors as the broken bolt can clearly be seen. still done up
Lots of photos would also help

I have done second opinions for customers where the dealer has pretended to be on their side but was just angeling for another sale or totally incompetant .
The fact I am a metallurgist probebly helped but in every case the company sent their rep around & concurred with my diagnosis .

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I have talked to the case manager for Honda and they are ABSOLUTELY refusing any kind of warranty. Even saying the dealer is wrong.

Keithf1113 said:

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That’s the Email from Honda

I believe what Honda is going is the damage of the crankshaft journal. There is a lot markings on it that I don't normally see on most engines.

StarTech said:

I believe what Honda is going is the damage of the crankshaft journal. There is a lot markings on it that I don't normally see on most engines.
View attachment 61369

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This picture was sent after they made their decision.

Next step is a small claims case
Threaten to sue
Most universities or trade colleges will do a failure analysis for a small fee
I have done hundreds of these
With a cheap mower is is not worth the effort or cost but for a Honda it might be
We used to give them to the students then one of the teachers would write up the results
A micrograph of a section through the con rod will show heat damage if there was no lubrication and grain growth if it was really excessive
While the scoring on the journal does suggest lack of lubrication, there is no oxide burn

I’ve mentioned getting a Lawyer involved and the Case Manager pretty much laughed at me. And said if I do the $200 offer is off the table. The Case manager also said that he has no supervisor and is the only person I can talk to

I’m going to be the bad guy here, but everything I see leads me to a lack of lubrication. Definitely aluminum transfer to the crankshaft rod journal. A loose rod bolt would not lead to overheating to cause this. Overheating of the bearing could cause heat to buildup on the rod bearing, causing expansion in the rod, allowing the bolts to loosen. That being said, I would like to see the mag journal and bearing surfaces. Could I be wrong, yes, because there was one time I was proven wrong a couple of weeks ago.

To make an unequivocal evaluation I would need to chop up the rod & look at the grain structure at the edge
You see an effect much like striping a lawn where the edges of the grains are all deformed in the direction of rotation where there has been no lubrication
There should also be significant discolouration on the cap and less on the rod. commonly called blueing .
If the bolt was loose / broken from new then the cap would not have been running true so would have more wear at the joint edge than at the rest of the bearing surface .
There would also be hammering damage in the middle of the rod where it got hammered into the journal every time the engine fired
I do not see evidence of overheating in the photos although to make a meaning full diagnosis a lot better photos with proper lighting would be needed
Without doing the calculations there should not have been sufficient force to shear the rod bolt and I would need some photos of the fracture surface to determine the mode of failure
While happy snaps ( well unhappy snaps actually ) are fine for the forum & face book they are of no use for an engineer who needs to see details accurately and in particular the real colours and clean dry surfaces so there is no reflection & distortions due to oil on the surface .

I have been involved in litigation where it was eventually determined that the motorcycle in this case had been run without oil in it prior to being delivered to the new owner
I have also been involved a lot of cases where the item had been run with no oil / low oil by the owner , then filled with fresh oil in order to make a false warranty claim

So the first question is was the mower delivered to you new in the box or ready to run assembled & supposedly checked by the dealer .
If the former then get a engineering / metallurgical examination of the mower and brief your attorney as there can be no arguement about it being defective from the factory thus Honda's liability.
Legal system vary but down here the full costs of the examinations are paid by the looser plus extra for inconvienance & anguish so check that first .

However if it was delivered ready to mow then your claim will be against Honda & the dealer because the dealer could have been responsible for the damage .
These are near impossible to prosecute as or instance your mower could have been a display model and 1000 kids could have pulled the starter rope with the engine being dry .

So saying these pictures are insufficient to determine the mode of failure, then Honda should also have the same reaction to the pictures and ask for specific pictures as bertsmobil1 has. It sounds like Honda has possibly made a premature decision in their favor. Best of luck going forward.

Rivets said:

I’m going to be the bad guy here, but everything I see leads me to a lack of lubrication. Definitely aluminum transfer to the crankshaft rod journal. A loose rod bolt would not lead to overheating to cause this. Overheating of the bearing could cause heat to buildup on the rod bearing, causing expansion in the rod, allowing the bolts to loosen. That being said, I would like to see the mag journal and bearing surfaces. Could I be wrong, yes, because there was one time I was proven wrong a couple of weeks ago.

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It’s all good. I just want feedback to see if I have a case here. I don’t know much about Mower engines, but I have seen PLENTY of v6 Honda / Acura engines come

considering that I have been waiting almost a year for some Acura parts, I have zero confidence that Honda is being run by people who care about their image any longer. The scoring on the crankshaft implies something was going on with lubrication or contamination. The thrust surfaces show some color.

sgkent said:

considering that I have been waiting almost a year for some Acura parts, I have zero confidence that Honda is being run by people who care about their image any longer. The scoring on the crankshaft implies something was going on with lubrication or contamination. The thrust surfaces show some color.

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That is a problem with the world supply model of production.
In order to make things to a disposable price parts are sourced from all over the place
many parts are unique o there will only be one supplier on the planet so if that supplier can not supply the maker is stuffed, particular if we are talking about a superceeded or obsolete part
So the tooling up costs is may times larger than the total income that will be derrived from the part .
I have been waiting for injectors & a mass air flow meter from Mitsubishi since March 2021 so right now I am accumulating the parts to drop a 4L GMH V6 in there that was fitted to the local GM vehicles .
Honda is in the same situation, some parts will be near impossible to get
B & S down here now run their warehouse as a logistics depot so when a part runs out they wait till there isa large back order before purchasing fresh stock so that when they pay for the shipment most if not all of the purchase price is already covered by the parts on back order
Not good for the customer but very profitable for the warehouse.
The cost of long term parts supply can quickly exceed the entire profit from the entire sales of a model.
This was shown to the Consumer Affairs tribunal down here way back when all of the vehicle companies challenged the 10 year manditory parts support laws.
The outcome of this is it got reduced to 6 years , which funny enough is the duration of government vehicle lease contracts .