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Help!!!! Troy-Bilt

#1

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

Okay guys, I need some help.
This is driving me crazy.
I took the deck off of my Troy-Bilt Pony to change out both blade pulleys.
While I had the deck off I changed the upper and lower belts.
I tried to crank the mower to see how it ran with the new belts.
Well, I couldn't get it to start up.
I could turn the top with my hand but it stops when I try to go clockwise.
Starter is good.
So I changed out the carburetor and the solenoid back by the battery apartment. Oh and a new battery.
I just don't know what's wrong with it.
Thanks in advance
17.5hp 500cc 42"cut
model #13an77kg011


#2

B

Bertrrr

So it does not turn over ? or doesn't start ? two different problems for the help you need


#3

H

hlw49

Check the valve clearance. While you are at it check the compression release. Turn the engine over and watch the bottom rocker to see if it bumps off just before it reaches top dead center.


#4

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

Turn the key on and it just click.
In order to check the valve compression, that means you would have to turn it by hand and my won't turn clockwise.


#5

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

did you raise the mower, in any way, to do your work?


#6

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

Yeah, i had it raised most of the time. I took the deck out and changed both upper and lower belts.
I left the deck off


#7

B

Bertrrr

Will it roll 360 degrees in any direction ?


#8

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

Yeah, it will roll 360 in any direction.
I just took the valve cover off.
I turned it by hand counterclockwise and then clockwise and the bottom isnot moving.


#9

B

Bertrrr

By the bottom are you referring to the crankshaft ? is the piston going up and down ? , Pull the spark plug and watch your piston to see if it's moving, it should roll very easy with no compression , you can put a rod through the plug hole and watch it move with the piston , if no movement you got major problems internal.


#10

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

Bottom, i meant Bottom valve. It would not move up and down.
Top valve looks good.
The spark plug has been out the whole time.
Internal, meaning what could it be.


#11

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

I hope you can see the video. I'm sending it.


#12

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

Bigdaddy's Craftsman said:
I hope you can see the video. I'm sending it.
Click to expand...
It's my Camshaft buddy.


#13

StarTech

StarTech

If the lower (intake) valve rocker is not then you got a serious problem. This would explain why you can't get pass the top of compression stroke with a lot effort as you are fighting the engine full compression.

Being an Intek single cylinder engine the lower push rod is like broken or severely worn. Another possible is a camshaft lobe problem but I have intake lobes worn that much.

Or it can be that rocker adjustment is that far off and the valve stem cap has fallen off. Also check the rocker stud to see it simply came loose and back out that much.

The valve clearances normally .003-.005 Intake and .005-.007 Exhaust.

Otherwords start with checking the easy to get to valve train components before opening the crankcase. As it might there instead of internal problem.

When come intake camshaft problems it can any from ACR broken, worn or loose lobe, to major damage of multiple components.


#14

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

What would happen if the stem on the exhaust valve dropped inside?


#15

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

The stem dropped

Attachments





#16

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

Bigdaddy's Craftsman said:
The stem dropped
Click to expand...
Did the valve put a hole in the top of the piston. Did it damage the valve, valve seat, or valve guide.


#17

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

Did it🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

Attachments







#18

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

Bigdaddy's Craftsman said:
Did it🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Click to expand...


#19

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

I believe so.

Attachments







#20

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

She's done.:mad:


#21

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

Bigdaddy's Craftsman

You don't think i could get a head gasket and a new piston.


#22

ILENGINE

ILENGINE

What I see is damage to the exhaust valve seat and a broken valve. Also damage to the head of the intake valve with the possibility of the intake valve being bent. Also there are holes in the piston with the potential of the rod being bent. So I would with any potential of doing proper repair would require a new head and a new piston and rod.


#23

Tiger Small Engine

Tiger Small Engine

ILENGINE said:
What I see is damage to the exhaust valve seat and a broken valve. Also damage to the head of the intake valve with the possibility of the intake valve being bent. Also there are holes in the piston with the potential of the rod being bent. So I would with any potential of doing proper repair would require a new head and a new piston and rod.
Click to expand...
How much do you think this mower is worth? What is the model number of mower? Age?
Will you be doing the work yourself? What model number of engine? For example, if the mower is worth $500 and you spend $500 in parts and several hours of labor, that is a judgement call and up to you, but probably not worth it.


#24

S

slomo

Have to ask. Are the cooling fins clean and open? Little late now I guess.
1730297404602.jpeg


#25

W

WisconsinFrank

Perhaps the valve keeper dropped off and allowed the valve to drop into the combustion chamber. On the next revolution - lunched the valve/piston/piston rod.

I just did this with a 17 hp Briggs. It cost a lot to repair but it is running fine now. Cheaper than a new machine, so I did the repairs.


#26

S

Sonny1980

im not expert but if when you turn the key and it just clicks theres a good chance there good be a short in the wiring connections somehow.. and if the motor doesnt turn and locks the emergency brake or clutch could be on..maybe in the way you reassembled it.. ive had John Deere push mowers that would do that if you turn it off witht eh clutch engaged it locks the mower. and by the looks of that mower id clean that debris out of there. if you turned the mower off with teh clutch on that is it could still be in the on position


#27

J

jviews12

Since I assume it started and ran OK before this all happened. Since you did NOT touch the engine, I must assume either a belt problem, or possibly oil and hydro lock issue, with the latter unlikely. This is 100% based on your initial statement. Yes I would be frustrated too. Good luck. I cannot believe the engine went "bad" because a belt was changed, this just doesn't happen.

SORRY FOLKS, missed many other postings o this. never mind.


#28

F

fiscokid

Check the ground cable


#29

G

gregboggess

Bigdaddy's Craftsman said:
Bottom, i meant Bottom valve. It would not move up and down.
Top valve looks good.
The spark plug has been out the whole time.
Internal, meaning what could it be.
Click to expand...
Sounds like the exhaust valve guide has moved.


#30

O

oldntired55

broken camshaft??


#31

O

oldntired55

or stripped crankshaft gear where the key is..


#32

F

Freddie21

Loosen the valve rocker and pully the push rod out. Is it bent. If not, reinsert it and holding pressure against the top, turn the engine by have and see if it goes up and down. If so, reinstall the rocker and set the valve lash at .005" just a bit after TDC. One thing to check after you get the valves running correctly, is to check your belt routing. Especially if you have the stacked pulley in the rear. It's very easy to get the 2 belts on the same side of the center wall.


#33

K

kjonxx

belt not in the guides correctly, since no mention of eng problem at the begining


#34

F

fiscokid

Try the simplest first. If does seem to reason that changing the belts would cause a major overhaul. Does the starter turn the motor over? Does the motor turn over and not start. Check for spark.


#35

J

Johner

Bigdaddy's Craftsman said:
Yeah, it will roll 360 in any direction.
I just took the valve cover off.
I turned it by hand counterclockwise and then clockwise and the bottom isnot moving.
Click to expand...
Check the routing of the belts. Charge the battery, anything less then 12 volts starter will not work.


#36

K

kjonxx

Johner said:
Check the routing of the belts. Charge the battery, anything less then 12 volts starter will not work.
Click to expand...
sheared flywheel key if top turns but not bottom. pull shroud off and verify if crank is turning with flywheel, if so then crank is broke, or you lost key on bottom pully if you pulled it off.


#37

B

bobL

did you check to see if you moved one of the interlock switches or loosened a connection, since you were doing belts, I would look at the obvious stuff that could have been bumped or hit during that before I suspect the engine. If it's more than one it's harder, but you can bypass each one and see if it turns over. Or you could just jump the starter motor and see if it turns over.


#38

A

AtRo Racing

Bigdaddy's Craftsman said:
Okay guys, I need some help.
This is driving me crazy.
I took the deck off of my Troy-Bilt Pony to change out both blade pulleys.
While I had the deck off I changed the upper and lower belts.
I tried to crank the mower to see how it ran with the new belts.
Well, I couldn't get it to start up.
I could turn the top with my hand but it stops when I try to go clockwise.
Starter is good.
So I changed out the carburetor and the solenoid back by the battery apartment. Oh and a new battery.
I just don't know what's wrong with it.
Thanks in advance
17.5hp 500cc 42"cut
model #13an77kg011
Click to expand...
Are you aware that there is a safety switch that keeps the engine from starting if the blade switch or blade lever is not completely off. Are you sitting on the seat when you try to start it? Unless you sit on the seat it will never start as these is a safety switch in the seat.


#39

A

andrewslarge

AtRo Racing said:
Are you aware that there is a safety switch that keeps the engine from starting if the blade switch or blade lever is not completely off. Are you sitting on the seat when you try to start it? Unless you sit on the seat it will never start as these is a safety switch in the seat.
Click to expand...
That’s exactly what I was thinking. Safety switch


#40

K

kjonxx

Sounds like sheared flywheel key if bottom doesn't turn with flywheel, Could one of the magnets come loose, saw that already, explains the lockup in one direction.


#41

F

flyingace43

check the camshaft they have been known to bend.


#42

G

Gord Baker

Bigdaddy's Craftsman said:
Okay guys, I need some help.
This is driving me crazy.
I took the deck off of my Troy-Bilt Pony to change out both blade pulleys.
While I had the deck off I changed the upper and lower belts.
I tried to crank the mower to see how it ran with the new belts.
Well, I couldn't get it to start up.
I could turn the top with my hand but it stops when I try to go clockwise.
Starter is good.
So I changed out the carburetor and the solenoid back by the battery apartment. Oh and a new battery.
I just don't know what's wrong with it.
Thanks in advance
17.5hp 500cc 42"cut
model #13an77kg011
Click to expand...
When an engine won't start, I try Starting Fluid. If it fires and dies, likely a Fuel Problem. If it does not fire, likely electrical - Coil and or Spark plug.


#43

R

rhkraft

Confusion, Can you turn the engine over multiple times with the spark plug out while turning it by hand? If you can, install the spark plug and try cranking with the starter. If the starter turns but stops at full compression, or turns really hard, you have an exhaust valve adjustment problem. If it does not pull through, put a braker bar wrench on the pulley nut at the bottom of the crank shaft, or on the flywheel nut, and try to pull it through. If pulls hard but does pull through, it confirms the valve adjustment requirement. If it is stuck, you got a big problem. The exhaust valve adjustment is critical, like .005 or less, while intake can be .0008 or .0009. Check your engine guide for the exact clearances. The close tolerance allows the exhaust valve to open a little just before top dead canter and acts as a compression release to allow the engine to turn over more easily and is easier on the starter. These newer engines have higher compression. If the exhaust valve adjustment is too much the extra cam bump won't open the valve. There will be no compression release causing the engine turn over really hard. It is normally never the starter. Good luck


#44

R

rhkraft

rhkraft said:
Confusion, Can you turn the engine over multiple times with the spark plug out while turning it by hand? If you can, install the spark plug and try cranking with the starter. If the starter turns but stops at full compression, or turns really hard, you have an exhaust valve adjustment problem. If it does not pull through, put a braker bar wrench on the pulley nut at the bottom of the crank shaft, or on the flywheel nut, and try to pull it through. If pulls hard but does pull through, it confirms the valve adjustment requirement. If it is stuck, you got a big problem. The exhaust valve adjustment is critical, like .005 or less, while intake can be .0008 or .0009. Check your engine guide for the exact clearances. The close tolerance allows the exhaust valve to open a little just before top dead canter and acts as a compression release to allow the engine to turn over more easily and is easier on the starter. These newer engines have higher compression. If the exhaust valve adjustment is too much the extra cam bump won't open the valve. There will be no compression release causing the engine turn over really hard. It is normally never the starter. Good luck
Click to expand...


#45

D

DinosaurMike

Folks, the OP found his problem in post 15.
Why would this happen at the same time he changed drive belts?


#46

F

farmerdave1954

Murphy's Law, 4th axiom. "If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. First corollary: If there is a worse time for something to go wrong, it will happen then."

Contrary to popular claims, coincidences DO happen. Unless the OP is lying about not doing something to the mower besides just removing the deck, this appears to be one.


#47

T

TobyU

Bigdaddy's Craftsman said:
Okay guys, I need some help.
This is driving me crazy.
I took the deck off of my Troy-Bilt Pony to change out both blade pulleys.
While I had the deck off I changed the upper and lower belts.
I tried to crank the mower to see how it ran with the new belts.
Well, I couldn't get it to start up.
I could turn the top with my hand but it stops when I try to go clockwise.
Starter is good.
So I changed out the carburetor and the solenoid back by the battery apartment. Oh and a new battery.
I just don't know what's wrong with it.
Thanks in advance
17.5hp 500cc 42"cut
model #13an77kg011
Click to expand...
I haven't read every post in this thread but I can tell you that it is highly, highly, highly and I mean again highly unlikely for a valve to drop on one of these engines unless somebody has been monkeying around in the valve cover and with stuff they shouldn't be messing with.

I saw in a couple of posts you commented about not being able to turn the engine over but then later said you had to plug out the whole time.
Then it sounded like you were giving some information about things you had saw or checked out that you would have had to have the valve cover off to see.
My best advice for people is always to get information from others (and hopefully it will be good information and these people know what they're talking about) BEFORE you start tearing into anything or taking anything apart and also before you start throwing parts at a problem which is what so many people do.

I have worked on thousands of these engines and I can't ever recall a time for a valve dropped on its own and cause any damage.
If one of these is running properly which it seems yours was before you pulled the deck off to do whatever to the spindles, that certainly shouldn't have made a valve keeper want to come out and drop a valve.
If it ever happens naturally on one of these engines it just loses the compression and dies because the valves are horizontal and the compression wants to blow them closed and soon as the keeper pops out and the retainer moves up you will get a valve that has no pressure to stay close so you'll typically lose compression or it will been to push rod from the rocker arms being out of alignment and stuff like that.
Regardless it will just lose power and run poorly or just stop running and it's highly unlikely to suck that valve or for it to end up far enough moved in the guide that the piston could ever hit It or break It off. Even if it moved a little bit the piston would lightly smack it and just make it close.
So it's hard for me to picture what actually happened with yours I just don't think it's common at all but some people are magnets for odd fluke things so anything is possible.

At this point, if you haven't fixed it already, you would be far better off just to go buy a good used running engine or even a mower which you can pick up for a hundred bucks or less that won't start and run or has a blown transmission and won't move on Craigslist or marketplace that has a similar engine to yours so you can transplant it.
Remember that over 80% of these lawn mowers out there that won't run and the people can't get to start only need the carburetor cleaned out.
It's simple enough to check this when you go that it's mechanically sound by taking a battery and jumper cables for a booster and a spray bottle of gas or a can of carb cleaner. (I don't even own a can of starting fluid and won't use it)
If you spray some car cleaner and the intake and crank the engine over with the key in the on position even if you have to jump it all the way straight to the starter, if it runs for 2 or 3 seconds on the fuel you give it then it's mechanically sound so there's your donor.

Just buying a piston and the bottom sump gasket (which if you buy Briggs I believe now only comes with the bolts for about $29) it's going to cost you as much as a replacement engine and a lot more time.

Even if you're doing your own work it is pretty much NEVER cost-effective to do any internal engine repair work when it involves the piston or rod.
It's barely worth doing if it's the camshaft for a busted ACR because buying a good or hopefully good Briggs camshaft will cost you $80 to $100 plus you need that gasket unless you can reuse yours but you can find some aftermarket gaskets now for about 10 bucks.
So you can get another engine that already runs for about 100 -$125 so it's close to being a little better.
But if it's a piston or a rod or run low on oil and smeared a bunch of aluminum onto the crankshaft, it's just not worth it and not cost-effective.
Now head repairs and valve train are not internal engine and most all of those can be fixed without even buying a new head which is the Briggs official repair but they're just selling you another lousy designed and lousy manufactured head to replace the one that just failed so I just fix the old ones and they're better than a new one in most cases.

Only if you have a junk pile of mowers with several of these engines laying around too scavenge good parts from is it cost effective to do but it's still not time effective.
Some people, of course, who tinker don't worry about this.
Will you do it as a professional shop speed is really of the utmost importance.


#48

T

TobyU

farmerdave1954 said:
Murphy's Law, 4th axiom. "If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. First corollary: If there is a worse time for something to go wrong, it will happen then."

Contrary to popular claims, coincidences DO happen. Unless the OP is lying about not doing something to the mower besides just removing the deck, this appears to be one.
Click to expand...
I have a feeling we don't have all the information or if we would have been there as a fly in the wall watching we would have spotted something that we would have been concerned about or said you shouldn't do.
Sure, sometimes weird things happen without any good reason but when you've worked on thousands of these engines and it's not a common or recurring situation, it just probably isn't going to happen without somebody doing something to cause it.


#49

H

heyinway

Bigdaddy's Craftsman said:
Okay guys, I need some help.
This is driving me crazy.
I took the deck off of my Troy-Bilt Pony to change out both blade pulleys.
While I had the deck off I changed the upper and lower belts.
I tried to crank the mower to see how it ran with the new belts.
Well, I couldn't get it to start up.
I could turn the top with my hand but it stops when I try to go clockwise.
Starter is good.
So I changed out the carburetor and the solenoid back by the battery apartment. Oh and a new battery.
I just don't know what's wrong with it.
Thanks in advance
17.5hp 500cc 42"cut
model #13an77kg011
Click to expand...
Engine hydro locked.... Remove spark plugs, crank engine. Crank until no more gas out of spark plug holes. Gas filled engine. Drain oil/gas, flush, refill with the oil.


#50

Tiger Small Engine

Tiger Small Engine

heyinway said:
Engine hydro locked.... Remove spark plugs, crank engine. Crank until no more gas out of spark plug holes. Gas filled engine. Drain oil/gas, flush, refill with the oil.
Click to expand...
This entire post is a great example of a few things. Diagnostic skills versus shooting in the dark. Listening and comprehension versus throwing parts at it. Experience versus “maybe this will fix it.”


#51

J

JimP2014

I don't see how there's a relationship between the mower deck and the problem you're having did the engine actually run okay before you messed around with the pulleys secondly it sounds like if you can't see the rocker arm moving then something happened to that push rod assuming I'm thinking of the right type of Engine. I think you're saying the valve on the bottom you can't see the rocker arm moving at all.
Jim


#52

A

Air4Dave

ILENGINE said:
She's done.:mad:
Click to expand...
I agree with Ilengine - the engine is done. I was just reading all your posts and replies...Looks like the valve spring broke, causing the valve to drop into the engine and through the piston. It looks like it scored the cylinder wall as well. If so, the repair will be a new engine unless you want to go through the hassle of honing the cylinder and inserting a sleeve. Since this is a fairly old post, I assume you've already replaced the engine?


#53

S

slomo

fiscokid said:
Check the ground cable
Click to expand...
For???

Oh I get it. It got sucked inside the engine. Case closed LOL.


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