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My deck is REALLY loud when the blades are engaged and I pretty sure it's the pulley bearings or spindle bearings. I would like to change them all...do all the bearings have bearings? Just trying to formulate a parts list before I get a chance to pull the mower out and look things over.

Well go to the Ariens/ gravely web site & download the parts manual
Each spindle has 2 bearings that are a light press fit
The pulleys have captive bearings that are not replaceable so you swap them out ,
Some times you can get the rubber seal out, clean & relube them in which case you do that then sit them on the shelf for "emergency spares" because pulleys always seem to collapse the day before you mother in law is coming for her annual inspection , your son is having his 21st birthday party at home or your daughter is having a back yard wedding
Mowers just seem to know these things.

The spindle bearings are easy to change?

Like bert said, most likely the idler pulleys and spindles.
I haven't replaced any bearings in that particular spindle, but IF they're like most spindles, you remove the pulley, knock the shaft out, punch out the top and bottom bearings, usually a metal space in between the bearings, press the new bearings in, (usually they're set in just below flush. some have a ridge they butt up against to stop them, use a block of wood or an appropriately sized socket to hit on the outer race of the bearing, do not drive them in by hitting the center race)
Yikes, $$$
you can get a good Stens spindle for $80 each https://www.amazon.com/Stens-285-300-Spindle-Assembly-Black/dp/B004HSFDN0

The bearings are replaceable but you need to determine which were used. I suspect they are CSA205-16 (RA100RR) bearings but could be RA100RR7 both were used. The CSA205-16 were use in the last few of these spindles I rebuilt here. The bearing I used were only $6 each.

You just toss the locking collar that comes with the bearings.


If I remember correctly the lower bearing are held in place by a snap ring. May need to adjust the spacer height with a grinder. Here it is less than a 1/16" off.

Thanks everyone for the help!

Stens is a good reliable brand?

bassadict69 said:

Thanks everyone for the help!

Stens is a good reliable brand?

Click to expand...

Yes. I and many other repair shops carry them. they're a quality, but cheap $ , option.

Yes
But there is no magic pudding so the less expensive Stens bearings are not as good as the Timkins used in the video .
The video was very good with one BIG exception
While you can drive the bearings out by hammering on the inner race, installation should only ever be by hitting the OUTER race as using the inner hammers the balls into the races which can and DOES damage both the balls and the races.
Now that I know the type of bearings used I would drill the housing and fit a grease nipple.
The metal shields do not make a water tight seal so the grease will pass by the shield and keep the bearings lubricated .
Just do not overdo it.
I normally fit one bearing against the clip/ stop as he did then the spacer & shaft ( same same ) followed by filling the void with grease up to the spot where the second bearing would sit
As the second bearing is pushed down you will feel some resistance caused by the air compressing then passing through the bearing SLOWLY ( can take a few minutes ).
Once the other bearing is in then as per the video , remove & grease the spindle ( or put a hole in the spacer and a grove across each end so the grease in the housing can get in ) The retainer on the bottom gets a dab of never sieze ( not grease ) so it will come out easy next time .
I normally do bearings with the spindle housing in the deck as the mounting bolts tend to rust into the housing & break . Worse with aluminium housings than with steel housings .
Once fitted, one stroke and one only of your grease gun each season should keep the spindle happy for a decade or more .
FWIW the discharge side bearings usually go first & on commercial customers I generally do 2 discharge sides for every complete set .

I don't about Stens quality now but the JD Spindle clones are failing while still under warranty here So far the customer is two for two on them failing under 6 months. Go things Stens is giving me one year warranty on them. Just install a third spindle and will how it goes. I know I get at least three months as it won't be used until Spring.

First one failed due assembly was assembled wrong. Second one fail when the install pulley adapter nut and the adapter stripped themselves out.

Not good when they are the first spindles I have brought from them.

bertsmobile1 said:

Now that I know the type of bearings used I would drill the housing and fit a grease nipple.
The metal shields do not make a water tight seal so the grease will pass by the shield and keep the bearings lubricated .
Just do not overdo it.

Click to expand...

Any videos on how to do this? I don't have any experience at all with bearings, much less with drilling holes and adding zerks...

Did you not watch the video?

As Bert mention use an arbor the drive in the bearing on the outer bearing. Here I have a large selection of deep well sockets that I use with a brass hammer. A similar thing is done on bearing that are fitted on shafts but you drive on the inner bearing in those cases.

And Bert you might need explain what a discharge bearing is as I have yet to hear that term used with bearings. Sounds like something to do with electrical discharges.

bullet bob said:

Did you not watch the video?

Click to expand...

I have now...sorry! When I asked, I hadn't yet had time to sit still long enough to watch it.

Today, I hope to pull one of the spindles and try my hand at removing the bearings.

StarTech said:

As Bert mention use an arbor the drive in the bearing on the outer bearing. Here I have a large selection of deep well sockets that I use with a brass hammer. A similar thing is done on bearing that are fitted on shafts but you drive on the inner bearing in those cases.

And Bert you might need explain what a discharge bearing is as I have yet to hear that term used with bearings. Sounds like something to do with electrical discharges.

Click to expand...

Mind if I ask what size socket I will need so I can pick one up if I don't have it?

Would be hard to tell as different brands on impact sockets have different ODs. But the CSA205-16 bearing is just a tad over 52mm OD and you want the arbor just a tad shy of the OD as to not stick.

So about 2 inches?

FWIW
When I remove a ball race I rip out the cages then pull out the balls
The balls get kept for shot peening , weight bags and other useful stuff.
The inners & outers get ground down slightly so they just slide through the housings
Thus they get used to replace the bearings as I press bearings in if the housing is out

And Star, thanks for the heads up.
Added the missing word Side ( discharge side bearings ) .

I got a spindle removed but cannot for the life of me break loose the piece thats screwed into the spindle covering the bearing...I'm using a pipe wrench on each end and a cheater pipe 4 ft long! It moves slightly, just enough to make me think I am accomplishing something, then it stops! I've sprayed it several times with penetrant...would a little heat hurt anything?

A little heat will not hurt and a lot of heat will not hurt even less
I would have held the shaft in a vice after replacing the Key so it can not turn.
Then punch & hammer onto the ring.
it might be worthwhile to get a pin spannar or make one to fit the two holes
Now you see why I took the effort to mention putting some copper anti sieze on it when ti goes back in.
The Ikon has a very similar spindle and right now I feel for you.
Moderate heat followed by a spray with your favourite penetrant ( not WD40 ) several times will probably help
Note, only play the flame on the ring, not on the shaft
You want the ring to expand and the shaft to remain cold to breal the seal caused by corrosion & dirt .

The piece isn't reverse threaded is it?

yes well done video..but, the folk who learned me up when pressing in ANY bearing is tha the force and or load is put on the outer race...

bassadict69 said:

My deck is REALLY loud when the blades are engaged and I pretty sure it's the pulley bearings or spindle bearings. I would like to change them all...do all the bearings have bearings? Just trying to formulate a parts list before I get a chance to pull the mower out and look things over.

Click to expand...

Don't know what brand you have. But for my Toro I go to ebay. They have deck kits for different brands.

Just replace the towers as complete units. Save you a lot of grief chasing correct individual components. Have to remove the towers either way. Done in under an hour versus a day of words and frustration.

mmoffitt said:

yes well done video..but, the folk who learned me up when pressing in ANY bearing is tha the force and or load is put on the outer race...

Click to expand...

That depends on whether pressing onto a shaft or pressing into a housing. Outer for housing, inner for shaft.

If you can find the matching size bearing in the better, DOUBLE SEALED version, they will not wear out as quickly as the metal SHIELDED version. Plus they will not DEPEND on additional greasing to make them seal better.

IMHO, from both an engineering and common sense standpoint, (if you intend to keep your machinery running for a long time, and look favorably on anything that contributes to longevity and reliability), DUST SHIELDED BEARINGS really should not be being used on equipment that is USED primarily or exclusively outdoors.

If you have all the dimensions, and can't find them elsewhere, look on either WW Grainger OR McMaster-Carr's websites-that's where I've bought my bearings for several other mowers (and for idler pulleys on cars too) and found that in every case where i had to replace either ball or roller bearings the bearings from the mower OEM's, were not unique in configuration.

I still have an extra spindle set or 2 of the NTN bearings left on the shelf that I bought at Grainger for our own 1997 rider about 15 years ago. I've replaced spindle HOUSINGS several times after physically breaking one or having the lower bearing recesses get too worn from various impacts and allowed enough movement for a blade to be able to tilt or wobble excessively, and a few times entire spindle assembles, (usually after hitting one-too-many hidden, partially buried steel fence posts or pieces of rebar), but for me, when I've put in the NTN sealed bearings, they've outlasted the housings every time.

Ciltech said:

Just replace the towers as complete units. Save you a lot of grief chasing correct individual components. Have to remove the towers either way. Done in under an hour versus a day of words and frustration.

Click to expand...

Read the whole thread before you post please.
This mower has fabricated steel spindle housings that are several hundred each.
It is not a garbage Husqvarna nor junkbox MTD mower with 2 bob spindle housings ,

Nor are the CSA205-16 1" bearing available with rubber coated seals, just the metal ones. Grainger has them but they are more than twice the price of my bearing supplier.

On the Gravely and Ariens mowers these bearing are well shielded against foreign materials. But as suggested adding grease zerks should help as grease does dry out over time.

One problem with both Husqvarna and MTD spindles is even if they grease zerks the OEM uses sealed bearings. Many of the sealed bearing I receive has to be repacked with EP2 as what is use in them is a poor grade of grease.

bassadict69 said:

My deck is REALLY loud when the blades are engaged and I pretty sure it's the pulley bearings or spindle bearings. I would like to change them all...do all the bearings have bearings? Just trying to formulate a parts list before I get a chance to pull the mower out and look things over.

Click to expand...

Some spindles are repairable and some are not. Most Parts Breakdowns don't go down to the bearings. But are rebuildable. You have to disassemble and measure the bearings. I found that its good to have a spare set. That is order a new set and rebuild the old set.

Sometime you can find a re-build kit for decks at 8TEN if you happen to need to replace spindles, blades, pulleys and belts and save several $$'s vs buying individual replacement parts.
check with 8tenparts.com.
You will need your mower model and serial number.
If you just need bearings only you will be lucky.
When re-building decks for myself I re-pack the new bearings with grease because I've found that lots of the replacement bearings are not properly lubed internally.

I purchased most of the bearings I replace from a Bearing supply store that is near me. They are a little higher quality and a little more exspensive and I have not had any issues(industrial bearings). They are mostly Timken bearings. Beware of bearings made in China and though Japan has gotten much better they are still not the greatest.
The main thing that cause bearings to go bad is the type of lawn the mower is cutting, where the mower is stored and if the mower is used in wet areas. Areas where the blade contacts the ground, roots or other objects causes bearings to fail also servicing such as keeping the mower deck clean is a must.
Allowing grass and dirt to build up on top or under the deck will allow the dirt to work its way into the bearing and cause it to fail. There is no seal that will prevent this. The seals help but do not completely stop the dirt. Also the dirt will wear the seals out making them useless.

Thanks everyone for all the info! After spending quite some time yesterday, along with lots of heat, lots of penetrant and even more cursing, I was unable to break down the spindle! The piece on the bottom of the spindle at the blade bolt just would not break loose! So, I will be replacing the spindle assemblies!

If you have to remove the spindles for any reason, the mounting bolts snap off very easy. Use penetrating oils and rock the bolts back and forth with a box end wrench. I don't use the impact until they are loosened.

bassadict69 said:

Thanks everyone for all the info! After spending quite some time yesterday, along with lots of heat, lots of penetrant and even more cursing, I was unable to break down the spindle! The piece on the bottom of the spindle at the blade bolt just would not break loose! So, I will be replacing the spindle assemblies!

Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when I looked up the model referenced (HD52, 991083), its showing WHAT APPEARS TO BE an aluminum spindle HOUSING of a standard configuration. THE DESCRIPTION MENTIONS USING SELF-TAPPING SCREWS, which is common with aluminum housings, less so with steel or cast iron parts. The housing may be thicker than many-I can't tell by looking, but the spindle and bearings would be hefty even without the housing.

If you're intending to order new spindle assemblies there are a couple more things you can try before giving up.

A steel bearing in such a housing is most likely rust bound, with the rust actually penetrating into the porous aluminum, and most standard penetrants would have a very tough time getting it loose. That;'s even if you pour in the penetrant from the top, and either block it from coming out the bottom or sit the part in a pan that keeps the penetrant in contact with the lower part of the casting-and let the part sit at least overnight or a weekend.

If you're intending to order new spindle assemblies there are a couple more things you can try before giving up.

One is heating the entire assembly and then, while its hot, using dry ice or one of the new freeze-off products on the lowest part of the spindle, protecting the housing from contact with the cold medium.

Another, if you haven't already tried it, is to completely support the spindle housing from below and SHARLPLY strike the top end of the shaft with something heavy that won't damage it-such as a dead blow hammer, or a heavy hammer with a piece of wood between the 2.

When I've used this method I first tried penetrants AND/OR HEAT (or used the product below).
i drill a hole through a piece of 2x8 or 2x10 that is just barely large enough for what's held in the lower part of the casting to pass through. If teh spindles are still on teh deck, you may meed another piece of 2x material under the first one to have the full weight of the deck holding the spindle housing in place.

Another is using a CHELATING product for steel/iron.

If you're not familiar with chelating its a process/procedure designed to work SELECTIVELY on specific metals, without harming other materials. Its most commonly used in medicine to remove toxic metals or high levels of otherwise non-toxic metals from people. Its also used inindustry.

I've been using one on rusted steel parts lately and the result have been remarkable-you might want to try it or another similar product. It ONLY WORKS ON FERROUS METALS (those containing iron)
It doesn't do any harm to aluminum, copper, brass,or other metals.

This one is safe enough to pour down a household drain, or on soil, or to immerse your hands in without harm. .Its reusable until its exhausted-just filter the iron residue out if you want.to pour it down a drain.

There is a gel formula and a liquid, I use the liquid. A quart o fteh liquid is about $14. at Walmart. I bought a gallon on Amazon for about twice that price. The gel is much more expensive.

Evapo-Rust ER012 Super Safe Rust Remover​

(HEAVILY edited)

I don't believe these spindles are aluminum...they are really heavy.

Try a magnet or a file and we'll both know.

Even using a top brand bearing(Timken) will not assure one of getting a USA-made bearing. I had to replace a rear axle shaft because of bearing failure. On newer Fords with 8.8 rear axles, when the bearing goes, it frequently scores the axle,as the bearing rides on the axle shaft,no inner race.
I made sure I bought a Timken bearing. The box said 'Made in Mexico'. :-(

SamB said:

Even using a top brand bearing(Timken) will not assure one of getting a USA-made bearing. I had to replace a rear axle shaft because of bearing failure. On newer Fords with 8.8 rear axles, when the bearing goes, it frequently scores the axle,as the bearing rides on the axle shaft,no inner race.
I made sure I bought a Timken bearing. The box said 'Made in Mexico'. :-(

Click to expand...

You mentioned Ford 8.8 rear ends.

For reference:

When I had one of those scored axles, I found out that there is a special replacement bearing "kit" that can be used as a work-around. It repositions the bearing LATERALLY so that it doesn't touch the axle in the same place as the original bearing.
HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?
The axle SEAL used with the bearing takes up much less WIDTH than the original one did, and both are sometimes in a single assembly.
Much less work and the bearing WAS not too pricey either.

The magnets did stick to the spindle housing...

That's great!

1. The heating/cooling method may work.
2. You can pound away and not worry about breaking an aluminum casting.
3. A chelating agent has an excellent chance of working.

bassadict69 said:

The magnets did stick to the spindle housing...

Click to expand...

Before I go back & correct some of the gross inaccuracies in the previous posts presented by people who have not read the entire thread before posting their pet fixes for everything, some of which are good , just not applicable to your dilemma .
Considering the cost of replacements it is worth while to take them to a real mower repair workshop or mechanical workshop where they have both the equipment & knowledge to dissasemble your 3 spindles as it is off season you have a bit of time up your sleeve .
Note I said real mower workshop, the type that has a small shop front with a lot of used mowers for sale not the big multifranchise glass fronts who only sell used mowers .
Be upfront, tell them you can not get the ends off and that is all you want them to do if you intend rebuilding them yourself.
If you get them to rebuild them check that they put some anti seize on that thread .
FWIW the housings that Swisher use and the ones on the Ariens Zoom are almost the same as yours and I had to resort to the 1" drive rattle gun and special tools made from cut down impact sockets to get that bottom housing off , although in both cases they were well beyond the "noisy" state.

goodO1boydws said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when I looked up the model referenced (HD52, 991083), its showing WHAT APPEARS TO BE an aluminum spindle HOUSING of a standard configuration. THE DESCRIPTION MENTIONS USING SELF-TAPPING SCREWS, which is common with aluminum housings, less so with steel or cast iron parts. The housing may be thicker than many-I can't tell by looking, but the spindle and bearings would be hefty even without the housing.

If you're intending to order new spindle assemblies there are a couple more things you can try before giving up.

A steel bearing in such a housing is most likely rust bound, with the rust actually penetrating into the porous aluminum, and most standard penetrants would have a very tough time getting it loose. That;'s even if you pour in the penetrant from the top, and either block it from coming out the bottom or sit the part in a pan that keeps the penetrant in contact with the lower part of the casting-and let the part sit at least overnight or a weekend.

If you're intending to order new spindle assemblies there are a couple more things you can try before giving up.

One is heating the entire assembly and then, while its hot, using dry ice or one of the new freeze-off products on the lowest part of the spindle, protecting the housing from contact with the cold medium.

Another, if you haven't already tried it, is to completely support the spindle housing from below and SHARLPLY strike the top end of the shaft with something heavy that won't damage it-such as a dead blow hammer, or a heavy hammer with a piece of wood between the 2.

When I've used this method I first tried penetrants AND/OR HEAT (or used the product below).
i drill a hole through a piece of 2x8 or 2x10 that is just barely large enough for what's held in the lower part of the casting to pass through. If teh spindles are still on teh deck, you may meed another piece of 2x material under the first one to have the full weight of the deck holding the spindle housing in place.

Another is using a CHELATING product for steel/iron.

If you're not familiar with chelating its a process/procedure designed to work SELECTIVELY on specific metals, without harming other materials. Its most commonly used in medicine to remove toxic metals or high levels of otherwise non-toxic metals from people. Its also used inindustry.

I've been using one on rusted steel parts lately and the result have been remarkable-you might want to try it or another similar product. It ONLY WORKS ON FERROUS METALS (those containing iron)
It doesn't do any harm to aluminum, copper, brass,or other metals.

This one is safe enough to pour down a household drain, or on soil, or to immerse your hands in without harm. .Its reusable until its exhausted-just filter the iron residue out if you want.to pour it down a drain.

There is a gel formula and a liquid, I use the liquid. A quart o fteh liquid is about $14. at Walmart. I bought a gallon on Amazon for about twice that price. The gel is much more expensive.

Evapo-Rust ER012 Super Safe Rust Remover​

(HEAVILY edited)

Click to expand...

As requested,
You are wrong.
The information is good but it is not the problem .
The problem is the round blade support on the bottom of the shaft which if you read all of the thread before penning our post you would have known

Same goes for the housing
Already shown that is is a fabricated steel housing .

Looks like who ever posted the tosh about iron rusting into aluminium has deleted it .
SO here is the TRUTH
Iron Fe and Aluminium Al both form similar oxides , Fe2O3( rust ) , Al2O3 .
In both cases the O causes the molecule ( crystal if you like ) to get bigger .
The more oxide, the bigger it gets till eventually you have the proverbial size 4 shaft in a size 3 hole or in engineering terms , a heavy interfearance fit .
On top of that both of the oxides adsorb water into their structure , the stable formula having 6 H20's in each case and they do bond very strongly to this water and can both bond to the same water molecule so do an atomic tug -o-war which is very hard to break
In both cases the amount of water can increase either further till you get the fluffy white aluminium oxide or the flakey red rust
Aluminium protects steel in the same manner as zinc does , it does not cause the steel to rust and when you finally get a steel bolt out of an aluminium hole you will see the bolt has no rust where it was in the aluminium.
Much of the old galvanized iron has been replaced with zincalume plating which protects much better and last for 3 to 5 times longer .
Aluminium metal will reduce iron oxide to iron metal
This is the basis of a thermite weld ( google it )
Aluminium is barely soluible in iron in either the liquid or solid phases and visa versa so there is no forces to drive the migration of Al into Fe or Fe into Al at room temperature
Al is commonly added to molten iron or steel in order to scavange oxygen from the melt .
SO no rust will not grow into aluminium nor will aluminium oxide grow into steel .

Sorry to go off track here but because stuff remains on the www forever it is important that factually incorrect stuff is corrected before it is repeated so many times that it becomes an urban myth

goodO1boydws said:

You mentioned Ford 8.8 rear ends.

For reference:

When I had one of those scored axles, I found out that there is a special replacement bearing "kit" that can be used as a work-around. It repositions the bearing LATERALLY so that it doesn't touch the axle in the same place as the original bearing.
HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?
The axle SEAL used with the bearing takes up much less WIDTH than the original one did, and both are sometimes in a single assembly.
Much less work and the bearing WAS not too pricey either.

Click to expand...

Good to know. I have saved my old scored axle if this happens again. I replaced the bad bearing with the afore mentioned Timken bearing. However, a good axle from my local u-pull was only $12.00 When I was doing the repair and checking around, even a premium SKF brand bearing was China-made!

bertsmobile1 said:

Looks like who ever posted the tosh about iron rusting into aluminium has deleted it .
SO here is the TRUTH
Iron Fe and Aluminium Al both form similar oxides , Fe2O3( rust ) , Al2O3 .
In both cases the O causes the molecule ( crystal if you like ) to get bigger .
The more oxide, the bigger it gets till eventually you have the proverbial size 4 shaft in a size 3 hole or in engineering terms , a heavy interfearance fit .
On top of that both of the oxides adsorb water into their structure , the stable formula having 6 H20's in each case and they do bond very strongly to this water and can both bond to the same water molecule so do an atomic tug -o-war which is very hard to break
In both cases the amount of water can increase either further till you get the fluffy white aluminium oxide or the flakey red rust
Aluminium protects steel in the same manner as zinc does , it does not cause the steel to rust and when you finally get a steel bolt out of an aluminium hole you will see the bolt has no rust where it was in the aluminium.
Much of the old galvanized iron has been replaced with zincalume plating which protects much better and last for 3 to 5 times longer .
Aluminium metal will reduce iron oxide to iron metal
This is the basis of a thermite weld ( google it )
Aluminium is barely soluible in iron in either the liquid or solid phases and visa versa so there is no forces to drive the migration of Al into Fe or Fe into Al at room temperature
Al is commonly added to molten iron or steel in order to scavange oxygen from the melt .
SO no rust will not grow into aluminium nor will aluminium oxide grow into steel .

Sorry to go off track here but because stuff remains on the www forever it is important that factually incorrect stuff is

bertsmobile1 said:

As requested,
You are wrong.
The information is good but it is not the problem .
The problem is the round blade support on the bottom of the shaft which if you read all of the thread before penning our post you would have known

Same goes for the housing
Already shown that is is a fabricated steel housing .

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Yes Bert, he'd already established that-for certain, by using the magnet.
I was wrong, but it never hurts to check these things-sometimes the parts in place are not the ones they are supposed to be. As in the case of counterfeit replacement hardware being installed on airliners during both routine and unscheduled maintenance-with sometimes disastrous results.

About the round blade support.
Is the blade support on this model NOT an integral part of the spindle shaft?
Is it LARGER than the ID of the lower end of the spindle housing?
If not, then by supporting the spindle HOUSING with wood drilled out so that the blade support section of the spindle can pass through it is a viable method.

I do have limited experience with mowers, but the ones I've seen and worked on all had a single piece, machined spindle, usually with the lower end being a round, good sized blade support/bearing protector above which is often some sort of seal and then the lower bearing, it being either pressed on or a close tolerance slip fit.
-------------------
Next, I have not intentionally removed my post-the one which contained information about rust penetrating the porous surface of an aluminum casting.

In a perfect world, where 2 metal mating surfaces, (be they aluminum or steel or one of each) can each be machined fine enough for each to achieve a perfect surface-one where every atom of metal on the surface of each PART is present and at the same level, then I agree that a perfect, uniformly oxidizing surface would not be likely to penetrate past that first opposing layer of atoms.

However, I don't live in a perfect world.
In my world such perfection in machining does not exist.

The reality is that even in the case of the finest possible machined surface (something that is not found on lawn and garden equipment) on even low magnification, that machined surface resembles a plowed field with scattered holes in it more than it does a sheet of glass.

Irrespective of the minutiae of inorganic chemistry involved, when 2 such well-machined surfaces are in direct contact with one another, there are an astronomical number of physical voids between them into which their respective oxidizing surfaces can "grow", physically locking them together on a molecular level-even without chemical bonding.
This is without factoring in any scratches or gouges made in either or both surfaces in handling prior to and during assembly. Such defects only serve to create deeper crevasses and taller peaks which increases further the interference fit by oxidative growth.

That's why I use antiseize-often.

bearing companies in China make bearings to order
Order 1,000 with SKF stamped into the side and that is what you will get.
Bearings are the most counterfited product on the planet which is why it is so important to get your bearings from a reputable supplier and not the cheapest on line source and definately never ever ebay, amazon or face book where there is a 90% chance they will be fake.
The usual give away is the packaging .
We did wheel bearings on a BSA B31 on the weekend and I noticed the bearing manufacturer has gone to the effort of putting a 20 digit serial number on the bearing with instructions on how to verify it was authentic in the box.

And remember that just because it is made in China, Mexico or even Japan that does not mean a bearing is good bad or otherwise .
What is important is the bearing is genuine and has undergone quality control which again is why you buy them from a specialist retailer with a reputation to protect and a public liability policy that can be sued rather than a totally annonomious nobody on a platform that hides the true identity of the retailers from the purchasers

SamB said:

Good to know. I have saved my old scored axle if this happens again. I replaced the bad bearing with the afore mentioned Timken bearing. However, a good axle from my local u-pull was only $12.00 When I was doing the repair and checking around, even a premium SKF brand bearing was China-made!

Click to expand...

I was going to say something about how common the axles are at bone yards but many folks don't like replacing bad used parts with more used parts.
Oh, the axle I replaced the bearing on was still running quiet and not leaking 40,000 miles later when some kid front-ended my '87 Country Squire. I've saved that vehicle for parts. Its 3.55 rear end is limited slip and I may transplart the center section section into my rust-free '89 Crown Vic one of these days-its already got the wagon's rebuilt transmission.

On Monday, way back in post # 6 Bullet Bob posted a link to a Your Tube video of the actual job that Bassadict69 is actually trying to do
Go back & have a look at it .
This is where public forums get very frustrating and often quite confusing to those seeking help.
A lot of good points have been made that are 100 incorrect for the job at hand .

Now not trying to get abusive or nasty but you are conflating several different physical occurances.
Firstly because of the free shared electron nature of the metallic bond, any two perfectly clean metallic surfaces that come into intimate contact with each other will effectivly weld together because both of them will try to hold the same electrons.
This is regardless of the surface finish with the obvious caveat that the smoother the surface the more contact places there will be thus the stronger the bond.
This is the principle behind vacuum electron beam welding which was very difficult before they started to use laser cleaning prior to welding to get a perfectly clean surface ( harder to do than most would believe )
And AFAIK still the only method of making a perfect joint between dissimilar metals
However despite it being called "welding" it is really a gluing process , or rather a self gluing process.
We can thank the Russians for this as they were the ones to find out that in space, the oxide on the surface of mechanical points would evaporate and eventually the points would weld together . And this was why solid state switching was invented .

Down here on planet earth oxides with a similar valance or molecular structure can under the right conditions grow into each other .
Weather the metals become impossible to part is very much dependant upon the structural bond between the parent metal & the oxide.
Tough oxides like on stainless steel will cause the parts to stick together which we call gauling and are all familiar with while the exact same thing on copper or zinc alloys rips the oxide of one side which we call stiction .

The bit that most have difficulty in visualizing is that 99% of everything on the planet is in fact empty space between atoms and within atoms .
There is an energy force termed as "Partial Pressures" which basically says that every atom or molecule will exist in a particular concentration comparred to its concentration in what ever it is in contact with at a specific equlibrium concentration ratio.
This is the driving force behind some corrosion because the oxygen ( nitrogen, hydrogen etc etc ) concentration in the air is greater than their concentrations inside the metal part so they will try to penetrate and diffuse through the metal till the equlibrium level is attained ( never is ) and this changes according to the temperatures.

This causes the structures to get physically bigger and we see this most often as rust bubbles .
It has to be mentioned here that some of the bubbling is also due to the H in the H20 first dissolving into the metal matrix ( because H is very small ) then the individual H atoms bumping into each other to for a Hydrogen molecule (H2) and the volume difference is around 200 times .
While this sounds massive 200X almost nothing is still almost nothing , but enough to help the threads to expand and lock into each other.

Finally there is strait atmospheric pressure and we have all seen the X tons being lifted by a drop of water between 2 polished surfaces so long as the surfaces are not allowed to twist .
While this is an effect, it is not critical in the case of a thread so while you are quite correct that you do get a myriad of galvanic cells between the surface grooves in the machined surfaces that will fill up with the oxide of the metal with the lower energy of formation this only increases the static co-efficient of friction by the sear strength of the oxide .
We hear the sound energy generated when we shear the oxide as the crack when a bolt loosens .

What is fun is to hook up a transponder ( microphone to some ) to a bolt and listen to it as the bolt is tightened & loosened .
With a lot of filtering & amplification you can hear the atoms moving,the lattice bonds breaking & reforming the oxide shearing and such.
The practical application is you can tell exactly the instant plastic deformation starts, way earlier than the plastic yield point so you know when maximum safe clamping force has been achieved not that this has much use for fixing mower.

However while the oxides can grow into each other , the individual parent metal atoms can not unless they are in a vacuum & perfectly clean so no Al in the Fe and no Fe in the Al

FWIW my first thesis was on the rate of hydrogen atom migration at the root tip of a growing crack in a particular grade of martensitic steel used in defence industry .
It played a very tiny part in birth of a new field called Fracture Toughness which revolutionised maitenance in the avaition & heavy engineering industries.

I take your point about post #6.
I was FINALLY able to view the video-at 3:30am when our internet connection was able to pass on more than a few seconds of it at a time without stopping.

99% of people post with good intentions
and of course threads can & do run off topic
But it does get confusing to the original poster .
Now I know a lot of people get the forum as a daily digest or just emails but it would really help if before they post they read the entire thread & not just add to the last message ( and I have been guilty of doing this as well on more than one occasion ) .

goodO1boydws said:

I was going to say something about how common the axles are at bone yards but many folks don't like replacing bad used parts with more used parts.
Oh, the axle I replaced the bearing on was still running quiet and not leaking 40,000 miles later when some kid front-ended my '87 Country Squire. I've saved that vehicle for parts. Its 3.55 rear end is limited slip and I may transplant the center section section into my rust-free '89 Crown Vic one of these days-its already got the wagon's rebuilt transmission.

Click to expand...

Since the axle is just a hard part, single piece of steel relatively unstressed, a visual inspection is enough to justify using a salvage part.
That and of course, I used a brand new bearing and seal.
For something like a water pump, caliper ,etc no way. New is the only way to go.

bertsmobile1 said:

99% of people post with good intentions
and of course threads can & do run off topic
But it does get confusing to the original poster .
Now I know a lot of people get the forum as a daily digest or just emails but it would really help if before they post they read the entire thread & not just add to the last message ( and I have been guilty of doing this as well on more than one occasion ) .

Click to expand...

My face is a bit red here. Should I delete my posts on bearing quality?

Two thoughts worth remembering that are widely applicable.

“A soft word turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.” (Proverbs, 15:1)

Wise people learn from others; some learn only from their own experience; fools won’t learn.

(I endeavour to always be a member in good stead of the first group-although always successfully.)

goodO1boydws said:

Two thoughts worth remembering that are widely applicable.

“A soft word turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.” (Proverbs, 15:1)

Wise people learn from others; some learn only from their own experience; fools won’t learn.

(I endeavour to always be a member in good stead of the first group-although always successfully.)

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(I endeavour to always be a member in good stead of the first group-although not always successfully.)
As do I.
I suppose our bearings discussion perhaps, needed to be on the front porch.

Threads do take on a life of their own
But it is good for the OP if it occasionally comes back to the original problem
So we can drop most of what has been talked about and wait to see what Baseaddict69 does next
OTOH if this threads side lines have sparked some thing that any one feels requires further off topic discussion then they are more then welcome to start a new thread and see where that leads.
It is after all an open public forum designed for the purpose of allowing people to find things out, express opinions and for others to express counter opinions in a civalized manner , moderated very well to allow as much freedom as possible without bias or jingoism that seems so pervasive on so many forums that originate in the USA .( the ghost of McCarthy lives on .)

NO do not delete anything! There is some amazing info here!

I have tried most everything mentioned and still cannot break things free...my next trip to WalMart, I may try to find the stuff mentioned to break up the rust and separate the metals (don't kill me if that isn't an accurate description! LOL!) but, I have ordered 3 new spindles from 8ten. If I can break the spindles loose, I plan to change the bearings (Timken all the way) and keep them for spares.

bassadict69 said:

NO do not delete anything! There is some amazing info here!

I have tried most everything mentioned and still cannot break things free...my next trip to WalMart, I may try to find the stuff mentioned to break up the rust and separate the metals (don't kill me if that isn't an accurate description! LOL!) but, I have ordered 3 new spindles from 8ten. If I can break the spindles loose, I plan to change the bearings (Timken all the way) and keep them for spares.

Click to expand...

Plus some things are bonded so much that it is virtually impossible to separate them. Shop like mine have to give up at time due cost vs replacement becomes a factor. I wish I could fix everything easily too but it not possible at times. Just have lump it and go on.

bassadict69 said:

NO do not delete anything! There is some amazing info here!

I have tried most everything mentioned and still cannot break things free...my next trip to WalMart, I may try to find the stuff mentioned to break up the rust and separate the metals (don't kill me if that isn't an accurate description! LOL!) but, I have ordered 3 new spindles from 8ten. If I can break the spindles loose, I plan to change the bearings (Timken all the way) and keep them for spares.

Click to expand...

I will repeat the suggestion given before.
Yesterday we gave up on splitting the crankshaft on a motorcycle engine so today it is off to a workshop which has more special tools than we have for a $ 120 strip down .
Some times things just have to be sent to a better equiped workshop
For the parklander & Zomm spindles I had to grind down an big impact socket to make a pin socket to fit in the holes and even then we had to use the 1' drive rattle gun, which has 8 times the torque of my 1/2" gun which was the biggest gun available at the time .To power the 1" gun I need to fire up the Boomwade compressor ( construction jackhammer tool ) .
None of these are what one would expect to find in a mower workshop let alone a residential garage.
There will be some jobs that you will just not be able to do but a professional shop will do with ease because they have the tools on hand .

bertsmobile1 said:

I will repeat the suggestion given before.
Yesterday we gave up on splitting the crankshaft on a motorcycle engine so today it is off to a workshop which has more special tools than we have for a $ 120 strip down .
Some times things just have to be sent to a better equiped workshop
For the parklander & Zomm spindles I had to grind down an big impact socket to make a pin socket to fit in the holes and even then we had to use the 1' drive rattle gun, which has 8 times the torque of my 1/2" gun which was the biggest gun available at the time .To power the 1" gun I need to fire up the Boomwade compressor ( construction jackhammer tool ) .
None of these are what one would expect to find in a mower workshop let alone a residential garage.
There will be some jobs that you will just not be able to do but a professional shop will do with ease because they have the tools on hand .

Click to expand...

For me it's simply a time issue more than anything...working 12 hours days makes it hard to get to a shop that has the tools needed and will do the work. I'm sure I'd have to leave it with them then pick it up on another day, so that's two days I have to find free time to get to town to get to the shop.

Yep,
Life is hard & just when you get it worked out you die

ok guys, I got my new spindles in and they came with new bolts and washers. All of the washers are flat, but one of the old ones is sort of lipped so part of it fits into the pulley, if that makes any sense...do I reuse this old one? or use the new flat one?

Thanks!

It may be the new spindle shafts are longer and no longer need the stepped washer to limited the applied force but that something the OP will just have see for themselves.

StarTech said:

It may be the new spindle shafts are longer and no longer need the stepped washer to limited the applied force but that something the OP will just have see for themselves.

Click to expand...

That is the new spindle/shaft in the pic...the stepped washer still fits it perfectly.

bassadict69 said:

ok guys, I got my new spindles in and they came with new bolts and washers. All of the washers are flat, but one of the old ones is sort of lipped so part of it fits into the pulley, if that makes any sense...do I reuse this old one? or use the new flat one?

Click to expand...

Use the flat one. However, If it were me, I'd flip the stepped washer over and use it as a flat washer. That's a pretty special washer and you may need it, now or in the future. That way. you'll still have it and know where it is. :-D
p.s. that is if the recess is too shallow for the 'step' to effectively clamp the pulley down on the spindle. otherwise use it the way it came off.

bullet bob said:

Since you asked, and I'm certainly no authority, I'd reuse it. Looks like a perfect fit and there's got to be a reason why it's an OEM part.

Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing...

Put it together and check that the spindle spins freely without a washer bridging the inner & outer race .
Then have a look at the pulley height to see if they are in alignment
Finally check there is some clearance between the bits that are spinning & the bits that are not spinning .

bertsmobile1 said:

Put it together and check that the spindle spins freely without a washer bridging the inner & outer race .
Then have a look at the pulley height to see if they are in alignment
Finally check there is some clearance between the bits that are spinning & the bits that are not spinning .

Click to expand...

Always listen to bertsmobile1. He's Lawn Royalty for a very good reason. There are several other posters that to not take heed of their advice would at one's own peril!

I can be just as wrong as the next man
But once shown to be wrong I am right from there on in till that theory is proven wrong
Comes from a scientific educational background
There are no absolute truths just the best descriptions that the current technology will allow.

As for the original poster it is confusing for them but as no one who posted actually knew the spindle assembly then it is a case of common sense and sound engineering practice .

bertsmobile1 said:

I can be just as wrong as the next man
But once shown to be wrong I am right from there on in till that theory is proven wrong
Comes from a scientific educational background
There are no absolute truths just the best descriptions that the current technology will allow.

As for the original poster it is confusing for them but as no one who posted actually knew the spindle assembly then it is a case of common sense and sound engineering practice .

Click to expand...

As the saying goes here in the States, "I was wrong once ,but that was when I thought I was wrong!" LOL!

SamB said:

As the saying goes here in the States, "I was wrong once ,but that was when I thought I was wrong!" LOL!

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Actually it was Einstein who is credited with "the only way to prove you have a mind is to change it regularly when presented with new valid evidence that you were originally wrong "

bertsmobile1 said:

Actually it was Einstein who is credited with "the only way to prove you have a mind is to change it regularly when presented with new valid evidence that you were originally wrong "

Click to expand...

AND another
maybe by Einstein

​

I have to keep a heads up for this one when working on stuff, especially carbs.

Insanity:​

Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results​