Hard start

[Bullseye]

I have a wonderful low-mileage one year old HRR216PKA that has been perfect until last week. The first two uses this spring were uneventful. Last week I tried to start it and it would not fire. Oil was okay. I checked the gas and it was low so I had topped it off. Then I noticed that the fuel valve was off. I turned it on and tried again to start it - it still did not fire. I tried off and on for almost an hour to no avail. Finally I gave it one last pull, this time a little harder and it fired right up. It ran and sounded normal. I stopped it a couple times and it easily re-started. I finished my trimming and put it away in the dry-as-a-bone shed.

Today I went to use it for its usual 20 minute trim duties and again it would not fire. I removed the air filter (clean) and gave a quick shot of Sea Foam Spray into the carburetor. One pull and it fired and ran fine. Again stopping and re-starting presented no further problems.

It has never been abused. I use mid-grade Shell gasoline and always use Sea Foam to treat it. The spark seems to be normal. What can I do that will not jeopardize my warranty? I have a great dealer but I am retired and on a tight budget. The mower's duties are trimming around gardens and fence lines - about 20 minutes of use weekly.

I suspect it might be carburetor/choke related, but other than removing the air filter element I have not delved deeper.

Any thoughts?

 

[Toro1]

Hi Bullseye,
Looking up the manual for your mower on the Honda website, it appears you have an automatic choke system on this unit.
If so, when you shot a blast of Sea Foam spray into the carb throat, you should have had to open the choke plate manually to get the foam in.
If the choke plate was open, that may be your problem. The plate should be in a closed position when the unit is 'cold started" the first time. Once it is started and warmed up, the choke plate remains open allowing easy warm engine restarts.
That's why once you get it started and running, restarts are no problem.
I believe there is a linkage that connects to a heat sensing component on the muffler that regulates the choke plate. This may be hung up. This can be verified by removing the air filter and manually moving the choke plate.
I've not serviced any of these yet, so I'll defer to the more knowledgeable members of the forum.

Hope this helps.
Toro1

 

[Bullseye]

Hi Bullseye,
Looking up the manual for your mower on the Honda website, it appears you have an automatic choke system on this unit.
If so, when you shot a blast of Sea Foam spray into the carb throat, you should have had to open the choke plate manually to get the foam in.
If the choke plate was open, that may be your problem. The plate should be in a closed position when the unit is 'cold started" the first time. Once it is started and warmed up, the choke plate remains open allowing easy warm engine restarts.
That's why once you get it started and running, restarts are no problem.
I believe there is a linkage that connects to a heat sensing component on the muffler that regulates the choke plate. This may be hung up. This can be verified by removing the air filter and manually moving the choke plate.
I've not serviced any of these yet, so I'll defer to the more knowledgeable members of the forum.

Hope this helps.
Toro1

Thanks for the guidance. When I get my old bones moving today I am going to look at that linkage. What you suggested is logical. Thanks again for the help. I'll report back.

~Lee


Toro1!

I pulled off the air filter again and choke/butterfly was open. I removed the carb and all linkage seemed free so I reassembled everything and gave the rope a normal easy pull. It started right up. I did a little trimming and all seemed okay-fine-real good. I shut it down and let it cool off. Two hours later it took three vigorous pulls to get it to start it again. It begrudgingly coughed to life and settled down to its normal purr. It must have liked being taken apart and reassembled. That's good because I'm going to take it apart again tomorrow and inspect again for an anomaly. You were dead-on - it is choke related. Now I have to pinpoint the root cause.

Thanks again for the advice.

~Lee

 

[Toro1]

Bullseye,
Glad to hear you determined the choke plate is not closing.
You may have to remove the upper recoil/cowling assembly (three 10mm nuts) to see whats going on with the choke system.
There is enough fuel line to allow the cowling/fuel tank assembly to be moved out of the way to examine the choke system.
One word of caution. The three 10mm nuts have a history of binding up on the threaded studs. If this happens, one or more of the studs will come out of the upper engine casting. Also, the front stud acts as the second hold down bolt for the coil.
Just be aware of this situation.
Good luck.

Toro1

 

[Bullseye]

Bullseye,
Glad to hear you determined the choke plate is not closing.
You may have to remove the upper recoil/cowling assembly (three 10mm nuts) to see whats going on with the choke system.
There is enough fuel line to allow the cowling/fuel tank assembly to be moved out of the way to examine the choke system.
One word of caution. The three 10mm nuts have a history of binding up on the threaded studs. If this happens, one or more of the studs will come out of the upper engine casting. Also, the front stud acts as the second hold down bolt for the coil.
Just be aware of this situation.
Good luck.

Toro1

Thanks for the heads-up about the bolts. When I was 16 I could fix anything because I knew everything. Now that I am an old retiree I don't know squat! I'll hopefully get to it this afternoon. I bought a shop manual for my little John Deere. Looks like I had better get one for the Honda. I never expected it to have a problem. LOL

~Lee

 

[Bullseye]

Well I finally got out the Honda again and before pulling the rope I pulled the air filter and the choke butterfly appeared closed. Two pulls on the rope and I was trimming grass. If there is one thing I have learned it is things very seldom fix themselves. If there is another thing I have learned it is if it is working don't mess with it. I am going to let this slide until it gives me trouble again. Toro1, thanks for your guidance, we probably shall take this up again. :laughing:

~Lee

 

[Toro1]

Well I finally got out the Honda again and before pulling the rope I pulled the air filter and the choke butterfly appeared closed. Two pulls on the rope and I was trimming grass. If there is one thing I have learned it is things very seldom fix themselves. If there is another thing I have learned it is if it is working don't mess with it. I am going to let this slide until it gives me trouble again. Toro1, thanks for your guidance, we probably shall take this up again. :laughing:

~Lee

Having been in the automotive engineering business for 36 years, I've learned both those lessons as well.
Good luck.
Enjoy the summer.

Toro1

 

[Bullseye]

Having been in the automotive engineering business for 36 years, I've learned both those lessons as well.
Good luck.
Enjoy the summer.

Toro1

Thanks to you and all your associates for the great advances in the automotive industry. Early on I had cars with removable side curtains instead of roll down safety glass. The gadgets and features on the new cars are fun albeit a bit overwhelming. I like most of the new safety devices too. As a former stock-car racer I prefer a quick reading analog gauge instead of a digital display. The fanciness interferes with functionality. Oh, well, back to my little Honda mower...

I ordered the shop manual from my dealer today. It's a bit more expensive than a web purchase, but the boys in Parts and Service have always done right by me over the years and have offered lots of free, well-used advice.

Something in the exhaust > linkage > carburetor is at fault. I had the carb off today carefully checked everything. Re-assembled and easy one pull start. I let it sit for two hours and it was back to hard start. I purchased the manual so I can have a good diagram of the choke linkage from the exhaust area.

After I get the manual next week and fix this annoyance I'll let you know who/what the culprit was.

~Lee

 

[Bullseye]

Still no manual. It was supposed to be in last week, but... Another carburetor problem has cropped up: low RPM. The engine purrs at a slow, even idle. This model has no throttle control; the only control is the blade safety/stop.

Here are the details:

The choke is not working making for a hard start

I suspect the compression release is no working because I really have to give it a hard pull now

The carburetor or its linkage is now letting it run at a smooth steady idle so my trim time is longer

I want this mower to run like it used to.

 

[robert@honda]

Your mower may be part of those covered in a Service Bulletin issued back in January.

Step 1. Check your serial number on the back of the mower deck. If it is in the range of MZCG-8400001 ~ MZCG-8669999, it may need the updates outlined in the bulletin.
Step 2. Contact your dealer; since your mower is only a year old, it's still under warranty. Sounds like the problems you've been having may be related to the bulletin or other areas that might be covered under the warranty. If so, your dealer will fix it for free, so worth checking. Obviously, make sure you and your dealer understand and are clear about what you want them to do and not do, and what should be paid for by who, before authorizing any work.

Here's a copy of the bulletin, FYI: