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Fuel questions
#1
C
Cornfield
C
Cornfield
Apparently, Toro recommends using their "All Season Fuel" which appears very pricy. I’ve used regular gas in my home Deere tractor, Ariens Snow Blower and my generator adding Stabil in the Off seasons, when they won’t be used for several months.
What fuels and additives are you guys using in the Toro mowers
What fuels and additives are you guys using in the Toro mowers
#2
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
I’m a Toro guy, but that one is not in my language. I use 91 octane, ethanol free gas in all my equipment. If they are to be stored for more than a month, unit will be run dry, including draining the carb bowl.
#3
C
Cornfield
C
Cornfield
Is Ethanol free gas widely available? Is that what everybody does? I've never had a problem with regular 87 octane (with 10% Ethanol).
#4
Scrubcadet10
www.pure-gas.org
Scrubcadet10
Pure-gas.org - ethanol-free gasoline in the U.S. and Canada
Pure-gas.org is the definitive web site listing stations that sell pure gasoline in the U.S. and Canada.
Is Ethanol free gas widely available? Is that what everybody does? I've never had a problem with regular 87 octane (with 10% Ethanol).
#5
shurguywutt
shurguywutt
Taryl, a funny guy on youtube did an experiment with 10 brand new engines and used all kinds of different fuel additives/ethanol treatments. Plain 87 octane failed at about 18 months (around the same time most of the fuel w/ additives failed). So it should be fine if you keep it fresh. Non Ethanol is best if you can find it and don't mind paying $4+/gal (thanks Brandon!). I like to add a 1oz outboard smokeless 2 stroke oil per 5 gal can.
#6
B
bertsmobile1
Setting up a truely accurate experiment is a very difficult thing to do
Simple things like the distance from the unlined tin wall can make a big difference particularly if that wall was either in full sun or full shade
The mason jars meant nothing apart from the fact that some of them were obviously not sealing properly .
In the first year of college we were given experiments to do to show us various things about physics & chemistry but mostly to familarize us with the equipment & the sort of things that can affect the results.
In the following 3 years we had to design our own experiments and in those 80% of the score was for the design & only 20% for the results.
When you understand the what , why & how it becomes easy to design what appears to be a valid experiment in such a way that yore guarranteed to get the desired results regardless of weather they are actually true of false .
Making a totally unbiased completely objective experiment is unbelievably difficult to do and most of what is on You tube or face ache is poor at best .
All of what you see on TV & in advertising is total trash but unfortunately people believe it .
Just about every engine maker sells their own branded fuel & oil because it is a never ending source of income
And yes the equipment will work best if you use these products according to the directions ( which no one ever reads ) .
Will you get your money's worth is a totally different question and will vary according to your values & situation .
A mechanical idiot who lives 50 miles from the nearest dealer will value absence of failures way above stronger running .
Some one who is mechanically astute might valve fuel economy above all .
We are all different .
Nothing wrong with plain old pump fuel during the mowing season, leaded or unleaded provided it was good when you bought it and fresh .
All of the problems come from storage, where it is stored & under what conditions.
Now with the latter E anything will be a lot more sensitive to the storeage conditions than strait fuel.
My advice to my customers is to buy the smallest quantity you need as you need it during the season.
t the end of the season either fill the tank to the brim or drain the tank completely.
Run the carb dry or on Honda ( & clones ) drain the carb with the drain bolt that is why it is there .
Do that and you will have many years of use without any fuel problems
You can even put some cling wrap over the filler cap then screw the cap on if the cap is vented.
For hand helds tip the fuel out then start the engine & run the carb dry every time you use it unless you are using it daily.
And when you have finished, store it in a cupboard or hard case to prevent mud nesting insects nesting in the exhaust or air intake .
B
bertsmobile1
There were a lot of technical problems with the way he did that experiment so don't elevate the findings above the level of interesting trend.Taryl, a funny guy on youtube did an experiment with 10 brand new engines and used all kinds of different fuel additives/ethanol treatments. Plain 87 octane failed at about 18 months (around the same time most of the fuel w/ additives failed). So it should be fine if you keep it fresh. Non Ethanol is best if you can find it and don't mind paying $4+/gal (thanks Brandon!). I like to add a 1oz outboard smokeless 2 stroke oil per 5 gal can.
Setting up a truely accurate experiment is a very difficult thing to do
Simple things like the distance from the unlined tin wall can make a big difference particularly if that wall was either in full sun or full shade
The mason jars meant nothing apart from the fact that some of them were obviously not sealing properly .
In the first year of college we were given experiments to do to show us various things about physics & chemistry but mostly to familarize us with the equipment & the sort of things that can affect the results.
In the following 3 years we had to design our own experiments and in those 80% of the score was for the design & only 20% for the results.
When you understand the what , why & how it becomes easy to design what appears to be a valid experiment in such a way that yore guarranteed to get the desired results regardless of weather they are actually true of false .
Making a totally unbiased completely objective experiment is unbelievably difficult to do and most of what is on You tube or face ache is poor at best .
All of what you see on TV & in advertising is total trash but unfortunately people believe it .
Just about every engine maker sells their own branded fuel & oil because it is a never ending source of income
And yes the equipment will work best if you use these products according to the directions ( which no one ever reads ) .
Will you get your money's worth is a totally different question and will vary according to your values & situation .
A mechanical idiot who lives 50 miles from the nearest dealer will value absence of failures way above stronger running .
Some one who is mechanically astute might valve fuel economy above all .
We are all different .
Nothing wrong with plain old pump fuel during the mowing season, leaded or unleaded provided it was good when you bought it and fresh .
All of the problems come from storage, where it is stored & under what conditions.
Now with the latter E anything will be a lot more sensitive to the storeage conditions than strait fuel.
My advice to my customers is to buy the smallest quantity you need as you need it during the season.
t the end of the season either fill the tank to the brim or drain the tank completely.
Run the carb dry or on Honda ( & clones ) drain the carb with the drain bolt that is why it is there .
Do that and you will have many years of use without any fuel problems
You can even put some cling wrap over the filler cap then screw the cap on if the cap is vented.
For hand helds tip the fuel out then start the engine & run the carb dry every time you use it unless you are using it daily.
And when you have finished, store it in a cupboard or hard case to prevent mud nesting insects nesting in the exhaust or air intake .
#7
shurguywutt
shurguywutt
I understand what you are saying and agree to a point however he did leave equipment outside in the elements and it still started off e10. Maybe those subaru engines are real good? It did show that the additives don't do jack. Also that e0 is superior. O2 exposure level to the fuel is a huge factor in storage. I personally only run E0 and never have any problems. I store e10 for my generator but only start it/purge it with e0 and a heavy dose of TC-W3. Once its running good it drinks anything. My other small engines only dine on E0. Never had a problem.There were a lot of technical problems with the way he did that experiment so don't elevate the findings above the level of interesting trend.
Setting up a truely accurate experiment is a very difficult thing to do
Simple things like the distance from the unlined tin wall can make a big difference particularly if that wall was either in full sun or full shade
The mason jars meant nothing apart from the fact that some of them were obviously not sealing properly .
In the first year of college we were given experiments to do to show us various things about physics & chemistry but mostly to familarize us with the equipment & the sort of things that can affect the results.
In the following 3 years we had to design our own experiments and in those 80% of the score was for the design & only 20% for the results.
When you understand the what , why & how it becomes easy to design what appears to be a valid experiment in such a way that yore guarranteed to get the desired results regardless of weather they are actually true of false .
Making a totally unbiased completely objective experiment is unbelievably difficult to do and most of what is on You tube or face ache is poor at best .
All of what you see on TV & in advertising is total trash but unfortunately people believe it .
Just about every engine maker sells their own branded fuel & oil because it is a never ending source of income
And yes the equipment will work best if you use these products according to the directions ( which no one ever reads ) .
Will you get your money's worth is a totally different question and will vary according to your values & situation .
A mechanical idiot who lives 50 miles from the nearest dealer will value absence of failures way above stronger running .
Some one who is mechanically astute might valve fuel economy above all .
We are all different .
Nothing wrong with plain old pump fuel during the mowing season, leaded or unleaded provided it was good when you bought it and fresh .
All of the problems come from storage, where it is stored & under what conditions.
Now with the latter E anything will be a lot more sensitive to the storeage conditions than strait fuel.
My advice to my customers is to buy the smallest quantity you need as you need it during the season.
t the end of the season either fill the tank to the brim or drain the tank completely.
Run the carb dry or on Honda ( & clones ) drain the carb with the drain bolt that is why it is there .
Do that and you will have many years of use without any fuel problems
You can even put some cling wrap over the filler cap then screw the cap on if the cap is vented.
For hand helds tip the fuel out then start the engine & run the carb dry every time you use it unless you are using it daily.
And when you have finished, store it in a cupboard or hard case to prevent mud nesting insects nesting in the exhaust or air intake .
#8
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Personally I take anything posted by Tarly with a grain of salt. Just someone who has learned how to make money with a video camera and computer. Most of what I’ve seen skirts the edge of facts and his how to videos don’t always follow good repair procedures. Finally his opinions and procedures are probably just like mine, not worth a darn.
#9
shurguywutt
shurguywutt
I've worked with a lot of people over the years in different fields and you can tell by watching people work how skilled they are. The guy works like he has some skill and it definitely looks like he runs a sucessful shop. Yeah he makes money from youtube but who cares? He's entertaining and he tries to help people learn so more power to him. I am all ears for everyone else's youtube how-tos that they make? Just my opinion and it's like an @%$hole - everyone has one.
#10
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Cramming a lesson with a lot of humour is a standard & well know technique in teaching.
Weather it is good to do with dangerous things like mowers & chain saws is another matter.
I bypass all of the initial sillyness
And the sillyness is a cheap trick to increase the viewing time which drastically increase the renumeration.
HE is just another mower technician
Some of the stuff is good & some of the stuff is a tad on the redneck side of things but at least very little is downright wrong .
When I first took on the repair run I sat through every one of his videos + Donny boy 87 + a few others.
Just like being on here it is interesting to see how others tackle the same problems that I have.
The take away that most addativies do little more than make you wallet thin is true FOR HIS SHED and not necessarily universally applicable
The experiment was poorly done and not recorded properly
For a start dew points are very important because it is the dew point that determines IF water will condense in your tank
And the absolute humidity that determines how much water will condense, if the dew point gets low enough and how much of the volatile fraction ( aromatics ) evaporate which is why strait fuel goes off .
No volatiles means there is nothing to burn because the fuel remains as droplets and liquids can not burn.
Then there was the actual temperatures , maximums & minimums plus the temperatures when the starting attempt was made.
By the time he got to the end the temperature would have changed drastically and the higher the temperature, the greater amount of aromatics vapourise so the easier they should have started .\
\
As for running a successful shop. each one of those videos would be a full days work, if not two for the shooting then the better part of a third for post production
You can see it in the production which is exceedingly professional . note where the shadows are ( or lack of shadows are ) so there is some one adjusting the lighting, another doing the filming then Taryl himself
The transport company I ran did models, photographers stylists, production houses , avid editing etc so I know just how long setting up this stuff takes .
So I would say Taryl is a film production company that does some mower repairs on the side .
Weather it is good to do with dangerous things like mowers & chain saws is another matter.
I bypass all of the initial sillyness
And the sillyness is a cheap trick to increase the viewing time which drastically increase the renumeration.
HE is just another mower technician
Some of the stuff is good & some of the stuff is a tad on the redneck side of things but at least very little is downright wrong .
When I first took on the repair run I sat through every one of his videos + Donny boy 87 + a few others.
Just like being on here it is interesting to see how others tackle the same problems that I have.
The take away that most addativies do little more than make you wallet thin is true FOR HIS SHED and not necessarily universally applicable
The experiment was poorly done and not recorded properly
For a start dew points are very important because it is the dew point that determines IF water will condense in your tank
And the absolute humidity that determines how much water will condense, if the dew point gets low enough and how much of the volatile fraction ( aromatics ) evaporate which is why strait fuel goes off .
No volatiles means there is nothing to burn because the fuel remains as droplets and liquids can not burn.
Then there was the actual temperatures , maximums & minimums plus the temperatures when the starting attempt was made.
By the time he got to the end the temperature would have changed drastically and the higher the temperature, the greater amount of aromatics vapourise so the easier they should have started .\
\
As for running a successful shop. each one of those videos would be a full days work, if not two for the shooting then the better part of a third for post production
You can see it in the production which is exceedingly professional . note where the shadows are ( or lack of shadows are ) so there is some one adjusting the lighting, another doing the filming then Taryl himself
The transport company I ran did models, photographers stylists, production houses , avid editing etc so I know just how long setting up this stuff takes .
So I would say Taryl is a film production company that does some mower repairs on the side .
#11
B
billypumper
B
billypumper
I am also a user of ethanol free gasoline, Sinclair sells it in my area, add stabilizer in for over the winter months, have shut-offs on everything gas 4 cycle let the motor run dry. Starts on first pull in the spring, put Seafoam in my diesel lawn tractor, at present mower deck has been replaced with a 72" snow blade (X758) lawn tractor.also buy ethanol free for the garage queen that isn't driven in the winter months, E400 cabriolet.
#12
O
oldgearhead
O
oldgearhead
I use Amsoil products for all my equipment (2 & 4 cycle) and have never had an issue. I use regular (ethanol) gas throughout the year. I am sure others have had similar luck with other brands, but given my history with Amosil (15+ years) I am not changing. Just my opinion. Never had an issue with leaving gas in the tank (lapse of memory) or carb problems. Just my 2 cents.Apparently, Toro recommends using their "All Season Fuel" which appears very pricy. I’ve used regular gas in my home Deere tractor, Ariens Snow Blower and my generator adding Stabil in the Off seasons, when they won’t be used for several months.
What fuels and additives are you guys using in the Toro mowers
#13
B
billypumper
B
billypumper
Using ethanol free gasoline or using gasoline with ethanol is everyone's choice, ethanol free works for me in my area which has high humidity, climate will have a factor in what works and doesn't work, enough said.
#14
A
AdamE
A
AdamE
This season, I bought a bottle of Sta-Bil 360. It's ethanol treatment and stabilizer.
Does anyone have any opinions on it?
Does anyone have any opinions on it?
#15
C
catman606
Lots of people love it though, my tiller may have needed cleaning anyway. I'd always ran ethanol gas in it.
Far as gas type, I use non-ethanol in my 2 cycle tools with Stihl synthetic oil. They run much better on the E0. I've always put E10 in my mowers and tillers, I'm going to buy a new JD mower before their 0% financing runs out on 1/31/22 so I may run E0 in everything then, if I can afford it! (thanks Brandon). And Subaru's are great engines, my grandsons go-kart has a 6 hp on it. He doesn't ride it as often as he use to, but it always starts right up, no problems. But they're no hot rod parts for them, bummer. Get a Predator if you want to go fast.
C
catman606
My garden tiller sits from September till May normally. Never drain the gas and have never had a problem with it starting in the spring for the 20 years I've owned it, except one year about 5 years ago when I had decided to add Sta-Bil to the gas in the fall. Had to take off the carb and do a quick cleaning, fired right up. No more Sta-Bil for me.This season, I bought a bottle of Sta-Bil 360. It's ethanol treatment and stabilizer.
Does anyone have any opinions on it?
Lots of people love it though, my tiller may have needed cleaning anyway. I'd always ran ethanol gas in it.
Far as gas type, I use non-ethanol in my 2 cycle tools with Stihl synthetic oil. They run much better on the E0. I've always put E10 in my mowers and tillers, I'm going to buy a new JD mower before their 0% financing runs out on 1/31/22 so I may run E0 in everything then, if I can afford it! (thanks Brandon). And Subaru's are great engines, my grandsons go-kart has a 6 hp on it. He doesn't ride it as often as he use to, but it always starts right up, no problems. But they're no hot rod parts for them, bummer. Get a Predator if you want to go fast.
#16
shurguywutt
shurguywutt
Snake oil. If you use fresh e10 you won't have any problems. If you plan to store for longer periods use e0.This season, I bought a bottle of Sta-Bil 360. It's ethanol treatment and stabilizer.
Does anyone have any opinions on it?
#17
B
bertsmobile1
I can never understand peoples facination with fuel preservers
There is a fuel station on just about every street corner
Most people go to work every day
Just get it as you need it so it is always fresh then when you are not going to use the tool for more than 1 month, empty the fuel out & use it in something else .
Buy whatever fuel that the station sells the most of because that will always be the freshest, it really makes no difference to the mowers what fuel you use because they are primative engines .
stop conflaiting your mower & hand helds with your very high performance motor vehicles the only real simalarity is they both have exhaust pipes.
Putting 2 stroke in your 4 stroke mower or car will not do any long term damage to anything .
I run a repair business and use a lot of fuel
I buy it 2 or 3 times a week , usually in 1 or 2 gallon lots
The residual fuel in hand helds goes into the lawnmowers as I have the priveledge of using 2 stroke walk behinds and have enough mowers to last me till the year 3000 and enough parts to keep them running till the year 4000 .
B
bertsmobile1
90% of the time it does nothingThis season, I bought a bottle of Sta-Bil 360. It's ethanol treatment and stabilizer.
Does anyone have any opinions on it?
I can never understand peoples facination with fuel preservers
There is a fuel station on just about every street corner
Most people go to work every day
Just get it as you need it so it is always fresh then when you are not going to use the tool for more than 1 month, empty the fuel out & use it in something else .
Buy whatever fuel that the station sells the most of because that will always be the freshest, it really makes no difference to the mowers what fuel you use because they are primative engines .
stop conflaiting your mower & hand helds with your very high performance motor vehicles the only real simalarity is they both have exhaust pipes.
Putting 2 stroke in your 4 stroke mower or car will not do any long term damage to anything .
I run a repair business and use a lot of fuel
I buy it 2 or 3 times a week , usually in 1 or 2 gallon lots
The residual fuel in hand helds goes into the lawnmowers as I have the priveledge of using 2 stroke walk behinds and have enough mowers to last me till the year 3000 and enough parts to keep them running till the year 4000 .
#18
B
boatmoter
B
boatmoter
in ALL my small engines I use non-Ethanol fuel & I add Seafoam to itApparently, Toro recommends using their "All Season Fuel" which appears very pricy. I’ve used regular gas in my home Deere tractor, Ariens Snow Blower and my generator adding Stabil in the Off seasons, when they won’t be used for several months.
What fuels and additives are you guys using in the Toro mowers