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I heard typical gas station unleaded, has up to 10% ethanol, and its the worst thing for small engines, particularly mower engines. man, is that what has been my problem for years, every 2 or so years I have to dismantle and clean out my carbs? They say the ethanol "congeals", and clogs orfices in the carbs. Is this baloney, people??

That the best alternative is to get ethanol free gas, or add "stabilizer", which "coats" the orfices in the carbs and keeps them from clogging. Sounds like "too good to be true".

Ethanol is bad for all types of engines. But there is a power equipment shop near where I live and they sell ethanol-free gas.

Ethanol attracts water from the air, it is then absorbed into engine components. When ethanol breaks down sludge in fuel tanks, instead on breaking down sludge completely, the sludge is still not broken down and it clogs carburetors, injectors, and fuel filters. More than 10% ethanol will REALLY damage your engine.

rigoletto said:

I heard typical gas station unleaded, has up to 10% ethanol, and its the worst thing for small engines, particularly mower engines. man, is that what has been my problem for years, every 2 or so years I have to dismantle and clean out my carbs? They say the ethanol "congeals", and clogs orfices in the carbs. Is this baloney, people??

That the best alternative is to get ethanol free gas, or add "stabilizer", which "coats" the orfices in the carbs and keeps them from clogging. Sounds like "too good to be true".

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What octane gas are you running in your mowers? I don't believe that ethanol gas is bad to run your mower engine. I've been running top tier ethanol gas in my mowers and equipment for years and never had an issue with anything.

Ric said:

What octane gas are you running in your mowers? I don't believe that ethanol gas is bad to run your mower engine. I've been running top tier ethanol gas in my mowers and equipment for years and never had an issue with anything.

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I run less than 10% ethanol in my equipment. You shouldn't run over 10% in equipment unless the owner's manual states you can run over 10% ethanol.

Does the canned gas they sell at Lowe's and Home Depot and other stores have ethanol in it?

LazerZLandscaping said:

I run less than 10% ethanol in my equipment. You shouldn't run over 10% in equipment unless the owner's manual states you can run over 10% ethanol.

Does the canned gas they sell at Lowe's and Home Depot and other stores have ethanol in it?

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Most of the canned gas is 92 or 93 octane and is mix and doesn't contain Ethanol. IMO $32.00 a Gallon for mix is a bit much. HD price that is. if you buy from a dealer could be more. As long as you run the top tier 93 octane you shouldn't have any problems with gas from the pump.

Thanks. But this "top tier" thing- hate to say it, but Im very suspicious about top tier concept. All gas in a specified octane is the same(except for the added ethanol), comes from the same pipeline from Texas, ends up in southeast, and one way up in NJ somewhare. All trucks fill up at the terminals, and then they "brand" it.

Still, my manual says use 87 octane, so why should I use 93? Like using 93 octane in a car that specifies 87. Roads are full of people puting in 93 octane "high test" , when they are doing nothing "better" to their cars even though their cars specify 87.

all posts appreciated, as the more the better.

Ric said:

What octane gas are you running in your mowers? I don't believe that ethanol gas is bad to run your mower engine. I've been running top tier ethanol gas in my mowers and equipment for years and never had an issue with anything.

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This, is Comforting to know. Even if the issue of using 87 octane is unresolved. Thanks.

rigoletto said:

This, is Comforting to know. Even if the issue of using 87 octane is unresolved. Thanks.

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Issue of using 87 octane is unresolved? Maybe not for you but it is for me.

Ric said:

Most of the canned gas is 92 or 93 octane and is mix and doesn't contain Ethanol. IMO $32.00 a Gallon for mix is a bit much. HD price that is. if you buy from a dealer could be more. As long as you run the top tier 93 octane you shouldn't have any problems with gas from the pump.

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I run Sunoco 93 octane in all my equipment.

rigoletto said:

Thanks. But this "top tier" thing- hate to say it, but Im very suspicious about top tier concept. All gas in a specified octane is the same(except for the added ethanol), comes from the same pipeline from Texas, ends up in southeast, and one way up in NJ somewhare. All trucks fill up at the terminals, and then they "brand" it.

Still, my manual says use 87 octane, so why should I use 93? Like using 93 octane in a car that specifies 87. Roads are full of people puting in 93 octane "high test" , when they are doing nothing "better" to their cars even though their cars specify 87.

all posts appreciated, as the more the better.

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All my older Chevy/GMC trucks, SUVs Blazers, and Camaros run on 93 octane.

All with small block or big block Chevy's

LazerZLandscaping said:

I run Sunoco 93 octane in all my equipment.

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I use the 93 octane Sunoco, also have the Exxon real close. Everything, all the mowing equipment and truck gets 93

93 Octane in everything, including mix gas for the Stihl equipment.
rigoletto 93 octane burns hotter and cleaner, so for the extra dollar for a 5 gallon can why not use the higher octane?

Ric said:

I use the 93 octane Sunoco, also have the Exxon real close. Everything, all the mowing equipment and truck gets 93

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Most of my truck run on 93 octane because they all have big block or small block Chevy's under the hood and they need the 93 octane.


They may be gas pigs, but I don't care

rigoletto said:

Still, my manual says use 87 octane, so why should I use 93? Like using 93 octane in a car that specifies 87. Roads are full of people putting in 93 octane "high test" , when they are doing nothing "better" to their cars even though their cars specify 87.

all posts appreciated, as the more the better.

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Most vehicles don't specify an actual gas rating except maybe your High performance sports cars, they give you a minimum and maximum. My Truck will burn 87 to 93 octane with 10% ethanol what I choose to run is my choice, it will also burn anything with ethanol up to the new E85 stuff, it's up to the individual owner as to what he prefers to pay for gas for his vehicle or equipment. As was already said for the price difference why not burn the good stuff.

Nwatson99 said:

93 Octane in everything, including mix gas for the Stihl equipment.
rigoletto 93 octane burns hotter and cleaner, so for the extra dollar for a 5 gallon can why not use the higher octane?

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Would you explain " burns hotter " .

Q. My owner's manual says my car will run just fine on regular, unleaded gas. Will "treating" it to premium gas provide any benefit?

A. Let's be perfectly clear about this:
NO!
A. The only thing you'll be benefiting are the portfolios of impoverished oil company executives.
And before you do that, consider that Exxon-Mobil earned $39.5 billion dollars in 2006 - a world record profit. It's not like they need you giving them a hand out.

Q. But, won't premium increase the performance of my car's engine?

No.
A. Higher octane provides no additional performance for cars that are designed to run on regular gas.
Q. You're telling me I'm wasting my money by using premium?


A. You're starting to get the picture.

Ric said:

Most vehicles don't specify an actual gas rating except maybe your High performance sports cars, they give you a minimum and maximum. My Truck will burn 87 to 93 octane with 10% ethanol what I choose to run is my choice, it will also burn anything with ethanol up to the new E85 stuff, it's up to the individual owner as to what he prefers to pay for gas for his vehicle or equipment. As was already said for the price difference why not burn the good stuff.

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If you want to waste money and slightly increase carbon deposits in your engine... why not do it

Carscw said:

Q. My owner's manual says my car will run just fine on regular, unleaded gas. Will "treating" it to premium gas provide any benefit?

A. Let's be perfectly clear about this:
NO!
A. The only thing you'll be benefiting are the portfolios of impoverished oil company executives.
And before you do that, consider that Exxon-Mobil earned $39.5 billion dollars in 2006 - a world record profit. It's not like they need you giving them a hand out.

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Carscw said:

Q. But, won't premium increase the performance of my car's engine?

No.
A. Higher octane provides no additional performance for cars that are designed to run on regular gas.
Q. You're telling me I'm wasting my money by using premium?


A. You're starting to get the picture.

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There it is. I know you drive race cars and so have I. High compression engines benefit from higher octane fuel. In everything else it's a waste of money and it isn't good for the engine.
To SeniorCitizen... I think there was a thread here on this subject and I'm pretty sure I gave an explanation of that. I don't know that the search function works very well here but you might be able to find that thread.
In a nutshell... premium gas doesn't get burned completely in engines that don't need it. You can't see it but there is wasted money blowing out the tail pipes of a lot of cars using premium.
-------
and to post on topic... I tried premium in my machines fr a while after buying a blower from a manufacturer that recommended higher octane. I think my machines run better on regular.
Oh and one last rant... ethanol is in gasoline because politicians were paid by big agribusinesses to have it put there. That is the only reason as far I can tell.

LOL!! Thnaks, people, for your imput. I learned something. I learned most pros here like 93, but still, that doesnt convince me that my mower's problem is just that. A manufacturer staked his reputation on engine performance (car/suv/or mower). Thats good business. Just cuz Im not convinced of the evidence, that doesnt mean I dont appreciate your imput.

I know its not about cars, but hey- if youre putting 93 in your car and your manual specifies 87 , you ARE wasting your $$. The guy that chooses 87 over 93when his MFR spec says 87 is NOT CHEAP, he is smart, and well informed. This is not new/recent informaton. Adding "high test" to your car to "treat it once in a while" is a sacred cow that refused to die.

back to mowers and ethanol, Im gonna study these posts more and figuire out where to go, but we can debate forever, but seems like I should get non ethanol gas, 87 or 93, whatevers available. ......Thanks, people.

Nwatson99 said:

93 Octane in everything, including mix gas for the Stihl equipment.
rigoletto 93 octane burns hotter and cleaner, so for the extra dollar for a 5 gallon can why not use the higher octane?

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Thanks, NW, but an engine should not burn hotter than the temp for which it was engineered. I hear of people putting "hotter"spark plugs than spec - bad idea.

Ric said:

Issue of using 87 octane is unresolved? Maybe not for you but it is for me.

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Fine- your choice/decision. A few posts swearing by 93 is not evidence for me. The true power of knowledge is knowing that you dont know.

rigoletto said:

Fine- your choice/decision. A few posts swearing by 93 is not evidence for me. The true power of knowledge is knowing that you dont know.

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Yeah it's my choice to run 93. What I do know and the evidence to me is that in the eight years of running my business and equipment daily it has never been in the shop to have anything done and I never had to have a carb cleaned or repaired, only things done are the normal maintenance like plugs and air filters and I do those myself.

All I own is Stihl equipment except for my Echo Bed definer so I couldn't run 87 octane in any of my Stihls if I wanted to because the manuals says to use mid-grade unleaded gasoline with a minimum rating of 89 (R+M2) and if it's not available to use premium unleaded fuel. It also says Fuel with a lower octane rating may increase engine temperatures. This in turn can increase the risk of piston seizures and damage to the engine. I guess the true power of knowledge would be to read the manual. :wink:

Nothing but 93 octane non ethanol fuel and Royal Purple 10W-30 in my Fast Trak SD...no problems whatsoever.

rigoletto said:

Thanks. But this "top tier" thing- hate to say it, but Im very suspicious about top tier concept. All gas in a specified octane is the same(except for the added ethanol), comes from the same pipeline from Texas, ends up in southeast, and one way up in NJ somewhare. All trucks fill up at the terminals, and then they "brand" it.

Still, my manual says use 87 octane, so why should I use 93? Like using 93 octane in a car that specifies 87. Roads are full of people puting in 93 octane "high test" , when they are doing nothing "better" to their cars even though their cars specify 87.

all posts appreciated, as the more the better.

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Much like oil, "Fuel" WHICH IS NOT PETROL all start out the same.
So the refinery pumps out "base gas".
The tankers then fill up with "base gas" to which they add an addative package as a concentrate which mixes up with the base mix so by the time they dump it into the undrground tanks it is fairly well mixed.
Each brand has their own secret formula which will vary with the seasons & altitude that the fuel will be sold from.
It is a lot more complicated than it looks.
So while you might see 5 different fuel brands comming out of the same gate they will all be different.
Down here we only had 1 refinery in each state except NSW so rather than truck fuel 2000km each refinery used to do all the brews, much like those old Amoco stations that had the mixing pumps.
So no conspiracy just some mutual co-operation in order to maximise profit.

SeniorCitizen said:

Would you explain " burns hotter " .

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Every flame has a unique flame temperature
Usually the higher the octane the higher this temperature is
This is assuming a full burn in a balanced air fuel ratio.
Thus 93 will burn hotter than 87
However 97 also burns slower than 87
Much the same as butane ( lighter fluid ) burns slower than propane ( BBQ Gas ).

Thus a motor running lean on 93 will run a lot hotter ( exhaust gas temperature ) than the same engine running lean on 83, provided all the fuel is actually burned, which it seldom is which is why we fit an after burner , commonly called a catalytic converter to disguise its real purpose, to our car engines.

However it gets more complicated because the amount of heat is dependant on a lot more than just the temperature of the flame.
The flame on your stove is the same temperature no matter how far you turn it up or down but the amount of heat available to boil the water for you cuppa will vary.
The same applies to your engine, so burning a hotter fuel might not necessarily make the engine run hotter but it will make the exhaust hotter which will not make the exhaust valve & seat very happy.

While ethanol does not actually "Pull water out of the air" it does concentrate the water that condenses inside the fuel tank and the ethanol / water mix then drops out of solution in the "fuel" ( called incorectly phase seperation ) and sits on the bottom of your float bowl / tank. This mix unfortunately supports bacteria which is the fluffy white goop you get in your carby bowl. The resaidue from the bacteria ( urine if you like ) is quite acidic which is why it rips the zinc coating off your float bowl which not only rusts but also supports sulphate reducing bacteria which is the mid yellow / brown sticky stuff further clogging up the carb.
This is analogous with the old problem of alge growing in deisel tanks.

So while ethanol fuel mix wil not hurt your engine while it is fresh and running, it is when you let it sit for long periods that it becomes a problem except for the few diaphragm carbs still running the original synthetic neoprene over silk diaphragms , polyester or unstabilized brass ( jets) componants which have not been in production for around 20 years now so should all have been replaced.

There are no ethanol free gas stations in my area at all. I've been using the 87 octane, 10% E blend w/ a splash of seafoam for years in ALL my equipment, Zero issues.
As long as you keep it fresh. I poor what's left in the can into my truck every 2/3 weeks and refill the can.\
The most important thing is getting it ALL out of the machine when storing.

Arent the fuel filters on these mowers filtering out some of the water in the fuel? Also wouldn't running some carb/fuel injector cleaner in the fuel occasionaly help prevent any sludge or gum deposits?

Also on the 93 vs 87 Debate. Some of the brands of 93 out there have some added detergents in the higher tier fuel. Not sure if it matters much but I know shell is supposed to have some cleaning agents in their 93 octane which is like running injector cleaner in the tank. I can't specify on a small engine if it matters much though.

Smith97454 said:

Arent the fuel filters on these mowers filtering out some of the water in the fuel? Also wouldn't running some carb/fuel injector cleaner in the fuel occasionally help prevent any sludge or gum deposits?

Also on the 93 vs 87 Debate. Some of the brands of 93 out there have some added detergents in the higher tier fuel. Not sure if it matters much but I know shell is supposed to have some cleaning agents in their 93 octane which is like running injector cleaner in the tank. I can't specify on a small engine if it matters much though.

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The Fuel Filters you'll find on mowers are not going to filter out water. there basically nothing more than rock catchers as we used to call them. They do make filters that will separate water from gas but there super expensive and I don't really think they make them for a lawn mower engine. If you use a good quality fuel like the Shell gas you should have to worry about water.

Ric said:

The Fuel Filters you'll find on mowers are not going to filter out water. there basically nothing more than rock catchers as we used to call them. They do make filters that will separate water from gas but there super expensive and I don't really think they make them for a lawn mower engine. If you use a good quality fuel like the Shell gas you should have to worry about water.

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Agreed, a 40 mic filter will stop water for around $8. But then that causes more probs unless you change/ empty the filter often. Normally if an engine is used often the water prob takes care of it's self simply cause the fuel that you have in your can is fresher.

Bod said:

Agreed, a 40 mic filter will stop water for around $8. But then that causes more probs unless you change/ empty the filter often. Normally if an engine is used often the water prob takes care of it's self simply cause the fuel that you have in your can is fresher.

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The problem you would have is the filter size. It would have to be as large as the spin on oil filter you run on your mower, enough to hold gas and water separately and filter elements which separate the water as well as remove any contamination. My guess is that it wouldn't be cost effective on a mower, that's why the manufacturer doesn't install them.

Ric said:

The problem you would have is the filter size. It would have to be as large as the spin on oil filter you run on your mower, enough to hold gas and water separately and filter elements which separate the water as well as remove any contamination. My guess is that it wouldn't be cost effective on a mower, that's why the manufacturer doesn't install them.

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Not quite.

under the fuel tap on most Honda engnes is a "debris trap" which wii & does trap water.
Problem is no one ever seems to bother to empty it.
Aftermarket carbs have the same tap but no sediment / water bowl underneath it.

bertsmobile1 said:

Not quite.

under the fuel tap on most Honda engnes is a "debris trap" which wii & does trap water.
Problem is no one ever seems to bother to empty it.
Aftermarket carbs have the same tap but no sediment / water bowl underneath it.

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Yeah as I said there basically nothing more than rock catchers. They don't separate the gas and water it's just a debris trap the same as most of these little gas filters on mowers. A filter on a mower that would separate gas and water just wouldn't be cost effective. Those types of filters can cost from $30 to a couple of hundred dollars or more each depending on what your putting them on, for good ones that are serviceable.