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Engine oil for Honda HRN 216 VKA Push Mower

#1

S

sp80

Honda recommends 10w30 SJ or higher engine oil. The new Honda Power Equipment oil is 10w30 SN. I am concerned that SN (low zinc) oil may not protect my new OHV engine. The mower is used in hot, humid, South Louisiana. Any thoughts or recommendations would be appreciated.


#2

M

mechanic mark

See page 13.
Have you registered your new Honda lawn mower online with Honda? This is necessary when & if you have warranty concerns down the road. Read Operators Manual thoroughly to familiarize yourself with mower.


#3

S

sp80

mechanic mark said:
See page 13.
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I have read the manual. Honda changed it's 10w30 to SN, which normally indicates a low ZDDP. I am currently using the Honda 10w30 engine oil. Honda does not list the technical data for the oil. I am wondering if the oil will protect the engine in the hot summer or if an engine oil with more zddp is needed. Thanks for your response.


#4

M

mechanic mark

I will call Honda Dealer in am as they are closed Sunday & Monday. Called Dealer, said to use Honda oil recommended in Operators Manual.

HRN216 Lawn Mower Shop Manual | Honda Power Products Support Publications

The Honda HRN216 Lawn Mower Shop Manual covers service and repair procedures for all HRN216 lawn mowers.
publications.powerequipment.honda.com publications.powerequipment.honda.com
A must have Shop Manual if maintaining your own equipment.


#5

S

slomo

sp80 said:
Honda recommends 10w30 SJ or higher engine oil. The new Honda Power Equipment oil is 10w30 SN. I am concerned that SN (low zinc) oil may not protect my new OHV engine.
Click to expand...
Why are you concerned when Honda is happy with it? They made the engine and know what type oil to use.

I haven't seen any real evidence that zinc does anything in engine oil. Zinc is only an additive. Has nothing to do with the base oil. Most likely a sales gimmick to get you to buy zinc oil. Zinc has been stripped out for decades now. All these new cars and trucks with hot turbos and such are running fine with no zinc. Unless your mower orbits planet Earth, I wouldn't worry about it. You can take used oil from your car and run it in your mower.


#6

S

sp80

slomo said:
Why are you concerned when Honda is happy with it? They made the engine and know what type oil to use.

I haven't seen any real evidence that zinc does anything in engine oil. Zinc is only an additive. Has nothing to do with the base oil. Most likely a sales gimmick to get you to buy zinc oil. Zinc has been stripped out for decades now. All these new cars and trucks with hot turbos and such are running fine with no zinc.
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You may not be aware of the auto engine problems associated with newer turbos some manufacturers are experiencing and the subsequent change in API engine oil requirements from SN to SP to assist manufacturers with the problem. That is another discussion for another day, What engine oil do use in your air cooled lawn mower engines? Briggs and other air cooled manufacturers are still using engine oil containing higher levels of zddp. B&S conventional SAE 30 and 5w30 Synthetic synthetic oil are rated SJ and advertise the higher zinc content on the containers. Zddp has been reduced to protect catalytic converters which small air cooled engines do not have.


#7

S

slomo

I use plain old Supertech wallymart SAE 30w. It's full of zinc too being SG rated. Runs super clean and is cheap. That's the reason I use it because it's cheap. Mowers don't need NASCAR oil. $12.86 a gallon all day.

[URL unfurl= "true"]https://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Tech-Conventional-SAE-HD-30-Motor-Oil-1-Gallon-Bottle/859463519[/URL]


1656362858807.png


#8

B

bertsmobile1

So you think we know more than the engineers at Honda ?
Honda are probably the most brand name conscious business on the planet
They exited the ride on market rather than downgrade their products to the price that retailers demanded
And it is a lawnmower not a top fuel drag car.
The engine is running at a very lazy 3200 rpm so the stress on the cam followers is 5/8 of SFA
I stopped deciding I knew better than engine designers by the time I was around 20.
Down here in OZ I use 10W 40 mower oil in all Honda products as we average 30+ C for 1/2 the year
Depending which wholesaler I get it from it will either be Honda 10w 40 or Kawasaki 10w 40 .

Next to printing ink , oil is probably the most complicates liquid the average man comes in contact with .
Oil engineering requires a decade of tertiary education yet every fool looks at a couple of you tube videos and suddenly they consider themselves some sort of experts


#9

S

sp80

sp80 said:
You may not be aware of the auto engine problems associated with newer turbos some manufacturers are experiencing and the subsequent change in API engine oil requirements from SN to SP to assist manufacturers with the problem. That is another discussion for another day, What engine oil do use in your air cooled lawn mower engines? Briggs and other air cooled manufacturers are still using engine oil containing higher levels of zddp. B&S conventional SAE 30 and 5w30 Synthetic synthetic oil are rated SJ and advertise the higher zinc content on the containers. Zddp has been reduced to protect catalytic converters which small air cooled engines do not have.
Click to expand...
mechanic mark said:
I will call Honda Dealer in am as they are closed Sunday & Monday.
Click to expand...
mechanic mark said:
I will call Honda Dealer in am as they are closed Sunday & Monday.
Click to expand...
If I lived in a cooler climate, I would not be concerned. Thank you.


#10

S

sp80

bertsmobile1 said:
So you think we know more than the engineers at Honda ?
Honda are probably the most brand name conscious business on the planet
They exited the ride on market rather than downgrade their products to the price that retailers demanded
And it is a lawnmower not a top fuel drag car.
The engine is running at a very lazy 3200 rpm so the stress on the cam followers is 5/8 of SFA
I stopped deciding I knew better than engine designers by the time I was around 20.
Down here in OZ I use 10W 40 mower oil in all Honda products as we average 30+ C for 1/2 the year
Depending which wholesaler I get it from it will either be Honda 10w 40 or Kawasaki 10w 40 .

Next to printing ink , oil is probably the most complicates liquid the average man comes in contact with .
Oil engineering requires a decade of tertiary education yet every fool looks at a couple of you tube videos and suddenly they consider themselves some sort of expert.
Click to expand...
I am obviously not an oil expert, however I am interested in protecting my new Honda engine. I am interested in opinions from other Honda lawn mower owners who are operating in warmer climates.. Thanks for your input.


#11

B

bertsmobile1

sp80 said:
I am obviously not an oil expert, however I am interested in protecting my new Honda engine. I am interested in opinions from other Honda lawn mower owners who are operating in warmer climates.. Thanks for your input.
Click to expand...
And there in lies the problem.
Very few of them will be knowledgable about oil in mowers either
SO it will be a case of the blind leading the short sighted in an echo chamber of miss information gleened from Face book or Your tube.
If the new oils have been in use for 10+ years then perhaps you could draw from practical experience but since it is a new change then there will be no practical experience to draw from .
Honda offer a long warranty on these engines which should be enough to verify they know what they are doing in your mind .


#12

S

sp80

slomo said:
I use plain old Supertech wallymart SAE 30w. It's full of zinc too being SG rated. Runs super clean and is cheap. That's the reason I use it because it's cheap. Mowers don't need NASCAR oil. $12.86 a gallon all day.

[URL unfurl= "true"]https://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Tech-Conventional-SAE-HD-30-Motor-Oil-1-Gallon-Bottle/859463519[/URL]
Thanks slomo.
Click to expand...


slomo said:
View attachment 61234
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Thanks slomo. I had considered Super Tech ATV 10w30 Synthetic which is SL. We have been running 95F to 99F already.


#13

S

sp80

To Clarify: I am enjoying my Honda Lawn Mower. I have registered my product, have obtained copies of shop manual, and have thoroughly read the owners manual. I am totally familiar the operation and maintenance of the Honda Mower and have followed the maintenance schedule and using Honda Power Equipment 10w30 engine oil. I have had zero issues with my Honda HRN 216 VKA self propelled RWD mower and recommend it highly. My question has to do with Honda 10w30 SN engine oil. I am interested in what engine oil, other Honda HRN 216, GCV 170 engine operators are using in hot climates, experienced in the deep southern US. Honda recommends 10w30 and SAE 30 SJ or higher.


#14

S

slomo

sp80 said:
To Clarify: I am enjoying my Honda Lawn Mower. I have registered my product, have obtained copies of shop manual, and have thoroughly read the owners manual. I am totally familiar the operation and maintenance of the Honda Mower and have followed the maintenance schedule and using Honda Power Equipment 10w30 engine oil. I have had zero issues with my Honda HRN 216 VKA self propelled RWD mower and recommend it highly. My question has to do with Honda 10w30 SN engine oil. I am interested in what engine oil, other Honda HRN 216, GCV 170 engine operators are using in hot climates, experienced in the deep southern US. Honda recommends 10w30 and SAE 30 SJ or higher.
Click to expand...
Normally you go by YOUR outdoor ambient air temp. Look in your engine manual and it will be like this for example.

1656628327705.png


#15

B

bertsmobile1

In Sydney Australia where the summer temperatures usually have 10 days of 40 C or higher, 60 days of 30 C or higher about 300 days of 20 C or higher and only 60 days in the 10 to 20 range .
I use 10W 40 in everything that requires multigrade or strait sae 30 in mono grade equipment .
Using an oil that is too heavy will not hurt the mower, just make it harder to start and if it is really heavy ( 20W60 for instance ) rob a small amount of power
Using an oil that is too thin can cause excessive wear but only if it is used a lot ( almost daily )


#16

S

slomo

sp80 said:
Honda recommends 10w30 and SAE 30 SJ or higher.
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Personally, if that is what it says in your engine manual, I would use SAE 30w and never look back. In the summer with 90 plus temps, SAE 30w is your friend.

Multi grades will shear down much faster than a mono grade. Plus this is only a mower engine with 4hp maybe. Not much load going on here.

Also a 10w-30 is a 10 grade oil. Let that sink in. Which has viscosity index improvers or thickeners to make it perform as a 30w at 212F. So a light 10 grade oil with magic juice to be X amount of viscosity at 212 Fahrenheit.

I live in Oklahoma. I run SAE 30w in everything 4 stroke. We are in the 100's around here now FWIW.

Now if you lived up north and this was a snow blower, different plan of attack.


#17

S

sp80

slomo said:
Personally, if that is what it says in your engine manual, I would use SAE 30w and never look back. In the summer with 90 plus temps, SAE 30w is your friend.

Multi grades will shear down much faster than a mono grade. Plus this is only a mower engine with 4hp maybe. Not much load going on here.

Also a 10w-30 is a 10 grade oil. Let that sink in. Which has viscosity index improvers or thickeners to make it perform as a 30w at 212F. So a light 10 grade oil with magic juice to be X amount of viscosity at 212 Fahrenheit.

I live in Oklahoma. I run SAE 30w in everything 4 stroke. We are in the 100's around here now FWIW.

Now if you lived up north and this was a snow blower, different plan of attack.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I have run Sae 30 in all my Briggs mower engines for years with no problems and long engine life. This is my first Honda engine.


#18

S

sp80

sp80 said:
Thanks. I have run Sae 30 in all my Briggs mower engines for years with no problems and long engine life. This is my first Honda engine.
Click to expand...


#19

D

damonr

Hello, I purchased a new Honda HRX21K6VKA mower on 10-15-2022 via the local Honolulu Hawaii dealer. The dealer prepped it for delivery and filled the engine oil up just between the full and add line. When I received the mower the 12oz bottle of engine oil Honda includes with every new mower for the initial fill was still full. I have used this mower for about 10 hours total over the last 6 months before the engine quit running in April 2023. I took it back to the dealer and after a week they said "it looks like your mower ran low on oil" and would not repair it under warranty. This mower has never ran low on oil because I have used half the 12oz full bottle supplied when I purchase it to keep it topped off on 3 separate occasions. It has used a fair amount over 10 hours compared to previous mowers and my current model I purchased while my 6 month old model was being fixed. I complained to American Honda Motor Company who asked me to take it to a different local dealer which I did.

Honda just wrote back and said: "The skilled technicians at Pape' Machinery, Aloha Power Equipment, and Honda have evaluated your mower. Based on the photos and detailed information provided by the dealers upon removing the sparkplug and examining the cylinder walls, found excessive scoring and damage caused by possibly damaged or broken piston rings. Signs of excessive heat are present on the head of the piston. Removal of cylinder head and piston required to confirm piston ring damage.

With this considered, there comes a time when repairs are the responsibility of the owner and not the manufacturer. We realize that repairs are never welcome at any time; however, due information Aloha Power and Pape' Machinery has provided, American Honda must regretfully deny assistance with the repair of your mower."

My yard is 2150sq ft and flat, it takes me 45-50 minutes to mow it every other week. Now I am thinking the wrong motor oil might have been used by the dealer for the initial fill or I simply bought a defective engine. Any ideas?

Thanks

Damon


#20

G

GrumpyCat

damonr said:
Hello, I purchased a new Honda HRX21K6VKA mower on 10-15-2022 via the local Honolulu Hawaii dealer. The dealer prepped it for delivery and filled the engine oil up just between the full and add line. When I received the mower the 12oz bottle of engine oil Honda includes with every new mower for the initial fill was still full.
Click to expand...
12 oz bottle?

Scored cylinder says "bad air filter" to me more than lack of oil. Especially when one is certain the engine had oil.


#21

timream

timream

I’ve always used full synthetic in snowblower and mower. Small investment for hopefully the best protection.


#22

D

damonr

GrumpyCat said:
12 oz bottle?

Scored cylinder says "bad air filter" to me more than lack of oil. Especially when one is certain the engine had oil.
Click to expand...
I would agree. The air filter was presumably also brand new when I purchased my new mower and only 6 months old at time of failure. dust/dirt conditions are extremely low here, it’s all grass. Maybe a defective new filter that starting falling apart or defective rings? Mower still at dealer so I have to go grab the pieces


#23

S

slomo

Briggs engines can run without oil and still survive. I think you got a mower built with all the remaining parts, at that time, and was a lemon. Remember Honda is out of the mower biz. They are selling left over machines.


#24

G

GrumpyCat

damonr said:
I would agree. The air filter was presumably also brand new when I purchased my new mower and only 6 months old at time of failure. dust/dirt conditions are extremely low here, it’s all grass. Maybe a defective new filter that starting falling apart or defective rings? Mower still at dealer so I have to go grab the pieces
Click to expand...
Is easy to mis-install many air filters leaving an opening for dirt.


#25

S

Scott_HRR

I’ve had my HRR216 for probably 10 years now. Since 13 oz of oil is pretty cheap I change it often (2 times a season). I use any 10-30 or 10-40 oil thats on sale as long as it meets all API certifications. Just did a valve adjustment check and the inside of the engine looks brand new. There are only about 4 manufacturers of oil in the US so they all get it from the same place. The only thing the name brands do, is claim to put their additives in there. There additives are “trade secrets” so you‘ll never know what they really put in there if anything at all. These little engines don’t have oil filters so it seems better to change the oil often rather than getting into the weeds on what type of oil is best. In reality if it’s ACE Hardware or Honda branded oil 10-30 and they meet the same API you are pretty much getting the same oil regardless of brand name. Just my opinion…


#26

G

GrumpyCat

You don’t get the same oil regardless of brand name. There are few manufacturers of base oil, but that alone does not meet SAE/API specs.

There are also manufacturers of the additives necessary to make a complete SAE/API certification. Each brand decides what use.

The SAE/API certification does assure a good oil. Splitting hairs some are better than others but very difficult for mere mortal consumers to distinguish between.

There are a number of mixers who blend oil for brands who lack the facilities or investment to do it themself. They will make the oil the brand is willing to pay for.

Zinc is a soft metal which only serves to protect when oil film is not sufficient to hold the surfaces apart. Zinc in combustion exhaust is hard on O2 sensors and catalytic converters. Hence it’s limited use for automotive applications.


#27

S

Scott_HRR

Sorry, but I don’t buy into this. To each his/her own but I know a lot of people in racing, diesels and performance related and everyone is agreement, it’s all a bunch of hupla over nothing. Would I buy anything that says “motor oil”, of course not, but do I believe Mobil 1 synthetic is better for my wife’s RX350 over Kirkland synthetic, NOPE. Anyone can say their additive makes their oil better, but go find a chemical break down .PDF of their additive. You can’t because they all claim it’s a “trade secrete“. I’m not against “brand” oil, just saying it’s not a bad idea to consider what the difference is, and if you have no evidence of what they are adding is there really any difference?


#28

G

GrumpyCat

Bob Is The Oil Guy has a lot of truly smart oil professionals posting. Not old wives tales mechanics.

There are ways to measure oil performance and the Kirkland @Scott_HRR poo-poos rates very highly. Mobil 1 mid pack.


#29

S

Scott_HRR

I use Kirkland in my wife’s RX350 and my RAM2500 Cummins Diesel. Can‘t complain.


#30

S

slomo

GrumpyCat said:
12 oz bottle?

Scored cylinder says "bad air filter" to me more than lack of oil. Especially when one is certain the engine had oil.
Click to expand...
To me a scored cylinder is excess carbon chunks coming out of the cylinder getting next to the rings and gouging the bore. Every engine manual states at say 5 years, must clean and decarbon the cylinder/s.


#31

S

slomo

GrumpyCat said:
Bob Is The Oil Guy has a lot of truly smart oil professionals posting. Not old wives tales mechanics.

There are ways to measure oil performance and the Kirkland @Scott_HRR poo-poos rates very highly. Mobil 1 mid pack.
Click to expand...
Again this oil is not for the space program guys. Take used oil from your car. Dump it in your mower. Will be just fine. Farmers have been doing this for decades.


#32

B

bertsmobile1

Put the same ol in your mower as they use for formula 1 GP racers that cost well over $ 100/gallon and you will be lucky if it lasts a single season
All oil sites need to be moderated because the requirements of oils in different engines is different
Engines with turbos need really high temp resistance
oils for mores , makes no difference.
Even the best engines only have 3 pressure fed journals, upper & lower crankshaft + big end
The rest is splash .
A lt of engine makers now specify fully synthetic but have made no changes to their engines that used to run happily on strait SAE 30 or SAE 40
But if they specify expensive oils then the engine MUST be better, right ? WRONG


#33

S

Scott_HRR

Look at Briggs newest lawn mowers sold at various self improvement outlets. It says maintenance free, no need to change oil. Just add oil as required 🤣. Obvious this is laughable and shows why Briggs and Stratton is just a name these days.

These smaller engines don’t have oil filters so in my opinion is makes no sense to get carried away with brand and type of oil, just change it often. As long as it is the correct weight (or close) and is API. I have a 3.5 Briggs that takes 20 oz and a Honda 160 that takes 13.5 oz so it certainly isn’t going to break the bank compared to my Cummings which takes 3 gallons of oil.


#34

G

GrumpyCat

slomo said:
Again this oil is not for the space program guys. Take used oil from your car. Dump it in your mower. Will be just fine. Farmers have been doing this for decades.
Click to expand...
Long ago I had one of the last Homelite 21" SP mowers with cast aluminum deck and about 4.5 HP B&S engine. 1988 I believe. Purchased from Monkey Wards just as the business was collapsing. The oil fill/check was a long tube and dipstick. With fresh oil and oil splashed up the tube (especially after adding oil) I found it impossible to read the oil level when oil in the tube wetted the dipstick. Overfilled, grossly. That was quite something when suddenly it ingested the excess oil. Buried 4 houses (over an acre) in blue smoke in seconds. Neighbors were reaching for 911. Always wondered if I could repeat that smoke screen? Never tried.

Drained oil to reasonable levels, engine recovered.

From then on I only put used Mobil-1 15W-50 from my VW Golf in that engine. Something that was dark enough I could read the dipstick.

About 10 years later the aluminum deck cracked. Must have been from my inferior oil.

A friend happily put my engine on another deck for his own use. Engine was still running great, not using oil.


#35

S

Scott_HRR

I got a free 80’s vintage lawn mower at a yard sale a few years ago. Decided it would be fun to restore. It was full of water and oil that looked like anti-seize compound. I installed new valves and springs because the originals had no more room for adjustment. This thing probably never saw an oil change during it’s lifetime, until I got it. It burns no oil and runs as good as my Honda HRR-GX160 mower.

IMG_0616.jpeg


#36

S

slomo

Only flaw I've seen on that engine was lack of de-carbonizing the cylinder. That is the only way it will smoke and later fail. Chunks of carbon fall into the cylinder and lodge next to the rings scoring the bore.


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