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Hello all, the last two weeks I have been rewiring my two story barn so it is up to code, it had 14 gage underground wire, no service panel, and three bare litebulbs and two outlets...this for a two story, 24X36 building!!! I ran a new 12/2 UF feeder, installed a 60 amp sub panel, installed ten shop lights, 20 outlets, an outdoor security lite, two 300 watt exterior floodlites, two overhead garage door openers, etc.

My hands were getting so sore from twisting on those big red wire nuts and using pliers to thread them on , I spotted my socket set on the workbench and a "light" came on in my head, "will those deep sockets fit these wire nuts"....YUP, they did. Using a stubby 3/8 inch drive ratchet and 13/16 inch spark plug socket works so great, you can get those wire nuts on MUCH tighter and not strain your hands...for those wondering, a 5/8 inch deep socket works great on the yellow wire nuts. :biggrin: I edited this to explain the socket trick only works on the wire nuts with the wings that help you twist them on, not all wire nuts have those.

JDgreen said:

Hello all, the last two weeks I have been rewiring my two story barn so it is up to code, it had 14 gage underground wire, no service panel, and three bare litebulbs and two outlets...this for a two story, 24X36 building!!! I ran a new 12/2 UF feeder, installed a 60 amp sub panel, installed ten shop lights, 20 outlets, an outdoor security lite, two 300 watt exterior floodlites, two overhead garage door openers, etc.

My hands were getting so sore from twisting on those big red wire nuts and using pliers to thread them on , I spotted my socket set on the workbench and a "light" came on in my head, "will those deep sockets fit these wire nuts"....YUP, they did. Using a stubby 3/8 inch drive ratchet and 13/16 inch spark plug socket works so great, you can get those wire nuts on MUCH tighter and not strain your hands...for those wondering, a 5/8 inch deep socket works great on the yellow wire nuts. :biggrin: I edited this to explain the socket trick only works on the wire nuts with the wings that help you twist them on, not all wire nuts have those.

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Thanks for the tip and by golly I bet you can see what you're doing now. I don't do much wiring as I have found it to be a rather shocking experience.

Something else I've found to make things a little easier on the hands is Atlas mechanic gloves. I bet they would work real well for electric work. There are several styles but those I like are about $3.40/pair if you buy 6 pair in the right place. When new they grip real well and as they get older and loose their grip I pitch them and go for a new pair. If a pair won't last a couple of months that's telling me I'm working too hard.:biggrin:

Hey JDgreen,good tip.I wired my 100yr.old barn a few yrs. ago. a good book got me through it ok.I just finished with the addition I built on to it.A trick I learned was to use my cordless drill and a spade screwdriver tip to screw the rececpitals ,switchs into the boxes. russ

173abn said:

Hey JDgreen,good tip.I wired my 100yr.old barn a few yrs. ago. a good book got me through it ok.I just finished with the addition I built on to it.A trick I learned was to use my cordless drill and a spade screwdriver tip to screw the rececpitals ,switchs into the boxes. russ

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I cannot imagine fastening boxes without a cordless drill and a set of bits. Unlike most people I use ALL METAL BOXES, period. I hate the darn plastic ones they sell these days because they usually have no means to really secure the wires where they enter the box while a metal box had round knockouts and you can use cable clamps. It's so much easier to push the excess wire back in the box if it will not flop around.

Another advantage to metal boxes...you can secure all the ground wires to the back of the box using a sheet metal screw and get them out of the way plus that method also grounds the metal boxes well. The only advantage to plastic boxes are cheapness and fast installation, and usually they are deeper than metal boxes, but I still detest them.

JDgreen said:

I ran a new 12/2 UF feeder, installed a 60 amp sub panel, installed ten shop lights, 20 outlets, an outdoor security lite, two 300 watt exterior floodlites, two overhead garage door openers, etc.

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How long was the 12/2?

RobertBrown said:

How long was the 12/2?

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I know why you are asking...because of the voltage drop. Answer is, it's 120 feet away from my main panel which is 200 amps. I can turn on every light, run a shop vacuum that draws 7 amps, and operate a GDO without tripping the 20 amp breaker that serves the circuit. I do not have anything out there that draws more than 8 amps, and I never have all the lights on and use the door openers at the same time.

JDgreen said:

I know why you are asking...because of the voltage drop. Answer is, it's 120 feet away from my main panel which is 200 amps. I can turn on every light, run a shop vacuum that draws 7 amps, and operate a GDO without tripping the 20 amp breaker that serves the circuit. I do not have anything out there that draws more than 8 amps, and I never have all the lights on and use the door openers at the same time.

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I still would have used 10 or 8 -- my whole house is 12 Ga. or more if needed - cost a few $ more when being built, but everything is above min. code. :biggrin:

BKBrown said:

I still would have used 10 or 8 -- my whole house is 12 Ga. or more if needed - cost a few $ more when being built, but everything is above min. code. :biggrin:

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From 2002 thru 2004 my wifes brother and I gutted the house his sister and I live in, it was a 900 square foot 2 bedroom 1 bath, we enlarged it to 2350 square feet, 3 bedrooms, 2 1/2 baths, upgraded electrical service from 60 amp to 200 amp, all new wiring was 12 gage although code permits 14-2 for all rooms except kitchen...mortgage will be paid off in 2 years and then we are going to build a 40X60 pole barn for all my toys...THAT will get 10 or maybe 8 gauge wire so I can run a welder. :smile:

JDgreen said:

.THAT will get 10 or maybe 8 gauge wire so I can run a welder. :smile:

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Years ago I ran 00 gage Under ground to my barn shop...
Did not need it then, but as I started adding things I sure was glad I did it while I had a trench open... :smile:KennyV
Don't think you can run it too large......

KennyV said:

Years ago I ran 00 gage Under ground to my barn shop...
Did not need it then, but as I started adding things I sure was glad I did it while I had a trench open... :smile:KennyV
Don't think you can run it too large......

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Hope you didnt buy it when copper wire prices were sky high

JDgreen said:

Hello all, the last two weeks I have been rewiring my two story barn so it is up to code, it had 14 gage underground wire, no service panel, and three bare litebulbs . . .

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I don't understand. Why no service panel? That is important, correct? Perhaps I am just getting it wrong. By service panel, do you mean that box with fuses inside? Then you have a handle that you move up or down to switch on and off?

JDgreen said:

Hope you didnt buy it when copper wire prices were sky high

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Years ago... It's copper, and at the time copper was cheep ... Had no idea it could ever get as crazy high as it did...

minkyung said:

I don't understand. Why no service panel? That is important, correct? Perhaps I am just getting it wrong. By service panel, do you mean that box with fuses inside? Then you have a handle that you move up or down to switch on and off?

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With just a 14 gage feed line, he would have been protected by the supply circuit breaker... There would have been no breaking it up to other feeds so with 110 volts on 14 gage wire, no need for additional, circuit protection... KennyV

minkyung said:

I don't understand. Why no service panel? That is important, correct? Perhaps I am just getting it wrong. By service panel, do you mean that box with fuses inside? Then you have a handle that you move up or down to switch on and off?

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Sorry you misunderstood, the barn had no service panel (breakers or fuses) inside just wires, outlets, switches and sockets. Kenny pointed out that the breaker inside the house service panel would be the overcurrent/short protection. Another convenience of a service panel inside an outbuilding is you can shut off the power to that location without going back indoors...as I was adding to the circuits inside the barn it was really easy to work in the newly lighted areas, then temporarily shut off all current to make the final hookup to energize the new wiring. The farm I live on originally had (get this) 60 amp service in the house (900 sf) and one circuit went outdoors to a light pole, that pole had a sub panel that had underground wires running to a well, two large barns, and the smaller barn I have been working on...FOUR buildings running off 60 amps but I almost never blew any fuses.

To all, I have been working with electrical wiring for 25 years, have done major work but only got zapped once, and it wasn't my fault. I moved here in '89, the former tenant of the house was a long term renter, the range ran on a sub panel with cartridge fuses, one time a range fuse blew and not having a spare, HE WRAPPED THE BLOWN FUSE IN HEAVY ALUMINUM FOIL AND PUT IT BACK IN !!! When he moved out after I purchased the place, he left me a note saying the range fuse needed replacing...I got new ones, put a board on the concrete basement floor (smart move) stood on that and tried to pull the block of range fuses...the renter had overlapped the foil and it made the sub panel live, even the handles of the block....

Scared the living bleep out of me, getting the zap...but every since then, when I get tired, or am tempted to take a shortcut or hurry while doing electrical work, I think back to that feeling and I stop work, or pay attention, or use special care. Heckuva way to learn to be careful, but maybe it's good it happened the way it did.

JDgreen,my house had those old fuses when I bought it yrs. ago and a couple of those fuses had foil around them.when I did my barn I had it hooked from my service pole to a shut off box on the pole then ran it underground to the barn to a 100amp box. when you said you got shocked once it brought to mind my days working at the V.A. and watching some of the psychiatrist giving E.C.T. treatments.Rather interesting to watch but made me think it seemed like a wierd kinda way to treat somebody for depression.I saw dozens over the yrs. but only saw a couple of guys it really helped. russ

173abn said:

JDgreen,my house had those old fuses when I bought it yrs. ago and a couple of those fuses had foil around them.when I did my barn I had it hooked from my service pole to a shut off box on the pole then ran it underground to the barn to a 100amp box. when you said you got shocked once it brought to mind my days working at the V.A. and watching some of the psychiatrist giving E.C.T. treatments.Rather interesting to watch but made me think it seemed like a wierd kinda way to treat somebody for depression.I saw dozens over the yrs. but only saw a couple of guys it really helped. russ

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Thanks so much for the feedback, russ...now I have a good excuse for my smart aleck sense of humor...took me a LONG time to pinpoint the cause but it must have been that big ZAPP that done it for sure...:confused2::biggrin:

that was funny JDgreen,you have a good one. russ