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Edelbrock Electric Fuel Pump For IS3000Z

#1

N

NeonDion

Hi all,
I’m tired of trying to fix my old Ferris IS3000Z which is not getting fuel from the OEM gravity fed pump. I was recommended the Edelbrock 17301 electric pump. As an fyi I have blown out lines in tank, changed filter etc. etc. and even put a new replacement OEM GFed pump and no gas to carb.
Here is a link to the pump on Edelbrock website with specs. https://www.edelbrock.com/universal-micro-electric-fuel-pump-38-gph-144-lph-gasoline-e85-17301.html
Thanks


#2

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

I'm having trouble finding the fuel pump used,
was it one like this? 1637296597837.png


#3

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Don't understand the term "gravity fed fuel pump". Most Ferris mowers have top draw tanks so needs a fuel pump. Is the existing fuel pump electric or vacum operated?


#4

N

NeonDion

Hammermechanicman said:
Don't understand the term "gravity fed fuel pump". Most Ferris mowers have top draw tanks so needs a fuel pump. Is the existing fuel pump electric or vacum operated?
Click to expand...
Sorry, yes it’s has a vacuum operated pump. Guessing the vacuum is not powerful enough anymore and do not want to tear apart whole engine to see why, it does have air pushing out of vacuum hose but guessing not enough to push diaphragm. Runs great when it was working and only has 587 hrs. On it for a 2004.


#5

N

NeonDion

Scrubcadet10 said:
I'm having trouble finding the fuel pump used,
was it one like this? View attachment 58967
Click to expand...
Yes current one is similar to example. Popped new one on to check and no gas output.


#6

M

MParr

NeonDion said:
Sorry, yes it’s has a vacuum operated pump. Guessing the vacuum is not powerful enough anymore and do not want to tear apart whole engine to see why, it does have air pushing out of vacuum hose but guessing not enough to push diaphragm. Runs great when it was working and only has 587 hrs. On it for a 2004.
Click to expand...
Could you please give us the make, model, and serial number for the engine?


#7

N

NeonDion

MParr said:
Could you please give us the make, model, and serial number for the engine?
Click to expand...
Kohler CV740S serial# 3400820881


#8

M

MParr

This is the OE part
www.kohler-engine-parts.opeengines.com

Kohler Part # 2439316S Pulse Fuel Pump - OPEengines.com

Genuine Kohler Pulse Fuel Pump, 24 393 16-S - 2439316-S, Replaces Old Kohler Part # 1539301-S, 2439304-S, 2439304-S, 2439302-S, 2439302-S Some engines use a pulse style fuel pump. Pumping action of pulse style pumps is created by oscillation of positive and negative pressures within crankcase...
www.kohler-engine-parts.opeengines.com
Are you able to get fuel to the fuel valve?
Are you able to get fuel from the fuel valve to the carburetor?
Are the fuel the fuel lines hooked up to their proper places?
Are the fuel lines inside the tanks in good condition?


#9

N

NeonDion

MParr said:
This is the OE part
www.kohler-engine-parts.opeengines.com

Kohler Part # 2439316S Pulse Fuel Pump - OPEengines.com

Genuine Kohler Pulse Fuel Pump, 24 393 16-S - 2439316-S, Replaces Old Kohler Part # 1539301-S, 2439304-S, 2439304-S, 2439302-S, 2439302-S Some engines use a pulse style fuel pump. Pumping action of pulse style pumps is created by oscillation of positive and negative pressures within crankcase...
www.kohler-engine-parts.opeengines.com
Are you able to get fuel to the fuel valve?
Are you able to get fuel from the fuel valve to the carburetor?
Are the fuel the fuel lines hooked up to their proper places?
Are the fuel lines inside the tanks in good condition?
Click to expand...
That’s the one I tried with no luck. Gas getting to pump, not to carb. Installed new tank line. So guessing a pressure problem. So do you recommend the electric pump I suggested to solve? Any side issues using the Edelbrock pump?


#10

M

MParr

NeonDion said:
That’s the one I tried with no luck. Gas getting to pump, not to carb. Installed new tank line. So guessing a pressure problem. So do you recommend the electric pump I suggested to solve? Any side issues using the Edelbrock pump?
Click to expand...
Watch this. This gives you a idea how the pulse fuel pumps work.
That vacuum hose is a key to getting the fuel to the carburetor. Follow the video and check out the pump. You could still have a bad pump. The vacuum hose needs to be in good shape and connected at both ends.I would do my best to make it work before mounting an electric fuel pump.


#11

N

NeonDion

MParr said:
Watch this. This gives you a idea how the pulse fuel pumps work.
That vacuum hose is a key to getting the fuel to the carburetor. Follow the video and check out the pump. You could still have a bad pump. The vacuum hose needs to be in good shape and connected at both ends.I would do my best to make it work before mounting an electric fuel pump.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tips, I will try again. One last question though. Is putting a electric pump bad for this motor, carb etc. just curious? The guy who recommended this pump is the mechanic for a large landscape company who has around 50 machine out there and has run into this before on a couple of XMarks.
I just do not want to damage the engine in the long run. I really appreciate the help and suggestions as I am just an average handy homeowner.


#12

M

MParr

The problem with an electric pump could be too much fuel being delivered to the carburetor. The pressure and flow rate is dramatically higher with that particular electric fuel pump.


#13

I

ILENGINE

If you go with an electric fuel pump, need to find something that is less than 5 psi if possible. They make pumps that are 1.5-4 psi if you know what you are looking for. I have a local auto parts store that stocks the low pressure pump. Around $50 if I remember correctly.


#14

M

MParr

ILENGINE said:
If you go with an electric fuel pump, need to find something that is less than 5 psi if possible. They make pumps that are 1.5-4 psi if you know what you are looking for. I have a local auto parts store that stocks the low pressure pump. Around $50 if I remember correctly.
Click to expand...
So true! That Edelbrock is pushing too much fuel per hour and at a higher psi.


#15

S

slomo

NeonDion said:
Sorry, yes it’s has a vacuum operated pump. Guessing the vacuum is not powerful enough anymore and do not want to tear apart whole engine to see why, it does have air pushing out of vacuum hose but guessing not enough to push diaphragm. Runs great when it was working and only has 587 hrs. On it for a 2004.
Click to expand...
Hours mean nothing. Same as a "new" part means nothing.

A fuel pump from 2004 has had fuel in it since then = many years. Any E-10 in it since 2004?

Tear down the whole engine? I'm puzzled unless your fuel pump is inside the engine crankcase??


#16

N

NeonDion

MParr said:
The problem with an electric pump could be too much fuel being delivered to the carburetor. The pressure and flow rate is dramatically higher with that particular electric fuel pump.
Click to expand...
On the tearing down engine thing, I meant I would probably have to tear into the engine to find out why the vacuum line is not activating the current pulse FP, thinking something is cause a lower air pressure. Can I put compressed air in the vac vent on engine to see if an obstruction?
So maybe a lower 1-3 psi electric pump model could be used if the Ferris replacement pulse pump still does not activate and release fuel?
No E10 fuel has ever been used in it. I do understand that the higher pressure could cause flooding the carb with to much fuel and I would not want to damage the carb in the long run.


#17

B

bertsmobile1

NeonDion said:
On the tearing down engine thing, I meant I would probably have to tear into the engine to find out why the vacuum line is not activating the current pulse FP, thinking something is cause a lower air pressure. Can I put compressed air in the vac vent on engine to see if an obstruction?
So maybe a lower 1-3 psi electric pump model could be used if the Ferris replacement pulse pump still does not activate and release fuel?
No E10 fuel has ever been used in it. I do understand that the higher pressure could cause flooding the carb with to much fuel and I would not want to damage the carb in the long run.
Click to expand...
The fuel flow is regullated by the float & float valve
The maximum down pressure the float needed can push on the seat is quite small
If the supply pressure is too high it will just force the needle up and push the float down .
Because there is no overflow any more the fuel level will rise till the fuel flows out the venturii tube.

No impulse signal is only cause by a few things
1) piston not moving
2) hole in piston
3) Blown head gasket
4) failed crankcase breather
5) excessive wear in the piston rings

All of the above will have other symptoms


#18

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

I have a Kubota Z in the shop right now that the owner says needs another fuel pump. He replaced the pickup tube in the tank and the fuel line from the tank to the pump. This mower has a plastic shut off valve on the pickup to the tank. It was clogged with grass. Sucked on the fuel line and intermittently it would act like a check valve. 100 psi fixed it.


#19

M

MParr

NeonDion said:
On the tearing down engine thing, I meant I would probably have to tear into the engine to find out why the vacuum line is not activating the current pulse FP, thinking something is cause a lower air pressure. Can I put compressed air in the vac vent on engine to see if an obstruction?
So maybe a lower 1-3 psi electric pump model could be used if the Ferris replacement pulse pump still does not activate and release fuel?
No E10 fuel has ever been used in it. I do understand that the higher pressure could cause flooding the carb with to much fuel and I would not want to damage the carb in the long run.
Click to expand...
Trace that pulse line to where it connects to the engine for vacuum. You need to determine if the line is clear, connected and in good shape.


#20

N

NeonDion

MParr said:
Trace that pulse line to where it connects to the engine for vacuum. You need to determine if the line is clear, connected and in good shape.
Click to expand...
Sounds like the plan, thanks again for your expertise, advice and feedback.


#21

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

I'd take that pulse line off, and bend it, check for cracks or dry rot you could be losing pulse through,,,,


#22

A

Ariens A19A42

NeonDion said:
Hi all,
I’m tired of trying to fix my old Ferris IS3000Z which is not getting fuel from the OEM gravity fed pump. I was recommended the Edelbrock 17301 electric pump. As an fyi I have blown out lines in tank, changed filter etc. etc. and even put a new replacement OEM GFed pump and no gas to carb.
Here is a link to the pump on Edelbrock website with specs. https://www.edelbrock.com/universal-micro-electric-fuel-pump-38-gph-144-lph-gasoline-e85-17301.html
Thanks
Click to expand...
The pump is $48 on Amazon with free shipping if your a Prime member. It might be like the other Edelbrock pumps that need to be lower than the tank so fuel drains to it then pump gets pumping to the motor.

Amazon.com: Edelbrock 17301 Fuel Pump, Black : Automotive

Buy Edelbrock 17301 Fuel Pump, Black: Pumps - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
www.amazon.com


#23

J

jagg2236

NeonDion said:
Hi all,
I’m tired of trying to fix my old Ferris IS3000Z which is not getting fuel from the OEM gravity fed pump. I was recommended the Edelbrock 17301 electric pump. As an fyi I have blown out lines in tank, changed filter etc. etc. and even put a new replacement OEM GFed pump and no gas to carb.
Here is a link to the pump on Edelbrock website with specs. https://www.edelbrock.com/universal-micro-electric-fuel-pump-38-gph-144-lph-gasoline-e85-17301.html
Thanks
Click to expand...
The only issue I see with the electric pump is to much fuel pressure. I believe a 12v pump auto carburetor is around 15lbs Of course you can install a regulator.
Just looked at that Edelbrock pump. I'd try it!!


#24

D

donens2018

Neon:
That particular Edelbrook is too much pressure and fuel volume.
How did you confirm fuel not getting to the carb? I would suggest removing the output side of the fuel pump and crank it over to see if the pump is working first. If the pump is giving you fuel, then check that the carb fuel solenoid is working. If the solenoid is defective, it will stop all fuel from getting to the intake, whether vacuum or electric.
I've installed numerous electric fuel pumps on big auger Kohler Command Pro twins. PSI is critical, no more than 3PSI. Also, one thing to remember is it pumps whenever the key is on, whether it starts or not.


#25

M

mwshaw

MParr said:
Watch this. This gives you a idea how the pulse fuel pumps work.
That vacuum hose is a key to getting the fuel to the carburetor. Follow the video and check out the pump. You could still have a bad pump. The vacuum hose needs to be in good shape and connected at both ends.I would do my best to make it work before mounting an electric fuel pump.
Click to expand...
I have seen dealer blow into fuel tank to prime pump and then it worked well and started right up. Just need fuel in it to work.


#26

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

jagg2236 said:
The only issue I see with the electric pump is to much fuel pressure. I believe a 12v pump auto carburetor is around 15lbs Of course you can install a regulator.
Just looked at that Edelbrock pump. I'd try it!!
Click to expand...
donens2018 said:
Neon:
That particular Edelbrook is too much pressure and fuel volume.
How did you confirm fuel not getting to the carb? I would suggest removing the output side of the fuel pump and crank it over to see if the pump is working first. If the pump is giving you fuel, then check that the carb fuel solenoid is working. If the solenoid is defective, it will stop all fuel from getting to the intake, whether vacuum or electric.
I've installed numerous electric fuel pumps on big auger Kohler Command Pro twins. PSI is critical, no more than 3PSI. Also, one thing to remember is it pumps whenever the key is on, whether it starts or not.
Click to expand...
Ariens A19A42 said:
The pump is $48 on Amazon with free shipping if your a Prime member. It might be like the other Edelbrock pumps that need to be lower than the tank so fuel drains to it then pump gets pumping to the motor.

Amazon.com: Edelbrock 17301 Fuel Pump, Black : Automotive

Buy Edelbrock 17301 Fuel Pump, Black: Pumps - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
www.amazon.com
Click to expand...
That edelbrock pump is too much volume, 38 GPH....


#27

M

MParr

Scrubcadet10 said:
I'd take that pulse line off, and bend it, check for cracks or dry rot you could be losing pulse through,,,,
Click to expand...
I agree 100%. The mower and engine are from 2004. Any cracks, cuts or holes is going to reduce the vacuum. In fact, I would replace the pulse hose and hose clamps before I went any further.


#28

B

biggertv

Search Amazon or Ebay for Electric Fuel Pump. Get a Cheap one. I did that for my Murray and it Never Ran Better! No more occasional surging, Instant starts. Any Cheap Pump will do. You're not Racing it, right?


#29

G

georgPru2

First of all ,top feeding fuel tanks have problem with the line coming out of top fitting ,and settling on bottom of tank-thus no fuel, no matter what kind of fuel pump you use .Also the line could be plugged up ,causing the same effect. Go buy a "primer bulb" for an outboard ,and then you can diagnose the problem. Walmart sells them. choose the correct line size. Either 1/4" or 5/16" fuel hose.


#30

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

MParr said:
I agree 100%. The mower and engine are from 2004. Any cracks, cuts or holes is going to reduce the vacuum. In fact, I would replace the pulse hose and hose clamps before I went any further.
Click to expand...
I replaced the pulse line on my mule with a Tygon line..


#31

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

biggertv said:
Search Amazon or Ebay for Electric Fuel Pump. Get a Cheap one. I did that for my Murray and it Never Ran Better! No more occasional surging, Instant starts. Any Cheap Pump will do. You're not Racing it, right?
Click to expand...
but you have to be sure the GPH (volume) and PSI aren't too much or it will act like you have the choke on 24/7


#32

B

biggertv

Here's the one I got. Some folks don't get it that it's an old motor and pulse ain't like it used to be. I get it. Been There. Problem may be in hook up, I forgot I may have also bought a new ignition switch for the 12v Switched. Here's the one I got, worked like a Champ: https://www.amazon.com/JDMSPEED-Uni...92S651ZL,B07W3DRZ41,B00JS18EKA&srpt=FUEL_PUMP


#33

E

enigma-2

This may help you in wiring a 12v fuel pump to your engine. Pumps are available on Ebay.


#34

B

biggertv

Scrubcadet10 said:
but you have to be sure the GPH (volume) and PSI aren't too much or it will act like you have the choke on 24/7
Click to expand...
Ya, That Edelbrock is a Little Much! The cheapo is 3-6 PSI. Worked great for me. Mine was the Opposed Twin with the Nothing but Trouble pump on Carb.


#35

M

MParr

If the pulse line is working correctly, then the pump must be checked to confirm if it’s good and fuel flows through the pump. Exhaust the possibilities before committing to an electric fuel pump.


#36

M

MParr

Another thing needs to be confirmed. The fuel lines and screen fittings inside of the fuel tanks need to be in good condition and free of debris. The Ferris screen fitting part # 5023067. Any machine that is 17 years old is going to have some deteriorated fuel lines.


#37

J

joe_cooler

Something else to check is the fuel line itself. I had a starving issue some time back. Disconnected the fuel line from the pump and fuel flowed nicely. Engine still starved when ran after 15 seconds or so. Put a separate feeder line in a bucket of fuel and it would run fine and not starve. What happened was the internal lining of the fuel line would collapse under the pulse suction stopping the fuel from getting through the pump. Invisible to see and the solid flow when not being suctioned by the pulse pump fooled us into thinking the line was good. Might want to try replacing the entire line from the tank to pump..


#38

M

MParr

joe_cooler said:
Something else to check is the fuel line itself. I had a starving issue some time back. Disconnected the fuel line from the pump and fuel flowed nicely. Engine still starved when ran after 15 seconds or so. Put a separate feeder line in a bucket of fuel and it would run fine and not starve. What happened was the internal lining of the fuel line would collapse under the pulse suction stopping the fuel from getting through the pump. Invisible to see and the solid flow when not being suctioned by the pulse pump fooled us into thinking the line was good. Might want to try replacing the entire line from the tank to pump..
Click to expand...
True!
With a machine as old as the OP’s, every fuel line on it needs replacement.


#39

D

DOB

Try it without fuel cap sounds like cap vent issue to


#40

N

NeonDion

Well, I did replace pulse line and checked it and can feel a slight pulse but it did solve fuel issue coming out of line to carb in a glass jar with new pulse pump (tried 2). I think I will try the Facet 40177 cube pump which is just 1-2 psi and 7gph. It seems to be the closest specs to Kohler’s version 25 559 01S that Facet makes.
Also I did replace the line in the tank with a new Ferris line with screen as part of problem solving.
Thoughts in the Facet Pump idea?


#41

N

NeonDion

MParr said:
Another thing needs to be confirmed. The fuel lines and screen fittings inside of the fuel tanks need to be in good condition and free of debris. The Ferris screen fitting part # 5023067. Any machine that is 17 years old is going to have some deteriorated fuel lines.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I did replace beforehand as part of troubleshooting.


#42

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

NeonDion said:
Well, I did replace pulse line and checked it and can feel a slight pulse but it did solve fuel issue coming out of line to carb in a glass jar with new pulse pump (tried 2). I think I will try the Facet 40177 cube pump which is just 1-2 psi and 7gph. It seems to be the closest specs to Kohler’s version 25 559 01S that Facet makes.
Also I did replace the line in the tank with a new Ferris line with screen as part of problem solving.
Thoughts in the Facet Pump idea?
Click to expand...
Why not try running the engine with the pump you have now?


#43

M

MParr

Scrubcadet10 said:
Why not try running the engine with the pump you have now?
Click to expand...
Exactly! If fuel is going through the pump and into the test container, that means fuel will get to the carburetor.
I would definitely try it.


#44

N

NeonDion

Scrubcadet10 said:
Why not try running the engine with the pump you have now?
Click to expand...
Hi Scrub, the current pulse and replacement pulses not working, thus my question on the Edelbrock 4-7psi to start the conversation and now after talking to you guys thinking about the facet 1-2psi to close this project out.


#45

N

NeonDion

MParr said:
Exactly! If fuel is going through the pump and into the test container, that means fuel will get to the carburetor.
I would definitely try it.
Click to expand...
That’s the problem, nothing coming out of the pump to test container.


#46

M

MParr

NeonDion said:
That’s the problem, nothing coming out of the pump to test container.
Click to expand...
Okay. I must have misunderstood your earlier post. Yes, the Facet pump would work.


#47

N

NeonDion

MParr said:
Okay. I must have misunderstood your earlier post. Yes, the Facet pump would work.
Click to expand...
No problem Mr. Parr, you and the others have been great in helping problem solve.


#48

Scrubcadet10

Scrubcadet10

I guess i misunderstood your post...
1638122488057.png
1638122511857.png


#49

M

MParr

Scrubcadet10 said:
I guess i misunderstood your post...
View attachment 59020
View attachment 59021
Click to expand...
That sure reads like he’s getting fuel through the pump. ?‍♂️


#50

N

NeonDion

MParr said:
That sure reads like he’s getting fuel through the pump. ?‍♂️
Click to expand...
I see what you mean on message#020, the word Not did get put in after Did ? That’s what happens typing on a darn iPhone.


#51

M

MParr

@NeonDion
Just curious. How many hours are on that engine?


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