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Dixie Chopper LT2700 started blowing white smoke suddenly

#1

bijiminy

bijiminy

Right after I finished mowing a couple of days ago, I filled up my tanks with 93 octane pure gasoline. After that it started bellowing white smoke. Is that a sign of water in the gas or another problem? I emptied out the tank, and refilled it with 87 octane pure gasoline as the requirement is 85 octane, but I haven't been able to test it since I now have to get a new starter. The starter is too weak to turn the engine. The engine appears to still have good compression. This mower is new to me. It has the original Generac 27 hp GTV-760 engine with approximately 570 hours on it. I was worried about the compression as the dealer put 10w30 oil in it and the suggested oil weight is 15w40. I called him after I learned about this, and he assured me that 10w30 was okay. I was worried that I might have scored the the cylinders with thin oil, but as I said, it seems to have good compression. Is there anything else that the smoke could be? This is an air cooled engine, so I don't think it would be cracked cylinder heads. I've already ordered a starter. I also intend to adjust the valves. I don't think the valve covers have been off since new.


#2

R

Rivets

White smoke normally indicates water in the fuel, especially if it started after filling the tank.


#3

Richie F

Richie F

bijiminy said:
After that it started bellowing white smoke. Is that a sign of water in the gas or another problem?
but I haven't been able to test it since I now have to get a new starter. The starter is too weak to turn the engine.
The engine appears to still have good compression.
I was worried about the compression as the dealer put 10w30 oil in it and the suggested oil weight is 15w40.
I called him after I learned about this, and he assured me that 10w30 was okay.
I was worried that I might have scored the the cylinders with thin oil.
Click to expand...

Since it's a air cooled my first thought is rings. Did you save the 93 gas and see if water was in it ?
Why do you need a starter now ? Is it locked up or is the battery weak ?
Did you test for compression ?
10W30 or 15W40 is fine. Read up on oils.
No you didn't damage the cylinder wall with the oil unless something broke. Valve comes to mind.


#4

bijiminy

bijiminy

Richie F said:
Since it's a air cooled my first thought is rings. Did you save the 93 gas and see if water was in it ?
Why do you need a starter now ? Is it locked up or is the battery weak ?
Did you test for compression ?
10W30 or 15W40 is fine. Read up on oils.
No you didn't damage the cylinder wall with the oil unless something broke. Valve comes to mind.
Click to expand...
I turned the engine by hand. It seemed to have good compression. I checked it with the plugs in and plugs out. I charged up the battery. Battery is good. Starter too weak to turn over engine. I've had that happen before. Not on a lawn mower. I also think maybe the dealer filled oil too far above the fill point. Maybe too full of oil. Specs are for 2.4 qts. with filter. I bet he put in 3 qts. I've got a new starter coming.


#5

G

gainestruk

Check the oil level, it might have dumped gas into oil sump and being overfull is causing white smoke.


#6

bijiminy

bijiminy

It definitely needs a new starter. Starter will turn it over once and then quits. Just whirs after that. I tried to jump it from a new battery I had. The sump is overfilled. May be the problem with the smoke, but I may have had water in the gas. I bought 93 octane pure gas. Probably few people buy that. I’m going to try to suck some of the oil out. The oil does not smell gassy to me. I’m going to put on the new starter when I get it. I’m going to lower the oil level. If I get it started without smoking, I’ll change out the oil.


#7

G

gainestruk

The seat on carburetor is not cutting fuel off, it let fuel drain into sump, change oil if you have a fuel shut off use it evertime you shut off engine, you can take off bottom of carburetor and clean plunger that shuts off fuel when you turn off engine, if plunger missing someone clipped it off thinking it wasn't working.


#8

G

gainestruk

bijiminy said:
It definitely needs a new starter. Starter will turn it over once and then quits. Just whirs after that. I tried to jump it from a new battery I had. The sump is overfilled. May be the problem with the smoke, but I may have had water in the gas. I bought 93 octane pure gas. Probably few people buy that. I’m going to try to suck some of the oil out. The oil does not smell gassy to me. I’m going to put on the new starter when I get it. I’m going to lower the oil level. If I get it started without smoking, I’ll change out the oil.
Click to expand...
If it was overfilled with oil that will cause smoking also, disregard my next msg, just make sure oil isn't flooded with gas, did you just have oil changed or added oil to it ?
Also too much oil can hydrolock engine to where starter can't turn engine over.


#9

bijiminy

bijiminy

gainestruk said:
If it was overfilled with oil that will cause smoking also, disregard my next msg, just make sure oil isn't flooded with gas, did you just have oil changed or added oil to it ?
Also too much oil can hydrolock engine to where starter can't turn engine over.
Click to expand...
I didn’t add oil to it. It was just serviced when I bought the mower. I never heard of hydrolocking the engine. I don’t think it’s that overfilled, but it’s possible. Like I said, I’m going to lower the oil level. Thanks for the response. Maybe I should add a stop cock to my fuel line.


#10

D

dcgrazier

I highly recommend you change the oil and the oil filter. An over filled crankcase is a sign of gas leaking into the crankcase from the carburetor. Gas in the crankcase changes the viscosity of the oil and may result in engine damage if you continue to operate the mower without changing the oil. I know this because it happened to me. It also smoked as you described. My problem was solved with a rebuild of the carburetor. I acted quickly and the engine was not damaged.


#11

bijiminy

bijiminy

dcgrazier said:
I highly recommend you change the oil and the oil filter. An over filled crankcase is a sign of gas leaking into the crankcase from the carburetor. Gas in the crankcase changes the viscosity of the oil and may result in engine damage if you continue to operate the mower without changing the oil. I know this because it happened to me. It also smoked as you described. My problem was solved with a rebuild of the carburetor. I acted quickly and the engine was not damaged.
Click to expand...
Will do. Thanks


#12

bijiminy

bijiminy

gainestruk said:
The seat on carburetor is not cutting fuel off, it let fuel drain into sump, change oil if you have a fuel shut off use it evertime you shut off engine, you can take off bottom of carburetor and clean plunger that shuts off fuel when you turn off engine, if plunger missing someone clipped it off thinking it wasn't working.
Click to expand...
I took off the bowl. The float and chamber were clean, but I found some parts. Maybe someone can tell me what they are. I fear my engine is already gone though even though I can turn it by hand. Maybe it's not free enough for the starter to turn. I'm going to try to post a link.

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#13

B

bertsmobile1

They are the carburettor jets and means your carburettor neeeds a rebuild kit because once they fall out all by themselves they are cactus because you can not get just new O rings .


#14

7394

7394

Checking the oil BEFORE use is the key. You would have spotted an over full condition then.

I never even start my old Flathead Briggs push mow without first checking the oil, let alone my Z.


#15

B

bertsmobile1

Every now & then I get a box of 3" round keyrings
I put a Berts tag & their key on it and when I leave the mower I hang the key over the dipstick .
It works about 1/2 the time


#16

7394

7394

Bert- That's good. I like that..


#17

bijiminy

bijiminy

I think this mower is self destructing. I think Generac went out of business. To me, it’s no wonder why. Anyone else had experience with Generac? To tell the truth, I’m now gunshy of all gas powered mowers. Never had any problems with my diesel


#18

wrldtvlr

wrldtvlr

Generac is still in business and doing well, although it doesn't appear they make standard mowers any more. Standby Power is apparently doing very well - especially in California. There's some thought they may bid for parts of B&S.


#19

bijiminy

bijiminy

bertsmobile1 said:
They are the carburettor jets and means your carburettor neeeds a rebuild kit because once they fall out all by themselves they are cactus because you can not get just new O rings .
Click to expand...
Could this have caused the white smoke all the sudden?


#20

B

bertsmobile1

Yes
Usually too much fuel will cause black smoke ( like running a hot engine with the choke on ) .
But way too much fuel dilutes the oil & washes it of the cylinder walls causing it to burn
Oil moke is more dense than fuel smoke so the white obscures the black.
Regardless, it needs to be fixed.
It works a lot better to FIX ONE THING AT A TIME because one problem can mask another.
So if new jets cause he mower to run much better, but not eliminate the the wite smoke you have eliminated one possible cause.
Excessive fuel can also get into the sump diluting the oil that is in there and that will also cause lots of white smoke.


#21

S

slomo

bijiminy said:
I didn’t add oil to it. It was just serviced when I bought the mower. I never heard of hydrolocking the engine. I don’t think it’s that overfilled, but it’s possible. Like I said, I’m going to lower the oil level. Thanks for the response. Maybe I should add a stop cock to my fuel line.
Click to expand...
ALL mowers need a fuel shutoff valve. Use it every mow.
Definitely dump the oil and put manufacturers recommended grade in there. Never run an engine that is overfilled with oil. Don't wait for a new starter.
Senseless to use 93 octane fuel in a lawn mower engine. Most have 8:1 compression. 87 real gas is perfect.

slomo


#22

bijiminy

bijiminy

I get that I need to check the oil before every startup, and I'm adding a shutoff valve. I'm changing the oil before I do anything. I'm using 10w30. The dealer said that was fine with this mower though the manufacturer recommended 15w40. The manual also says 10w30 is okay. I'll see if the engine turns with the old starter and new oil, but I'm guessing it won't. I'm not going to turn on the gas just to check the starter, because I now know I will need a new carburetor or a rebuild. Thanks for all the responses.


#23

bijiminy

bijiminy

bertsmobile1 said:
Yes
Usually too much fuel will cause black smoke ( like running a hot engine with the choke on ) .
But way too much fuel dilutes the oil & washes it of the cylinder walls causing it to burn
Oil moke is more dense than fuel smoke so the white obscures the black.
Regardless, it needs to be fixed.
It works a lot better to FIX ONE THING AT A TIME because one problem can mask another.
So if new jets cause he mower to run much better, but not eliminate the the wite smoke you have eliminated one possible cause.
Excessive fuel can also get into the sump diluting the oil that is in there and that will also cause lots of white smoke.
Click to expand...
Thanks Bert


#24

bijiminy

bijiminy

Okay. Here's the issue: I have a Nikki carburetor OE4215. Apparently, I can get the Carburetor Overhaul Kit OG2009, but I cannot get the Carburetor Bowl Gasket Kit OG2010 or the Solenoid Fuel Shut Off OF1932, which I think I really need. My question is, can I substitute Carburetor OG4610 for the OE4215? I think they are both for the GTV-760 Generac 004864-0. I'd really like some expert confirmation


#25

B

bertsmobile1

The fuel shut off solenoid does not shut off the fuel.
It was not needed from day 1
It just jambs a ram into the main jet to stop the fuel entering the main jet & feeding the engine.
However it does not stop the fuel over flowing into the engine if he float valve fails .
Some clot with poo between their ears trying to sould like they kew what they were blabbering about on You Tube said the solenoid stops fuel entering the carb about a decade ago and like most BS it has become an urban factoid.


#26

bijiminy

bijiminy

bertsmobile1 said:
The fuel shut off solenoid does not shut off the fuel.
It was not needed from day 1
It just jambs a ram into the main jet to stop the fuel entering the main jet & feeding the engine.
However it does not stop the fuel over flowing into the engine if he float valve fails .
Some clot with poo between their ears trying to sould like they kew what they were blabbering about on You Tube said the solenoid stops fuel entering the carb about a decade ago and like most BS it has become an urban factoid.
Click to expand...
Looks like I don't need the Solenoid Fuel Shut Off. I don't think I can rebuild this carburetor, in any case, due to the o rings supporting the jets are not part of the kit. I think I'm going to have to pursue another carburetor. Hopefully, this OG4610 is a newer version of the OE4215. Thanks Bert


#27

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

www.ebay.com

Briggs Nikki Carburetor Jet O-Ring 10-Pack - #54835 | eBay

Fits Jets In Single or 2-bbl Nikki Carburetor's. With Briggs & Stratton Engines.
www.ebay.com


#28

bijiminy

bijiminy

Hammermechanicman said:
www.ebay.com

Briggs Nikki Carburetor Jet O-Ring 10-Pack - #54835 | eBay

Fits Jets In Single or 2-bbl Nikki Carburetor's. With Briggs & Stratton Engines.
www.ebay.com
Click to expand...
Thank you a lot


#29

S

slomo

bertsmobile1 said:
The fuel shut off solenoid does not shut off the fuel.
It was not needed from day 1
It just jambs a ram into the main jet to stop the fuel entering the main jet & feeding the engine.
However it does not stop the fuel over flowing into the engine if he float valve fails .
Some clot with poo between their ears trying to sould like they kew what they were blabbering about on You Tube said the solenoid stops fuel entering the carb about a decade ago and like most BS it has become an urban factoid.
Click to expand...
The fuel solenoid IS needed from all days on larger engines. It stops after-run, forward firing conditions when killing the engine. Why do you think Briggs, Kawasaki and several others install them on their engines? Their engineers know what they are doing.

Didn't see anyone talk about a fuel solenoid. I was talking about a valve that shuts off fuel.

slomo


#30

B

bertsmobile1

Bijiminy mentioned replacing the solenoid in post 24
I do try to keep answers relevant .
The solenoid is an EPA requirement to keep engines within Cal emission regulations and not emitt any unburned fuel into the atmosphere.
If you throttle down for 30 sec before shut down there is no after fire .
And es I fit taps to every mower that I service & encourage customers to use it every mow.


#31

bijiminy

bijiminy

What would have caused my jets to drop out, and can I reuse them? They don't look damaged, but the o rings are missing. I ordered some new o rings just in case someone says I can.

I just got through changing my oil. Specs says 2.4 qts. I put in 2 qts and it's still over the high mark. I don't think I'll put less than 2 qts. Dipstick must be inaccurate. I added a stopcock to the fuel line. Seemed to turn easier with the new oil.


#32

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

The niki 2 barrel carbs are famous for the jet o rings failing and the jets falling out. You can reuse the jets, tjey are fine. Some if the briggs engines have slifhtly different siE jets. Don't know about generac engines.


#33

bijiminy

bijiminy

Hammermechanicman said:
The niki 2 barrel carbs are famous for the jet o rings failing and the jets falling out. You can reuse the jets, tjey are fine. Some if the briggs engines have slifhtly different siE jets. Don't know about generac engines.
Click to expand...
This mower is new to me. I was thinking maybe the previous owner used E10 gasoline. I bought some aftermarket 0 rings. Maybe they will work better. Thanks for the information. I’m learning a lot on this forum.


#34

bijiminy

bijiminy

This is a follow up to my post. I was unable to get the carburetor replacement for the Nikki OE4215. The vendor sent me the wrong carburetor, so I decided to replace my dropped out jets, using new o rings. As it turns out, the starter was also weak, so I replaced the starter. The engine fired right up with the new starter and o rings. No smoke. My question now is: which engine manufacturers use these same type of jets, in guess all in Nikki carburetors, held in by rubber o rings? It seems a set up for failure.


#35

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Every niki carb comes through the shop with any running issues gets new orings. I keep a dozen or so on hand and this kit.

www.ebay.com

54832 Briggs & Stratton Nikki V Twin Carburetor Rebuild Kit | eBay

Briggs & Stratton Nikki V Twin Carburetor Rebuild Kit - #54832. Nikki Two Barrel Carburetor Rebuild Kit #54832. so you dont have to try and find the correct ones for your carburetor. This kit includes.
www.ebay.com

You can fix 90% of problems with these carbs with this kit. The carb has a couple passages for the idle that are prone to clogging that cause most problems along with the jet o ring thing.


#36

logert gogert

logert gogert

bijiminy said:
93 octane pure gasolin
Click to expand...
wait...they have non-ethanol 93? where do you get it? i can only find non-ethanol 87.


#37

bijiminy

bijiminy

Hammermechanicman said:
Every niki carb comes through the shop with any running issues gets new orings. I keep a dozen or so on hand and this kit.

www.ebay.com

54832 Briggs & Stratton Nikki V Twin Carburetor Rebuild Kit | eBay

Briggs & Stratton Nikki V Twin Carburetor Rebuild Kit - #54832. Nikki Two Barrel Carburetor Rebuild Kit #54832. so you dont have to try and find the correct ones for your carburetor. This kit includes.
www.ebay.com

You can fix 90% of problems with these carbs with this kit. The carb has a couple passages for the idle that are prone to clogging that cause most problems along with the jet o ring thing.
Click to expand...
Is that large O ring for the bowl seal? That seal is the hard one for me to get. Luckily, my old gasket, which I reused, hasn’t leaked yet. Thanks for the reply


#38

wrldtvlr

wrldtvlr

logert gogert said:
wait...they have non-ethanol 93? where do you get it? i can only find non-ethanol 87.
Click to expand...
Availability seems to vary by market. Around here some stations offer non-ethanol 87 at a separate pump while others (like Costco Gas) just make their premium pump non-ethanol.


#39

bijiminy

bijiminy

logert gogert said:
wait...they have non-ethanol 93? where do you get it? i can only find non-ethanol 87.
Click to expand...
I get it at the Pure Oil station in Nashville. Pure is the only ones selling 100% gas around here. There used to be a website devoted to finding stations that sold 100% gas.
https://www.pure-gas.org


#40

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

bijiminy said:
Is that large O ring for the bowl seal? That seal is the hard one for me to get. Luckily, my old gasket, which I reused, hasn’t leaked yet. Thanks for the reply
Click to expand...
Yes it is the bowl seal.


#41

B

bertsmobile1

bijiminy said:
This is a follow up to my post. I was unable to get the carburetor replacement for the Nikki OE4215. The vendor sent me the wrong carburetor, so I decided to replace my dropped out jets, using new o rings. As it turns out, the starter was also weak, so I replaced the starter. The engine fired right up with the new starter and o rings. No smoke. My question now is: which engine manufacturers use these same type of jets, in guess all in Nikki carburetors, held in by rubber o rings? It seems a set up for failure.
Click to expand...
It is just a production variation thing
No 2 parts are ever identical so on some the holes for the jets will be a tiny fraction bigger , and we are talking microns here not thou
Put them together with a O ring that is a couple of micron smaller and you have falling jets .
Some can get pushed back with a slight smeer of rubber grease and light finger pressure
Others need silicon spray and a tap with a punch .

Not all that long ago parts would be matched up according to how far away from the perfect dimension they were but production control has got to the point that 99.99% will interchange just fine .
Back in the old days finding parts that fit perfectly together was a common occurance and was called blueprinting .
Now days it is only done on race engines & aircraft and possibily some military equipment where a cheap selling price is not the driving criteria .

In sound engineering practice every O ring that is removed gets replaced ever time it comes out .
Just like Hammer I buy rings in packets of 200 , usually in a higher grade rubber than the original and replace them as a matter of course
It take about 5 seconds to swap an O ring and cost less than 10¢ it take 30 minutes to remove strip & replace the carb so it is a no brainer


#42

bijiminy

bijiminy

bertsmobile1 said:
It is just a production variation thing
No 2 parts are ever identical so on some the holes for the jets will be a tiny fraction bigger , and we are talking microns here not thou
Put them together with a O ring that is a couple of micron smaller and you have falling jets .
Some can get pushed back with a slight smeer of rubber grease and light finger pressure
Others need silicon spray and a tap with a punch .

Not all that long ago parts would be matched up according to how far away from the perfect dimension they were but production control has got to the point that 99.99% will interchange just fine .
Back in the old days finding parts that fit perfectly together was a common occurance and was called blueprinting .
Now days it is only done on race engines & aircraft and possibily some military equipment where a cheap selling price is not the driving criteria .

In sound engineering practice every O ring that is removed gets replaced ever time it comes out .
Just like Hammer I buy rings in packets of 200 , usually in a higher grade rubber than the original and replace them as a matter of course
It take about 5 seconds to swap an O ring and cost less than 10¢ it take 30 minutes to remove strip & replace the carb so it is a no brainer
Click to expand...
Thanks Bert. I hope these O Rings last awhile. I didn't take off my carb from the engine to replace the O rings as I had no replacement gaskets. It wasn't easy. It seems like the pressure from fuel delivery to the jets would be enough to blow them out.


#43

B

bertsmobile1

Nup,
Just good old gravity and vibrations.


#44

bijiminy

bijiminy

bertsmobile1 said:
Nup,
Just good old gravity and vibrations.
Click to expand...
I thought mine had a fuel pump. Maybe I misunderstood.


#45

StarTech

StarTech

Personally I think it is normal intake vacuum pulling fuel through the jets that does it. At the small volume I change these I just use the o-rings from Kawasaki myself. Now I do change them on every carburetor rebuild since I have found them as Briggs only wants to sell the jets and o-rings as a set.


#46

bijiminy

bijiminy

StarTech said:
Personally I think it is normal intake vacuum pulling fuel through the jets that does it. At the small volume I change these I just use the o-rings from Kawasaki myself. Now I do change them on every carburetor rebuild since I have found them as Briggs only wants to sell the jets and o-rings as a set.
Click to expand...
Do all engine manufacturers I.E. Briggs, Kawasaki, Koehler, Generac use Nikki carburetors and hence jets and O rings?


#47

R

Rivets

<deleted>


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