You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Export thread
Dixie Chopper 2017 Blackhawk HP Kohler Engine Oil Seal Leaking :(
#1
O
oldgearhead
O
oldgearhead
I have received excellent help here for all my previous issues with this mower. Just a rant - DONE with Dixie Choppers.
Here are the details of my mower:
1) Videos online showing individuals installing a screw and pulling out the seal with either pliers or a hammer (like removing a nail). Is this the best way of removing the seal on the lower end of the mower? Better procedures?
2) How do you keep the engine from turning when removing the screw, holding the pulleys? Is this the same method when installing the screw and what torque do you suggest ?
3) What is the best method or tool to use for installing the new seal?
3) Do the pulleys (clutch for blades and drive) require a puller to remove or can you remove them without one? If a puller is required can you suggest what you use for this removal?
Thanks for any assistance. And just as an update from previous posts, the accelerator cable has made it so far without fail, the idler spring is working great, when replacing the idler spring I noticed the LH Parker pulley was not running true. I replaced the LH Parker as I could not find anyone to rebuild (long story). After I replaced the tranny the RH now is leaking and the engine seal is leaking. LOL, what a summer it has been.
Thank you for assisting and listening,
Here are the details of my mower:
- 2017 Dixie Chopper Blackhawk HP 2560 KOE purchased in 2018
- Kohler EZT 740 S/N: 4702504833
1) Videos online showing individuals installing a screw and pulling out the seal with either pliers or a hammer (like removing a nail). Is this the best way of removing the seal on the lower end of the mower? Better procedures?
2) How do you keep the engine from turning when removing the screw, holding the pulleys? Is this the same method when installing the screw and what torque do you suggest ?
3) What is the best method or tool to use for installing the new seal?
3) Do the pulleys (clutch for blades and drive) require a puller to remove or can you remove them without one? If a puller is required can you suggest what you use for this removal?
Thanks for any assistance. And just as an update from previous posts, the accelerator cable has made it so far without fail, the idler spring is working great, when replacing the idler spring I noticed the LH Parker pulley was not running true. I replaced the LH Parker as I could not find anyone to rebuild (long story). After I replaced the tranny the RH now is leaking and the engine seal is leaking. LOL, what a summer it has been.
Thank you for assisting and listening,
#3
B
Bertrrr
B
Bertrrr
You can remove the seal pretty much any way you want , it's no longer being used so don't worry about destroying it in the process, I've pulled many by punching a sharp screwdriver or something and prying it out of the fit. Be sure and dress the whole area / shaft and seal fit with emory cloth or find sand paper
#4
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
1) take a photo & accurately measure how deep in the hole the old seal is so the new one can go back on the same place
2) the PTO & drive pulley will just pull strait down off, it may be rusted on a bit so require some hard pulling, do not have your face directly under it because like tomato sauce ( ketchup to some ) it will stay there then suddenly come off with a rush .
3) as Bertrrr mentioned screws, picks screwdrivers all work but be careful you do not drive anything in too deep & damage the surfaces behind the seal
I usually drill a tiny hole with my Dremmel tool then screw in a self tapper & pull with a wrecking bar against a block of wood
Some times I need 2 holes & screws
4) clean the whole area really well before you pull the seal
5) as BERTrrr also mentioned clean & polish the PTO shaft
6) wrap the shaft with a small amount of cling wrap where the key slot is to prevent it damaging the lip of the seal
7) coat the inner surface of the seal with lalonin grease or petrolium jelly , be generous, slop some on the shaft as well.
8) If you have a 1" shaft then you can use a 1" drive socket to knock it in , I have a lather so I have drifts with close fitting centre hoe so the seal has to go in square , otherwise it is a small hammer for the initial insertion followed by a 1/4 pin punch placed tight against the outer edge
If you hit it in the middle of the flat section you will bend the steel backing and the seal lip may distort & leak
Allow all day to do it and do not rush of this effort may end up as a trial run.
2) the PTO & drive pulley will just pull strait down off, it may be rusted on a bit so require some hard pulling, do not have your face directly under it because like tomato sauce ( ketchup to some ) it will stay there then suddenly come off with a rush .
3) as Bertrrr mentioned screws, picks screwdrivers all work but be careful you do not drive anything in too deep & damage the surfaces behind the seal
I usually drill a tiny hole with my Dremmel tool then screw in a self tapper & pull with a wrecking bar against a block of wood
Some times I need 2 holes & screws
4) clean the whole area really well before you pull the seal
5) as BERTrrr also mentioned clean & polish the PTO shaft
6) wrap the shaft with a small amount of cling wrap where the key slot is to prevent it damaging the lip of the seal
7) coat the inner surface of the seal with lalonin grease or petrolium jelly , be generous, slop some on the shaft as well.
8) If you have a 1" shaft then you can use a 1" drive socket to knock it in , I have a lather so I have drifts with close fitting centre hoe so the seal has to go in square , otherwise it is a small hammer for the initial insertion followed by a 1/4 pin punch placed tight against the outer edge
If you hit it in the middle of the flat section you will bend the steel backing and the seal lip may distort & leak
Allow all day to do it and do not rush of this effort may end up as a trial run.
#5
O
oldgearhead
O
oldgearhead
Thank you, I will review this in preparation for the seal replacement.See page 27 in Service Manual below for oil leak possibilities.
#6
O
oldgearhead
O
oldgearhead
Thank you.You can remove the seal pretty much any way you want , it's no longer being used so don't worry about destroying it in the process, I've pulled many by punching a sharp screwdriver or something and prying it out of the fit. Be sure and dress the whole area / shaft and seal fit with emory cloth or find sand paper
#7
O
oldgearhead
O
oldgearhead
Thank you. I'll keep everyone informed once I receive the seal and attempt the change. I appreciate the assistance.1) take a photo & accurately measure how deep in the hole the old seal is so the new one can go back on the same place
2) the PTO & drive pulley will just pull strait down off, it may be rusted on a bit so require some hard pulling, do not have your face directly under it because like tomato sauce ( ketchup to some ) it will stay there then suddenly come off with a rush .
3) as Bertrrr mentioned screws, picks screwdrivers all work but be careful you do not drive anything in too deep & damage the surfaces behind the seal
I usually drill a tiny hole with my Dremmel tool then screw in a self tapper & pull with a wrecking bar against a block of wood
Some times I need 2 holes & screws
4) clean the whole area really well before you pull the seal
5) as BERTrrr also mentioned clean & polish the PTO shaft
6) wrap the shaft with a small amount of cling wrap where the key slot is to prevent it damaging the lip of the seal
7) coat the inner surface of the seal with lalonin grease or petrolium jelly , be generous, slop some on the shaft as well.
8) If you have a 1" shaft then you can use a 1" drive socket to knock it in , I have a lather so I have drifts with close fitting centre hoe so the seal has to go in square , otherwise it is a small hammer for the initial insertion followed by a 1/4 pin punch placed tight against the outer edge
If you hit it in the middle of the flat section you will bend the steel backing and the seal lip may distort & leak
Allow all day to do it and do not rush of this effort may end up as a trial run.
#8
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
The only thing I have to add to the other posts is, what I do when I have a long crankshaft where the socket is not deep enough. I have made myself a variety of setting tools out of pieces of pipe. Each one is a different ID and about 8” long. I round the end which goes against the seal, making sure it is smooth with no burrs. Being longer it is easy to see how deep I am setting the seal, and it is easier to hold on to.
#9
S
slomo
Having said that, I would keep away from Dixie's anyway. There is a huge section on here about them and all the problems. Cubs are the same.
S
slomo
All you talked about was engine issues. Dixie doesn't make the engine.Just a rant - DONE with Dixie Choppers.
Having said that, I would keep away from Dixie's anyway. There is a huge section on here about them and all the problems. Cubs are the same.
#10
O
oldgearhead
O
oldgearhead
Thank you for the extra hint. I appreciate it.The only thing I have to add to the other posts is, what I do when I have a long crankshaft where the socket is not deep enough. I have made myself a variety of setting tools out of pieces of pipe. Each one is a different ID and about 8” long. I round the end which goes against the seal, making sure it is smooth with no burrs. Being longer it is easy to see how deep I am setting the seal, and it is easier to hold on to.
#11
O
oldgearhead
O
oldgearhead
True Slomo, regarding the engine. I probably was just a little heated it seems this summer every week is another issue. I appreciate the comment/thoughts.All you talked about was engine issues. Dixie doesn't make the engine.
Having said that, I would keep away from Dixie's anyway. There is a huge section on here about them and all the problems. Cubs are the same.
#12
StarTech
StarTech
No way a 1" socket is going to work even if the crankshaft was 1" OD. Besides the crankshaft OD is 1-1/8"
Go get a 12" section of Schedule 40 2" PVC pipe. A local plumbing shop probably has this just laying around. Both ends need to be cut squarely. You may need to sand one end a little so easy slips in the seal area as it OD is 2-3/8" which is also the seal OD diameter. The seal is a TC type which is rubber covered. Start the seal by hand at first as not roll the inner lips and loose the inner seal spring. Once started use the 2" PVC pipe and a hammer to drive the seal in evenly and finish flush.
Go get a 12" section of Schedule 40 2" PVC pipe. A local plumbing shop probably has this just laying around. Both ends need to be cut squarely. You may need to sand one end a little so easy slips in the seal area as it OD is 2-3/8" which is also the seal OD diameter. The seal is a TC type which is rubber covered. Start the seal by hand at first as not roll the inner lips and loose the inner seal spring. Once started use the 2" PVC pipe and a hammer to drive the seal in evenly and finish flush.
#13
O
oldgearhead
O
oldgearhead
OK....I received the seal and took everything apart and replaced the seal. I think it took me about 5 hours overall. Not exactly confident of this fix and I will explain in the following sentences. BUT on the positive, it has not leaked after an hour of running and if I do have to replace it again; I'll know how to do it up front, from experience. Thanks to everyone again, for making my first attempt go very, very smooth.
- Everything came apart like a text book. Believe it or not, what took me the longest was trying to get the wire connector apart for the clutch. Several times I wanted to cut that #$@!, but finally got the two halves apart. I obviously had a heck of a time trying to separate the two halves. Pulleys slid off without an issue.
- Now the part I have several questions about. The seal itself was loose (spinning easily when touched) and bottomed out. I used a small pick to pull it out and as it got closer it tightened. I used the several recommendations of drilling a small hole, using a sheet metal screw and the old seal popped right out. I did minor clean (overall everything looked in good condition) up of the shaft and seal area.
- As the seal was bottomed out on the shaft and "oil pan", I could not get good measurements on how deep to place it. I reviewed the manual and it indicated ~1/4 inch deep. ( I later saw "star tech" comments and wish I would have seen them earlier, regarding depth. I would have left it flush). Installing the seal I used the PVC technique. The seal went in way to easy and I was concerned it might start spinning again and moving. I had considered using lock tight on the seal but have never done so in the past (on cars) and read it was a real bear if you had to remove it again.
- I assembled everything and ran it...no leaks so far.
- Removing the pulleys with the impact wrench was no issue. HOW do you torque the bolt when reassembling? Every time I tried tightening the bolt the engine would move. How would I keep the engine from moving when tightening the bolt? ( I finally used the impact wrench again and tightened the bolt to some unknown torque - I was desperate to get the mower going again)
- IF the seal were to start leaking again, would the use of locktite 641 (or???) help to stabilize / hold the seal either flush or within the required depth?
- Anything I could have done differently?
#14
S
sidemouse
S
sidemouse
I would NOT use screws to pull out the old seal, I have done so in the past and ended up marking the crankshaft with the threads of the screws and left deep marks in the steel thus the new seal ended up leaking in some sort of order. And some might think the crankshaft won't mark so easily but what I ended up doing is ordering an actual crankshaft seal puller tool, and even with that I recommend being careful but the last thing you want to do is end up with a crankshaft that isn't perfectly smooth like machine factory finish.
#15
B
bertsmobile1
As for seal pullers, they work fine when the crank is out but are useless if the crank is still in as they are designed to go under the lip from the shaft end then lever from the opposite side of the seal .
I have been using screws & wrecking bars for over 60 years without any problems and that includes hundreds done on vintage motorcycles with very old & easily damaged castings
Quite dome time ago I bought a cheap set of mechanics pry bars and cut a slot in them to go under the head of the pan headed self tapping screws
I also use a Dremmel tool with flexiable drive to make the holes for the screws so I have great control over the position of the holes .
Since the widespread misuse of Locktite by every idiot with a spanner in his hands I also always remove seals from a hot casting
The other benefit of apply a lot of heat is that makes the cases uncomfortable so encourages the use of hardwood blocks to spread the load applied by the pry bars and prevent case damage .
B
bertsmobile1
Not meaning to be judgemental but that sounds like careless use of screws or using the wrong screws.I would NOT use screws to pull out the old seal, I have done so in the past and ended up marking the crankshaft with the threads of the screws and left deep marks in the steel thus the new seal ended up leaking in some sort of order. And some might think the crankshaft won't mark so easily but what I ended up doing is ordering an actual crankshaft seal puller tool, and even with that I recommend being careful but the last thing you want to do is end up with a crankshaft that isn't perfectly smooth like machine factory finish.
As for seal pullers, they work fine when the crank is out but are useless if the crank is still in as they are designed to go under the lip from the shaft end then lever from the opposite side of the seal .
I have been using screws & wrecking bars for over 60 years without any problems and that includes hundreds done on vintage motorcycles with very old & easily damaged castings
Quite dome time ago I bought a cheap set of mechanics pry bars and cut a slot in them to go under the head of the pan headed self tapping screws
I also use a Dremmel tool with flexiable drive to make the holes for the screws so I have great control over the position of the holes .
Since the widespread misuse of Locktite by every idiot with a spanner in his hands I also always remove seals from a hot casting
The other benefit of apply a lot of heat is that makes the cases uncomfortable so encourages the use of hardwood blocks to spread the load applied by the pry bars and prevent case damage .
#16
S
sidemouse
All I can tell you is about an hour of careful grinding with a dremel and more than a few polishing bits got it pretty smooth, but not factory smooth... And it leaks.
I've ordered a speedi-sleeve along with a new seal, also I'm about to find out I suppose, if that bit about the seal puller is true because...
Well heck if the crank is out I can pull the seal basically by hand, why even make pullers then?
Not being critical, want to learn but it is frustrating following these youtube videos just to end up with more problems... This is the second crankshaft that got "touched" by screw threads... You speak of wrong screws, and the shaft being in...
Not sure what the "right" screw would be, if a screw goes even slightly sideways (and that is VERY easy) it can dig into the shaft.
S
sidemouse
Maybe...Not meaning to be judgemental but that sounds like careless use of screws or using the wrong screws.
All I can tell you is about an hour of careful grinding with a dremel and more than a few polishing bits got it pretty smooth, but not factory smooth... And it leaks.
I've ordered a speedi-sleeve along with a new seal, also I'm about to find out I suppose, if that bit about the seal puller is true because...
As for seal pullers, they work fine when the crank is out but are useless if the crank is still in as they are designed to go under the lip from the shaft end then lever from the opposite side of the seal .
Well heck if the crank is out I can pull the seal basically by hand, why even make pullers then?
Not being critical, want to learn but it is frustrating following these youtube videos just to end up with more problems... This is the second crankshaft that got "touched" by screw threads... You speak of wrong screws, and the shaft being in...
Not sure what the "right" screw would be, if a screw goes even slightly sideways (and that is VERY easy) it can dig into the shaft.
#17
S
sidemouse
S
sidemouse
All mowers develop problems, especially after the first thousand hours but even before that... All brands have strengths and weaknesses, haven't seen a mower that lasts forever and never has problems... Every mower has its achilles heel, sometimes a few, these are brand specific but all brands have them... What affects one brand may or may not affect another, brand loyalty can pay off big here in the repairs and parts department as the heels of one mower will likely transfer to the next. Most brands "heels" run across their entire product line or at least all the same models.All you talked about was engine issues. Dixie doesn't make the engine.
Having said that, I would keep away from Dixie's anyway. There is a huge section on here about them and all the problems. Cubs are the same.
#18
B
bertsmobile1
Seal lips are very fragile and very easily damaged by things like the edges of key slots which is why I use either food warp or heat shrink to cover that section & a lot of petrolium jelly on the seal & shaft when installing
As for removal with screws even if it goes in at 45 degrees it will not touch the region where the seal lip runs
The problem is getting the hole in the right place which is very close to the OUTSIDE of the seal because that is where it is being held by the crankcase and using a Dermel with flex drive allows the hole to be strait which helps
Holding it with a pair of pliers and using a screwdriver that is longer than the protrusion of the crank shaft also helps
The type of screw also makes a big difference.
People confuse self tapping with self drilling
So you need a screw with a parallel shaft and deep threads ( screws for plastic are perfect )
A screw with a tapered shaft will not do the job as it bends the hole edges down
Self tapping screws have a small pitch so the threads are very close to perpendicular to the shaft
Self drilling ( or self embedding ) screws have a large pitch like a drill bit .
B
bertsmobile1
What most shops do is fit the seal a bit shallower in the hole so the lip runs on a different section of the shaftMaybe...
All I can tell you is about an hour of careful grinding with a dremel and more than a few polishing bits got it pretty smooth, but not factory smooth... And it leaks.
I've ordered a speedi-sleeve along with a new seal, also I'm about to find out I suppose, if that bit about the seal puller is true because...
Well heck if the crank is out I can pull the seal basically by hand, why even make pullers then?
Not being critical, want to learn but it is frustrating following these youtube videos just to end up with more problems... This is the second crankshaft that got "touched" by screw threads... You speak of wrong screws, and the shaft being in...
Not sure what the "right" screw would be, if a screw goes even slightly sideways (and that is VERY easy) it can dig into the shaft.
Seal lips are very fragile and very easily damaged by things like the edges of key slots which is why I use either food warp or heat shrink to cover that section & a lot of petrolium jelly on the seal & shaft when installing
As for removal with screws even if it goes in at 45 degrees it will not touch the region where the seal lip runs
The problem is getting the hole in the right place which is very close to the OUTSIDE of the seal because that is where it is being held by the crankcase and using a Dermel with flex drive allows the hole to be strait which helps
Holding it with a pair of pliers and using a screwdriver that is longer than the protrusion of the crank shaft also helps
The type of screw also makes a big difference.
People confuse self tapping with self drilling
So you need a screw with a parallel shaft and deep threads ( screws for plastic are perfect )
A screw with a tapered shaft will not do the job as it bends the hole edges down
Self tapping screws have a small pitch so the threads are very close to perpendicular to the shaft
Self drilling ( or self embedding ) screws have a large pitch like a drill bit .
#19
H
hlw49
H
hlw49
Work for a Dixie Chopper dealer a lot of the complains I see are from people trying to use them as a bulldozer. They then blame it on the mower. I know this is on the older models late 90's and early 2000's. I have replaced several engines on these models that they spend 4K on them must be a really horrible mower to spend that much on them. Go figureAll you talked about was engine issues. Dixie doesn't make the engine.
Having said that, I would keep away from Dixie's anyway. There is a huge section on here about them and all the problems. Cubs are the same.
#20
H
hlw49
H
hlw49
I own a X1901 50 inch cut 2000 model and XXW2500 72 inch cut 1997 model. Won't give them up.