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I have purchased 3 mowers in the last 7 years. These mowers were not the ultra expensive commercial models but the home owner models in the 250.00 dollar range with Honda motors purchased at the large Hdwe stores. I live in the country, my lawn is not one of the ultra groomed showpeices you see however I try to keep it presentable. I have a commercial z-turn that I use for the lawn and the pusher is used for trim and around fences, borders, etc. All three of these motors suffered a bent crankshaft! I will excuse one of these incidents completely as the buried portion of an old road sign was hit while mowing an elderly relatives lawn. Completely unaware of this piece of metal. This incident was hard and I expected an unhappy ending when it happened but the other 2 were light strikes. My neighbor had a brand new Briggs and used less than one tank of gas and the same thing happened to it, a bent crank. A friend had a Kawa. with the same results. I am 57 years old and grew up mowing lawns in my neighbor hood. Never bent a crank before or ever heard of it. I have never even sheared a flywheel key-way although a friend did! As a kid mowing lawns I hit rocks, boards, steel pieces, just about everything that can be named with the same results. Restart the motor and resume mowing. Having the results I recently have had I called the companies and discussed this with them. They all admitted they see several bent crankshafts but fall short of taking any blame for it. The old mechanics place the blame on the bottom shaft that extends below the mower that the blade attaches to. Mulching mowers have longer shafts and thus when an object is hit with the blade the stress is greater resulting in a bent crankshaft. They advised me to find an non-mulching mower or a mower with a short shaft under the deck. Good Luck on that one! Am I and my friends the only ones that have had this problem. Like to here some mechanics point of view as I mentioned earlier I have spoken with some local mechanics just like to hear some other opinions.

I can see the logic behind your assertion that the longer shafts are at least partly responsible for more bent shafts. However, I have never bent a shaft on a mower. Like you I hit many things with mowers as a kid and the mowers always started right back up with no apparent ill effects. When we first moved into our house 12 years ago there was quite a bit of half buried junk in the back yard that abruptly stopped the mower on more than one ocassion and that mower, a 1998 self propelled mulcher model, also always started right back up and ran strong until this year when I traded it for a lightweight mulching pusher to use as a trim mower now that I have a rider. Our yard is now free of obstacles, so I don't forsee hitting anything with it that will bend the shaft, but I generally think things just aren't made as well as they used to be. For the most part we've become a throw away society that replaces rather than repairs, so why would manufacturers want to go to the extra expense of making something that is durable and will last a lifetime when hardly anyone is concerned about keeping anything for a lifetime anymore? Or have we become a throw away society because we've become conditioned to cheaply made products? Kinda like which came first the chicken or the egg.

Oddball said:

I can see the logic behind your assertion that the longer shafts are at least partly responsible for more bent shafts.

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This blame? was pointed out to me by a mechanic and also a factory rep. for one of the major manufactures while holding a special promo day at a local store. Just lucky for me and not for him I happened by, as I bent his ear. I asked him why couldn't make a sacrificial piece that could be replaced inexpensively before you destroy a motor. Similar to an old shear pin. I know Honda tillers use a shear pin to prevent destroying the tiller. He said all the things you'd expect a PR type to say "I take your info back with me and see that it get to the right people". Wrote my name down and all. Never heard a thing back. Really didn't expect to and would have been shocked if I got a reply. He did admit directly they do see or hear of a lot of bent cranks.

Oddball said:

However, I have never bent a shaft on a mower. Like you I hit many things with mowers as a kid and the mowers always started right back up with no apparent ill effects. When we first moved into our house 12 years ago there was quite a bit of half buried junk in the back yard that abruptly stopped the mower on more than one ocassion and that mower, a 1998 self propelled mulcher model, also always started right back up and ran strong until this year when I traded it for a lightweight mulching pusher to use as a trim mower now that I have a rider. Our yard is now free of obstacles, so I don't forsee hitting anything with it that will bend the shaft, but I generally think things just aren't made as well as they used to be.

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I had a very hard time telling someone just how light these strikes were. As soon as I mentioned I had hit something they went into a he must have ran over a fire hydrant mode!!! You should have heard some of the remarks I got. It was as if no one believed me. Although I guess after dealing with the public in Law Enforcement for nearly 35 years I do know people will lye.

Oddball said:

For the most part we've become a throw away society that replaces rather than repairs, so why would manufacturers want to go to the extra expense of making something that is durable and will last a lifetime when hardly anyone is concerned about keeping anything for a lifetime anymore? Or have we become a throw away society because we've become conditioned to cheaply made products? Kinda like which came first the chicken or the egg.

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I agree with the throw away society, I do a lot of repairs on my equipment (tractors, implements, mowers, vehicles) and half my time is spent attempting to diagnose some piece or part that is put on the machine to prevent me from hurting myself ie got to be setting on the seat to start the mower, clutch petal has to be depressed, mower in neutral, deck not engaged etc. all that stuff that's "for our own good":wink:

I asked him why couldn't make a sacrificial piece that could be replaced inexpensively before you destroy a motor. Similar to an old shear pin.

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This is what should occur. It make sense for the homeowner and the manufacturer.

I have sheared the key on mine several times by hitting absolutley stationary objects. My mower still runs, with a few unnecessary vibrations, but works as it should. It's an MTD.

RobertBrown said:

This is what should occur. It make sense for the homeowner and the manufacturer.

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I agree that would be the smart thing for them to do if they were concerned about it. I doubt they are though.

You can either make a push mower as inexpensive as possible or add features...
The more features that are added the farther it moves away from inexpensive...
the simplest and most reliable method of isolating the engine from the blade is by using a belt drive with a spindle mounted blade... :smile:KennyV

Mulching mowers have longer shafts?? That is news to me. My last four or five walk behind push mowers ahve been mulchers but I have never noticed the shafts under the deck being longer. I have hit tennis ball sized rocks with at least three of mine and ruined the blades but after installing a new blade they all ran fine, with the exception of the Craftsman model that I had to replace the flywheel key.

Don't blame the mower, if you mow over something that the blade hits, it's OPERATOR ERROR and not the fault of the mower itself. PAY ATTENTION and if you do maybe you won't hit something. A ROAD SIGN???? Jeez, how obvious. Why was the sign post still there in the first place?? DUUUUHHHH.....:confused2:

I, like the OP have noticed a marked increase in bent shafts on push mowers - and like the OP, I never heard of a sheared key until the last few years. Now, bent shafts and sheared keys are everywhere.

People haven't gotten dumber with mowing habits. I'd say we hit just as many (or as few) rocks and solid objects as ever. My personal thought is they aren't tempering the crank like they used to.

Like JD - I haven't seen the shafts on a convertible mower being any longer than a standard mower. But, my dad bent the crank just last year on his brand new weed-eater standard (non-mulching) mower. Yes, he hit a small stump (by wheelie-ing the mower up, and letting it down to knock down weeds). But, I've seen worse bent blades, without crank damage. He bent it a good 1/2".

JDgreen said:

Mulching mowers have longer shafts?? That is news to me.......

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Just quoting mechanics? I will say I now have a cheapo yard sale machine and it has almost no shaft hanging below??? I have seen this machine new for about $100.00 If I have the opportunity I will do some measuring.

JDgreen said:

Don't blame the mower, if you mow over something that the blade hits, it's OPERATOR ERROR and not the fault of the mower itself. PAY ATTENTION and if you do maybe you won't hit something. A ROAD SIGN???? Jeez, how obvious. Why was the sign post still there in the first place?? DUUUUHHHH.....:confused2:

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JDGreen I suppose you would have needed to be there to really see or know just how little that stob was that ruined the last mower. Then I think you would have agreed with me 100%. I had actually cut over it before with no problems. The time of the "hit" was caused when I mowed in a little different direction causing this stob to be in the highest part of the mowing strip and thus making contact with the blade. Secondly, I have never tried to evade my part of this equation (blame) only that the consequences shouldn't be so severe.

Your statement for me to pay attention....I actually haven't hit any tennis ball size rocks so I guess I'm OK here:wink:

The road sign was left by the highway dept as part of a road sign assembly. There is about a foot between a rock ringed flower bed and the edge of the road. The buried piece of sign post is in this 1ft area. The buried portion of road sign is for the above ground portion to slide down inside of and bolted down. The road dept (I assume) removed the top portion and left the lower part) Just wasn't visible and as mentioned I knew that this was bad from the start and expected bad results. I didn't complain to anyone just went out and purchased another mower. It actually still runs but it will shake your eyeballs loose. Since I was happy with that mower I bought another. Actually different brand motor but same motor.

One thing that might contribute is that maybe the quality of the steel in the cranks isn't what it used to be. Chalk it up to trying to save a buck here and there.

And just because the guy you talked to said he was a rep and a mechanic, that doesn't mean he's all that knowledgeable on the subject at hand. I've known reps who couldn't find their a$$ with a map and a flashlight. Unless you KNOW his qualifications, take his word cautiously. And while I'm new here, I'm not new to forums(I belong to 12 others!). I'd take these guys word over a rep, if i didn't think he looked experienced(read "young whipper snapper").

Stan

Mini Motors said:

One thing that might contribute is that maybe the quality of the steel in the cranks isn't what it used to be. Chalk it up to trying to save a buck here and there.

And just because the guy you talked to said he was a rep and a mechanic, that doesn't mean he's all that knowledgeable on the subject at hand. I've known reps who couldn't find their a$$ with a map and a flashlight. Unless you KNOW his qualifications, take his word cautiously. And while I'm new here, I'm not new to forums(I belong to 12 others!). I'd take these guys word over a rep, if i didn't think he looked experienced(read "young whipper snapper").

Stan

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Could be you're 100% right. I don't type real well so there are several things that don't get brought up in my post to the detail that might help understand things. I as mentioned in my first post I called the companies of these mowers and talked with the Consumer Relations. That is except for the mower that hit the post and that story is by now well documented. One of the consumer employees who answered the phone for the a company encouraged me to write letters to certain people within the company. She gave me names, addresses and titles of each. She said she hears this all to often. Also several mechanics were visited during these years in my quest for a reasonable solution and replacement. Another popular excuse used by some sales people and/or mechanics and maybe a valid one is the HP out put of the current production mowers. It's not uncommon for push mowers to be 6.5 HP now where when I was a kid mowing a 3-3.5 was more the norm. I don't know if the HP measurments are done the same now as they used to be?

As far as chalking it up to saving a buck here and there? Stan I sure hope I don't end up making people mad at this thread but a 250.00 mower just to be used to trim where I can't get into with my larger mower is in my opinion reasonable.

bones66,

I think you're onto something with the HP. I hadn't thought of that. When they hit, they'll hit with a lot more force than 3.5 HP........but my dad's mower was 3.5.....and like I said, I've seen blades on older mowers bent worse than my dad's, with no engine damage.

Also, I'm wondering the steel they use to make the blades - if it's harder (to keep an edge longer), it'll do more damage if you hit something than a 'springier' steel......

I hadn't thought about HP either. Something else, some blades are flat(relatively), but some have the sides folded up in the center at the blade holder. This will give them more strength against folding on impact. I don't remember any of those back in the day.

Stan

Mini Motors said:

I hadn't thought about HP either. Something else, some blades are flat(relatively), but some have the sides folded up in the center at the blade holder. This will give them more strength against folding on impact. I don't remember any of those back in the day.

Stan

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I wonder if that was intentional, or an unintended consequence? Now that you mention it, if you hit something REALLY hard years ago - it'd move the blade on the hub (as well as bend it). Whereas that folded design is, I assume, to keep the blade from moving on the hub.......

bones66 said:

Could be you're 100% right. I don't type real well so there are several things that don't get brought up in my post to the detail that might help understand things. I as mentioned in my first post I called the companies of these mowers and talked with the Consumer Relations. That is except for the mower that hit the post and that story is by now well documented. One of the consumer employees who answered the phone for the a company encouraged me to write letters to certain people within the company. She gave me names, addresses and titles of each. She said she hears this all to often. Also several mechanics were visited during these years in my quest for a reasonable solution and replacement. Another popular excuse used by some sales people and/or mechanics and maybe a valid one is the HP out put of the current production mowers. It's not uncommon for push mowers to be 6.5 HP now where when I was a kid mowing a 3-3.5 was more the norm. I don't know if the HP measurments are done the same now as they used to be?

As far as chalking it up to saving a buck here and there? Stan I sure hope I don't end up making people mad at this thread but a 250.00 mower just to be used to trim where I can't get into with my larger mower is in my opinion reasonable.

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Been a while since I have seen a pusher rated at 6.5 hp, they all are torque rated now instead of by hp. My oldest pusher dates to '89 and it's a 3.5 hp Tecumseh. I don't think the newer models develop almost twice the hp that older one does.

JDgreen said:

Been a while since I have seen a pusher rated at 6.5 hp, they all are torque rated now instead of by hp. My oldest pusher dates to '89 and it's a 3.5 hp Tecumseh. I don't think the newer models develop almost twice the hp that older one does.

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the new Snappers have 6.5 HP engines on them. Lots of other makes do, too........it's become as common as the 3.5's used to be.

JDgreen said:

I don't think the newer models develop almost twice the hp that older one does.

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I totally believe it. Remember when the first emissions control devices appeared on cars and everyone said it would kill fuel economy AND power? Granted, a lot of the advances were computer related, but some weren't. What we learn for one engine type, gets used in all engines.

The down side of this is now we have punk kids in 4 cylinder cars "tuned" thinking they have muscle cars.

Mini Motors said:

I

The down side of this is now we have punk kids in 4 cylinder cars "tuned" thinking they have muscle cars.

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Down side???
I'm from the Boss 351 days... still have one...
Those 'punk kids in 4 cylinder cars' Do have muscle cars... and their abilities at tunning is not just slight of hand...I know some of these guys that are getting over 1000 HP in their super tuned STREET cars...
They are doing unbelievable things at the strip ... in cars that they drive daily ...

I think any of the 4 cylinder engines could handle mulching decks, with OR without tuning.... :smile:KennyV

KennyV said:

Down side???
I'm from the Boss 351 days... still have one...
Those 'punk kids in 4 cylinder cars' Do have muscle cars... and their abilities at tunning is not just slight of hand...I know some of these guys that are getting over 1000 HP in their super tuned STREET cars...
They are doing unbelievable things at the strip ... in cars that they drive daily ...

I think any of the 4 cylinder engines could handle mulching decks, with OR without tuning.... :smile:KennyV

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Hate to get this thing going off topic but a Boss 351. Rare. I had a 351 Cleveland in a 70 Mach 1 & I agree with you 100% on the little 4 cyl. motors. They can put out some serious HP / displacement numbers. Oh well back to mowing!

Mini Motors said:

I totally believe it. Remember when the first emissions control devices appeared on cars and everyone said it would kill fuel economy AND power? Granted, a lot of the advances were computer related, but some weren't. What we learn for one engine type, gets used in all engines.

The down side of this is now we have punk kids in 4 cylinder cars "tuned" thinking they have muscle cars.

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I agree with Kenny. Those Hondas and Toyotas pumping 1000 horse could whoop some serious Detroit butt on the dragstrip.......

I hate to break this to anyone - but to modify any Sequential Electronic Fuel Injected car these days - it takes a computer, and that isn't just putting a Texas Insturments calculator under the dash. "Just" being computer realted means a lot - they are doing with chips and electronic components what you older guys did with aluminum intakes and 4 bbl "back in the day". Can't applaud the march of time, and spit on it at the same time, I'm afraid........

bones66 said:

Hate to get this thing going off topic but a Boss 351. Rare. I had a 351 Cleveland in a 70 Mach 1 & I agree with you 100% on the little 4 cyl. motors. They can put out some serious HP / displacement numbers. Oh well back to mowing!

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I owned a '70 Mach 1, 351 4V Cleveland, Hurst shifted 4 speed, 3.50 Traction-Lok, Shaker hood, Rim-Blow steering wheel, it was Grabber Blue with white vinyl seats. While not a serious muscle car it was plenty fast for a 19 year old, probably TOO fast...

Sometimes I wonder, my 40 year old Ford developed 300 hp from 351 cubic inches. well, given today's advancements in engines, I sometimes wonder how much hp such a large, free breathing V8 could develop if modern technology was applied....fuel injection, computer controls, etc.

JDgreen said:

I owned a '70 Mach 1, 351 4V Cleveland, Hurst shifted 4 speed, 3.50 Traction-Lok, Shaker hood, Rim-Blow steering wheel, it was Grabber Blue with white vinyl seats. While not a serious muscle car it was plenty fast for a 19 year old, probably TOO fast...

Sometimes I wonder, my 40 year old Ford developed 300 hp from 351 cubic inches. well, given today's advancements in engines, I sometimes wonder how much hp such a large, free breathing V8 could develop if modern technology was applied....fuel injection, computer controls, etc.

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It's been said, (I'm not sure how true)....that it wasn't until the Hemi came back in SEFI form, that modern engines could produce 1 HP per cubic inch again (from the factory)......

JDgreen said:

............Rim-Blow steering wheel, .......
.........

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OH-MY remember that one well, I wonder if you're are restoring a Mustang with one of those rascals if you could still find one of them lying around???

bones66 said:

OH-MY remember that one well, I wonder if you're are restoring a Mustang with one of those rascals if you could still find one of them lying around???

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They were also an option on the Cougar, Torino, and Montego cars back then...I am sure you can find one if you want to pay the money. Lying around, not much chance. If I recall right that was about a $34 option back in 1970. I never really got used to it, it was so much a habit to hit the center of the wheel to blow the horn.

twall said:

It's been said, (I'm not sure how true)....that it wasn't until the Hemi came back in SEFI form, that modern engines could produce 1 HP per cubic inch again (from the factory)......

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Not sure if today's engines are rated by the same scale the automakers began using back in either '72 or '73...used to be engine hp was rated gross hp, then they changed it to net hp, a more realistic figure. My '73 Nova had a 350 2-V, was rated at 145 hp net. The gross hp rating was 250 prior to that.

bones66 said:

OH-MY remember that one well, I wonder if you're are restoring a Mustang with one of those rascals if you could still find one of them lying around???

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Just checked Ebay...selling from $110 to $375......

JDgreen said:

Just checked Ebay...selling from $110 to $375......

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Well I'm glad I don't need one.......but I guess actually I wish I did. Hope that make sense! I would love to have the skill level to rebuild an old car. I don't think it would matter too much what yr, manufacture, etc. Now actually I might have to skill level for one of those Rat Rods! I live about an hour from Louisville, Ky. They have held the National Street Rod Association Convention for several years running. NSRA home Last yr. they allowed the newer autos. Wife and I go each year and just take a chair, sit and watch the endless parade of cars at the fairgrounds. Unbelievable to say the least.:biggrin:

I had a 2009 Poulan Pro with the 550 series Briggs and Stratton engine on it. I bought it brand new when I started my lawn mowing business. I used it for about 1 month, then hit the edge of a cinder block in a customers yard. Bent the shaft and sheared the key.

I have hit worse than that on my rider, and my other various push mowers, just needed to sharpen the blade after to get the nick out. I totally agree with you. If you want good quality, you have to go with a huge name brand that is trusted, or a commercial/industrial strength mower.