Buying Advice Cub Cadet w/ PTO or Fab Desk w/ EFI

[mman]

Cub Cadet w/ PTO or Fab Deck w/ EFI

I am in the market to purchase a Cub Cadet this Spring. Ideally the 2018 Enduro XT 2, LX46. There are two versions of this. One with electric PTO and Kohler Engine, the other lacks electronic PTO, but has fabricated deck and electronic fuel injection in a Cub Cadet engine 629cc.

This will be my do everything mower. Mowing an acre, uneven in some areas, will use with plow blade attachment for snow removal, and hauler bucket to move dirt, gravel, etc for future land improvement projects. Based on my yard type, I feel the fabricated deck would hold up better.

Having said that, which engine will work better? K46 transmission in both of them. Budget capped around $2,400.

If I had to decide between the two of electric pto vs efi, how would you decide?

Thanks everyone for your input!

-MM

 

[BlazNT]

Do not get the EFI engine. Too many issues and no one knows how to work on them.

 

[Boobala]

Do not get the EFI engine. Too many issues and no one knows how to work on them.

I share the opinion of BlazNT, EFI is still not well known.

 

[motoman]

I would buy the fuel injection engine because I think it is the Walbro "throttle body" fuel injection. In the Cub Cadet forum I had asked for feedback a while back and believe a new owner has responded favorably. Since I am not a pro and no access to consumer problems I cannot speak first hand. But that particular fuel injection approach dates to the 1980's in cars. The promise is better throttle response , not important in lawn tractors, but also easier starting and better economy.

Port fuel injection replaced the throttle body type. I read here that some upscale air cooled tractor engines have the port type. With that comes the ability to diagnose performance issues via fault codes retrieved without much hassle. What an owner does to clear the faults is not always so easy, but should be easier than the struggles with the carburetted engines.

What are the issues mentioned above with the FJ engines?? I do not know if owners can extract fault codes from the Walbro units, but I could not get any information on the engine earlier. There will be a few sensors on the Walbro to make it work, but the pricing suggests this approach is meant to be user friendly. I am guessing Walbro was very careful before offering this technology. Comments please.

 

[BlazNT]

The problem is no one knows how to work on them. You can not hook a computer to them to diagnose them. Sensors are basic and can not give enough info to figure out the problem. And once again no one knows how to work on them.
OTOH when the work they are fantastic. Easy starting all the time. Purr like a tiger and just work.
To me they are too much money for the possible problems. They will get better but that day is not here yet.

 

[Boobala]

I would buy the fuel injection engine because I think it is the Walbro "throttle body" fuel injection. In the Cub Cadet forum I had asked for feedback a while back and believe a new owner has responded favorably. Since I am not a pro and no access to consumer problems I cannot speak first hand. But that particular fuel injection approach dates to the 1980's in cars. The promise is better throttle response , not important in lawn tractors, but also easier starting and better economy.

Port fuel injection replaced the throttle body type. I read here that some upscale air cooled tractor engines have the port type. With that comes the ability to diagnose performance issues via fault codes retrieved without much hassle. What an owner does to clear the faults is not always so easy, but should be easier than the struggles with the carburetted engines.

What are the issues mentioned above with the FJ engines?? I do not know if owners can extract fault codes from the Walbro units, but I could not get any information on the engine earlier. There will be a few sensors on the Walbro to make it work, but the pricing suggests this approach is meant to be user friendly. I am guessing Walbro was very careful before offering this technology. Comments please.

THIS article may shed some light on the subject ...

http://www.walbro.com/walbro-eem-around-ideal-fuel-injection-solution/

http://www.walbro.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Walbro_EEM_Injection_Mower_PS_EN.pdf

 

[motoman]

Hmmm, Sooner or later Cub Cadet's chosen "repair facility" must repair, no? Surely they did not offer the 3 models at big box prices without provision to fix 'em??? Or did they? If I know Boobala he will feret out any existing information on this. In a current thread on BATTERY CHARGERS someone noted some models give out fault codes so this is not rocket science. There is a Portland OR dealer. Maybe I should call him?


On "ancient" port fuel injection car engines (1985) grounding a pin on an easily accessed connector would start "blink code" out puts which are perfectly adequate for the patient troubleshooter. Those blink codes were the "check engine light" going on and off, and you counting the blinks, no computer needed. Unlike the later FJ cars the fault code list was small. Gotta be a way.

Edit @ 1:25PM Called Walbro engineer Michigan. Fairly tight lipped , but he said in 2 successive years at CC convention very few reports of failures. He said the CC factory takes the unit built with a microprocessor(ecu) and develops the harnessing etc. Walbro sells this to Kawasaki for undisclosed use.

Then called major local dealer who said there is no diy he knows of, and that he has only had one failure due to bad gas plugging the fuel pump. He hinted a software package is available to dealers for $500. If this were a car fanatic forum someone would steal that program somehow. ha ha The system also uses an oxy sensor, apparently. That is all I could squeeze out.

 

[bertsmobile1]

Just like what happened when CDI ignitions were introduced to motorcycles.
The std diagnosis method was "replace with a known good unit" and that is just what they did till they found the faulty component.
This system is still being used by a lot of motorcycle workshops.
And just like cars the days of home owner repairs will go.
It is called technology & regulations.

Several mowers already run EEM via a chip in the hour meter , EEM on a mower is fairly easy and most display an error message on the hour meter screen.
The technology behind that has been used in lathes & mills for decades to maintain constant speeds.
Kohler has published service details of their previous EFI system so it will not be long before all of that trickles down to all workshops.
Basically it is just "fear of the new" .
You can buy car diagnostic tools for thousands , or hook up a led or analog meter to the computer outlet and count the pulses.
Dealer networks will eventually all buy the fancy dancy diagnostic gear, but not till there is sufficient demand to justify the cost.

Kawasaki do service schools and even down here the EFI updates are run 4 times a year.

It is not like this is brand new cutting edge technology.
It is very old technology being applied to a new use.

 

[Boobala]

SOME CUB CADET READING

figured I'd try to see how much info. on these Cub's with EFI is out there, finding a bit here N there so I'll post what I've found thus far, it does seem there are several outfits fooling with EFI models and it appears ( at least to me, from what I've read) they ARE leery of the issues this new system will bring forth, anyway here's some reading material,

http://www.cubcadet.com/equipment/c...ageView=promos/electronic_fuel_injection.html

http://todaysmower.com/2015-cub-cadet-xt1-xt2-lawn-garden-tractor-review/

http://www.cubcadet.com/equipment/c...ubcadet_General/ProductRecallLandingPage.html

https://support.cubcadet.com/s/article/437-1

https://support.cubcadet.com/s/article/1722-1

I read somewhere along the line "TROY-BILT" was introducing EFI in 2016 on a certain model, but I have to explore that info.

 

[motoman]

Couple thoughts...Forgot to mention the contact hinted that MTD may be looking hard at the throttle body. Why? Maybe they want an easier way back in California's good graces with clean emissions with the EFJ's oxy sensor and so called "closed loop" operation (the sensors keep the fuel mix within an acceptable "clean" range of oxygen and pollutants).

Instead of sheep jumping to put me to sleep I keep digging into past experience, limited as it is. I owned a Ford in the 70s with throttle body FJ. I recall it was a 4 cyl truck engine revived in a compact. But it had all the sensors. The repair manual had a pre OBD II connector under the dash which allowed the Ford garage to hook up and check the sensors by their centralized system. But....also extensive alternate information on the individual sensors available in the manual. By then most home hobbyists had been scared off from auto diagnosis. The rabid few , after retrieving the fault code from the blinking CEL output (count the blinks), could at least narrow the search to a sensor such as throttle position sensor (TPS), temp sensor, and exhaust gas recirculate EGR, for instance

. Then one could remove them from the engine and test them as components with a DVM (handheld volt -ohm-resistance) for "expected" values....does the TPS put out the proper voltage when you crank the little lever,? etc. I was able to fix several problems this way. My time...hours. A Ford garage probably minutes because they could actuate the individual sensors from their handheld. The current OBDII is easy to use. So what, learn baby, learn.

These Cub Cadets should have these screw- in sensors. Someone buy one and we can take it apart.:thumbsup:

Edit: To chew on. Came across an interesting Brit site where the person has a EFJ bike and his girlfriend a carburetted one, both Hondas.
The message is that he expected the carburetor to be the easier of the two to work on, but concluded the EFJ was just as easy, if not more so. Go figure. We have a better mousetrap here, IMO. A rider with locker and this EFJ...sign me up.