Cub Cadet 2135 - Battery light on console comes on when mower deck engaged

[greynold99]

Hi,
Hoping someone will know what's going on when I engage the mower deck pull-out control, the Console battery charge warning light comes on.
Then when I disengage the mower the light goes off... It didn't seem to affect the running or the subsequent starting of the tractor but I thought this warning light indicated %Low charging condition.

The battery was bought this past Fall and when I checked the electrolyte level, the battery cells were down about a 1/2 inch but the internal charging plates are still fully submerged. I'll fill the cells with distilled water before taking the mower out again but I don't think this is causing the problem.
Thanks,
greynold99

 

[greynold99]

Quick Internet Search on the Battery light coming on when PTO Engaged indicates two possible scenarios, aside from a bad battery or electrical connection
1. There is a electrical harness diode mounted somwhere that may need replaced - though it doesn't identify where the diode is located and how to test it;
2. Something about the electrical PTO drawing too much current and causing the battery to discharge -- I'm not sure about this one - Can someone explain How you'd go about determing this to be issue aside from %Battery Discharge/Low Charge light coming on...?
Thanks,
greynold99

 

[mechanic mark]

772-4232 shop manual, see troubleshooting section. Click on full manual & see section 4.1.

 

[bertsmobile1]

Never had a diode problem but usually the warning light comes down to dirty connections , a failing PTO Clutch , an overheating rectifier due to build up of debris ,or a failing alternator.

So start with the easy one first , a spanner & a wire brush .
If the lamp stays off then get a ca of liquid electrical tape and paint over all of the connectors that you found to be dirty / corroded.
When you removed the cowl clean the connectors on the rectifier then gently wire brush / steel wool the alloy cover on the rectifier and clean out all of the cooling fins & passages.
You can do a voltage test on the output of the generator you should be getting 14 + volts DC with the enine running and around 30 V AC direct from the alternator however this is VOLTS , not AMPS so the generator output could still be below spec.
I have had one case where the magnets on the inside of the flywheel were caked with magnetic dust particles thus substantially reducing the power output.
And that took a long while to find so the "low power output" checking regeime has changed & I invested in a clamp on ammeter , a bit expensive but a lot quicker than pulling off the flywheel every time but flywheel removal & cleaning now becomes a part of the 200 Hr service.

 

[greynold99]

Mechanic Mark & Bertsmobile1,

Ok! got your message and will start with the simple stuff first - Check and clean all electrical connections from the battery to the chassis ground, including checking the various safety-switches; although the issue would appear to discount them at all since the tractor Starts and Runs fine.

I put in a new regulator last year and I'm guessing based on your reply that what I was calling a 'diode' and is part of the rectifier and that's probably built right on the regulator since it's putting out straight 12 Volts DC from the flywheel. As Bertsmobile1 said this area required a lot of cleaning from over 17 years of use but I doubt it would've gotten very dirty with only a few months of mowing after being replaced

Mechanic Mark, on checking the 2135 Manual - Troubleshooting, the symptom that matches mine refers to a 'Voltage Sensor' and grounding it directly to determine if that is the cause of the problem -- Do you have any idea where the Voltage Sensor would be located? I did a Internet Search and there was a Cub Cadet 2160 Voltage Sensor & a separate Voltage Relay that came up for sale on eBay and it looked like the Voltage Sensor was designed to be mounted to the tractor frame or body somewhere with a sheetmetal screw and it appeared to have a connection for a 2-wire connector.

Any help with locating where the Voltage Sensor appreciated,
greynold99

 

[packardv8]

The professionals have given you the path to find the problem. What it won't do is make the OEM switches and connectors work and last.

The following is only my opinion and experience. It is not intended as advice or suggestions to anyone else.

I've had my 2135 about as long as you've had yours and ultimately, the only way to keep it operational was all new industrial quality switches and connectors, plus eliminating much of the lawyer circuitry.

Yes, the safety circuitry there is to idiot-proof operation, but they can also result in an unreliable or non-operational machine. An example is the switch which disconnects the PTO when reverse is used. A lawn service guy who does the house next door saw my new-used 2135 and said, "Disconnect that feature and your PTO will last many times longer. It's the first thing we do on a new machine."

The PTO switch on the 2135 was particularly problematic. The original switch became erratic and for a while cleaning helped, but finally it just wore out, as did the expensive replacement. Finally, I bought an industrial quality push-pull and wired it directly to the PTO. Problem solved.

Over the years, I've replaced every switch and connector on the machine. Even the simple two-wire push-on connector at the PTO became erratic and had to be replaced.

A friend out of town bought a 2000-series on my recommendation and couldn't do any maintenance himself. After several expensive trips back to the dealer, all to repair electrical glitches, he traded it in for peanuts on a new mower. He was mad at me for recommending it, so he didn't tell me or I'd have bought for more than the dealer gave him.

Your opinions and results may vary.

jack vines

 

[motoman]

Jack's story about better quality switches reminds me of some English Fords I once owned. The dash finally ended up with US made electric toggle switches. An also some Chinese switches need the cure.

 

[greynold99]

Packardv8,
Glad you saw my post and replied, no one's opinion I respect more when it comes to Cub 2135's. I think you're onto something with the PTO switch being at least connected to my problem. Here's why...
Saturday morning, I disconnected and cleaned the main electrical connections at following places: the battery, the battery chassis-ground to engine, the 2-wire PTO connector and some odd-looking connector I found on the air-cleaner/carb side of the engine on the lower engine body.
Basically, I would disconnect the switch, rub any corrosion off with 220 sandpaper where possible or a very small flat file, apply some grease and reconnect

Due to another Sat. time committment, I did not pull/clean the switch/ignition connections under the console (ignition switch or PTO switch). After trickle charging for an hour or so, I could only take it out for about 20 minutes mowing to see if that fixed - and when I pulled the PTO switch to engage, the BATT Charge Warning light did NOT come ON. I was able to mow a 20 yd X 40 yd area and thought I had it fixed but yesterday when I started mowing my hillside bank - the BATT light came back on.
At that point, I knew it would drain the battery so in order to keep mowing I would disengage the PTO when climbing the hillside to let the battery charge a little and then engage mower when coming downhill. This seemed to work Ok! and I noticed on the downhill-mow the BATT Charge Warning would some times NOT come ON or would come on dimly or would flicker On & Off. However, every time I started to climb the hillside or put a load on with the mower engaged, the BATT light would come full ON.
Eventually even this trick quit working and it got to a point later on level ground when I would pull the PTO Switch and Nothing, the mower wouldn't engage and BATT light would come ON.

If you could help guide me through the diagnosis and work, where do I need to start? What would you do first?
Replacing the PTO Switch? What type of 'industrial quality Push/Pull switch' did you use and where did you get it and what re-wiring was necessary to make it work? Would that be the best plact to start?
I'm inclined to bypass/disconnect the Backup safety switch and the Seat-Interlock safety switch, but I'm really going to need your guidance/help there.
Like your friend, I can replace the same part easy enough but wiring something new in, is not something I've done a lot of.

Really appreciate your taking the time to help... I thing the 2135 is a good mower overall, but it's funny the list of things I've had to deal with since it started approaching 500 hours of service.
Thanks again,
greynold99

 

[greynold99]

On a another post from this forum, I had found reference to Cub 2135 Part #925-1648 Voltage Relay and Part #929-3080 Voltage Sensor being involved in this problem with the BATT Charging Warning light coming ON.
I found the Voltage Relay mounted behind area underneath the Console where the ignition switch and PTO switch are mounted - but, I have not been able to locate the Voltage Sensor...

Does anyone know that is found? I'm thinking that too may be located under the Console, maybe near the PTO Switch but didn't have time last night to look.
Thanks,
greynold99

 

[motoman]

For what it's worth on my Craftsman DYT 4000 I started having a PTO engagement problem about a month back which has continued. but since I always trickle charge I guess it has allowed me to limp along with the PTO sometimes balking. Anyway the ammeter suddenly failed to indicate strong charge during initial startup like it has for 10 years so I knew something was up. The needle indicated slight discharge to slight charge and pro's here have told us latch-up demands 5 to11 amps (if memory serves). Yesterday I started cleaning wires at the volt reg and reached the 2 black wires from the alt-stator (I think). When I reached the second it was severed , presumably from vibration. This tells me the conductors broke first inside and finally the insulation jacket followed. I will look further and report. If this is my problem it is a gift since the reg shows on Jack's Small engine @ $54. For information...and a clue perhaps...