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Hi,
Hoping someone will know what's going on when I engage the mower deck pull-out control, the Console battery charge warning light comes on.
Then when I disengage the mower the light goes off... It didn't seem to affect the running or the subsequent starting of the tractor but I thought this warning light indicated %Low charging condition.

The battery was bought this past Fall and when I checked the electrolyte level, the battery cells were down about a 1/2 inch but the internal charging plates are still fully submerged. I'll fill the cells with distilled water before taking the mower out again but I don't think this is causing the problem.
Thanks,
greynold99

Quick Internet Search on the Battery light coming on when PTO Engaged indicates two possible scenarios, aside from a bad battery or electrical connection
1. There is a electrical harness diode mounted somwhere that may need replaced - though it doesn't identify where the diode is located and how to test it;
2. Something about the electrical PTO drawing too much current and causing the battery to discharge -- I'm not sure about this one - Can someone explain How you'd go about determing this to be issue aside from %Battery Discharge/Low Charge light coming on...?
Thanks,
greynold99

772-4232 shop manual, see troubleshooting section. Click on full manual & see section 4.1.

Never had a diode problem but usually the warning light comes down to dirty connections , a failing PTO Clutch , an overheating rectifier due to build up of debris ,or a failing alternator.

So start with the easy one first , a spanner & a wire brush .
If the lamp stays off then get a ca of liquid electrical tape and paint over all of the connectors that you found to be dirty / corroded.
When you removed the cowl clean the connectors on the rectifier then gently wire brush / steel wool the alloy cover on the rectifier and clean out all of the cooling fins & passages.
You can do a voltage test on the output of the generator you should be getting 14 + volts DC with the enine running and around 30 V AC direct from the alternator however this is VOLTS , not AMPS so the generator output could still be below spec.
I have had one case where the magnets on the inside of the flywheel were caked with magnetic dust particles thus substantially reducing the power output.
And that took a long while to find so the "low power output" checking regeime has changed & I invested in a clamp on ammeter , a bit expensive but a lot quicker than pulling off the flywheel every time but flywheel removal & cleaning now becomes a part of the 200 Hr service.

Mechanic Mark & Bertsmobile1,

Ok! got your message and will start with the simple stuff first - Check and clean all electrical connections from the battery to the chassis ground, including checking the various safety-switches; although the issue would appear to discount them at all since the tractor Starts and Runs fine.

I put in a new regulator last year and I'm guessing based on your reply that what I was calling a 'diode' and is part of the rectifier and that's probably built right on the regulator since it's putting out straight 12 Volts DC from the flywheel. As Bertsmobile1 said this area required a lot of cleaning from over 17 years of use but I doubt it would've gotten very dirty with only a few months of mowing after being replaced

Mechanic Mark, on checking the 2135 Manual - Troubleshooting, the symptom that matches mine refers to a 'Voltage Sensor' and grounding it directly to determine if that is the cause of the problem -- Do you have any idea where the Voltage Sensor would be located? I did a Internet Search and there was a Cub Cadet 2160 Voltage Sensor & a separate Voltage Relay that came up for sale on eBay and it looked like the Voltage Sensor was designed to be mounted to the tractor frame or body somewhere with a sheetmetal screw and it appeared to have a connection for a 2-wire connector.

Any help with locating where the Voltage Sensor appreciated,
greynold99

The professionals have given you the path to find the problem. What it won't do is make the OEM switches and connectors work and last.

The following is only my opinion and experience. It is not intended as advice or suggestions to anyone else.

I've had my 2135 about as long as you've had yours and ultimately, the only way to keep it operational was all new industrial quality switches and connectors, plus eliminating much of the lawyer circuitry.

Yes, the safety circuitry there is to idiot-proof operation, but they can also result in an unreliable or non-operational machine. An example is the switch which disconnects the PTO when reverse is used. A lawn service guy who does the house next door saw my new-used 2135 and said, "Disconnect that feature and your PTO will last many times longer. It's the first thing we do on a new machine."

The PTO switch on the 2135 was particularly problematic. The original switch became erratic and for a while cleaning helped, but finally it just wore out, as did the expensive replacement. Finally, I bought an industrial quality push-pull and wired it directly to the PTO. Problem solved.

Over the years, I've replaced every switch and connector on the machine. Even the simple two-wire push-on connector at the PTO became erratic and had to be replaced.

A friend out of town bought a 2000-series on my recommendation and couldn't do any maintenance himself. After several expensive trips back to the dealer, all to repair electrical glitches, he traded it in for peanuts on a new mower. He was mad at me for recommending it, so he didn't tell me or I'd have bought for more than the dealer gave him.

Your opinions and results may vary.

jack vines

Jack's story about better quality switches reminds me of some English Fords I once owned. The dash finally ended up with US made electric toggle switches. An also some Chinese switches need the cure.

Packardv8,
Glad you saw my post and replied, no one's opinion I respect more when it comes to Cub 2135's. I think you're onto something with the PTO switch being at least connected to my problem. Here's why...
Saturday morning, I disconnected and cleaned the main electrical connections at following places: the battery, the battery chassis-ground to engine, the 2-wire PTO connector and some odd-looking connector I found on the air-cleaner/carb side of the engine on the lower engine body.
Basically, I would disconnect the switch, rub any corrosion off with 220 sandpaper where possible or a very small flat file, apply some grease and reconnect

Due to another Sat. time committment, I did not pull/clean the switch/ignition connections under the console (ignition switch or PTO switch). After trickle charging for an hour or so, I could only take it out for about 20 minutes mowing to see if that fixed - and when I pulled the PTO switch to engage, the BATT Charge Warning light did NOT come ON. I was able to mow a 20 yd X 40 yd area and thought I had it fixed but yesterday when I started mowing my hillside bank - the BATT light came back on.
At that point, I knew it would drain the battery so in order to keep mowing I would disengage the PTO when climbing the hillside to let the battery charge a little and then engage mower when coming downhill. This seemed to work Ok! and I noticed on the downhill-mow the BATT Charge Warning would some times NOT come ON or would come on dimly or would flicker On & Off. However, every time I started to climb the hillside or put a load on with the mower engaged, the BATT light would come full ON.
Eventually even this trick quit working and it got to a point later on level ground when I would pull the PTO Switch and Nothing, the mower wouldn't engage and BATT light would come ON.

If you could help guide me through the diagnosis and work, where do I need to start? What would you do first?
Replacing the PTO Switch? What type of 'industrial quality Push/Pull switch' did you use and where did you get it and what re-wiring was necessary to make it work? Would that be the best plact to start?
I'm inclined to bypass/disconnect the Backup safety switch and the Seat-Interlock safety switch, but I'm really going to need your guidance/help there.
Like your friend, I can replace the same part easy enough but wiring something new in, is not something I've done a lot of.

Really appreciate your taking the time to help... I thing the 2135 is a good mower overall, but it's funny the list of things I've had to deal with since it started approaching 500 hours of service.
Thanks again,
greynold99

On a another post from this forum, I had found reference to Cub 2135 Part #925-1648 Voltage Relay and Part #929-3080 Voltage Sensor being involved in this problem with the BATT Charging Warning light coming ON.
I found the Voltage Relay mounted behind area underneath the Console where the ignition switch and PTO switch are mounted - but, I have not been able to locate the Voltage Sensor...

Does anyone know that is found? I'm thinking that too may be located under the Console, maybe near the PTO Switch but didn't have time last night to look.
Thanks,
greynold99

For what it's worth on my Craftsman DYT 4000 I started having a PTO engagement problem about a month back which has continued. but since I always trickle charge I guess it has allowed me to limp along with the PTO sometimes balking. Anyway the ammeter suddenly failed to indicate strong charge during initial startup like it has for 10 years so I knew something was up. The needle indicated slight discharge to slight charge and pro's here have told us latch-up demands 5 to11 amps (if memory serves). Yesterday I started cleaning wires at the volt reg and reached the 2 black wires from the alt-stator (I think). When I reached the second it was severed , presumably from vibration. This tells me the conductors broke first inside and finally the insulation jacket followed. I will look further and report. If this is my problem it is a gift since the reg shows on Jack's Small engine @ $54. For information...and a clue perhaps...

UPDATE Cub Cadet 2135 - Battery light on console comes on when mower deck engaged

After reading yesterday's posts to my question and re-reading my own remarks, I couldn't get over the fact that the BATT Charge light would go OFF when running on Level ground with PTO engaged and occasionally flicker ON/OFF, going to Full ON when a load was placed on the engine climbing a hill - Still sounded like a classic 'loose electrical connection' to me...
Last night before putting on the trickle charger, I reseated the wire connector going to the PTO Switch on the Console underside and I think I've found both the Voltage Sensor and Voltage Relay components I had asked about as well - they're both right there.
The Voltage Sensor is taped to the wiring harness close to the PTO Switch and the Voltage Relay is screwed to the Cub's frame with another electrical connector off the wiring harness to it.

Anyway, after push mowing for an hour, I jumped on to see what the Cub would do - and Voila - No BATT Charge light. I mowed for another hour and about that time the Cub was getting pretty hot but still no BATT Charge light.
However, there's still a problem - I was about to take the Cub in for the night and thought I would mow one more area - but when I engaged the PTO, NOTHING, except I could make out an 'electrical buzzing' - Can't tell you where it was coming from because of the engine noise. But the 2 or 3 times I tried to engage the PTO I would hear it. When I got it near the garage where I store the tractor, I tried one more thing - I lowered the throttle down to less than half-way - Engaged the PTO Switch - heard a little of the 'electrical buzzing' and then the mower deck engaged...

Any ideas on What's going on with the PTO Switch or the PTO?
Thanks,
greynold99

Question for Mechanic Mark...

Mechanic Mark,
I want to mention how much I've appreciated your helpful links to the Cub 2135 troubleshooting guides.
Though, the last link did not contain the 'Appendices' referenced in the Troubleshooting the PTO section 5.8; I think it was Appendix D and it did not appear to be included with the document and the document did not contain a weblink to the Appendices.
Could I impose on you one more time to post that link for me?

I also wanted to ask your opinion about some of the options we've been discussing for 'bypassing' the various Safety Switches on the Cub 2135.
Your post replies on Cubs seems to indicate that you are very knowledgeable, possibly professional in your experiences with Cubs and I just wanted to ask your opinion about: Replacing the PTO Switch with an after-marked Push/Pull Switch, and bypassing the Seat, Reverse and Brake Safety switches.
I'm not wanting to get any arguments started but just wondered what your thoughts are in regards to this as I've come across some posts indicating some problems when these bypass wiring jobs are poorly done.
Thanks,
greynold99

Update to the last update to Packardv8

To Packardv8, I did some quick searches on the forum and discovered that you actually had dealt with almost everything we're talking about last Summer. From those I had a couple of questions...

1. In regards to the wiring at the PTO electrical connection itself, since the BLUE wire always has +12v to it - Could you have just wired an appropriately amp-rated Toggle switch to the Ground-side wire and used that control the PTO?
2. When you wired in the Heavy Duty Push/Pull switch - How did you bypass the Reverse safety relay wiring? Were you able to isolate the HD Push/Pull Switch to one wire (+12vdc) off the connector that connects to the OEM PTO Switch or was some additional jumper wiring required to bypass the (Reverse) Voltage Relay?
Thanks,
greynold99

Update to Mechanic Mark and last update

Mechanic Mark,
I found I actually had the Appendix I requested the link for - I must've found it last Wednesday and downloaded it... probably off of one of your forum posts here.
Sorry just didn't remember but still would like to hear your opinions on the questions about the Cub's safety wiring and bypassing those.
Thanks,
greynold99

The severed wire problem: Two black wires from the alternator connect thru a 2 pin connector to the 2 yellow ones to the voltage regulator. One black wire was hanging loose. The nylon, 2 piece connector was badly discolored and very brittle. Eventually I just crushed it like a walnut to get at the pins which were all 4 badly corroded and discolored from 10 years of vibe/heat. After fussing I just cut back to slightly better stranded wire on all four and hard soldered. Despite cleaning, the solder required fluxing before the solder joints would take (fluxing within the solder itself). The ammeter now swings smoothly into charge of over 10 amps on start up. It had been only charging about 5 amps for a very long time and was jerky. My take is corroded and broken strands/pins caused an unwanted resistance and was dropping voltage there instead of passing current to the battery. Wish your problem was as simple. Classic example of somewhat loose wire bundle not well tied to engine and free to whip about. (No No)

Motoman,
Glad to hear you got your electrical problem fixed. If you re-read one of my earlier updates, my original problem with the BATT Charge Warning light coming ON was simple to fix - just reseated the plastic electrical PTO Switch connection from Console underside where you have the PTO Pull Out/Push In switch and ignition key cylinder... On my Cub there's multiple wires in this electrical connector, likely linked to the so called 'Safety Shutdown of the PTO' if you try to go in Reverse while mowing deck engaged or getting off the seat while the engine is running (This kills the engine as well unless the Brake is set in Park)... So the wiring itself is kind of complicated - when you consider that all you wanted was a lawnmowing tractor...
Packardv8 has indicated the safety and wiring components were not built with sufficiently 'heavy duty' or Industrial Grade components to last and I suppose that's just part of 'Planned Obsolescence'... Unfortunately, I can't wrap my head around the fact - Why would you buy another of the same lawn tractor brand if it doesn't hold up more than 5 or 10 years depending on whether you're using this lawn tractor daily or weekly.

There does appear to be another issue developing, probbably involving one of these Safety wiring components because after mowing for an hour or so, the PTO Switch will tend to at first, engage the actual PTO Drive 'more slowly' when Pulling-Out to engage and eventually after several Pull-Out/Push-In cycles will NOT engage the PTO Drive at all - And all you hear is slight 'electrical buzzing' from somewhere - likely the Voltage Relay also under the Console, which I've come to understand tends to wear-out due to the Amperage required to power the PTO Drive itself when engaging the PTO Switch.

I'm still waiting for the Cub Experts here to pass along how to go about removing some or all of the PTO Safety Interlocks built in - maybe starting with the Seat Safety switch first, since that from my perspective would be the simplest to bypass. From what I've read it sounds like it's normally CLOSED circuit when no one is sitting on the Cub seat (Engine/PTO won't Start or continue to RUN in this situation) and that someone sitting on the tractor seat causes the Seat Switch to be OPEN circuit for normal Engine/PTO running operation.

Keep a watch on this post, I'm sure the updates will get interesting.
greynold99

Motoman,
Glad to hear you got your electrical problem fixed. If you re-read one of my earlier updates, my original problem with the BATT Charge Warning light coming ON was simple to fix - just reseated the plastic electrical PTO Switch connection from Console underside where you have the PTO Pull Out/Push In switch and ignition key cylinder... On my Cub there's multiple wires in this electrical connector, likely linked to the so called 'Safety Shutdown of the PTO' if you try to go in Reverse while mowing deck engaged or getting off the seat while the engine is running (This kills the engine as well unless the Brake is set in Park)... So the wiring itself is kind of complicated - when you consider that all you wanted was a lawnmowing tractor...
Packardv8 has indicated the safety and wiring components were not built with sufficiently 'heavy duty' or Industrial Grade components to last and I suppose that's just part of 'Planned Obsolescence'... Unfortunately, I can't wrap my head around the fact - Why would you buy another of the same lawn tractor brand if it doesn't hold up more than 5 or 10 years depending on whether you're using this lawn tractor daily or weekly.

There does appear to be another issue developing, probbably involving one of these Safety wiring components because after mowing for an hour or so, the PTO Switch will tend to at first, engage the actual PTO Drive 'more slowly' when Pulling-Out to engage and eventually after several Pull-Out/Push-In cycles will NOT engage the PTO Drive at all - And all you hear is slight 'electrical buzzing' from somewhere - likely the Voltage Relay also under the Console, which I've come to understand tends to wear-out due to the Amperage required to power the PTO Drive itself when engaging the PTO Switch.

I'm still waiting for the Cub Experts here to pass along how to go about removing some or all of the PTO Safety Interlocks built in - maybe starting with the Seat Safety switch first, since that from my perspective would be the simplest to bypass. From what I've read it sounds like it's normally CLOSED circuit when no one is sitting on the Cub seat (Engine/PTO won't Start or continue to RUN in this situation) and that someone sitting on the tractor seat causes the Seat Switch to be OPEN circuit for normal Engine/PTO running operation.

Keep a watch on this post, I'm sure the updates will get interesting.
greynold99

Re: Update to Mechanic Mark and last update

greynold99 said:

Mechanic Mark,
I found I actually had the Appendix I requested the link for - I must've found it last Wednesday and downloaded it... probably off of one of your forum posts here.
Sorry just didn't remember but still would like to hear your opinions on the questions about the Cub's safety wiring and bypassing those.
Thanks,
greynold99

Click to expand...

Regarding bypassing of Safety Switches, I'm totally against it. I had an accident two years ago while mowing in reverse & in a hurry before storm hit, went over very small embankment with tractor on top of me, everything shut down on mower, I was alive and well on gravel drive, asked for help from ABOVE, was able to belly crawl out from under tractor, tractor was on its right side, I prayed for help again & was able to roll tractor to upright position by using steering wheel to lift with, I did have help from ABOVE! Think about it, when you start bypassing safety switches, you are not just inviting an accident to happen, you are possibly interfering with your machines electrical system components & performance of engine. Would you bypass or disable safety switches on your personal vehicle, motorcycle, boat, atv, personal airplane?

Motoman,
Glad to hear you got your electrical problem fixed. If you re-read one of my earlier updates, my original problem with the BATT Charge Warning light coming ON was simple to fix - just reseated the plastic electrical PTO Switch connection from Console underside where you have the PTO Pull Out/Push In switch and ignition key cylinder... On my Cub there's multiple wires in this electrical connector, likely linked to the so called 'Safety Shutdown of the PTO' if you try to go in Reverse while mowing deck engaged or getting off the seat while the engine is running (This kills the engine as well unless the Brake is set in Park)... So the wiring itself is kind of complicated - when you consider that all you wanted was a lawnmowing tractor...
Packardv8 has indicated the safety and wiring components were not built with sufficiently 'heavy duty' or Industrial Grade components to last and I suppose that's just part of 'Planned Obsolescence'... Unfortunately, I can't wrap my head around the fact - Why would you buy another of the same lawn tractor brand if it doesn't hold up more than 5 or 10 years depending on whether you're using this lawn tractor daily or weekly.

There does appear to be another issue developing, probbably involving one of these Safety wiring components because after mowing for an hour or so, the PTO Switch will tend to at first, engage the actual PTO Drive 'more slowly' when Pulling-Out to engage and eventually after several Pull-Out/Push-In cycles will NOT engage the PTO Drive at all - And all you hear is slight 'electrical buzzing' from somewhere - likely the Voltage Relay also under the Console, which I've come to understand tends to wear-out due to the Amperage required to power the PTO Drive itself when engaging the PTO Switch.

I'm still waiting for the Cub Experts here to pass along how to go about removing some or all of the PTO Safety Interlocks built in - maybe starting with the Seat Safety switch first, since that from my perspective would be the simplest to bypass. From what I've read it sounds like it's normally CLOSED circuit when no one is sitting on the Cub seat (Engine/PTO won't Start or continue to RUN in this situation) and that someone sitting on the tractor seat causes the Seat Switch to be OPEN circuit for normal Engine/PTO running operation.

Keep a watch on this post, I'm sure the updates will get interesting.
greynold99

greynold. Thanks. I guess I kind of crashed your thread, but may be helpful to some readers. Glad you are patient. My only comment is that I cannot relate to a buzzing from the voltage reg as it is most likely solid state all the way-no moving parts. I have not cut into one but they are most likely a "solid potted" circuit. You probably know that. Good luck and will keep watching hoping you solve the problem. I have mixed feelings about my big box Craftsman. I know building to a price point is very difficult. After major early problem with Intek engine pretting satisfied after 10 years of medium (home) use. I have seen the degradation like the connector I described on English cars, but never on US/Japanese stuff. (Although I have seen Audi connectors fail sourced outside Deutschland). Before finding the dangling wire I priced the Intek volt reg @$54 from Briggs. $18 on line where they will not say source. Leery of the $18 , both quality of labor and cheap components. Of course the $18 looks identical to the Briggs, like a Gucci handbag knockoff,:laughing:

Buzzing is a connection opening and closing rapidly.
Or to put it another way it is trying to make a connection but can not.

I still think you have a charging problem and the engine is not charging at the full rate .
So when the battery does not have enough power, the PTO will not engage.
After driving for a few miutes there was just enough power put back into the battery to reengage
So when you are just driving you get a low ( trickle type ) charge back to the battery but when you put a heavy electric load it is discharging the battery.

Couple of updates on my on-going BATT dash charging light coming on...

1. I have to charge the battery before I can mow but...
2. Once I get the tractor started, both the PTO and mower run for extended periods of time, up to 2 hours even though...
3. The BATT Charge Warning Light is now lit continuously, even when I disengage the PTO! This just started to happen last couple of weeks but I was amazed that I could mow for more than an hour without ever having to disengage the PTO so the battery will charge up a little.

I'm now kind of suspecting the Voltage Regulator/Rectifier, which is mounted on my Cub on the Lower-Left corner of the engine housing with a 3 or 4 wire connector to it. But I still not able to explain why I'm not having a problem with the battery discharging and causing the engine to die after mowing for the hour or two it takes me to mow my yard.
I'm going to check the connections to the Regulator tonight just to make sure I haven't missed it being just a bad connection. Although I seem to recall the connector to this is one of those preformed-single unit pieces with all the wiring connections there - so no ability to crimp or tighten the connection; although might be able to slightly adjust the spade connectors coming off the Regulator itself.

Let me know if you've seen this before or have some other ideas.
Thanks,
greynold99

Problem was the Voltage Regulator/Rectifier - Found one on Amazon from Stens for about 1/3 of OEM price since these are apparently used by MTD for other lawn tractors as well as Cub Cadets.

One thing to note - Apparently there was a design change in this component and my 1996 Regulator/Rectifier (KH-41-403-09-S) has the 3-spade electrical connectors extending beyond the Regulator/Rectifier case from the bottom edge but the newer version (KH-41-403-10-S) has those connectors on the back of the case but they do not extend far enough to connect to the plastic electrical 3-wire connector on my tractor.

Had my fingers crossed since this was last thing I knew to do - pulled out the PTO Switch and No BATT Charge Warning light.
Mowed for over 2 hours - and finally the she died from the heat (Plus 87 degrees and humid) induced vapor lock that's been discussed so ofter with these 2000 Series Tractors...
I'll have to see what Packardv8 has done with his Fuel Tank removal project and if that finally fixed his vapor locking issue.
BTW, I came back an hour later - started the Cub right up and finished mowing...

greynold99