Cranking problem with Tiger Cub

[macelandscaping]

Posted this to another thread just now. I am having almost the same problem as yours. What do you think??


"I have a scag wildcat 52" (prior 2011 model, I will get a VIN asap) with a similar issue. Same thing where someone previous did play with some wiring. My issue is that I have intermittent power to the blade pull switch and NO power at all with the key in any position. When I say no "power" I mean that it is dead and does NOTHING...I replaced the ignition and clean all connections, replaced both fuzes, checked all safety switches for continuity (all came back good), I haven't found any wires so far grounding out or that are severed. There is a ballast resistor I believe that it on the side of the engine next to the starter, checked it for continuity and it has it. There is something similar (some type of resistor or module?) on the left side if you are sitting on the mower that has about 8-10 wires going into it and it is sealed with a gel/tar. I believe it is number 17 on page 66 of this manual. Is there a way to test it? What problems could that part produce?

http://www.scag.com/OPManuals/STWC/2...273 Rev2.pdf

Also, number 9 in the same picture is a relay. Might be having issues with it, maybe not. I made jumper wires and wired around it in efforts to get off a job site with intermittent success so it leads me to think it might not be an issue... I have to admit that I am totally lost here... Has anyone had similar issues? Thanks in advance!"

 

[scagmaniac]

Hello everyone. I was searching the internet and found this thread to be the best resource in trying to solve the same problem I had. Thanks for all the great information, it helped me finally figure this one out.

I have a 2003 tiger cub 48 that had intermittent starting problems and I will tell you what I did to fix the problem. Turning the key I would hear a click, sometimes not at all. Sometimes it would start fine, other times not. What I nightmare I had throwing parts at this but I think the problem is finally solved, fingers and toes crossed.

Suspecting it was the starter/solenoid because it appeared to overheat, I replaced it and it seemed to work again for awhile and then the same problem returned a couple weeks later. I replaced the ignition switch and relay with diode under the throttle control panel, even though both were probably fine. One of the two -20 amp fuses seemed to be malfunctioning and I replaced both of them also, but still the same problem again. All safety switches appeared fine, (the one under the seat seems to get the most work out). I had the old interlock module and replaced it with the new one and this baby now seemed to be working great... until the problem returned when I shut the mower down and tried to start it again!:ashamed: I noticed the solenoid was red hot again for some reason and the battery terminals and connections looked like they had a work out. Checked the battery and it was only 11.8 volts.! So looking carefully I figured out what was actually happening. My battery was discharging when I was operating the machine. Faulty charging system, regulator?, nope.

My problem actually began when I replaced my battery at the start of the last years new season. It was shorting across the terminals because it would come in contact with the underside the seat. This nightmare started when I decided to increase my battery to a 335 CCA from a 225 CCA, big mistake! Even though these batteries look almost identical, the 335 CCA is 1/8" taller. I found out the battery cannot be any bigger that 6" tall, the 335 CCA batter was 6 1/8" which was just enough for the top of the terminals to come in contact with the metal seat every time the mower bounced and hit a bump! It was shorting even though I had the positive terminal semi-insulated. So here is what I did, I bought a new 6" tall battery with 225 CCA, 2 new terminal insulators, and now everything is all good. So after hundreds spent, I think the problem is finally solved. So with that, make sure your battery is the correct height and not shorting across the terminals like mine, expensive lesson!!! The interlock module and a fuse could have been a contributing factor to my problem, but I will never know for sure if they were agitated by a shorting battery.

I will check in later to update. Best of luck to anyone who has this problem.

 

[mcdonell]

Great "no crank" troubleshooting thread Thanks Mad Mackie and to Scagmaniac for updating and providing your experience..

I also had the sometime no crank issue on my 2014 Cheetah. Threw a lot of parts at it like battery, switches, relays. I finally bought a module and found a bad connection while replacing the module. I fixed the connection in the connector and left the old module on the mower. So far, mower has started every time, hot or cold. This is the longest I have gone without a no start occurrence. I am hopeful it is finally fixed. The cheetah is a great mower if it will start.

 

[ScagRider71]

Big thanks to mad mackie!!!! I have this same problem of intermittent starting on my tiger cat. It finally blew a fuse and would not start at all.
Fortunately, I found this forum before I started buying parts. Changed the relay and fuse and it started right up.

 

[AbeFroman12]

Thanks for the quick reply on this old thread Mackie. I have really battled trying to get this issue resolved. The engine will start and run if I bypass the safety system.

Having tested the key switch in every position, all safety switches individually as well as at the interlock module plug, I then replaced the relay switch. I found out that I am not getting a ground coming out of the interlock module. As I understand it, the interlock module only provides a ground if all the safety systems are compliant.

I confirmed power from the key switch on the green wire to the relay switch, but I did not hear a click in the relay. I then bench tested the new relay switch and confirmed 85+86 clicks and confirmed that 87+87a connect (have continuity) on the click. This was true of the old relay switch as well, but I wanted to eliminate the diode from being the problem, so I replaced the relay with a new one.

Recognizing that I am getting no ground out of the interlock module (green/blk) to activate the relay, I pulled the green/black wire out of the module plug and ran a jumper from my negative terminal on the battery to it. My goal was just to see if the relay would click. However, somewhat to my surprise the engine started up and runs fine. Keep in mind that the interlock module is not even on the machine right now. While it was running I also confirmed on the amp meter that it is also throwing a full charge.

So, with this bit of information, having tested all the switches, all the way to to the module plug, and now confirming that the engine starts and runs without the interlock module in place, am I safe to conclude that the interlock module is faulty?

I want to order a new one if it is, but welcome your input to advise of anything else that I should check. Also, aside from the obvious safety hazards, are there any other mechanical/electrical concerns with running the motor without the safety interlock module in place?

Thanks,

GW

Great thread as it has been very helpful to me since I am going through a very similar issue (which I have not yet resolved) on my Scag Wildcat (early 2000's model). Quick question in regards to this post -- how would I check and/or determine if the interlock module is providing (or completing) the ground through the green w/ black stripe wire??? Is there a way to test if I am getting the necessary ground at the ignition relay switch? I have a multi-meter, but am not yet great with using it. Would a continuity test allow me to determine if the ground is being completed? Thanks.

 

[1bobo#]

Would like to know in detail exactly how to bypass the safety system...would rather do without it.

Did you find out how to bypass the electronic module , safety system . . I'd like to know how also and have you had any problems since .

 

[bertsmobile1]

Did you find out how to bypass the electronic module , safety system . . I'd like to know how also and have you had any problems since .

As a matter of principle the site members will rarely advise any one how to bypass inbuilt safety switches weather we believe they are a good idea or not.
I for one feel the only switch that should be retained is the seat switch but there is no way i will advise any one on how to bypass any others.
You could be a very responsible person who checks the lawns for things like electrical cable & wires then makes sure there are no people outside & you todlers ( & the neighbours todlers ) are all safe inside before you start your mower.
However this is an open forum so any totally irresponsible idiot can then access the same information then cross post it everywhere because to the really stupid bypassing every safety device is a blow for the freedom of the individual .

If you have a specific problem then we will be happy to assist with the diagnosis.
Scags tend to use a complicated interlock module intergrated with the hour meter and it is quite difficult to bypass it .
And the more people who do bypass it then the more complicated the switches become
he more complicated the switches become the more prone they are to failure
So you end up in a never ending spiral of more expensive modules that are less reliable

Now I did not mean to sound like a preacher but that is just how things are every mower that leaves the workshop leaves with all of the sfety switches working weaher they have been deliberately dissabled by the owner or not .