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Craftsman Pro Series 8200 PTO cuts off and on

#1

J

JimmyIron

I have a Craftsman Pro Series 8200 that the electronic PTO was cutting off when mowing the yard. I did a lot of research and replaced the PTO switch, Electronic PTO clutch, initially and still had the same issue. The mower at times seemed to not want to start ( already have new battery) and so I replaced the ignition switch. It started up normally but still had the issue with PTO switch engaging but cutting off.

I checked voltage of battery ... with motor off 13 volts.. with engine running on high idle 15 volts. So after more research I replaced the voltage regulator and took a chance to replaced the interlok since it was pretty cheap. It seemed to fix the issue.. it ran and PTO stayed engaged. That lasted about 4 times around the large back yard... and it everything seemed to be working fine. Then all of a sudden it started to cut off.. and on. What was really weird as was pissed and stomped on the forward pedal and the PTO would engage but cut off... each time I hit the pedal hard, PTO would engage and then cut off.

Anyone have experience with some weird issue like this? Already replaced PTO switch, Electronic PTO clutch, Ignition key switch, Interlok switch and the voltage regultor.

So frustrated with this thing. otherwise engine runs really good.

thanks

Jim


#2

I

ILENGINE

So now after throwing the kitchen sink at it, can you supply us the model and serial numbers from the tag under the seat so we can go look at a wiring diagram to help diagnose this issue.


#3

J

JimmyIron

Hi ILengine,

Yes it is starting to feel like I threw the kitchen sink at it and still not working. Did a lot of research and looking at videos and since parts didn't cost too much, it was worth trying.

Model # 247.270420
Serial # 1A077H20163

Appreciate your help...

Jimmy


#4

I

ILENGINE

Worked on a customers Cub cadet last month that was having a similar issue, and found that the wires to the reverse safety switch were shorting out. And in his case the RMC wouldn't engage.


#5

StarTech

StarTech

Well he forgot to throw the wiring harness in there too.

I have never figure why those without the knowledge are so willing to just throw money at the problem but yet a unwilling to take to someone that does. I had a customer several years to throw over $500 in parts at the problem of his. Then he finally brought the mower into my shop. It turn out to be $1 terminal that was the root of the problem. So it would had only cost him $75 but ended up costing him nearly $600 when I added a hour of my ship time.

To me it sounds like a loose electrical connection. Being a 2017 made unit it has enough time for the Delphi terminals to start to fail in the wire connectors.


#6

Tiger Small Engine

Tiger Small Engine

ILENGINE said:
Worked on a customers Cub cadet last month that was having a similar issue, and found that the wires to the reverse safety switch were shorting out. And in his case the RMC wouldn't engage.
Click to expand...
Throwing parts at issues on equipment isn’t usually worth doing because it is expensive, time consuming, and not the proper way to repair problems.


#7

I

ILENGINE

Tiger Small Engine said:
Throwing parts at issues on equipment isn’t usually worth doing because it is expensive, time consuming, and not the proper way to repair problems.
Click to expand...
Last year the dealer replaced the electric clutch and pto switch because the pto kept kicking out, and would start and stop at randon while mowing.


#8

StarTech

StarTech

Ahhh I just found a image of the wiring harness. It got that stupid hidden relay that likes to fail. I would suggest replacing the relay. I have had them to fail like the problem described.
1716985407437.png
1716985643955.png

Located in the operator tower.


#9

J

JimmyIron

StarTech said:
Well he forgot to throw the wiring harness in there too.

I have never figure why those without the knowledge are so willing to just throw money at the problem but yet a unwilling to take to someone that does. I had a customer several years to throw over $500 in parts at the problem of his. Then he finally brought the mower into my shop. It turn out to be $1 terminal that was the root of the problem. So it would had only cost him $75 but ended up costing him nearly $600 when I added a hour of my ship time.

To me it sounds like a loose electrical connection. Being a 2017 made unit it has enough time for the Delphi terminals to start to fail in the wire connectors.
Click to expand...
Thanks Star Tech... will try that part next... Today got a electrical smell.. so must be some relay or something burned. I'll take the gas tank out and look for that relay in the tower.

As to why some of us don't automatically go to a pro is that I like to try and fix stuff myself. I do have experience as a vehicle mechanic for 30 plus years. For stuff on small engines like mowers and electronic PTOs, my knowledge is lacking... but always willing to learn. Also its good to go to a tech if you can find an honest one that isn't going to charge you a ton of money.

Thanks and will give update once I have one.
Jimmy


#10

J

JimmyIron

Just checked schematic at sears parts and this relay is nowhere on my wiring harness... Searched for that relay and doesn't show to be part of my model tractor.


#11

StarTech

StarTech

That is because MTD don't want you just buying the relay; they want you buying the whole wiring harness. I found multiple MTD built mowers that this relay is not listed for either but it is still there. This why I looked the harness image to verify that it was present or not.

It was shown on a lot of the electrical schematics but I couldn't find the part listed either. It took removing a harness to find it on the CC ZTR that PTO was giving problems of just shutting down after I mowed with for 30 minutes. I would backup which disengaged the PTO but it would not re-engage going forward.

If you look at the image from my database you see several optional supplier PNs.


#12

Tiger Small Engine

Tiger Small Engine

JimmyIron said:
Thanks Star Tech... will try that part next... Today got a electrical smell.. so must be some relay or something burned. I'll take the gas tank out and look for that relay in the tower.

As to why some of us don't automatically go to a pro is that I like to try and fix stuff myself. I do have experience as a vehicle mechanic for 30 plus years. For stuff on small engines like mowers and electronic PTOs, my knowledge is lacking... but always willing to learn. Also its good to go to a tech if you can find an honest one that isn't going to charge you a ton of money.

Thanks and will give update once I have one.
Jimmy
Click to expand...
Not picking on you, however, with 30 years as a vehicle mechanic, you of all people know that replacing parts without seriously attempting to diagnose the actual problem is not the way to go about it. I would say that most repair shops are honest and try to do the right thing. I would also say that labor rates are high because of payroll, expenses, overhead, etc. There is a competitor that is not always honest, is expensive, and can have a mean temper. He is the best competitor I have because he sometimes drives business my way.


#13

J

JimmyIron

StarTech said:
Ahhh I just found a image of the wiring harness. It got that stupid hidden relay that likes to fail. I would suggest replacing the relay. I have had them to fail like the problem described.
View attachment 68784
View attachment 68785

Located in the operator tower.
Click to expand...


Ahhh .. Found the relay on wiring harness close to body of engine. Ordered and should have it this Saturday. will update as soon as I install and test.

Thanks.

Jimmy


#14

J

JimmyIron

StarTech said:
That is because MTD don't want you just buying the relay; they want you buying the whole wiring harness. I found multiple MTD built mowers that this relay is not listed for either but it is still there. This why I looked the harness image to verify that it was present or not.

It was shown on a lot of the electrical schematics but I couldn't find the part listed either. It took removing a harness to find it on the CC ZTR that PTO was giving problems of just shutting down after I mowed with for 30 minutes. I would backup which disengaged the PTO but it would not re-engage going forward.

If you look at the image from my database you see several optional supplier PNs.
Click to expand...
Yeah that is the problem I have with small engine repairs... hard to find good info online. Nothing like working on automobiles.. lots of information and diagrams out there. I'm thankful for blogs like this one and you guys who have experience and are willing to take the time to help.

I do appreciate it!

Jimmy


#15

S

shootinblanks

JimmyIron said:
I have a Craftsman Pro Series 8200 that the electronic PTO was cutting off when mowing the yard. I did a lot of research and replaced the PTO switch, Electronic PTO clutch, initially and still had the same issue. The mower at times seemed to not want to start ( already have new battery) and so I replaced the ignition switch. It started up normally but still had the issue with PTO switch engaging but cutting off.

I checked voltage of battery ... with motor off 13 volts.. with engine running on high idle 15 volts. So after more research I replaced the voltage regulator and took a chance to replaced the interlok since it was pretty cheap. It seemed to fix the issue.. it ran and PTO stayed engaged. That lasted about 4 times around the large back yard... and it everything seemed to be working fine. Then all of a sudden it started to cut off.. and on. What was really weird as was pissed and stomped on the forward pedal and the PTO would engage but cut off... each time I hit the pedal hard, PTO would engage and then cut off.

Anyone have experience with some weird issue like this? Already replaced PTO switch, Electronic PTO clutch, Ignition key switch, Interlok switch and the voltage regultor.

So frustrated with this thing. otherwise engine runs really good.

thanks

Jim
Click to expand...
check associated wires. either that or the connectors there is a disruption between the pto switch and the solenoid, guaranteed


#16

I

ILENGINE

JimmyIron said:
Yeah that is the problem I have with small engine repairs... hard to find good info online. Nothing like working on automobiles.. lots of information and diagrams out there. I'm thankful for blogs like this one and you guys who have experience and are willing to take the time to help.

I do appreciate it!

Jimmy
Click to expand...
Very true. There is the range of some OEM's don't produce service manuals to some that are very good ie JD to some that wouldn't make good fire starter. MTD products especially are bad at not keeping up with service manuals and what that have are 10+ years old. And don't have wiring schematics, and tech support will tell you to your face that the mower you are working on doesn't use relays when you have 3 in your hand from the mower.


#17

F

Freddie21

I would go right to the seat switch and the reverse switch.


#18

J

JimmyIron

StarTech said:
That is because MTD don't want you just buying the relay; they want you buying the whole wiring harness. I found multiple MTD built mowers that this relay is not listed for either but it is still there. This why I looked the harness image to verify that it was present or not.

It was shown on a lot of the electrical schematics but I couldn't find the part listed either. It took removing a harness to find it on the CC ZTR that PTO was giving problems of just shutting down after I mowed with for 30 minutes. I would backup which disengaged the PTO but it would not re-engage going forward.

If you look at the image from my database you see several optional supplier PNs
Click to expand...
Replaced the relay today and that didn't make a difference. I also went ahead and deleted the plugs from the wiring harness to the PTO.. Direct wired them as the plugs seemed not super tight and I could jiggle them slightly. Same thing.. didn't do anything to fix the issue.


#19

J

JimmyIron

Freddie21 said:
I would go right to the seat switch and the reverse switch.
Click to expand...
Since I've thrown the kitchen sink at it.. ... I never thought about replacing the seat switch, because wouldn't the motor cut off if that was bad? It runs fine, its just the PTO coming on and off while running. Motor never dies.

Also searched sears parts central and there is no listing for a reverse switch. There is a reverse electrical harness listed for my mower.


#20

I

ILENGINE

JimmyIron said:
Since I've thrown the kitchen sink at it.. ... I never thought about replacing the seat switch, because wouldn't the motor cut off if that was bad? It runs fine, its just the PTO coming on and off while running. Motor never dies.

Also searched sears parts central and there is no listing for a reverse switch. There is a reverse electrical harness listed for my mower.
Click to expand...
This maybe a better parts reference for your mower

www.partstree.com

PartsTree - Home of OEM Parts for Outdoor Power Equipment

Parts lookup and repair parts diagrams for outdoor equipment like Toro mowers, Cub Cadet tractors, Husqvarna chainsaws, Echo trimmers, Briggs engines, etc.
www.partstree.com www.partstree.com


#21

J

JimmyIron

ILENGINE said:
This maybe a better parts reference for your mower

www.partstree.com

PartsTree - Home of OEM Parts for Outdoor Power Equipment

Parts lookup and repair parts diagrams for outdoor equipment like Toro mowers, Cub Cadet tractors, Husqvarna chainsaws, Echo trimmers, Briggs engines, etc.
www.partstree.com www.partstree.com
Click to expand...
Thanks Bro


#22

J

JimmyIron

shootinblanks said:
check associated wires. either that or the connectors there is a disruption between the pto switch and the solenoid, guaranteed
Click to expand...
I replaced the connectors past the main wiring harness plug... direct wired them and same results. all the wires from the ignition switch down seem fine... nothing obvious.


#23

J

JimmyIron

Finally got it figured out that I was having a weird wire break issue... that lead to the ground connection for the PTO to not work. This was a weird issue that gradually got worse where the mower wouldn't even start.

I ended up cutting the ground wire to the PTO and then crimping an electrical connector to that end. Attached it directly to the frame and it is now working correctly. This does bypass the reverse safety, but I'm okay with it as I found the procedure to go in reverse and cut a pain the the butt. No little ones around to be worried about

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who had offered suggestions and advice.

Thanks,

Jimmy


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