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Considering the HRX217VKA vs the HRX217HYA.

Background: House on 1/4 lot, slight hills, lots of turning due to landscaping. Not a lot of straight back and forth mowing, maybe half. After giving up on lawn services, I used a Scott's reel mower, and it did the whole yard for about two years and then just became unusable on about 20% of the yard which is too thick/soft and requires a power mower. (The mower itself is fine and properly adjusted, the grass just got more lush in certain areas. I have looked into this with Scott's and I have tried my neighbor's reel mower, same problem). I also need to bag several times a year for leaves and things. Mainly live oak leaves (small, shed multiple times per year). Also red oak. The grass is bermuda, but my neighbor just put in some St Augustine, so I will have it soon. I mulch most of the time. Will probably move in a few years - who knows what my yard will be like?

Looking at the two mowers above - main difference being the HYA has roto-stop and the Cruise Control transmission, vs Smart Drive. The dealer said both are great, but he would choose the HYA due to the transmission. Thinks it works better for him personally, and has greater longevity. I really like the idea of being able to stop the blade without killing the motor. Unsure about the difference in transmissions. (The current power mower I used last year is a front wheel drive hand me down that runs poorly, but has 3 fixed speeds, and it has worked, but I can just tilt the mower back and lift the drive wheels, something I will not be able to do with the Hondas.)

Thoughts on choosing between the two? Which transmission is more proven for longevity (I assume all the other components are similar as to longevity).

I also have a number of questions:

1) In looking at model numbers, I notice the same model number with a K2, K3, K4 inserted in the middle. The dealer tells me those are essentially revisions. How do I make sure I get the most current model and not end up with last year's or earlier versions of this year's model?

2) Maintenance - looking at the owners manual, it says every year (or 100 hrs) there are a number of things you need to take it to a dealer for service. Clean the fuel tank/filter. Adjust the idle speed. Check and adjust valve clearance. Grease the pinion gears. Every two years take it in for rear wheel bushings to be greased. Do you really need to take the Honda mowers to the dealer every year for these items? The dealer told me none of this is necessary - just do oil, air filter and spark plug and bring it in only if it is running badly.

3) Gas - dealer said midgrade or premium only, no gas older than 30 days. Are the engines/carburetors that picky? Is this necessary? As far as I know, the manual says regular gas is fine.

4) The dealer said if I get the HYA, for the first season I need to start it, let it run on low for awhile before engaging the blade and mowing. He was not very clear, just said it would be bad to start it, put it in high, engage the clutch and take off. Said something about longevity, breaking in the clutch... He did not make sense to me. What do you think of this?

5) I will likely store the mower outdoors, under a covered patio, where rain will not get to it. Are there any significant drawbacks to this?

6) Lastly, I found this one post from a guy who helps out at his Dad's small engine repair business, and says he sees tons of the HRX mowers with problems. Rather than repeat, it is the last post in this thread: http://www.autopia.org/forum/hot-tub/136141-honda-lawnmower-2.html (I take all postings with a grain of salt, but wondered if this rings a bell with anybody).

Spending this much on a mower I want it to work well, last a loooonnnggg time, and not require tons of maintenance. I have no luck with my edger/trimmer after it sits idle for an off season. Tips to avoid such with a mower would be welcomed.

Thanks for any thoughts. Don't take any of my post as negative to Honda, just asking questions.

Chirp, chirp, chirp...

I can't answer some of your questions but I will answer what I can. Personally I would get the HYA (that is the mower I have), because I like the Roto-Stop, but maybe you would like the Smart Drive (on the VKA) since you have a lot of flowerbeds you need to mow around so you can change your speed. But you can also changed your speed quickly on the HYA by only pushing in the drive lever half way or so, along with adjusting the orange lever to change speed.

As for if you need to take it to the dealer every year for all of those adjustments, I take it to the dealer for the general blade sharpening, oil, spark plug, etc. but only because I don't have the tools at home to do it myself. I don't get those extra things checked, but maybe you would want to. Personally I would only take it in if it has issues (plus the general maintenance).

I use regular gas, but a lot of people on here say not to, because of the "bad gas these days". If you are going to let it sit over winter either drain the gas out or run it every once and awhile.

As for letting it run for awhile before engaging the blades, I don't do that, but it doesn't mean I am doing the right thing. The guy who delivered the mower DID say to let it idle on low for maybe 10 seconds before turning it off so it does not backfire, but that's all. Not a big deal.

I hope that helps a little, and Robert@Honda should be able to help you with your other questions. Please feel free to ask me if you have any other questions, and make sure you let us know what you decide! :smile:

I think that you are looking a what are perhaps two of the best lawn mowers on the market today. Still I would not try to talk you out of looking at other brands and critically comparing them all. My personal choice in outdoor power equipment is Honda, and I will just say that it is based on my own personal experience with a number of different brands with engines from different manufactures.

Let me offer these answers in response to your questions.

1) The dealer was correct. The higher the number, the more recent the revision, and the dealer should be able to tell you what they were.

2)There is a reason Honda, or any other manufacturer, recommends certain things be done simply because it increases the likelihood of longevity if those areas are maintained on a regular basis. I suppose it also satisfies the issues for warranty coverage, and I believe Honda's warranty is very good. Many of those things could probably be done by the owner himself, but that might bring warranty issues into question. So, for the period of the warranty, it might not be a bad idea to follow the recommendations outlined in the owner's manual and warranty.

3)Todays gas with ethanol is hard on any small engine, no matter the manufacturer. It is not recommended to keep more on hand than you can use in 30 days for any small engine. Always use Stabil, or similar product in your gas.

4)You should ask him to clarify. One thing you could do for now is look at Honda Power Equipment's web site and down load a pdf copy of the owner's manuals for the mowers you are interested in and see what Honda has to say first hand.

5)Anything will stay cleaner, nicer and last longer if stored inside, but we're not all lucky enough to have the garage, or space in a garage to store everything. Honda sells covers for their mowers, and they are probably available as an after market item too.

6)Guy doesn't really define what "tons" is, but they do talk about the detrimental effects of ethanol gasoline. He is talking about the GCV190 engine, I believe. I personally have a lawn mower with a GCV160 engine, which is basically the same engine as the GCV190, that has run reliably since 1999, and admittedly, I have not taken as good of care of it as I have other mowers and engines.

There are certain recommendations covered in the owner's manuals for long term storage that if followed, will make starting and operating you mower the following season easier.

Another thing I'd recommend you do is ask to take the mowers you are looking at for a "test drive". See how the different controls and features feel to you first hand before committing to buying.

Hope that helps. I'm sure others will chime in too.

rewom said:

... K2, K3, K4 inserted in the middle. The dealer tells me those are essentially revisions. How do I make sure I get the most current model and not end up with last year's or earlier versions of this year's model?

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The K-code = version of a model. The higher the number, the more current the version. The HRX models are currently at version K4 (January, 2013); this update adds Autochoke, and introduces a lower cost electric start model. HRX units are available with the deluxe Cruise Control (hydrostatic) drive system, or the simplified SmartDRVIE variable speed, slip-belt design. Older K3 models may be available at a discount. The K-code is always included in the serial number sticker on the rear of the mower deck, and also on a small white label on the outside of the carton:

rewom said:

Do you really need to take the Honda mowers to the dealer every year for these items?

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No. You can DIY in most cases. Some special tools are required for certain procedures (feeler gauge for valve adjustment, torque wrench for blade installation, etc.) To comply with the terms of the warranty, you just need to document all required service procedures were done per the Maintenance Schedule. A great investment is a paper Shop Manual, which is loaded with details on how to do everything from changing a spark plug to a full overhaul of the engine. Honda sells Shop Manuals direct on their eBay store (free shipping and updated for 3 years); here's a link: Honda Shop Manuals on eBay

rewom said:

...Are the engines/carburetors that picky? Is this necessary? As far as I know, the manual says regular gas is fine.

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#1 problem customers have with hard-starting or poor running mowers happens when fuel is allowed to sit untreated > 30 days. 99% of automotive gasoline sold today contains at least some ethanol, and such fuel *will* decay and cause problems. This can easily be avoided by NOT allowing fuel to sit in the mower's tank > 30 days. Simply let it run dry / out of fuel if you don't expect to run the mower for more than a month, or drain out all the fuel. You may also elect to treat the fuel with a stablizer additive, and this can extend the lifespan of the fuel. But, for my machines, draining or running them dry is 100% effective at preventing fuel-related problems.

Using regular unleaded gasoline is just fine; going with a mid-grade or higher octane fuel is NOT going to help unless the fuel does NOT contain ethanol. This can be hard to find, and is often more costly than fuels that do contain ethanol. Again, regular unleaded with ethanol is fine, just don't let it sit in the mower's tank for > 30 days.

rewom said:

...it would be bad to start it, put it in high, engage the clutch and take off. Said something about longevity, breaking in the clutch... He did not make sense to me. What do you think of this?

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Being a bit gentle when operating any equipment will help. You'll get better results if you simply let the engine warm up all the way (about a minute or two) before starting the blade or engaging the drive wheels.

rewom said:

5) I will likely store the mower outdoors, under a covered patio, where rain will not get to it. Are there any significant drawbacks to this?

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Insects, dirt, dust, etc. can cause problems. Rain/moisture can accelerate corrosion of steel parts. If you must store it outdoors, clean under the mower deck, discharge chute, grass bag, etc. and cover it.

rewom said:

...he sees tons of the HRX mowers with problems.

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The HRX has been on the market for 10 years now, and has consistently won praise from journalists and owner's alike. It is a "top pick" in almost every list you can find out there. The HRX comes with a five year warranty (six if you register it between now and the end of May) and a lifetime warranty on the NeXite / composite mower deck. It's not without flaws, but most people who've owned / used one will tell you it's the best mower ever.

Hope this helps...

Thanks all, a big help. Even though I had looked at the manual briefly, it always helps to be told to look again at what the manufacturer said - and I looked more places in the manual this time and between the manual, your posts and the dealer felt ready to buy.

I went to a different dealer and after a few questions I bought the HYA for $699. The current (K4) version. He wheeled it off the floor, put the oil in, gassed it up, registered it for me, and we loaded it up. I think at least two other dealers are selling the K3 and possibly K2 version for the same price. (The hang tag said K2 at the prior dealer but I did not look on the mower).

I knew higher octane gas would do nothing for an engine not designed for it - it is not better or cleaner, just higher octane. Just wanted confirmation. The owners manual (about storage) makes it pretty easy to figure out how to deal with the gas aspect. By the way, it is pretty easy to get ethanol free gas - they sell it in cans at the dealer or Home Depot, for outrageous prices of course. They also have it premixed with oil for 2 stroke engines. And it is stabilized. I do not think it makes sense for a mower given the cost, but may well make sense for a weed whacker.

Well, now I have to go through the manual (yeah, I actually do read them for some things I buy), and will be doing some mowing very soon. Will probably post back once I have done both.

Congratulations, I'm sure you'll be very happy with both the mower, and from the sounds of things, with the dealer you bought it from as well.

Don't know where you live for sure, but if there is any kind of boating around where you are, there may be gas stations that sell non-ethanol gas from the pumps. I live along the Mississippi river, and stations that are close to the river and cater to boaters sell it.

Look forward to hearing how you like your new mower.

Great choice!! :thumbsup: I'm sure you will be happy with your choice and make sure you let us know how you like it! :smile:

5)Anything will stay cleaner, nicer and last longer if stored inside, but we're not all lucky enough to have the garage, or space in a garage to store everything. Honda sells covers for their mowers, and they are probably available as an after market item too.



Honda Silver LM Cover for HRR and HRX Series Walk Mowers.

Animated .GIFs are a thing now...

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y483/robertathonda/lmcover_zpsa29267e8.gif

Going to give back the mower I had borrowed from a relative. Burning off a tank and a half of old mixed gas now.

Decided why not do my Ryobi trimmer at the same time? About 300 pulls later, it started!!! (Ok, it probably only took 50-70 pulls, but it sat all winter with gas bought early last year, no Stabil). Burned up all the gas in it and will pay attention going forward! When it dies, I am open to other brands, but they would have to take all the attachments I already have - string trimmer, blower, edger, tree trimmer.

As to a cover, rodents and insects LIKE dark spaces. I am going to keep it uncovered so that I see it every day and do not get a surprise when I remove the cover. It is well protected from the elements, and I have a rat trap within a few feet of the mower. May change my mind, but that is how I am starting out.

-Tsunami- said:

5)Anything will stay cleaner, nicer and last longer if stored inside, but we're not all lucky enough to have the garage, or space in a garage to store everything. Honda sells covers for their mowers, and they are probably available as an after market item too.



Honda Silver LM Cover for HRR and HRX Series Walk Mowers.
View attachment 13245

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robert@honda said:

Animated .GIFs are a thing now...

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y483/robertathonda/lmcover_zpsa29267e8.gif

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Those look good! :thumbsup:

I too have Bermuda Grass. You are going to like the roto stop feature especially if you "scalp and bag" in the spring. Also the variable rear discharge/mulch will be great for the thick summers think bermuda along with the high torq 190cc engine. I have yet to pick up a HRX Honda but it is on my list to buy. The HRX is probably the best rotary mower for Bermuda grass that is properly maintained.

Used the mower for the first time. I am very impressed. Quieter than my old mower, much better suction, the bag is a lot easier to use.

Going from front wheel drive to rear wheel is an adjustment (almost mowed right into the flower beds when I first went to turn). Took me a bit to realize how to hold the handle so that it held only the roto-stop and my other hand could then easily release the drive engagement.

stygz, I am doing the spring scalp and bag, and if I did not have roto-stop my shoulder would be sore from pulling the rope. And I only did 1/4 of the yard before it was dinner time! I used my air compressor to blow the mower clean afterwards, something I have never done before, but it just looked wrong being dirty.

So far, so good! Now if it would only pick up the thousands of acorns left behind...

rewom said:

Used the mower for the first time. I am very impressed. Quieter than my old mower, much better suction, the bag is a lot easier to use.

Going from front wheel drive to rear wheel is an adjustment (almost mowed right into the flower beds when I first went to turn). Took me a bit to realize how to hold the handle so that it held only the roto-stop and my other hand could then easily release the drive engagement.

stygz, I am doing the spring scalp and bag, and if I did not have roto-stop my shoulder would be sore from pulling the rope. And I only did 1/4 of the yard before it was dinner time! I used my air compressor to blow the mower clean afterwards, something I have never done before, but it just looked wrong being dirty.

So far, so good! Now if it would only pick up the thousands of acorns left behind...

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I'm glad you like it!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Finished up the yard, turbo style. Only had an hour before sunset, and it was to rain the next few days (and it did rain the next morning). One quart of gas, one hour, lots of scalping and bagging to do.

Worked great. Fortunately I bought one of those cardboard funnels at Home Depot to make it easier to empty the bag into the 30 gallon paper clippings bag. I filled 14 or 15 of the 30 gallon bags, the last stretch done in the dark. Stopped the motor each time I emptied to save gas, and had plenty of gas left, and restarting it was no problem.

The cut looks really nice, much better than the old mower I was using. Glad to have the initial scalp behind me too. I think I could only walk about 50 feet before having to empty the bag.

What was your old mower? I have not seen those funnels you are talking about. I am about to scalp tomorrow or tonight. How much are the funnels?

When you say scalp do u mean cut the grass really short?

Bomba said:

When you say scalp do u mean cut the grass really short?

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Yes...some people cut really short for the first mowing in the spring to get out all the stuff in the lawn from over winter (leaves, etc.). :smile:

I scalp my yards over the winter.

(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))

The old mower was a relative's poorly maintained backup mower. (And it had been to the shop to fix it up before I got it as well as the year before.) Hard to start, not great suction, hard to empty bag. Changing speeds was hit or miss. Cracked and broken deck. But it was free, so I used it for a season then gave it back. Might have been a Toro but I put it out of my mind.

This is the lawn funnel: Amazon.com: Corrugated Lawn Funnel, 2 piece kit, Kraft: Everything Else Less than $2 at Home Depot, and they are folded flat like a box. Not the most durable thing (buy a couple?), but helps considerably.

I have bermuda grass, and the first mowing of the year is at 2 inches, after that it is 2.5 or maybe 3.0. (I did not know the heights, but there was an article in the paper right after I mowed, and I had done it right at 2 inches. Guess I have mowed too much.)

Bomba said:

When you say scalp do u mean cut the grass really short?

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Many that want their Bermuda to look its best "scalp" their lawn the first cut in the spring. This does a few things. First it picks up all the debris. Second it helps get the sun on the ground to help speed spring green up. Most Bermuda grass should be cut and maintained about 1-2 inches depending on what type of Bermuda you have. The shorter you cut it the more frequent you have to mow. People that are really serious buy reel type mowers because they cut below 1" on hybrid types of Bermuda. And no it does not burn up in the hot summers like you would think. I mow about 1.5 times a week and water about every 4 days with last years heat and drought. Here is an overview of the Bermuda bible. I dont follow it to a T as I dont want to be a slave to the turf.

Texas Weed Bermuda Bible - Lawn Care Forum - GardenWeb

rewom said:

The old mower was a relative's poorly maintained backup mower. (And it had been to the shop to fix it up before I got it as well as the year before.) Hard to start, not great suction, hard to empty bag. Changing speeds was hit or miss. Cracked and broken deck. But it was free, so I used it for a season then gave it back. Might have been a Toro but I put it out of my mind.

This is the lawn funnel: Amazon.com: Corrugated Lawn Funnel, 2 piece kit, Kraft: Everything Else Less than $2 at Home Depot, and they are folded flat like a box. Not the most durable thing (buy a couple?), but helps considerably.

I have bermuda grass, and the first mowing of the year is at 2 inches, after that it is 2.5 or maybe 3.0. (I did not know the heights, but there was an article in the paper right after I mowed, and I had done it right at 2 inches. Guess I have mowed too much.)

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Such a simple thing! I could have used that last night. I filled 13 of those Home Depot 30 gallon bags. I fill the bags and dump them. I fold and save the bags for the next time I need them. I cut at 1.5" and will maintain at 2.0 until I start to see those half moon crop circles. Than i move the deck up a notch. Depending on how level your ground is I think your HRX will go down to .75". I found my hybrid bermuda looks the best cut at 2.0. Less than 1" is for Golf courses IMO.

stygz said:

Many that want their Bermuda to look its best "scalp" their lawn the first cut in the spring. This does a few things. First it picks up all the debris. Second it helps get the sun on the ground to help speed spring green up. Most Bermuda grass should be cut and maintained about 1-2 inches depending on what type of Bermuda you have. The shorter you cut it the more frequent you have to mow. People that are really serious buy reel type mowers because they cut below 1" on hybrid types of Bermuda. And no it does not burn up in the hot summers like you would think. I mow about 1.5 times a week and water about every 4 days with last years heat and drought. Here is an overview of the Bermuda bible. I dont follow it to a T as I dont want to be a slave to the turf.

Texas Weed Bermuda Bible - Lawn Care Forum - GardenWeb

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How about Fescue? How low do I cut it?

lawn mower fanatic said:

Yes...some people cut really short for the first mowing in the spring to get out all the stuff in the lawn from over winter (leaves, etc.). :smile:

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Thanks for that. I was on my way to get my new Honda the other day and was passing a Tractor Supply store. So I stopped and went in. I saw the Cub Cadet with the front caster wheels. Now I'm torn between the two. I do think that the caster wheels would work best for my property. This is why I have not posted any pics yet. Arrrgggg! Lol!

Bomba said:

How about Fescue? How low do I cut it?

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Mowing Height

I would raise it .5" for the summers. Where are you in GA with fescue grass?

Bomba said:

Thanks for that. I was on my way to get my new Honda the other day and was passing a Tractor Supply store. So I stopped and went in. I saw the Cub Cadet with the front caster wheels. Now I'm torn between the two. I do think that the caster wheels would work best for my property. This is why I have not posted any pics yet. Arrrgggg! Lol!

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I like the Honda's. Honda has a 1 year extra warranty kicker going on now. That would be 6 years on an HRX. I can see the caster wheels being nice if you got alot of landscaping.

The HRX is probably one of the most refined walk behind mowers out there. Next would be a Toro super recycler.....without going commercial IMO.

stygz said:

I like the Honda's. Honda has a 1 year extra warranty kicker going on now. That would be 6 years on an HRX. I can see the caster wheels being nice if you got alot of landscaping.

The HRX is probably one of the most refined walk behind mowers out there. Next would be a Toro super recycler.....without going commercial IMO.

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Hi. I am near Dalton. I've been told it is Fescue, I don't know a whole lot about that. I know it's been green for a while now. Yeah, the Hondas are the best I've been told by a lot of people. My property is peppered with trees, curves, fences, walkways, landscaping, monkey grass, shrubs etc etc. it's not kind where you would use the Honda to just mow back and forth in straight lines. I have my Exmark for that. But, the HRX is what I would prefer. Also, I will be mostly mulching. And my 15 year old will be helping with mowing this year so I think she will find it a lot easier with the front casters.

Fescue likes to be around 3 inches. With all the rain and cold we been having I would cut it down to 2 inches. As it get hotter if it ever does go up the 3 inches then in July when it 99 degrees and no rain let it grow up to around 4 or 5.

(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))

Carscw said:

Fescue likes to be around 3 inches. With all the rain and cold we been having I would cut it down to 2 inches. As it get hotter if it ever does go up the 3 inches then in July when it 99 degrees and no rain let it grow up to around 4 or 5.

(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))

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Thank you CARS. I hope we get something that resembles Spring this year. For at least more than two weeks.

Bermuda cutting height: A well known landscape expert was in the paper saying scalp at 2", mow at 2.5" or a bit more. Going to his website, he has lower heights: 1.5"/2.0" inches!

I used a reel mower for 2-3 seasons. I cut it lower, but did not get any benefit except in one part of the yard. We have bad dirt (more rock than dirt when I replace a sprinkler head), and shade in a lot of the yard despite keeping the trees well trimmed. The bermuda in our yard and a few neighbors in a row never looks as nice as some others. When you compare grasses, I think we have a different bermuda, and we all probably have the bad dirt as the lots were graded at the same time. Several have replaced the grass with St Augustine, but it struggles as well so I lean to the dirt being the issue.

This would be a great time to try lower, but I will not be able to mow for a few weeks (travel) and it may be high by then so going lower would not be good.

BTW, I really liked using a reel mower (Scott's). It kicks up no dust or anything. I have to wear a respirator when I mow, but nothing using the reel mower. If I can, I will use the Honda some and the reel mower some. Reel mowers are not too good at edges and you cannot let the grass/weeds get too long or it will not cut.

Bermuda loves full sun. It will get real thin or die off if it does not get full sun for most of the day.

Bermuda grows best in sand but will grow with any soil. If you lay a strip of Bermuda sod on your driveway it will live and grow as long as you water it.

Bermuda is not grass it is a weed that people started using as grass many years ago because it grows like crazy and will fill in bald spots because it is a vine that's why it takes over sidewalks.

This is all on the test you take to become a golf pro

(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))

No doubt lots of sun is best. Here we have two grasses/weeds: Bermuda and St Augustine. Back when I looked, the sun difference is about 2 hours per day. I have yet to see one of my neighbors put in St Augustine where bermuda would not grow and be successful for more than a year or two, unless they cut a tree down (or lightning took it down), or trimmed it into a light pole - and bermuda would have worked in both cases.

I just put mulch in the areas around the tree trunk where grass will not grow, and have my trees trimmed by an arborist regularly.

I probably should aerate. I have a service that does a great job wih fertilizer and weed control. I have thought about laying down some sand as well to improve the soil. If you have any thoughts, I am all ears. It is not that my grass is bad, it is just not good. I have briefly looked into some low sun ground cover to take the place of my entire yard - some you mow just like grass. Doubt the homeowners association would go along...

Bomba said:

Thanks for that. I was on my way to get my new Honda the other day and was passing a Tractor Supply store. So I stopped and went in. I saw the Cub Cadet with the front caster wheels. Now I'm torn between the two. I do think that the caster wheels would work best for my property. This is why I have not posted any pics yet. Arrrgggg! Lol!

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I would just get the Honda. A lot of the mowers with caster wheels are heavier than others, so that could be a disadvantage even if it does have those wheels. I mow yards that have tons of landscaping and my Honda works great. :thumbsup:

rewom said:

No doubt lots of sun is best. Here we have two grasses/weeds: Bermuda and St Augustine. Back when I looked, the sun difference is about 2 hours per day. I have yet to see one of my neighbors put in St Augustine where bermuda would not grow and be successful for more than a year or two, unless they cut a tree down (or lightning took it down), or trimmed it into a light pole - and bermuda would have worked in both cases.

I just put mulch in the areas around the tree trunk where grass will not grow, and have my trees trimmed by an arborist regularly.

I probably should aerate. I have a service that does a great job wih fertilizer and weed control. I have thought about laying down some sand as well to improve the soil. If you have any thoughts, I am all ears. It is not that my grass is bad, it is just not good. I have briefly looked into some low sun ground cover to take the place of my entire yard - some you mow just like grass. Doubt the homeowners association would go along...

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It is best to top dress your yards every year or two with sand. Helps the soil and keeps your yard nice and smooth. No little dips or bumps

(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))