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Buying new mower help me decide

#1

B

Black Bart

I'm going to buy a new mower and have it down to a Z445 with KW engine and 54" deck or Simplicity champion with B&S engine and 52" deck.
I can get the Simplicity for $100.00 less than the JD but that really don't factor in that much.
Simplicity has 4 wheel suspension JD don't
Simplicity has 5 gallon fuel tank JD has 3 .5
Simplicity has full roller at rear of deck JD does not.

JD has 22" rear tires Simplicity has 20"
JD has a Hydro-gear drive the Simplicity has dual commercial pumps with hydraulic motors at the wheels.

Past 20 years I have been mowing with a 725 Grasshopper with 72" deck but I'm selling it and I want to replace it with something a little smaller.

I have a JD 430 diesel but only use it for blowing snow.
I have a JD 180 that is a nice little mower but I want to get another front deck machine.

I want to buy from a close dealer where I can get good service so I'm only considering these two brands so please NO suggestions on how I should buy something else just looking for advice on these 2 mowers.

I think I would prefer the KAW engine over the B&S but the suspension on the Simplicity looks nice what would you buy.


#2

BKBrown

BKBrown

Welcome to the Forum !

Not knowing either machine - one thing you might think about is that as you get older, you will appreciate anything that makes your ride more comfortable.

Good Luck with your choice !


#3

B

Black Bart

Welcome to the Forum !

Not knowing either machine - one thing you might think about is that as you get older, you will appreciate anything that makes your ride more comfortable.
[COLOR=#WFF][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#WFF]Good Luck with your choice ![/COLOR]
Well I'm 77 years old and have had 2 failed back surgeries so yes ride is a big deal .


#4

Briana

Briana

Hi Black Bart! Welcome to LawnMowerForum.com!! :smile:

Good luck finding your ideal mower. You've certainly come to the right place! :thumbsup:


#5

K

KennyV

Everything is looking better with the Simplicity except the rear wheels... "JD has 22" rear tires Simplicity has 20"...". I have always liked a larger tire...

but all other things are indicating that the Simplicity is the best choice...
Welcome to the forum and follow up with what you get... :smile:KennyV


#6

Sprinkler Buddy

Sprinkler Buddy

Everything is looking better with the Simplicity except the rear wheels... "JD has 22" rear tires Simplicity has 20"...". I have always liked a larger tire...

but all other things are indicating that the Simplicity is the best choice...
Welcome to the forum and follow up with what you get... :smile:KennyV

I would go with the Kawi.


#7

C

C&R Lawn Care

Ask to see if you can get the simplicity with the kawi motor if so that would be a great mower also another nice motor is the kholer commandor I'm sure they can get you it.


#8

B

Black Bart

Ask to see if you can get the simplicity with the kawi motor if so that would be a great mower also another nice motor is the Kohler commando I'm sure they can get you it.
I was interested in the Champion but they were sold out of them,

They have more on order should be arriving in a few days they are going to call me when it comes in so I can look at it.

I will ask about another engine but since B & S owns Simplicity not sure if they will offer a competing engine.

At my age I don't think I will ever wear it out regardless of what I get.


#9

K

KennyV

I will ask about another engine but since B & S owns Simplicity not sure if they will offer a competing engine.

At my age I don't think I will ever wear it out regardless of what I get.


I wouldn't worry too much about B&S ... they have been around since 1908... that's 103 years... they will be around for a while longer...:smile:KennyV


#10

B

Black Bart

I wouldn't worry too much about B&S ... they have been around since 1908... that's 103 years... they will be around for a while longer...:smile:KennyV
Yes their web site claims they sell 11 million engines per year that is a lot of engines.

I don't really worry about the Briggs but I would prefer a Kawasaki.

I bought a new 180 JD in 1986 and it has a Kawasaki and I have not put a wrench to it in 25 years.

Don't burn oil don't leak oil it just keeps going and going.


#11

twall

twall

.....I want to buy from a close dealer where I can get good service so I'm only considering these two brands so please NO suggestions on how I should buy something else just looking for advice on these 2 mowers.

I think I would prefer the KAW engine over the B&S but the suspension on the Simplicity looks nice what would you buy.

Sounds like you've placed enough stipulations on your 'choices'........seems you've already decided, and just want somebody else to confirm what you already want.

Go with what excites you the best, through the dealer that can service you the most.

I hate ZTR's, anyway, so I don't care really.......just looking through your posts.......


#12

C

Carl in CT

I'm not much for zero turns either but have only used them a little bit. John Deere and Simplicity are both great machines. I just bought a Simplicity Conquest tractor with the Vangaurd motor but seriously considered the JDs. Do you know which Briggs engine is on the Simplicity? I like Kawasakis a lot but a Briggs Vangaurd is right there with the Kawasakis. Other Briggs are good but not commercial like the Vangaurd and Kawasaki.

I hate Kohler Commands, never had any luck with them and they are expensive to fix and they need a lot of fixing. The Command is supposed to be their top of the line so I'd stay away from anything Kohler. When they made cast iron workhorses Kohler was king but now they just build average motors but charge a premium for their reputation that they don't live up to and they don't stand behind their products when they break either.

What about Skag zero truns? I don't know much about them myself but I know a lot of landscapers around here use them and like them a lot as far as durability.

Good luck!


#13

B

Black Bart

I'm not much for zero turns either but have only used them a little bit. John Deere and Simplicity are both great machines. I just bought a Simplicity Conquest tractor with the Vangaurd motor but seriously considered the JDs. Do you know which Briggs engine is on the Simplicity? I like Kawasakis a lot but a Briggs Vangaurd is right there with the Kawasakis. Other Briggs are good but not commercial like the Vangaurd and Kawasaki.

I hate Kohler Commands, never had any luck with them and they are expensive to fix and they need a lot of fixing. The Command is supposed to be their top of the line so I'd stay away from anything Kohler. When they made cast iron workhorses Kohler was king but now they just build average motors but charge a premium for their reputation that they don't live up to and they don't stand behind their products when they break either.

What about Skag zero truns? I don't know much about them myself but I know a lot of landscapers around here use them and like them a lot as far as durability.

Good luck!
Yes the engine is the professional series B&S
I was at the dealer last Tuesday and all he had was the smaller machine that don't have the 4 wheel suspension.
He said he had 2 on order and they would be in by the end of the week.
I ask him to call me when it came in but have not heard from him yet.

I talked to another dealer that sell both JD and Simplicity and when I mentioned the suspension he said yes Simplicity has a nice Gimmick their.

I ask him why he used the word Gimmick and he said because it is rock hard and don't move.

I want to see for myself but if the suspension don't work well then the JD has bigger tires and would ride better plus it has the Kawasaki engine and I will take it over the B&S any day.
.

I had 2 back surgeries and the ride is a big deal to me but if the Simplicity don't ride better then I will buy the JD.
It is only slightly more money and when I get ready to sell it I will get more for it than I would the Simplicity.


#14

BKBrown

BKBrown

I wonder why Simplicity would bother with all the extra parts for a suspension if they didn't intend for it to work ????? I wonder if that sales person just likes the Deere better or if they get more profit on the Deere ????
Have you asked in the Simplicity Thread about the suspension ?

I know you said you didn't want other suggestions, but do you have a Tractor Supply near you ? The Bad Boy has a suspension too and is made in USA. Just ignore this part if you like !


#15

B

Black Bart

I wonder why Simplicity would bother with all the extra parts for a suspension if they didn't intend for it to work ????? I wonder if that sales person just likes the Deere better or if they get more profit on the Deere ????
Have you asked in the Simplicity Thread about the suspension ?

I know you said you didn't want other suggestions, but do you have a Tractor Supply near you ? The Bad Boy has a suspension too and is made in USA. Just ignore this part if you like !
The Bad Boy is about $800.00 more.

I have a 725 Grasshopper with 72" deck that I have been using for 20 years.

Everything on it is original so it will soon need belts and the tires are all weather checking so 6 new tires will be needed soon.

I decided to sell it and buy a new one.
Since I'm at age where I won't be mowing many more years I don't need a commercial mower just a trouble free one for a few more years so a residential mower will be more than good enough.

Storage is a problem my Grasshopper is 12 feet long my 430 JD with the snow blower on it it a little over 12 feet plus my 180 JD and 3 hand mowers take up a lot of space.

Storing these and 5 cars and 2 pickup trucks has my garages full and I have decided to get rid of some stuff.

I have a buyer for the Grasshopper and I think I have a buyer for the 430 diesel.

When they get the Simplicity in I will find out if the suspension works or not should know some time next week I will post here what I find out..


#16

C

Carl in CT

Sorry for the long post but I want to share the info I found. I think the Briggs Pro engine is probably ok for non-commercial use but personally I would not risk it if you can get a Kawasaki for similar money. If you like the Simplicity better and are happy with a good but not commercial grade motor and you can save at least $700 versus the price of the mower with a Kawasaki then the Simplicity with the Briggs Pro may be a good choice.

The Briggs Pros I have seen have the electronic fuel management system which is supposed to be more like a car. It's electronically controlled and I think it has no choke, it does that for you so you just turn the key and it does the rest. Sounds nice but I don't know how proven it is as I think it's fairly new and that makes me nervous. You might want to research that further. I can tell you that in my personal opinion the Simplicity tractors I looked at are built far better than the comparable John Deeres. Don't get me wrong, I think very highly of the JDs and was actually set on buying one but the Simplicities really impressed me, which is why I bought one instead of the JD. I'm not sure how the ZTRs stack up to each other but I have used one of the very expensive high end commercial JD ZTRs and it was an impressive machine but cost well over $10,000.

Personally I will not buy a non-commercial motor again after having nothing but trouble with two Kohler Commands. The only Briggs motor I would consider commercial is the v-twin Vanguard since it is made by Daihatsu, an excellent Japanese manufacturer which is owned 51% by Toyota and produces parts and some entire cars for Toyota, mostly in non-US markets. That's a big difference from the rest of the Briggs line. (single cyclinder Vanguards are still made in the US by Briggs I think). All other Briggs motors are made by Briggs in the US and I hate to say this but they are not in the same class as the Japanese made Vanguards. I honestly don't know if Kawasaki makes different grade motors like everyone else, they probably do. I admit I tend to say all Kawasakis are great but you should try and find out exactly what model Kawasaki motor is on the JD and is it actually a commercial grade motor or not.

One thing I like about the 23hp Vanguard on my Simplicity is the oil cooler. One of my Kohler Commands ran hot all the time, no matter what I or the dealer did to try and help it run cooler, maybe an oil cooler would have helped. Might not be a big deal but I am glad my new mower has it, perhaps the Kawasakis have them too.

My best advice is not to be in a hurry if you can help it (but the grass is growing fast I know). I did a lot of research which is why I was comfortable going with a Simplcity with a Briggs Vanguard when I had been set on a JD with a Kawasaki. Most people lump motors together by brand but you really can't do that. You need to know what you are buying and you need to do all you can to try to eliminate the chances of down the road saying, "Doh, I knew I should have bought the other one!"


#17

B

Black Bart

Carl thanks for the info.
Like I posted above I have been mowing for the past 20 years with a 725 Grasshopper with a 72" deck and it is powered with a water cooled Kubota.

I'm selling it and buying a new mower but due to my age buying a Grasshopper or any other heavy built commercial mower would be a waste of money because I will not be around to wear it out.

When you get old it changes the way you look at things.

I still have not heard from the Simplicity dealer but it all depends on the suspension if it works good then I may buy the Simplicity but if it is solid like I have been told then the JD has much bigger tires and a comfortable seat with suspension under it so it may ride better.

The JD has a commercial Kawasaki and it has more power than the B&S in the Simplicity.
If I want to sell in a few years the JD would be easier to sell and command a higher price, better return on my money.

This is not an easy decision since both are great machines.


#18

C

Carl in CT

Water-cooled Kubota, now that's a sweet motor!!! I hope the JD/Simplicity dealer gives you the straight info, not just pushing the mower he makes the most money on. Some people say JD parts are more expensive but I don't know if that's true or not, might be.

Comfort is important. I just turned 40 and I appreciate a nice ride more than I did than when I was 20 and landscaping full time, being thrashed around on a one wheel sulky behind a JD commercial walk-behind mower. Actually I loved those and yup, they had Kawasaki motors that were used and abused and never missed a beat.


#19

B

Black Bart

Water-cooled Kubota, now that's a sweet motor!!! I hope the JD/Simplicity dealer gives you the straight info, not just pushing the mower he makes the most money on. Some people say JD parts are more expensive but I don't know if that's true or not, might be.

Comfort is important. I just turned 40 and I appreciate a nice ride more than I did than when I was 20 and landscaping full time, being thrashed around on a one wheel sulky behind a JD commercial walk-behind mower. Actually I loved those and yup, they had Kawasaki motors that were used and abused and never missed a beat.
The dealer that sells both of them is 55 miles from my home I called him on the phone just to check pricing.

When I was at local Simplicity dealer last Tuesday he did not have a model with 4 wheel suspension but he had a smaller machine with suspension on the front.

I tried to make it move but when I pushed down with all of my 300 lbs all that happened was I bent the piece that I pushed on but the shocks never moved.

He said he would have the model that I wanted by the middle of the week I ask him to call me when he got it in but have not heard from him.

It has been a week since I was their so I may call him tomorrow and find out if he forgot to call me or if the mower didn't come in yet.

If the suspension don't work well then I will buy the Deere it has a bigger and better deck ( more capacity } also the Deere has the Kawasaki engine and I would much prefer it over the B&S.

Another thing is warranty is 2 years on Simplicity and 4 years on the Deere.
If the shocks on the bigger machine works like the smaller one it will be a deal breaker.


#20

C

Carl in CT

Yup, I have to agree with you, certainly can't go wrong with the Kawasaki and there's no point of a suspension that doesn't move. I wonder if the suspension moves with the weight of the rider and the machine on it while moving over rough ground. Still, I would have thought 300 lbs would have at least made it budge. As much as I like the Simplicity tractors and still think the ones with the Vanguards are killer machines JD is sounding like the better ZTR unless that other Simplicity model has a better suspension but it's not sounding promissing. Keep us posted, I will be curious how you make out.


#21

W

Waterr

2011 Z445

Beware, this morning i called John Deere in the USA and all 2011 Z445 come with a 27HP John Deere Cyclonic Engine (Briggs & Stratton ELS).

Same engine for USA/Canada.

Yesterday, i visited a John Deere dealer in Canada and the engine on the 2011 Z445 was the 27HP John Deere Cyclonic Engine.

Kawasaki is no more available this year.

The Z445 also come with the ZT2800 transmission.


#22

B

Black Bart

Re: 2011 Z445

Beware, this morning i called John Deere in the USA and all 2011 Z445 come with a 27HP John Deere Cyclonic Engine (Briggs & Stratton ELS).

Same engine for USA/Canada.

Yesterday, i visited a John Deere dealer in Canada and the engine on the 2011 Z445 was the 27HP John Deere Cyclonic Engine.

Kawasaki is no more available this year.

The Z445 also come with the ZT2800 transmission.
After reading your post today I called the dealer that had offered me a Z445 with the Kawasaki engine and told him about your post.

He said that was true but since I had said I was interested in the Kawasaki he quoted me a priced for one that they still had that was built early 2011.

When these are gone that will be the last of the Kaw engines in a JD

I talked to another dealer today and he said XMark was not going to offer the kaw engine either.

I would guess the B&S that will be offered in place of the Kaw engine cost the manufacture less $$$$$

It is beginning to look like JD is focused on competing with the lower priced mowers even at the expense of lowering quality.

With all the junk being imported from China we are accustom to buying this cheap stuff and no longer willing to pay for quality


#23

W

Waterr

Z445


If you can get one with a kawa engine, jump on it !

From my side, maybe i will buy the Z445 with the all new 27HP John Deere Cyclonic Engine.

It come with a warranty of 4 years or 300 hours.

The price is 4600$CAD

How much it costs you at your JD dealer in USA ?



#24

twall

twall

Well, I say good riddance to Kaw. Unlike Honda, they make great motorcycles, but TERRIBLE equipment engines! (Honda does well both ways)

I have 2 JD's with Kaw engines, and I would rather have an OHV B&S any day of the week. Carburetors don't last forever. Unlike B&S, who use the same components for decades, Kaw seems to think it wise to change the frickin thing every year - and SORRY! Last year's parts are obsolete. Then comes the torturous ritual of FIXING the miserable things, even if you CAN get the parts........you can get a new carb - but hold your breath (and your wallet)!

You're better off, especially if Kaw is gone, to just go with what you can get parts for, rather than insisting on Japanese stuff. Your parts search 10 years from now will thank you.


#25

B

Black Bart

Re: Z445


If you can get one with a kawa engine, jump on it !

From my side, maybe i will buy the Z445 with the all new 27HP John Deere Cyclonic Engine.

It come with a warranty of 4 years or 300 hours.

The price is 4600$CAD

How much it costs you at your JD dealer in USA ?


Z445 with 54" deck $4349 is the best price I have found.

Twall I understand your point about change but nothing ever advances or gets better without change.

If the whole world had your view we would still be driving model T Fords


#26

twall

twall

Re: Z445

Z445 with 54" deck $4349 is the best price I have found.

Twall I understand your point about change but nothing ever advances or gets better without change.

If the whole world had your view we would still be driving model T Fords

Yes, but YEARLY change? That GUARANTEES that you'll never get parts - making something with a simple carb problem a POS........

Mechanically, their tolerances are typically great Japanese style awesome. But the carbs - I've seen more JD's for dirt just because the only way to fix it is get lucky on ebay, or get a new engine........


#27

B

Black Bart

Re: Z445

Yes, but YEARLY change? That GUARANTEES that you'll never get parts - making something with a simple carb problem a POS........

Mechanically, their tolerances are typically great Japanese style awesome. But the carbs - I've seen more JD's for dirt just because the only way to fix it is get lucky on ebay, or get a new engine........
Sounds like poor maintainance to me.

My 180 is 25 years old never a problem with anything on it but I have a fuel filter and change it every few years.
Also I use carb cleaner a couple times per year.

Same for my Kubota powered Grasshopper 20 years without a problem.

Some JD have fuel injection I would much rather have that but putting a carb on is a lot cheaper to build so the antiquated carb is still in use.

In the future the EPA will force all of them to go to fuel injection.


#28

twall

twall

Well MORE THAN THEIR SHARE, B&S problems stem from poor maintainence, and/or abuse, as well.....but that isn't the point.

SHOULD YOU NEED PARTS, for whatever reason, you won't be able to get them. That is the truth. IF YOU GET A DEAL, due to whatever lead to a carb problem, figure in an engine replacement in the 'deal' to see if it's still worth it. Because a new carb will cost you enough to consider a new B&S to a new Kaw carb on a used engine......just my :2cents:

Glad you had such good luck.


#29

B

Black Bart

Talking about problems today when I was talking to a big power equipment dealer I ask him what was the problem they saw the most.
This is a really big dealer in a major city and they sell a lot of mowers.

He said blown head gasket's on Kohler's was the #1 engine problem.


#30

twall

twall

Talking about problems today when I was talking to a big power equipment dealer I ask him what was the problem they saw the most.
This is a really big dealer in a major city and they sell a lot of mowers.

He said blown head gasket's on Kohler's was the #1 engine problem.

I'm curious - was it just a 'crap gasket' kinda problem? Poor design? Overheating? Poor machining?I said in another thread that Kohler seemed to be resting on their laurels, and making junkier and junkier engines through the years........


#31

B

Black Bart

I'm curious - was it just a 'crap gasket' kinda problem? Poor design? Overheating? Poor machining?I said in another thread that Kohler seemed to be resting on their laurels, and making junkier and junkier engines through the years........
I don't know all he said was they blow head gasket's

I always warm my engine up before putting them to work but I notice all my neighbors just start them and start mowing.

Some people would break a piece of railroad iron.


#32

twall

twall

Some people would break a piece of railroad iron.

Ain't THAT the absolute truth?

Just wondered if my perception of Kohler was right, or if I was just pining for the old cast-iron days. Didn't Kohler have a problem a few years back, with the bearings frying, and throwing rods on low-hour engines?


#33

W

Waterr

2011 Z445


@twall:


What worth the new engine (27HP John Deere Cyclonic Engine - Briggs & Stratton ELS) on the new 2011 JD Z445 ?

Good or bad ?



#34

twall

twall

Re: 2011 Z445


@twall:


What worth the new engine (27HP John Deere Cyclonic Engine - Briggs & Stratton ELS) on the new 2011 JD Z445 ?

Good or bad ?


Depends on if JD keeps it - if they keep it in their lineup for a good 5 or 10 years - then I'd say you got a winner as far as being able to fix it. If JD abandons B&S and goes even cheaper in 3 or 4 years, then I'm not sure - it would depend on how much of this engine is JD-only.

ANY engine you can't get parts for is a bad engine, IMHO.....it's just when will it break? Yes, a Kaw will break a lot later than a B&S will - but, if you can't get parts, and the B&S guy can get parts over and over for his engine, and all you can get is (maybe) filters?

You tell me which one is better. I've been through the Kaw parts hell, and I can tell you I didn't say "hell" without meaning it. I still have a RX75 I can't get running for carb issues.........and I cannot get a rebuild kit, even if I sold my soul to the Devil himself. :frown: I can get a new carb....to the tune of $200.........and that is for an engine I have no clue how many hours are on it, or how it was maintained......


#35

BKBrown

BKBrown

Just HAD to comment on the "some people could break a piece of railroad iron"
I have a neighbor who is well enough off to have a "handyman" He said that "Robert could break an anvil" He has a LARGE JD 4wd Farm Tractor (don't know the model) and Robert bent one of the lift arms on the FEL so badly it couldn't be fixed and had to be replaced. :eek:


#36

C

Carl in CT

Well, I'd say your choice comes down to a simple test drive of each and a gut feel for which one you like better. Both are good machines overall but both have drawbacks, just like everything else. I still have to think that the Simplicity's suspension has got to do something for it but it might not move much until you get it moving along and the full weight of the machine and rider come into play rather than just pushing on it in the showroom. My pickup's suspension doesn't move much until I put a little weight in it and drive it down a bumpy back road. So if you test drive the Simplicity find some bumps and hit them good and see what happens.

twall, thanks for the enlightenment on the Kawasaki "parts hell". I always rank Kawasaki as one of the best but I have never had to fix one. Most of my experience with them was before all of the ethanol in the gas that kills carbs. I still think Kawasaki makes one heck of a good motor for overall quality but your point is well taken about factoring in long term cost of ownership (and level of frustration/blood pressure). Change is good but yearly change is planned obsolescence and a profit grab by Kawasaki.

I read and responded to your comments about Kohler in that other thread and could not agree more. They are certainly not what they used to be unfortunately for folks like me who got royally burned by them. Yes I bash Kohler every chance I get because they cost me a lot of money and had a "too bad, screw you" attitude so they deserve every ounce of mud I can sling at them.

As far as breaking stuff, my buddy is famous for it and I think he is strangely proud of it. He likes to say, "If at first you don't succeed, force it". He cracks me up but I don't let him use my stuff.


#37

B

Black Bart

Just HAD to comment on the "some people could break a piece of railroad iron"
I have a neighbor who is well enough off to have a "handyman" He said that "Robert could break an anvil" He has a LARGE JD 4wd Farm Tractor (don't know the model) and Robert bent one of the lift arms on the FEL so badly it couldn't be fixed and had to be replaced. :eek:
When it comes to operating machinery some people don't have a clue.

I have a neighbor that leaves his car sit out because his garage is full of stuff and when he starts it on a zero morning he revs it up to about 5000rpm drops it down to idle than guns it again.:eek:

After a minute of that he takes off down the road like he was in a drag race.
Strange thing is he has had to replace the engine in both his car and his pickup.

I wonder why :biggrin:


#38

B

Black Bart

I had a big game changer last night, I was talking to a friend that works where they sell Bad Boy mowers and he said if I want one of those he can buy it for me at employee discount and that would be $750 to $1500 dollars depending on what model I bought.:eek: :thumbsup:

I see this as a big game changer in what I should buy. :licking::smile:


#39

BKBrown

BKBrown

I saw one the other day and have seen their "show" on RFDTV They seem to be full of features that make them easy to work on if they need work and they are built HEAVY DUTY !:biggrin: :thumbsup:

I'd go with it if you can get that kind of discount ! :thumbsup:


#40

B

Black Bart

I was looking on their web site and looks like they offer B&S or Kohler on 50" deck but only Kohler on the 60" deck.
I was thinking about getting a 60" but not crazy about the Kohler.


#41

C

Carl in CT

Wow, that's some serious discounts you are looking at. I think that would definitely turn my head their way to at least go check one out in person.

I took a quick look at their website and the ZT offers either the Kohler Courage or the Briggs Pro motor. The Kohler Courage is not even on par with the Command which is not good so I would run fast from that option. The Briggs Pro might be great, might not be great, I just don't know much about them. Now, the ZT Commercial is a $1,000 more but they offer it with the Briggs Vanguard on all 3 deck choices. That is a true commercial motor on what appears to be a commercial build ZTR with bigger tires, heavier duty hydo tranny, etc. If you can get at least $750 discount and you like the Bad Boy I'd definitely pony up the extra to get the Commercial ZT with the Vanguard motor and whichever deck you want. Is the dealer near you and seem like a good outfit that will work with you if you ever need anything after the purchase?

BTW, did you ever get a chance to test drive that Simplicity on some bumpy ground and see if the suspension is worth anything?


#42

B

Black Bart

Wow, that's some serious discounts you are looking at. I think that would definitely turn my head their way to at least go check one out in person.

I took a quick look at their website and the ZT offers either the Kohler Courage or the Briggs Pro motor. The Kohler Courage is not even on par with the Command which is not good so I would run fast from that option. The Briggs Pro might be great, might not be great, I just don't know much about them. Now, the ZT Commercial is a $1,000 more but they offer it with the Briggs Vanguard on all 3 deck choices. That is a true commercial motor on what appears to be a commercial build ZTR with bigger tires, heavier duty hydo tranny, etc. If you can get at least $750 discount and you like the Bad Boy I'd definitely pony up the extra to get the Commercial ZT with the Vanguard motor and whichever deck you want. Is the dealer near you and seem like a good outfit that will work with you if you ever need anything after the purchase?

BTW, did you ever get a chance to test drive that Simplicity on some bumpy ground and see if the suspension is worth anything?[/QUOTE]NO I did not get to check them out Simplicity halted production for about 3 weeks so he did not get them.

The price of the Bad Boy is much more than what is listed on their web site.
Dealer mark up set up charge and state and local Taxes adds another 500 bucks or more.


#43

BKBrown

BKBrown

On RFDTV the Bad Boy Owners/Reps said there should be no set up - dealer just puts gas in and it is ready to go. ????? I'd mention that and ask why there is a "set up charge". Small mark up - maybe. I might also ask that question on the Bad Boy web site !!!!
[/QUOTE] The price of the Bad Boy is much more than what is listed on their web site.
Dealer mark up set up charge and state and local Taxes adds another 500 bucks or more.[/QUOTE]


#44

B

Black Bart

On RFDTV the Bad Boy Owners/Reps said there should be no set up - dealer just puts gas in and it is ready to go. ????? I'd mention that and ask why there is a "set up charge". Small mark up - maybe. I might also ask that question on the Bad Boy web site !!!!
The price of the Bad Boy is much more than what is listed on their web site.
Dealer mark up set up charge and state and local Taxes adds another 500 bucks or more.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]Thanks the local TSC is marking them up but it states on the Bad Boy web site that their posted price may be higher at some dealers.

Bad Boy site has this next to the price. Subject to change. Destination and setup charges not included.


#45

BKBrown

BKBrown

Do what you like, but I would still ask them what was included in the set up charge since they are supposed to be "ready to go" from the factory (except for gas).
I hate dealers (car, truck, or tractor) charging for something they don't do.

Let us know what you decide. :thumbsup:


#46

W

Waterr

JD

@Black Bart: I finally ordered JD Z445 + mulch kit.


#47

C

Carl in CT

Re: JD

@Black Bart: I finally ordered JD Z445 + mulch kit.

Congrats Waterr, enjoy your new machine! Let us all know how you like it and pics are always appreciated.


#48

B

Black Bart

Re: JD

@Black Bart: I finally ordered JD Z445 + mulch kit.
Congratulations on the new mower I'm sure you will like it.
Report back and let us know what you think about the mulching kit.
My local JD dealer told be it worked ok as long as I mowed every 2 days but you must not cut more than an inch at a time.

I do not cut that often I cut more like 2 inches when I mow.


#49

B

Black Bart

I went to town today to look at the Bad Boy mowers and they are built like a tank.
It is much heavier built than Simplicity or the Ztrack JD but I would sooner have a sister in a whore house than have to mow with one.

This mower is not for an old man the front deck is real short and while it is hard to get up on it getting off of it is a nightmare.
I got my clothes caught in the levers while trying to get off no room to stand.

The lean back on the seat practically lays you down if you lean back in the seat.
While leaning back in the seat I could just barley reach the levers but in order to make it go forward I had to lean over and mowing for a couple hours leaning over with a bad back just ain't going to happen.

I have not set on the Simplicity yet still waiting on them to come in so don't know how they will sit but have got on and off of the Z445 and not only was it comfortable to sit on it but was no problem getting off of it.

It is a dam shame that Bad Boy spent so much time designing a sturdy built mower but totally forgot about ergonomics.

Probably would not be all that bad for a young person but I sure won't be buying one not even with the big discount that I was going to get.
Sure was a big disappointment when I first looked at it and knowing what the price was I thought I was going home with it but that all changed when I got on it and sit down.


#50

W

Waterr

Re: JD

My local JD dealer told be it worked ok as long as I mowed every 2 days but you must not cut more than an inch at a time.

I'm planning to mow 1-2 time per week.

If the mulch kit does not work correctly, i will exchange it for the bagger.


John Deere Promise :smile:

http://www.deere.com/en_US/homeowners/services_support/john_deere_promise.html


#51

C

Carl in CT

Sure was a big disappointment when I first looked at it and knowing what the price was I thought I was going home with it but that all changed when I got on it and sit down.

Wow, that stinks, that is a big disappointment. Well, hopefully the Simplicity will come in soon so you can try it. If it doesn't or if it does but you don't like it I don't think you can go wrong with the Deere.


#52

B

Black Bart

Wow, that stinks, that is a big disappointment. Well, hopefully the Simplicity will come in soon so you can try it. If it doesn't or if it does but you don't like it I don't think you can go wrong with the Deere.
Well I'm in no hurry so I will wait and see what the Simplicity is like.

JD has a rebate that will end the last of May but if that happens I will just wait till fall and see if they have a deal then.

I have plenty of mowers so I don't have to have a new one.:laughing:
I have 2 guy's that are both hot to buy my JD 430 diesel, Not sure if I want to sell it the 430 is a real work horse


#53

B

Black Bart

After a month my local dealer still don't have a Simplicity champion but yesterday I was in a large city near where I live and I stopped at a Simplicity dealer and he had a Champion.

The suspension on it was waaaaay too stiff to be of any real usefulness.
I'm not saying that if you hit a big hole it would not move but if I had a hole that big I would fill it with some dirt.

Bottom line is I think the dealer that sells several brands including Simplicity had it right when he told me Simplicity had a nice Gimmick with their suspension.

They have just used a spring and shock from a motorcycle rather than designing one for their mower.
It has the exact same type of adjustment as a motorcycle and all are set on the softest setting.

All dealers will tell you it is adjustable but all of them come set on the softest setting and that is waaay too stiff.

Since they want more money for the Orange paint than what I can buy Green and Yellow I think the Simplicity is a no go.


#54

Jetblast

Jetblast

You might want to try another forum or do some Google searches to get a wider variety of input from Ferris or Simplicity owners. Their suspension is anything but a gimmick. My yard is kind of bumpy so if I hadn't needed front wheel steering, I wouldn't have considered anything but a full suspension ZTR. Not everybody loves them, but I did a lot of research on these and found that most people who own them wonder how people use anything else. No flex fork or suspension seat can compare to that ride quality.

If you're too light for the stock springs even with minimum preload, you should be able to install slightly softer springs.


#55

B

Black Bart

You might want to try another forum or do some Google searches to get a wider variety of input from Ferris or Simplicity owners. Their suspension is anything but a gimmick. My yard is kind of bumpy so if I hadn't needed front wheel steering, I wouldn't have considered anything but a full suspension ZTR. Not everybody loves them, but I did a lot of research on these and found that most people who own them wonder how people use anything else. No flex fork or suspension seat can compare to that ride quality.

If you're too light for the stock springs even with minimum preload, you should be able to install slightly softer springs.
Well if my 304 lbs. won't budge it how much would it take.

Yes I could re-engineer the whole thing but why should I have to do that the engineers should have got It right.

To pay $4799.00 for a mower then start rebuilding it to make it work sucks.


#56

Jetblast

Jetblast

If you weight 304# you might find it a bit soft, but that can be fixed by adjusting in a little more preload to the springs. On the showroom floor the mower won't bounce up and down like a car, because compared to a car it's very light so you're pushing against the springs with little vehicle weight to help. Out in the field however, at speed, you'd find the suspension well compliant.

It sounds like you've made your mind up. No problem. I'm sure you'll do fine with whatever you buy, but just in case someone else comes along through a Google search I thought they should get a rebuttal to the idea of full ZTR suspension being a gimmick. I drove a Simplicity Champion on my dealer's property for quite a awhile before I eliminated it due to my slopes, but that was a tough thing to do because the suspension worked beautifully and the ride was superb. Although my present suspension seat works pretty well, I would have enjoyed mowing far more on that thing or on a Ferris. If I could own one, I would.


#57

B

Black Bart

The use of the word Gimmick is not mine if you actually read what I posted you will see it was a Simplicity dealer that labeled it a Gimmick but I do agree with him.

Your comment about the mower is too light and not like a car is wrong a suspension should be designed for the load it will be carrying.

I pointed out in early post that at speed if you hit a deep hole it would move but if I had a hole in my lawn that big I would fill it so the suspension is virtually useless to me.

You see it as a asset so we have a difference of opinion and that is what makes a horse race


#58

W

widowmaker2011

Re: 2011 Z445

After reading your post today I called the dealer that had offered me a Z445 with the Kawasaki engine and told him about your post.

He said that was true but since I had said I was interested in the Kawasaki he quoted me a priced for one that they still had that was built early 2011.

When these are gone that will be the last of the Kaw engines in a JD

I talked to another dealer today and he said XMark was not going to offer the kaw engine either.

I would guess the B&S that will be offered in place of the Kaw engine cost the manufacture less $$$$$

It is beginning to look like JD is focused on competing with the lower priced mowers even at the expense of lowering quality.

With all the junk being imported from China we are accustom to buying this cheap stuff and no longer willing to pay for quality


The Briggs is costing John Deere MORE than the comparable Kawi. Its not cost. The Kawi would not meet 2011-12 Emission standards and the Briggs already does.


#59

B

Black Bart

After weeks of shopping for a new mower I bought one yesterday.
I bought a new JD Z445 with 54" deck.

This will work better in my lawn than the Grasshopper with the 72" deck
The GH was 12 feet long and just too big when in small spaces.

I know that in a few years I may not be able to get on a mower and this was part of my decision to buy the Deere.
I don't know about the rest of the country but around here it is much easier to sell a JD and it will bring more money than anything else so I know when the time comes I can sell it real quick at a good return on my investment.

We have had constant rain for weeks and my trailer is in tool shed and I don't want to drive across the grass until it drys so I told them to hold it till middle of next week then I will go get it.

I bought from a dealer about 50 miles from my home saved a bunch of money but I told them I would come get it myself.


#60

R

robert

BlackBart, my Exmark with a Brigss ELS did not even get me 4 hours before the engine needed warranty repair AND the ZT 2800 drives are problematic also-50% of the time the growl has to be heard to be believed-still waiting to hear if anyone is going to taken the unit back for me. As for the cut quality, seems the small deck has a well documented 'history': short grass is ok, taller is a nightmare.

BUT-while the ELS is nothing more than an Intek the 'Professional' is allegedly different and I will be very interested in hearing your experiences. From a design standpoint there is alot to like, the oil cooler AND Briggs' version of a remote style air filter 'seem' to indicate that perhaps this model is different and I don't think that JD would gamble their rep again with Briggs...

As for my bad luck with the ZT2800, as far as I am able to determine mine is the only one with noise issues.

I did look long and hard at the model you bought and had they offered it in a sub 48" deck size there would be one sitting in the shed now-and I suspect that it would not have more trailer time than mowing time. Deere does NOT offer their 30 day satisfaction protection on the zt, and this I find interesting.


#61

K

KennyV

...
As for my bad luck with the ZT2800, as far as I am able to determine mine is the only one with noise issues.

... Deere does NOT offer their 30 day satisfaction protection on the zt, and this I find interesting.

There are more than a few complaints about the whine... There are not "yet" very many failures... :smile:KennyV


#62

L

Lawnpro1969

I have used nothing but John Deere for 24 years. I would say get the John Deere I have never had any trouble with the John Deere

Sent from my iPad using LMF


#63

Jetblast

Jetblast

There are more than a few complaints about the whine... There are not "yet" very many failures... :smile:KennyV

The ZT-2800 has been used for five years or more by every major ZTR manufacturer, with thousands of installations totaling countless thousands of service hours. Due to the unitized design they are a little more prone to transient micro-cavitations (whine) than separate pump and wheel motors, so there are one or two mentions of this on the web, but I can find no evidence to support the idea that they're failure prone.

You've mentioned more than once that you think they're not desirable components. What's your basis for saying that?


#64

K

KennyV

... they are a little more prone to transient micro-cavitations (whine) than separate pump and wheel motors, so there are one or two mentions of this on the web, but I can find no evidence to support the idea that they're failure prone.

You've mentioned more than once that you think they're not desirable components. What's your basis for saying that?

There are a lot of the big guys using them... you are right. & they do cut weight and bulk, they are easier to install...
I myself would prefer the component system rather than the integral ... But the trend is definitely toward the latter...
There may be sparse mention on the web about the wine... in actual use, those that have been using pump & motor systems definitely notice, and mention it... I do not know that they will in fact fail, that's why I added, "There are not "yet" very many failures..."... I have not had good experience with machinery that has that level of audible complaint...
For all that are showing up, I do hope they develop a good track record... For the time,if given the choice, I will look for the separate system... :smile:KennyV


#65

Jetblast

Jetblast

There are a lot of the big guys using them... you are right. & they do cut weight and bulk, they are easier to install...
I myself would prefer the component system rather than the integral ... But the trend is definitely toward the latter...
There may be sparse mention on the web about the wine... in actual use, those that have been using pump & motor systems definitely notice, and mention it... I do not know that they will in fact fail, that's why I added, "There are not "yet" very many failures..."... I have not had good experience with machinery that has that level of audible complaint...
For all that are showing up, I do hope they develop a good track record... For the time,if given the choice, I will look for the separate system... :smile:KennyV

Thanks for your explaining your reasoning. Getting a choice is the gotcha here as more and more consumer and light commercial machines go this route. For someone who has two or three acres, a $10K plus commercial machine is nowhere near the apogee of the cost/performance curve, so this is what we're offered. That said, from the data I'm seeing and the performance I'm experiencing so far from the ZT-3100s on my mower, it appears that things are going much better for these newer serviceable integrated transaxles than they did for the early sealed EZTs. They may whine at times, but I have far better places to put the thousands of dollars I saved by choosing this level of mower for my 2.5 acres. Seeing that your property is "11-20" acres, your position is understandable for the different situation.


#66

D

delta

i have owned both brands and hands down the simplicity whops jd. just the cut of the simplicity speaks for itself!:thumbsup: i went down that road and wish someone would have told me because u never get lost time or money back, so good luck!!!! thx delta


#67

L

Lawnpro1969

I still say the John Deere is the better choice. The John Deere service is great you can get parts next day if needed.I'm not sure if the other companies offer that. I have had a lot of good luck with the Kawasaki engines never had any luck with the Briggs engine.the John Deere will be worth more later if you sell it or trade it in

Sent from my iPad using LMF


#68

B

benski

I've had good luck with the Simplicity equipment I've had.


#69

B

Black Bart

The dealer where I bought mine from said that the trend is toward the gear drive unit even on the high $$$$$$$$ commercial machines.
The pump & motor system are being used less and will be rare in the future.

I'm not hard on equipment I bought a new 430 JD in 1985 not put a wrench to it to this day.
Bought a new JD 180 in 1986 not done anything other than change oil on it so far.

If the new ZTR is half that good I will be dead and buried before it fails

With a bad back trimming is really hard to do with a hand mower and with this smaller ZTR I will be able to get much more of those small hard to get too places and reduce the amount of hand work and that is why I want this instead of using my tractor.


#70

R

robert

I am not saying the ZT2800's on my Exmark whine, they scream AND the darn thing doesn't even budge. Today I discovered that when it does this if I pull back into reverse, then push forward the mower will move with no unusual noise.

Is the ZT3100 significantly different?


#71

Jetblast

Jetblast

I am not saying the ZT2800's on my Exmark whine, they scream AND the darn thing doesn't even budge. Today I discovered that when it does this if I pull back into reverse, then push forward the mower will move with no unusual noise.

Is the ZT3100 significantly different?

Is this happening at standard mowing engine RPM (full throttle?) Is your hydro reservoir filled with oil to the line near the bottom of the tank? If "yes" to both, screaming hydros would be a sign that the train has seriously gone off the rails somewhere. Nothing normal about that. What did your dealer say about it?

The ZT-3100 has stronger and longer lasting steel cut gears; charge pumps for quicker response, more weight capacity, faster speed; and relief valves to protect the system if overloaded or overheated. Years ago the ZT-3100 was sold by Hydrogear to manufacturers as a heavy-duty version of the ZT-2800, but eventually it got its own name.


#72

R

robert

jet, the problem is intermittent but I did manage to get the noise on tape.... dealer said that they couldn't do anything unless they heard the sound.

I think I would tell everyone thinking about a new mower to buy only one that had the ZT 3100 as a minimum, wonder if the charge pumps makes the units quieter?-of course I would also advise everyone not to buy Briggs......:thumbdown:


#73

Jetblast

Jetblast

jet, the problem is intermittent but I did manage to get the noise on tape.... dealer said that they couldn't do anything unless they heard the sound.

I think I would tell everyone thinking about a new mower to buy only one that had the ZT 3100 as a minimum, wonder if the charge pumps makes the units quieter?-of course I would also advise everyone not to buy Briggs......:thumbdown:

The charge pump adds head pressure to the main pump inlet so that should help, but I did test out a mower with ZT-2800s before I bought mine and there was no excessive hydro screaming. The only big difference I noticed was that the ZT-2800s didn't require as light a touch on the controls to prevent getting my neck snapped backward.

I hope you'll let us know how it works out.


#74

B

Black Bart

jet, the problem is intermittent but I did manage to get the noise on tape.... dealer said that they couldn't do anything unless they heard the sound.

I think I would tell everyone thinking about a new mower to buy only one that had the ZT 3100 as a minimum, wonder if the charge pumps makes the units quieter?-of course I would also advise everyone not to buy Briggs......:thumbdown:
Well IMO you should not con-dim all ZT 2800 units just because you have a defective one.

I just bought a new JD ZTR with the 2800 unit in it and not only does it not whine I can not hear
ANY NOISE from it.

My neighbor has a Craftsman tractor with I think a 48" deck on it and that deck is the loudest thing I ever heard.

When he mows everyone in the neighborhood knows it, God that thing is loud.


#75

R

robert

Black Bart, if the zt2800 does have powdered metal gears as reported this would be a very good reason to opt for the 3100.
Then again even pm gears probably would outlast 3 homeowners.....


#76

B

Black Bart

Black Bart, if the zt2800 does have powdered metal gears as reported this would be a very good reason to opt for the 3100.
Then again even pm gears probably would outlast 3 homeowners.....
Do you know for a fact that it has PM gears or is this more internet talk.

You know what they say about internet advice it is worth what you paid for it.

Some people could break an anvil but I'm not hard on equipment so Im not concerned about it.
If this unit is so bad why does all the major manufactures use it.

My Grasshopper has twin pumps and motors and while it has been durable it howl's bad but my JD with the 2800 is silent and also much more responsive.

The ZTR is much better than my Grasshopper for my lawn the GH is 12 feet long and with a 72 inch deck it really takes a lot of room to turn the thing around.

While I only have a 54 inch deck I can mow my lawn faster and have far less trimming to do with the ZTR than with the GH.

IMO the ZTR is light years ahead of the old tractors we used in years gone by, I love mine. :thumbsup:


#77

R

robert

When the comment about the powdered metal gears was read I did go to the HydroGear website and looked up the literatuare on both the 2800 and 3100, the 3100 was listed as having steel cut gears and the 2800 was not, so I sent out an email to the Company and asked-I'll post what I learn as soon as I learn it.

I have not owned a zt with pumps/motors so I will cede to your experience, I had understood that the intergral units were 'noisy' compared to the individual components but this is not what you observed with your Grasshopper and I find this interesting. Of course the lack of hoses and fittings is a big plus in my mind.

As I mentioned previously had JD offered a deck smaller than 48" I would have one in my shed as I type, I liked what I saw when I looked at them; and the price was certainly not any more than what I paid for the Exmark, $3800 or so. As you can perhaps tell I am not a Briggs person and I was very concerned when I saw that Deere had left Kawasaki for BS BUT I also was impressed when I saw the way the Briggs was set up for Deere and even more put at ease when I realized that the 'Professional' series engine is , at least in the literature, put in a different model class the the 'ELS' series which I have (and dislike) in the Exmark.

My dislike for BS is based on experience rather than opinion, the last two engines I have had by Briggs did not give satisfactory performance or service life-the Vanguard in the Simplicity did not give even 350 hours (twice yearly synthetic oil changes with twice yearly air filter changes) and an Intek on our DR vacuum is smoking badly at not even 70 hours-same maintainence schedule.

Contrast this to the four GX Honda's (one of which is about 30 years old and still start on the first pull after winter storage) and a couple of Robin's which have been 1000% reliable and the difference between Briggs and others is apparent.

BUT again, the 'Professional' Briggs -seems- to be different and even I would have taken another (but final) chance... and, there are many thousands of Briggs owners who claim to have had no issues.

I think you made a good choice and I will be interested in reading your comments on performance in the future-do you know if Deere offers their satisfaction warranty for the ZT you bought?


#78

C

Carl in CT

My dislike for BS is based on experience rather than opinion, the last two engines I have had by Briggs did not give satisfactory performance or service life-the Vanguard in the Simplicity did not give even 350 hours (twice yearly synthetic oil changes with twice yearly air filter changes) and an Intek on our DR vacuum is smoking badly at not even 70 hours-same maintainence schedule.

Contrast this to the four GX Honda's (one of which is about 30 years old and still start on the first pull after winter storage) and a couple of Robin's which have been 1000% reliable and the difference between Briggs and others is apparent.

BUT again, the 'Professional' Briggs -seems- to be different and even I would have taken another (but final) chance... and, there are many thousands of Briggs owners who claim to have had no issues.

The more I read and see the more it's apparent that no engine manufacturer is without duds, not even Honda or Kawasaki. I have bad-mouthed Kohler because I have been burned by two different Kohler Command engines but other people swear by them. I have seen Kawasakis be abused and never quit but other Kawasakis have had issues with plastic internal gears breaking. I have seen Hondas blow up and Briggs go forever. I guess you do the research, make the most educated choice you can and pray yours holds together, with proper maintenance of course.

I went with a Simplicity with Briggs Vanguard over a JD with Kawasdaki. I really like the Simplicty based on price, the rest of tractor itself being more heavily built and the Vanguard being a 100% Japanese motor (made by Diahatsu) like the Kawasaki, unlike all other Briggs made in USA or China. I also have read that Kawasaki has gone to several levels of motor too so it's no longer automatic that Kawasaki = commercial grade and the JD dealer would not or could not answer my questions regarding that.

I'm curious what went wrong with your Simplicity's Vanguard as it sounds like you maintained it very well.


#79

B

Black Bart

The more I read and see the more it's apparent that no engine manufacturer is without duds, not even Honda or Kawasaki. I have bad-mouthed Kohler because I have been burned by two different Kohler Command engines but other people swear by them. I have seen Kawasakis be abused and never quit but other Kawasakis have had issues with plastic internal gears breaking. I have seen Hondas blow up and Briggs go forever. I guess you do the research, make the most educated choice you can and pray yours holds together, with proper maintenance of course.

I went with a Simplicity with Briggs Vanguard over a JD with Kawasdaki. I really like the Simplicty based on price, the rest of tractor itself being more heavily built and the Vanguard being a 100% Japanese motor (made by Diahatsu) like the Kawasaki, unlike all other Briggs made in USA or China. I also have read that Kawasaki has gone to several levels of motor too so it's no longer automatic that Kawasaki = commercial grade and the JD dealer would not or could not answer my questions regarding that.

I'm curious what went wrong with your Simplicity's Vanguard as it sounds like you maintained it very well.

Carl I agree with you I read about the problems but I have not experienced them, my 1986 JD 180 has a 17hp single cylinder Kawasaki and it has not been touched.

Nothing but oil changes.

Seems like they all have shortcomings.
The Simplicity that I looked at had the grease sirks under the deck and to clean the geardrive required removing covers that are bolted down on all of them but the JD.
The JD you raise the seat and the plate that it is bolted to hinges and exposes the whole area for cleaning and service.
The plate where you put your feet swings up and you can clean the deck and the sirks are on the top fast and easy to grease the spindle's.

I had some wood chips that was in the grass and when I mowed over it with my Grasshopper it cut the grass and left the wood chips but when I mowed with the new JD it sucked up those wood chips.

Proves it has waaaaay more lift than the GH has
Only negative so far is the same problem that all of them have, I sit on JD Bad Boy Toro X-Mark Simplicity all of them lean you back if you lean back in the seat.
I don't like to lay down while mowing the seat needs the back more vertical.


#80

Jetblast

Jetblast

Only negative so far is the same problem that all of them have, I sit on JD Bad Boy Toro X-Mark Simplicity all of them lean you back if you lean back in the seat.
I don't like to lay down while mowing the seat needs the back more vertical.

That does seem to be the trend, doesn't it. I fixed that on mine by adding 3/4" spacers (just some extra large nuts) between the two rear seat mounting holes and the seat rails they mount on. I had enough extra thread on the bolts to where I didn't need to buy longer ones. Cheap and easy.


#81

B

Black Bart

That does seem to be the trend, doesn't it. I fixed that on mine by adding 3/4" spacers (just some extra large nuts) between the two rear seat mounting holes and the seat rails they mount on. I had enough extra thread on the bolts to where I didn't need to buy longer ones. Cheap and easy.
On mine the seat back is at an angle so if I move it I will need to drill new holes.

I found a nice seat but not sure if I want to spend that much since I only mow about 30 minutes a week.

LINK

Michigan Seat Highback Suspension Seat, Model# V-5300 | Suspension Seats | Northern Tool + Equipment

This looks like a nice seat has back angle adjust plus Lumbar adjust.


#82

Jetblast

Jetblast

On mine the seat back is at an angle so if I move it I will need to drill new holes.

I found a nice seat but not sure if I want to spend that much since I only mow about 30 minutes a week.

LINK

Michigan Seat Highback Suspension Seat, Model# V-5300 | Suspension Seats | Northern Tool + Equipment

This looks like a nice seat has back angle adjust plus Lumbar adjust.

I had one of those on my "to buy" list but it turned out I didn't need it, at least not for now. That is a killer seat for sure. Great reviews too.


#83

B

Black Bart

I had one of those on my "to buy" list but it turned out I didn't need it, at least not for now. That is a killer seat for sure. Great reviews too.
Actually that is a good price other places with similar seat is a 100 more.

No longer than I mow I can get by with the seat that I have but don't be surprised if I buy it. :biggrin:


#84

B

Black Bart

[QUOTE=robert;25672]When the comment about the powdered metal gears was read I did go to the HydroGear website and looked up the literatuare on both the 2800 and 3100, the 3100 was listed as having steel cut gears and the 2800 was not, so I sent out an email to the Company and asked-I'll post what I learn as soon as I learn it.[/QUOTE]

When I read your post I also sent a E Mail to hydro-gear but I have not heard from them and did not think I would. If this is true they would prefer not to talk about it.


#85

R

robert

Me too, still waiting.


#86

B

Black Bart

Me too, still waiting.
DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH


#87

R

robert

Direct from Hydro-Gear; the member (Jet?) who suggested that the ZT2800 does not have steel gears is correct it has powdered metal you don't get steel until the ZT3100 and up.

The 2800's were described as a 'estate' mower unit not commercial quality but high end consumer.


#88

B

Black Bart

Direct from Hydro-Gear; the member (Jet?) who suggested that the ZT2800 does not have steel gears is correct it has powdered metal you don't get steel until the ZT3100 and up.

The 2800's were described as a 'estate' mower unit not commercial quality but high end consumer.

You actually heard from Hydr-Gear I'm surprised.
I have not heard from them.

Has anyone ever torn one of these units out.


#89

R

robert

BlackBart, I called Hydro-Gear today and spoke to someone in tech services.
Hopefully someone who has been inside these can give their impressions-what exactly are powdered metal gears anyway-and are there different 'grades' of these gears??


#90

K

KennyV

powdered metal gears are not necessarily a bad or new process... they are used in a lot of applications...
Metal Powder Products - Gears & Gear Rolling - Powder Metal Gears, Spur, Helical, Face Gears
:smile:KennyV


#91

Jetblast

Jetblast

Honestly, the gear difference didn't seem like that big a deal to me given I'm just using my mower on my own lawn. Besides, I've never read of any Hydrogear integrated transaxle blowing gears and I've Googled them up, down, and all around. For me it was the charge pumps on the ZT-3100s that sounded more enticing and I will say, they are snappy. I'm pretty sure I could get a decent wheelie out of my ZTR if I had a beer or two in me.


#92

R

robert

Kenny/Jet, while I agree that the ZT2800's in my Exmark will outlast me by many, many years (hell it doesn't start half the time :laughing:) the use of powder metal gears, according to my research, is for one reason only in this application-cost.

For the homeowner, or as Hydro-Gear puts it, the 'Estate' owner-this transmission is probably a good choice, it is serviceable with the external filters all others are sealed and are used by a surprising number of mower makers..


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