Well I'm 77 years old and have had 2 failed back surgeries so yes ride is a big deal .Welcome to the Forum !
Not knowing either machine - one thing you might think about is that as you get older, you will appreciate anything that makes your ride more comfortable.
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[COLOR=#WFF]Good Luck with your choice ![/COLOR]
Everything is looking better with the Simplicity except the rear wheels... "JD has 22" rear tires Simplicity has 20"...". I have always liked a larger tire...
but all other things are indicating that the Simplicity is the best choice...
Welcome to the forum and follow up with what you get... :smile:KennyV
I was interested in the Champion but they were sold out of them,Ask to see if you can get the simplicity with the kawi motor if so that would be a great mower also another nice motor is the Kohler commando I'm sure they can get you it.
I will ask about another engine but since B & S owns Simplicity not sure if they will offer a competing engine.
At my age I don't think I will ever wear it out regardless of what I get.
Yes their web site claims they sell 11 million engines per year that is a lot of engines.I wouldn't worry too much about B&S ... they have been around since 1908... that's 103 years... they will be around for a while longer...:smile:KennyV
.....I want to buy from a close dealer where I can get good service so I'm only considering these two brands so please NO suggestions on how I should buy something else just looking for advice on these 2 mowers.
I think I would prefer the KAW engine over the B&S but the suspension on the Simplicity looks nice what would you buy.
Yes the engine is the professional series B&SI'm not much for zero turns either but have only used them a little bit. John Deere and Simplicity are both great machines. I just bought a Simplicity Conquest tractor with the Vangaurd motor but seriously considered the JDs. Do you know which Briggs engine is on the Simplicity? I like Kawasakis a lot but a Briggs Vangaurd is right there with the Kawasakis. Other Briggs are good but not commercial like the Vangaurd and Kawasaki.
I hate Kohler Commands, never had any luck with them and they are expensive to fix and they need a lot of fixing. The Command is supposed to be their top of the line so I'd stay away from anything Kohler. When they made cast iron workhorses Kohler was king but now they just build average motors but charge a premium for their reputation that they don't live up to and they don't stand behind their products when they break either.
What about Skag zero truns? I don't know much about them myself but I know a lot of landscapers around here use them and like them a lot as far as durability.
Good luck!
The Bad Boy is about $800.00 more.I wonder why Simplicity would bother with all the extra parts for a suspension if they didn't intend for it to work ????? I wonder if that sales person just likes the Deere better or if they get more profit on the Deere ????
Have you asked in the Simplicity Thread about the suspension ?
I know you said you didn't want other suggestions, but do you have a Tractor Supply near you ? The Bad Boy has a suspension too and is made in USA. Just ignore this part if you like !
The dealer that sells both of them is 55 miles from my home I called him on the phone just to check pricing.Water-cooled Kubota, now that's a sweet motor!!! I hope the JD/Simplicity dealer gives you the straight info, not just pushing the mower he makes the most money on. Some people say JD parts are more expensive but I don't know if that's true or not, might be.
Comfort is important. I just turned 40 and I appreciate a nice ride more than I did than when I was 20 and landscaping full time, being thrashed around on a one wheel sulky behind a JD commercial walk-behind mower. Actually I loved those and yup, they had Kawasaki motors that were used and abused and never missed a beat.
After reading your post today I called the dealer that had offered me a Z445 with the Kawasaki engine and told him about your post.Beware, this morning i called John Deere in the USA and all 2011 Z445 come with a 27HP John Deere Cyclonic Engine (Briggs & Stratton ELS).
Same engine for USA/Canada.
Yesterday, i visited a John Deere dealer in Canada and the engine on the 2011 Z445 was the 27HP John Deere Cyclonic Engine.
Kawasaki is no more available this year.
The Z445 also come with the ZT2800 transmission.
If you can get one with a kawa engine, jump on it !
From my side, maybe i will buy the Z445 with the all new 27HP John Deere Cyclonic Engine.
It come with a warranty of 4 years or 300 hours.
The price is 4600$CAD
How much it costs you at your JD dealer in USA ?
Z445 with 54" deck $4349 is the best price I have found.
Twall I understand your point about change but nothing ever advances or gets better without change.
If the whole world had your view we would still be driving model T Fords
Sounds like poor maintainance to me.Yes, but YEARLY change? That GUARANTEES that you'll never get parts - making something with a simple carb problem a POS........
Mechanically, their tolerances are typically great Japanese style awesome. But the carbs - I've seen more JD's for dirt just because the only way to fix it is get lucky on ebay, or get a new engine........
Talking about problems today when I was talking to a big power equipment dealer I ask him what was the problem they saw the most.
This is a really big dealer in a major city and they sell a lot of mowers.
He said blown head gasket's on Kohler's was the #1 engine problem.
I don't know all he said was they blow head gasket'sI'm curious - was it just a 'crap gasket' kinda problem? Poor design? Overheating? Poor machining?I said in another thread that Kohler seemed to be resting on their laurels, and making junkier and junkier engines through the years........
Some people would break a piece of railroad iron.
@twall:
What worth the new engine (27HP John Deere Cyclonic Engine - Briggs & Stratton ELS) on the new 2011 JD Z445 ?
Good or bad ?
When it comes to operating machinery some people don't have a clue.Just HAD to comment on the "some people could break a piece of railroad iron"
I have a neighbor who is well enough off to have a "handyman" He said that "Robert could break an anvil" He has a LARGE JD 4wd Farm Tractor (don't know the model) and Robert bent one of the lift arms on the FEL so badly it couldn't be fixed and had to be replaced.
Wow, that's some serious discounts you are looking at. I think that would definitely turn my head their way to at least go check one out in person.
I took a quick look at their website and the ZT offers either the Kohler Courage or the Briggs Pro motor. The Kohler Courage is not even on par with the Command which is not good so I would run fast from that option. The Briggs Pro might be great, might not be great, I just don't know much about them. Now, the ZT Commercial is a $1,000 more but they offer it with the Briggs Vanguard on all 3 deck choices. That is a true commercial motor on what appears to be a commercial build ZTR with bigger tires, heavier duty hydo tranny, etc. If you can get at least $750 discount and you like the Bad Boy I'd definitely pony up the extra to get the Commercial ZT with the Vanguard motor and whichever deck you want. Is the dealer near you and seem like a good outfit that will work with you if you ever need anything after the purchase?
BTW, did you ever get a chance to test drive that Simplicity on some bumpy ground and see if the suspension is worth anything?[/QUOTE]NO I did not get to check them out Simplicity halted production for about 3 weeks so he did not get them.
The price of the Bad Boy is much more than what is listed on their web site.
Dealer mark up set up charge and state and local Taxes adds another 500 bucks or more.
The price of the Bad Boy is much more than what is listed on their web site.On RFDTV the Bad Boy Owners/Reps said there should be no set up - dealer just puts gas in and it is ready to go. ????? I'd mention that and ask why there is a "set up charge". Small mark up - maybe. I might also ask that question on the Bad Boy web site !!!!
@Black Bart: I finally ordered JD Z445 + mulch kit.
Congratulations on the new mower I'm sure you will like it.@Black Bart: I finally ordered JD Z445 + mulch kit.
My local JD dealer told be it worked ok as long as I mowed every 2 days but you must not cut more than an inch at a time.
Sure was a big disappointment when I first looked at it and knowing what the price was I thought I was going home with it but that all changed when I got on it and sit down.
Well I'm in no hurry so I will wait and see what the Simplicity is like.Wow, that stinks, that is a big disappointment. Well, hopefully the Simplicity will come in soon so you can try it. If it doesn't or if it does but you don't like it I don't think you can go wrong with the Deere.
Well if my 304 lbs. won't budge it how much would it take.You might want to try another forum or do some Google searches to get a wider variety of input from Ferris or Simplicity owners. Their suspension is anything but a gimmick. My yard is kind of bumpy so if I hadn't needed front wheel steering, I wouldn't have considered anything but a full suspension ZTR. Not everybody loves them, but I did a lot of research on these and found that most people who own them wonder how people use anything else. No flex fork or suspension seat can compare to that ride quality.
If you're too light for the stock springs even with minimum preload, you should be able to install slightly softer springs.
After reading your post today I called the dealer that had offered me a Z445 with the Kawasaki engine and told him about your post.
He said that was true but since I had said I was interested in the Kawasaki he quoted me a priced for one that they still had that was built early 2011.
When these are gone that will be the last of the Kaw engines in a JD
I talked to another dealer today and he said XMark was not going to offer the kaw engine either.
I would guess the B&S that will be offered in place of the Kaw engine cost the manufacture less $$$$$
It is beginning to look like JD is focused on competing with the lower priced mowers even at the expense of lowering quality.
With all the junk being imported from China we are accustom to buying this cheap stuff and no longer willing to pay for quality
...
As for my bad luck with the ZT2800, as far as I am able to determine mine is the only one with noise issues.
... Deere does NOT offer their 30 day satisfaction protection on the zt, and this I find interesting.
There are more than a few complaints about the whine... There are not "yet" very many failures... :smile:KennyV
... they are a little more prone to transient micro-cavitations (whine) than separate pump and wheel motors, so there are one or two mentions of this on the web, but I can find no evidence to support the idea that they're failure prone.
You've mentioned more than once that you think they're not desirable components. What's your basis for saying that?
There are a lot of the big guys using them... you are right. & they do cut weight and bulk, they are easier to install...
I myself would prefer the component system rather than the integral ... But the trend is definitely toward the latter...
There may be sparse mention on the web about the wine... in actual use, those that have been using pump & motor systems definitely notice, and mention it... I do not know that they will in fact fail, that's why I added, "There are not "yet" very many failures..."... I have not had good experience with machinery that has that level of audible complaint...
For all that are showing up, I do hope they develop a good track record... For the time,if given the choice, I will look for the separate system... :smile:KennyV
I am not saying the ZT2800's on my Exmark whine, they scream AND the darn thing doesn't even budge. Today I discovered that when it does this if I pull back into reverse, then push forward the mower will move with no unusual noise.
Is the ZT3100 significantly different?
jet, the problem is intermittent but I did manage to get the noise on tape.... dealer said that they couldn't do anything unless they heard the sound.
I think I would tell everyone thinking about a new mower to buy only one that had the ZT 3100 as a minimum, wonder if the charge pumps makes the units quieter?-of course I would also advise everyone not to buy Briggs......:thumbdown:
Well IMO you should not con-dim all ZT 2800 units just because you have a defective one.jet, the problem is intermittent but I did manage to get the noise on tape.... dealer said that they couldn't do anything unless they heard the sound.
I think I would tell everyone thinking about a new mower to buy only one that had the ZT 3100 as a minimum, wonder if the charge pumps makes the units quieter?-of course I would also advise everyone not to buy Briggs......:thumbdown:
Do you know for a fact that it has PM gears or is this more internet talk.Black Bart, if the zt2800 does have powdered metal gears as reported this would be a very good reason to opt for the 3100.
Then again even pm gears probably would outlast 3 homeowners.....
My dislike for BS is based on experience rather than opinion, the last two engines I have had by Briggs did not give satisfactory performance or service life-the Vanguard in the Simplicity did not give even 350 hours (twice yearly synthetic oil changes with twice yearly air filter changes) and an Intek on our DR vacuum is smoking badly at not even 70 hours-same maintainence schedule.
Contrast this to the four GX Honda's (one of which is about 30 years old and still start on the first pull after winter storage) and a couple of Robin's which have been 1000% reliable and the difference between Briggs and others is apparent.
BUT again, the 'Professional' Briggs -seems- to be different and even I would have taken another (but final) chance... and, there are many thousands of Briggs owners who claim to have had no issues.
The more I read and see the more it's apparent that no engine manufacturer is without duds, not even Honda or Kawasaki. I have bad-mouthed Kohler because I have been burned by two different Kohler Command engines but other people swear by them. I have seen Kawasakis be abused and never quit but other Kawasakis have had issues with plastic internal gears breaking. I have seen Hondas blow up and Briggs go forever. I guess you do the research, make the most educated choice you can and pray yours holds together, with proper maintenance of course.
I went with a Simplicity with Briggs Vanguard over a JD with Kawasdaki. I really like the Simplicty based on price, the rest of tractor itself being more heavily built and the Vanguard being a 100% Japanese motor (made by Diahatsu) like the Kawasaki, unlike all other Briggs made in USA or China. I also have read that Kawasaki has gone to several levels of motor too so it's no longer automatic that Kawasaki = commercial grade and the JD dealer would not or could not answer my questions regarding that.
I'm curious what went wrong with your Simplicity's Vanguard as it sounds like you maintained it very well.
Only negative so far is the same problem that all of them have, I sit on JD Bad Boy Toro X-Mark Simplicity all of them lean you back if you lean back in the seat.
I don't like to lay down while mowing the seat needs the back more vertical.
On mine the seat back is at an angle so if I move it I will need to drill new holes.That does seem to be the trend, doesn't it. I fixed that on mine by adding 3/4" spacers (just some extra large nuts) between the two rear seat mounting holes and the seat rails they mount on. I had enough extra thread on the bolts to where I didn't need to buy longer ones. Cheap and easy.
On mine the seat back is at an angle so if I move it I will need to drill new holes.
I found a nice seat but not sure if I want to spend that much since I only mow about 30 minutes a week.
LINK
Michigan Seat Highback Suspension Seat, Model# V-5300 | Suspension Seats | Northern Tool + Equipment
This looks like a nice seat has back angle adjust plus Lumbar adjust.
Actually that is a good price other places with similar seat is a 100 more.I had one of those on my "to buy" list but it turned out I didn't need it, at least not for now. That is a killer seat for sure. Great reviews too.
Direct from Hydro-Gear; the member (Jet?) who suggested that the ZT2800 does not have steel gears is correct it has powdered metal you don't get steel until the ZT3100 and up.
The 2800's were described as a 'estate' mower unit not commercial quality but high end consumer.