Briggs Vanguard 23hp Leaking Oil through Breather Tube

[efred]

It's also possible that your rings are getting blowby, pressurizing the crankcase, and pushing oil through the vent tube into the carb, making a mess like you described. It's much more involved to inspect, but maybe do another compression check. By the way, what is the proper spec on the compression for this engine?

 

[SnapperOwner]

Thanks! I'll keep that in mind for later. Based on advice I got here, I decided to just replace them. Arranged to get three hours of time today (figuring I'm very new at this and might need more than the two hours--smile). Got someone to drive three hours and pick up the gasket kit for me so that I can do it while we still have nice weather (thankful someone in the state had it).

45 minutes later and the valve covers and blower housing are off (have to remove fuel pump and bracket, oil cooler, air assembly, and top of dipstick on this Vanguard). Gettin' pretty good at this, so I think we made good time!

But, whoa! Could you please look at the photos and confirm my suspicions here? This doesn't look like any other head removals I've seen (yep, watched videos). Looks like a couple of hours of removing a lot of other pieces that keep those heads from sliding out. Am I figuring this wrong? Do we need to dismantle all those brackets and surrounds?

 

[SnapperOwner]

It's also possible that your rings are getting blowby, pressurizing the crankcase, and pushing oil through the vent tube into the carb, making a mess like you described. It's much more involved to inspect, but maybe do another compression check. By the way, what is the proper spec on the compression for this engine?

The person who did the first compression test for me is no longer available. I was told, in the early days, that anything over 90 was good. But I don't really know. Might be piston rings, too. I don't know. I'm trying really hard to fix this and really appreciate EVERY bit of help and suggestions I get from EVERY source. Thanks for taking your time to answer. Right now, I'm staring at these photos and overthinking my problem.

 

[SnapperOwner]

You win, Rivets. I'm done trying. The general lack of help/knowledge and size of the job is too much for me. I'll get rid of this the best I can and figure out how to mow the property in the spring. I'm going to say the rest of this stuff in case a future reader thinks I'm just one more of those . . . what was it someone on here said . . . "who want to put in the least effort possible" and have their "hand held".

For what it's worth, I'd like to say that we no longer have any small engine repair shops around here who are even writing new service tickets. The earliest I could an appointment at a mechanic 45 minutes away is SEVEN MONTHS from now. The dealers in our area are now only servicing machines they've sold, and our dealer doesn't have service anymore. Been told countless times that the old guys are retiring, and the young guys are too lazy to do menial work (their words, not mine). I had no option but to learn how to do this myself.

My daughter's been mowing our two acres all summer with a weedeater and is always tired and hurting. Five months ago, when I took on this task, I didn't even know where to find the carburetor, what it would look like or what a "rebuild" involved. Comments like "broken head gasket" sent me to youtube and blogs for 12-15 hours/six days a week for many months. Tore down the carb three times before being told that I wouldn't get anymore advice unless I replaced it. Another $300 (that solenoid wiring harness was a bit of a bear to snake around the flywheel), but it didn't fix the problem. The first time I saw "torqued" and "multimeter", I couldn't google fast enough. Boy, I sure was glad for all those videos and bloggers who explained it all and took the time to post torque specs and diagrams.

For anyone who hasn't bought parts since the springtime, they are next-to-impossible to find and the cost is exorbitant. My dealer has said twice "Are you sitting down?" before giving me part prices. Gone are the days of $10 head gaskets and $170 carbs for a Briggs Vanguard. And I got an e-mail from him that said, "Treat that main wiring harness with tender loving care. There are NO substitute parts available for this model."

Oh, and before I'm finished. How does one take a small-engine immersion course from point zero with little-to-no one-on-one help without overthinking? I'll admit that I probably am overthinking a lot of what seems basic to an experienced person. In fact, all I've done for nearly four months is think about these repairs. To the detriment of my family, actually. They'll be glad to have clean laundry and decent meals again, I'm sure, when they find out I'm no longer "overthinking" the mower repairs. My husband is a Stage 4 Cancer patient who is no longer able to help. Means that the rest of us have to care for him and do his work, too. And the cost of the parts is already crazy, so paying a mechanic (if we could have found one) $55/hour is out of the question.

I appreciate all of you who tried to help. And, Rivets, I'm not laughing. It isn't funny.

 

[ILENGINE]

@SnapperOwner If you can find a mechanic for $55/hr you better take him home with you. $70/hr is the more normal price with some in the $125/hr range. Parts prices are high. Just did a carb kit on a Vanguard 18hp a couple weeks ago, and the repair kit by itself was $160. And to answer your question about having to take all the sheet metal and brackets off to remove the heads. And the answer is Yes.

And as a dealer I have been waiting on backordered parts since March. Last backordered part took 11 months to get. And when going from no small engine knowledge to trying to diagnose a complex problem is can be easy to get put into overload.

 

[Stokdgs]

You win, Rivets. I'm done trying. The general lack of help/knowledge and size of the job is too much for me. I'll get rid of this the best I can and figure out how to mow the property in the spring. I'm going to say the rest of this stuff in case a future reader thinks I'm just one more of those . . . what was it someone on here said . . . "who want to put in the least effort possible" and have their "hand held".

For what it's worth, I'd like to say that we no longer have any small engine repair shops around here who are even writing new service tickets. The earliest I could an appointment at a mechanic 45 minutes away is SEVEN MONTHS from now. The dealers in our area are now only servicing machines they've sold, and our dealer doesn't have service anymore. Been told countless times that the old guys are retiring, and the young guys are too lazy to do menial work (their words, not mine). I had no option but to learn how to do this myself.

My daughter's been mowing our two acres all summer with a weedeater and is always tired and hurting. Five months ago, when I took on this task, I didn't even know where to find the carburetor, what it would look like or what a "rebuild" involved. Comments like "broken head gasket" sent me to youtube and blogs for 12-15 hours/six days a week for many months. Tore down the carb three times before being told that I wouldn't get anymore advice unless I replaced it. Another $300 (that solenoid wiring harness was a bit of a bear to snake around the flywheel), but it didn't fix the problem. The first time I saw "torqued" and "multimeter", I couldn't google fast enough. Boy, I sure was glad for all those videos and bloggers who explained it all and took the time to post torque specs and diagrams.

For anyone who hasn't bought parts since the springtime, they are next-to-impossible to find and the cost is exorbitant. My dealer has said twice "Are you sitting down?" before giving me part prices. Gone are the days of $10 head gaskets and $170 carbs for a Briggs Vanguard. And I got an e-mail from him that said, "Treat that main wiring harness with tender loving care. There are NO substitute parts available for this model."

Oh, and before I'm finished. How does one take a small-engine immersion course from point zero with little-to-no one-on-one help without overthinking? I'll admit that I probably am overthinking a lot of what seems basic to an experienced person. In fact, all I've done for nearly four months is think about these repairs. To the detriment of my family, actually. They'll be glad to have clean laundry and decent meals again, I'm sure, when they find out I'm no longer "overthinking" the mower repairs. My husband is a Stage 4 Cancer patient who is no longer able to help. Means that the rest of us have to care for him and do his work, too. And the cost of the parts is already crazy, so paying a mechanic (if we could have found one) $55/hour is out of the question.

I appreciate all of you who tried to help. And, Rivets, I'm not laughing. It isn't funny.

Snapper Owner, You, your Sweetheart, and your Family are All in my prayers of Faith...

 

[bertsmobile1]

The problem we have is we have no idea about the level of competiance of the posters
When people say they have no idea then we walk then through the whole job bolt by bolt
However to do that in the diagnosis phase would take 500 lines of text and with the short attention span now days, most would zone out after the first 4 lines .
What we would expect posters to do is ASK for more detailed instruction or even do a search using "blown head gasket " and if they did they would find 25 mower manuals worth of information

 

[VRR.DYNDNS>BIZ]

Not an Intek it is a Vanguard. Blown Head gasket or a crankcase breather valve. Pull the crank case breather cover off the #2 cylinder and check to see if the reed valve is broken.

both a blown head gasket and a bad breather system will pressurize the crankcase ( in case of gasket ) or not create vacuum ( in case of breather ). One way to determine the culprit is a leakdown test. I suspect breather because you indicated the smoke came after a bit. Unless on a slope later when smoke appeared, the smoke from blown gasket would be same 5 seconds run time and after, where the breather needs time to push oil into the air filter cavity and get pulled thru the filter ( on some models ) or if tube mounts inside filter clean side, still takes some time but sooner than outside the filter.

 

[Richard Milhous]

You win, Rivets. I'm done trying. The general lack of help/knowledge and size of the job is too much for me. I'll get rid of this the best I can and figure out how to mow the property in the spring. I'm going to say the rest of this stuff in case a future reader thinks I'm just one more of those . . . what was it someone on here said . . . "who want to put in the least effort possible" and have their "hand held".

For what it's worth, I'd like to say that we no longer have any small engine repair shops around here who are even writing new service tickets. The earliest I could an appointment at a mechanic 45 minutes away is SEVEN MONTHS from now. The dealers in our area are now only servicing machines they've sold, and our dealer doesn't have service anymore. Been told countless times that the old guys are retiring, and the young guys are too lazy to do menial work (their words, not mine). I had no option but to learn how to do this myself.

My daughter's been mowing our two acres all summer with a weedeater and is always tired and hurting. Five months ago, when I took on this task, I didn't even know where to find the carburetor, what it would look like or what a "rebuild" involved. Comments like "broken head gasket" sent me to youtube and blogs for 12-15 hours/six days a week for many months. Tore down the carb three times before being told that I wouldn't get anymore advice unless I replaced it. Another $300 (that solenoid wiring harness was a bit of a bear to snake around the flywheel), but it didn't fix the problem. The first time I saw "torqued" and "multimeter", I couldn't google fast enough. Boy, I sure was glad for all those videos and bloggers who explained it all and took the time to post torque specs and diagrams.

For anyone who hasn't bought parts since the springtime, they are next-to-impossible to find and the cost is exorbitant. My dealer has said twice "Are you sitting down?" before giving me part prices. Gone are the days of $10 head gaskets and $170 carbs for a Briggs Vanguard. And I got an e-mail from him that said, "Treat that main wiring harness with tender loving care. There are NO substitute parts available for this model."

Oh, and before I'm finished. How does one take a small-engine immersion course from point zero with little-to-no one-on-one help without overthinking? I'll admit that I probably am overthinking a lot of what seems basic to an experienced person. In fact, all I've done for nearly four months is think about these repairs. To the detriment of my family, actually. They'll be glad to have clean laundry and decent meals again, I'm sure, when they find out I'm no longer "overthinking" the mower repairs. My husband is a Stage 4 Cancer patient who is no longer able to help. Means that the rest of us have to care for him and do his work, too. And the cost of the parts is already crazy, so paying a mechanic (if we could have found one) $55/hour is out of the question.

I appreciate all of you who tried to help. And, Rivets, I'm not laughing. It isn't funny.

Yeah, there's a general presumption here that everyone is a wrench of some kind, because that's who asks questions. No one has the guts to start from the bare basics anymore. It's a long, painful road to endless disappointment... but you do what have to do.

Like mowing two acres with a weedeater. Dang. I mowed a half acre like that. Once.

You'll need a new weedeater.

 

[lbrac]

I don't know what the compression test pressure should be on your engine, but you indicate that both cylinders are very nearly the same pressure. It is likely that a leaking head gasket, valve, rings, cracked head, etc., on one cylinder would cause a pressure imbalance between cylinders. Overfilling with motor oil could cause oil to be forced into the breather hose and pushed up through the vent hose, although you indicate it was halfway between add and full. I don't have experience with your engine, so I'm not going to offer anything else that could just confuse the situation further. B&S has information and videos on their website, www.briggsandstratton.com, but I don't know how helpful it would be under the circumstances. Might be worth a try.