Briggs & Stratton discontinues all Snapper & Simplicity tractors & zero turns - 9/8/2023

[TobyU]

Nope, Lambert's intention all along was to make money by selling off the assets a piece at a time, making money because the parts are worth more than the whole. Take a look back at the movie Wall Street, where Gordon Gecko bought an airline that was under performing. He bought it because he knew that the parts were worth more than the whole. The parts being the mail and cargo carrying contracts, the planes, equipment and the landing and take off rights at the airports the airline used were worth a LOT more than the stock price he paid for the whole airline. The quick money is in selling off the parts over time.

The problem is that the value of the services and goods that the (here fictional) company provided to the people it served and the employees is never counted in classic economic valuations.

This fictional situation, applies in real life to Sears, where the private equity investor realized he could make more money by selling off Sear's brands (Kenmore, Craftsman, DieHard) and the real estate that the company owned. Once Lambert bought Sears he realized it was hard to run a national retail chain, and that competing with the likes of Amazon was impossible unless he invested a huge amount of more money. So he started selling the parts and realized how much more he could make by doing so. Pretty much the same with Briggs and Stratton's brands, only they waited too long to sell the brands off, and so its gone.

This certainly does play out this way and the numbers don't lie but the problem is you eventually run out of real estate and brand lines to sell! So this makes these people vultures. They have to move on to the next whereas a real company we can respect is in it for the long haul and does whatever needs to be done to keep their company strong and grow it as much as possible.
It's one of those examples in the world where there's more than one way to accomplish and end result and in this case the end result would just be making money or the most money but one can be sustained and one of course can never be.
Thus we have these people and these holdings companies that just continue to go around and around and around destroying things that others spent decades building into great things.

 

[ILENGINE]

That seems to coincide with about the things I witnessed over the past few years doing that time frame you mentioned. Of course I only saw Walmart mowers in one region so I didn't see the other side of it. Also, you mentioned 2005 and tecumseh, that's true but they were only around for about another year or so because my 2006 or so they were gone.
I have one of the last Toro models with the Tecumseh engine in my large collection of mowers that has the old what I call shorter rounder deck and even though there are pros and cons to each design, I prefer the newer taller square deck that came out and the Briggs & Stratton engine on it after that but only up until the new briggs took over because I hate that engine.

All the differentiations between Husqvarna and ayp etc are fine if you're trying to be technical about the company structure and I mentioned part of that in my earlier post because you have hop, HOA etc but for the most part, up to now it's all been the same.
They may want to treat Poulan and poulan Pro as a separate entity but for years, and pretty much everything I have seen they share such similarities with the orange Husqvarna that I consider them the same.
I can, however, see how if you're really getting detailed on the analysis you could see how a current or more current poulan black push mower or maybe one of their entry self-propelled mowers is the same mower as the previous red painted Craftsman mowers when they were still basically made by ayp or that technically might have been after ayp was no longer really being called AYP but it was still the same idea under Husqvarna.

They did that weird thing and made their push mowers shorter and that's what these are like with the black ones and the red ones that were older craftsmen's whereas the self-propelled mowers whether they were black Craftsman's or even the older dark green ones, were just like the orange painted husqvarna's just a different color..

It all gets confusing when you're trying to iron out every little detail but the fact remains that as we can tell there's only three or four main players in the game and it's basically been that way for 15 plus years now and it's only going to get worse with Stanley Black and Decker owning all of MTD.

I worked two Walmarts one had Murray and the Other MTD, From my understanding the AYP west half of the US was only 5% of their annual production with the majority of their production going to Craftsman. And the reason that Husqvarna(HOP) and Poulan(HCP) are treated separately is poulan dealers can't warranty Husqvarna branded products. If I remember correctly Tecumseh shutdown in 2010. There main issue was something like 40% of their production went to Murray and with the demise of Murray in 2005 killed Tecumseh. It also didn't help Briggs when they Purchased Simplicity then purchased Murray to try to recoop their $47M that Murray owned Briggs, which was followed by MTD refusing to use Briggs engines because Briggs was no longer an engine supplier but a direct competitor.

The main players are Husqvarna which left the consumer market in 2019 and have been reducing their footprint since then moving more into their robot mowers. Toro with Toro, Dingo, Spartan, and Charles Machine Works aka Ditch Witch. B-D with MTD with all their various brands and Exel industries aka Hustler. JD, and in my area Scag for the commercial guys and some high end homeowners.

 

[TobyU]

I worked two Walmarts one had Murray and the Other MTD, From my understanding the AYP west half of the US was only 5% of their annual production with the majority of their production going to Craftsman. And the reason that Husqvarna(HOP) and Poulan(HCP) are treated separately is poulan dealers can't warranty Husqvarna branded products. If I remember correctly Tecumseh shutdown in 2010. There main issue was something like 40% of their production went to Murray and with the demise of Murray in 2005 killed Tecumseh. It also didn't help Briggs when they Purchased Simplicity then purchased Murray to try to recoop their $47M that Murray owned Briggs, which was followed by MTD refusing to use Briggs engines because Briggs was no longer an engine supplier but a direct competitor.

The main players are Husqvarna which left the consumer market in 2019 and have been reducing their footprint since then moving more into their robot mowers. Toro with Toro, Dingo, Spartan, and Charles Machine Works aka Ditch Witch. B-D with MTD with all their various brands and Exel industries aka Hustler. JD, and in my area Scag for the commercial guys and some high end homeowners.

It looks like all the Tecumseh stuff started in 2007 when they were sold to another company and then that company cease production of the stuff in 2008 and then it shows them closing their doors for good in 2009.
I know I bought one in either late 2005 or early 2006 with it Tecumseh on it and very shortly thereafter they disappeared. I also don't remember the shortage for a while of Tecumseh branded parts where the dealers had to get the little Chinese bull gaskets and needles and seats and they still to this day can't make the needle valve long enough and the biggest problem is they can't make the gasket for the bowl top fat enough so most of the time they won't seal it all so it's a waste to even buy those.
But then these brand new ones in Tecumseh packages started coming in a few years later and they're readily available now so of course someone bought the rights and kept going like that but at least they did it properly.

I have also heard that it was the class action lawsuit over the horsepower wars that basically was the straw that broke the camel's back for Tecumseh.
Briggs paid the most and I think Tecumseh paid the second most but four or five manufacturers got penalized based on how many engines they had sold and misrepresented etc.
Tecumseh just wasn't in a place to absorb all those losses.

I always figured Walmart just kind of haphazardly did whatever they wanted to from time to time and not on any real set basis or geographical line etc..
If they get a better deal this month from somebody they'll buy a bunch of them etc and then it takes months for everything to get there and to filter out to all the stores so I never concern myself too much with what you'll find there and don't expect anything..

I think that Poulan thing is by design in other words the chicken and the egg..
I don't know that dealers want to work on anything for warranty any more than they have to so this gets them out of doing it whatever but there's no logical reason they can't work on both.

Just like there's no logical reason today for many shops to not work on Craftsman but it's rampant in my area.
Most also don't work on MTD either and that makes more sense but it's crazy to work on a Troy-Bilt but then not work on a craftsman because they're the same machine for a while now.

There was a Toro dealer a few years ago that would not work on MTD but they sold the Toro Rider as far as I know so if they were working on that trail they were working on an MTD.. LOL.
I finally asked one of them and like I said it's not logical it's more personal. Every shop is simply jam-packed full and by getting rid of several brands you will not service, it lowers your workload and eventually lowers your call volume too.
Well actually, it instantly lowers your call volume because of these annoying customers that will call for an update, a status update, or call to check on a mower that's in for service which is absolutely ridiculous and customer should never do - at least they shouldn't make it a habit which most of them do!

It can increase the call volume by three or four times and when everybody does it, which most do, it actually can slow down everyone's repairs etc.


I think it's a shame these manufacturers are openly announcing they're getting out of the more business or whatever, even though I've never liked Honda mowers, and I can only assume most of them are going to focus on battery powered stuff but regardless,..
I've given my predictions before or at least I have my eyes open to what may happen and I guess I kind of hope it does but I see no way that people are going to buy these battery powered mowers and be nearly as happy with them as they have been with their gasoline ones for decades.
They are simply too much of a sacrifice for most people.
These companies needed to cool their Jets and not make rash, and complete decisions or shut down complete lines because the buyers remorse is going to set in on a lot of these people after just a few months or especially after a season and a half or so.
I feel a huge percentage of people are going to want their old gasoline mowers back and if the manufacturers aren't able to make them quickly and easily I guess they won't but we're only get these cheap off brand crap ones.
I expect there to be a surging demand for used gasoline mowers so people can get back to mowing like they always did with power, long basically unlimited cut times, etc.
Basically the people who really embrace and love these battery powered mowers are some of the same people I talk badly about all the time who focus and are usually willing to pay more for things like speed and convenience.
In this case it's just convenience but there are several sacrifices that go with it that all those except the ones with very small portions of grass to cut and who do it when it's not severely overgrown or going to notice quickly.

People who just want to plug that battery into the machine and mow who don't have enough mechanical ability, and don't want to learn any to even change an air filter or a spark plug,... I really have no use for in this world and I think the world has no use for them.
Over the decades, some people have learned these things out of necessity and that's good that it was a motivator for them because they are better off for it, but today, most people don't even attempt and would have no interest in learning anything like that.
It's an epidemic problem and it makes our country and our world worse, sadly.

Oh well..... I've given up mostly on trying to change the world or trying to worry about the crazy things, wrong things or whatever my opinions are on the things people do.
I just want them to leave me alone and quit doing things that do affect me or make it harder for me to do what I want to do because that's exactly what I'm going to do and I'm quite adamant about it.
Of course this isn't really a smooth road to take anymore but it's the only one I can stand the drive on!

 

[ILENGINE]

I have also heard that it was the class action lawsuit over the horsepower wars that basically was the straw that broke the camel's back for Tecumseh.
Briggs paid the most and I think Tecumseh paid the second most but four or five manufacturers got penalized based on how many engines they had sold and misrepresented etc.
Tecumseh just wasn't in a place to absorb all those losses.

Briggs had a bad habit of changing the hp sticker on their mowers, even to the point that they put them over the top of the other sticker. Heard of one case where a dealer got a special on riders one year that advertised with 17.5 hp engines, but when they arrived at 15.5 hp engines, and the solution was the dealer was sent 17.5 hp stickers to replace the 15.5 hp stickers on the engine. Craftsman used a different hp rating system then the engine companies did so they rated their mowers with higher hp then the engine manufacturers did that was in that mower. Like a CV22 kohler engine on a Craftsman with 46 inch deck would have a 23 hp sticker on the side of the mower.

 

[Hammermechanicman]

Most of the dealers around me now only service brands they carry and one only services what they sell. I get folks bringing me one or two year old box store mowers because the warranty dealer is over a hundred miles away. I was approached once to be a warranty center for a certain brand. Oh hell no! I hope Stens fixes their supply chain soon. Seems like half the stuff I need is backordered just like the OEM parts they replace.

 

[bertsmobile1]

It is fairly simple when you look at the management.
For the past decade all managers must have an MBA but none are required to have any industry experience because the MBA course teaches accountants & economists that business management is the same for all business .
Because most big businesses are public companies they are now beholden to the shareholders which was fine when no one shareholder had enough shares to dictate to the boards
However now days large investors like pension funds & pooled investment funds hold sufficient volumes of shares to install a bunch of hard line profit maximizers and maximum dividend payers and thee morons go from company to company because the second they get appointed the share price increases and directors get paid bonuses on the share price & profit to capital ratio .
Thus these "super managers" decapitalize businesses pocketing the profits from selling off sections of the business because it shows a larger profit .

Then there is the other problem that since the 70's the emphasis has been on lowering ticket price which send the company down the low margin on a high turnover path, which is fine provided that you never have a bad season and fail to sell your entire inventory or your volumes drop.
Briggs got the double whammy there .
Foolishly they capitulated to MTD's demand and closed down the Murray factory for fear of MTD going to imported engines, which of course is exactly what MTD did in any case .
Then shifting production to NY because NY laws allowed staff to be paid 5% less than in Wisconsin cause an immediate increase in the share price because the desk jockies just saw reduced costs. The disruption to production we all know about and the failure to supply engines for the following 2 seasons then crippled the volumes and quite frankly I expect to see B & S vanish as a manufacturer ( well assembler actually ) from the USA any day and becoming an importer of B & S engines made in China .
Now as Simplicity was a premium brand that should have had a higher profit margin I would have thought would be retained because B & S would have a known premium brand using B & S engines so it is a surprise sort of that Simplicity went.
OTOH they are complicated machines and have high assembly costs compared to ZTR's which are dirt simple and can easily be 100% robot made .
The market share for ZTR's is increasing while the share for tractors is reducing
Residential markets will be forced to go 100% battery in the near future so not a big shock really.

Long term Toro & JD will probably continue to make IC mowers , but expect them to become diesel or EFI only in the very near future and this production will be on the back of their agricultural business . Kubota is reducing their small mower range .
Eventually there will be only 1 mower only manufacturer and that will be MTD who will be making everything that is not imported or part of a massively larger more diversified group

Now I do not have any idea of housing in the USA but down here all of the new houses are massive mansions on tiny blocks and as such have no lawn
We are now building houses on 1/8 th acre lots with fences so close you can touch them from both side windows and a back yard less than 2 yards long so a robot mower will keep it cut in less than 15 minutes run time a week .
We have had 6,000 new residences built here since I bought the run and most of them have almost no grass at all .
The government wants to accomodate 2,000,000 more people in the next 5 years and have 400,000 new residences built for them to live in.
Even in the suburbs, houses on 1/4 acre blocks get demolished & split into 3 lots .

 

[justice]

It really caught my eye when I saw that heading. I am an old geezer. And I use many types of lawn equipment. And this actually did not surprise me. What all the comments I seen everyone had a legitimate idea and most had hit the nail on the head. I have encounter many things trying to maintain my equipment. It like my old Kubota. Had the rear rims complety rusted out from that stuff you put in the tires for weight. Now I see where they went to a beet juice not so harmful on the rim. Rims are very scarce for that particular tractor here in U.S. There something that the bolt pattern size was unique or the size of it for the Kubota B6000 E. So far, I do not know of an aftermarket for them and if you do find a used one the cost is astronomical. I know I've done a ton of research and lot of phone calling. Mostly dead ends. A good tractor but impossible to maintain parts. An obsolete model of tractor. There a few around but not a lot. So, you see I think everyone is seeing changes. That our lawn equipment world is changing as is our world and the people in it. And what I can see it not for the good. The equipment is junk. Made to gouge the working man pocket. Throw it away and get another. Not a good idea.

 

[TobyU]

Briggs had a bad habit of changing the hp sticker on their mowers, even to the point that they put them over the top of the other sticker. Heard of one case where a dealer got a special on riders one year that advertised with 17.5 hp engines, but when they arrived at 15.5 hp engines, and the solution was the dealer was sent 17.5 hp stickers to replace the 15.5 hp stickers on the engine. Craftsman used a different hp rating system then the engine companies did so they rated their mowers with higher hp then the engine manufacturers did that was in that mower. Like a CV22 kohler engine on a Craftsman with 46 inch deck would have a 23 hp sticker on the side of the mower.

I was simply referring to the class action suit where the engine manufacturers were fined millions of dollars. I can look it up and give you the exact amounts but it was something well over the tens of millions.
They were fined on the approximate number of engines they sold in misrepresented so Briggs had the largest fine.
I do know they started to rate the horsepower a little differently afterwards and most of them went to gross foot pounds of torque but regardless it's still pretty much just as bad.
People are suckers and fall for this higher horsepower rating when it's really not one of the biggest concerns of the mower because really, if ever has any more been made that even the lowest horsepower engine available but among many models that is not plenty powerful enough to do the job.

 

[TobyU]

It is fairly simple when you look at the management.
For the past decade all managers must have an MBA but none are required to have any industry experience because the MBA course teaches accountants & economists that business management is the same for all business .
Because most big businesses are public companies they are now beholden to the shareholders which was fine when no one shareholder had enough shares to dictate to the boards
However now days large investors like pension funds & pooled investment funds hold sufficient volumes of shares to install a bunch of hard line profit maximizers and maximum dividend payers and thee morons go from company to company because the second they get appointed the share price increases and directors get paid bonuses on the share price & profit to capital ratio .
Thus these "super managers" decapitalize businesses pocketing the profits from selling off sections of the business because it shows a larger profit .

Then there is the other problem that since the 70's the emphasis has been on lowering ticket price which send the company down the low margin on a high turnover path, which is fine provided that you never have a bad season and fail to sell your entire inventory or your volumes drop.
Briggs got the double whammy there .
Foolishly they capitulated to MTD's demand and closed down the Murray factory for fear of MTD going to imported engines, which of course is exactly what MTD did in any case .
Then shifting production to NY because NY laws allowed staff to be paid 5% less than in Wisconsin cause an immediate increase in the share price because the desk jockies just saw reduced costs. The disruption to production we all know about and the failure to supply engines for the following 2 seasons then crippled the volumes and quite frankly I expect to see B & S vanish as a manufacturer ( well assembler actually ) from the USA any day and becoming an importer of B & S engines made in China .
Now as Simplicity was a premium brand that should have had a higher profit margin I would have thought would be retained because B & S would have a known premium brand using B & S engines so it is a surprise sort of that Simplicity went.
OTOH they are complicated machines and have high assembly costs compared to ZTR's which are dirt simple and can easily be 100% robot made .
The market share for ZTR's is increasing while the share for tractors is reducing
Residential markets will be forced to go 100% battery in the near future so not a big shock really.

Long term Toro & JD will probably continue to make IC mowers , but expect them to become diesel or EFI only in the very near future and this production will be on the back of their agricultural business . Kubota is reducing their small mower range .
Eventually there will be only 1 mower only manufacturer and that will be MTD who will be making everything that is not imported or part of a massively larger more diversified group

Now I do not have any idea of housing in the USA but down here all of the new houses are massive mansions on tiny blocks and as such have no lawn
We are now building houses on 1/8 th acre lots with fences so close you can touch them from both side windows and a back yard less than 2 yards long so a robot mower will keep it cut in less than 15 minutes run time a week .
We have had 6,000 new residences built here since I bought the run and most of them have almost no grass at all .
The government wants to accomodate 2,000,000 more people in the next 5 years and have 400,000 new residences built for them to live in.
Even in the suburbs, houses on 1/4 acre blocks get demolished & split into 3 lots .

They will over build and destroy the entire way of life!
I can't stand population and overpopulation.

 

[Reel Mower Expert]

The dealer network and consumers are the ones who need to take responsibility.

Consumers are constantly demanding cheaper and more affordable products. As a result, the dealer network has had to adapt and start offering lower-quality items just to stay in the game.

Now, we find ourselves complaining that the major brands are going under, and we're quick to point fingers at the accountants.

Believe me, if you had a product sitting on your dealership floor that just wouldn't sell and you had to practically give it away to move it, you'd drop it without hesitation.

Business decisions, no matter where they're made, always come with consequences.

Unfortunately, what happened to Briggs & Stratton can be traced back to Todd Teske. He systematically dismantled BASCO, and then COVID-19 hit. If it weren't for Teske's actions, the Briggs Corporation, as it existed before him, might have weathered the pandemic just fine.