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Briggs & Stratton Blowing Smoke
#1
E
EddieC
E
EddieC
I put a new B&S engine (INTEK 17.5 HP - Model 31R907-0006-G1) on my Snapper riding mower 3 years ago. All running great until today when it started BLOWING SMOKE..... a lot of smoke. Pulled the oil dip stick and smelled of gas. Changed the oil and blew a small amount of smoke on first start. Second start had no smoke and runs smooth. Any advice on what's going on here. Here's a link to a You Tube 20 second video showing what's happening:
#2
TylerFrankel1
TylerFrankel1
I've seen this many times... I believe your issue is a failed needle/seat valve in the carburetor. This valve regulates gas flow into the float bowl. The needle tip is made of rubber and if it becomes at all distorted it will allow gas to flow into the carburetor and overflow it. The overflowing gas travels from the carburetor into the engine and cylinder head. It then slips past the piston rings and fills up the crankcase where the oil is with gas. That's why you smelled gas. This raises the level of oil way too high as it is diluted with gas to the point where basically a 50/50 oil gas mix is seeping into the combustion chamber and other places it doesn't belong when the engine is running. That immense amount of oil burning causes smoke. If you change the oil, voila, that gas is gone from the oil and it's back at the right level, so the smoke will stop. However, it will happen again if you don't address the carburetor. Either replace the needle/seat, replace the carburetor, or install an in-line fuel shut off valve that you shut off when you aren't using it. I'd start by using a shut-off valve and seeing if that solves the problem. Cheap, quick, easy and if that doesn't solve it no harm done. If it does work and if you're comfortable with it leave it that way. Otherwise, replace the carburetor or needle/seat.
This is probably happening because of the crappy ethanol gas we're forced to use nowadays combined with Briggs having awful QC as of late. And I imagine you may have let this thing sit with gas over the winter which can exacerbate those factors.
This is probably happening because of the crappy ethanol gas we're forced to use nowadays combined with Briggs having awful QC as of late. And I imagine you may have let this thing sit with gas over the winter which can exacerbate those factors.
#3
E
EddieC
E
EddieC
Great suggestions! Thank you. Lot better than replacing the engine again.I've seen this many times... I believe your issue is a failed needle/seat valve in the carburetor. This valve regulates gas flow into the float bowl. The needle tip is made of rubber and if it becomes at all distorted it will allow gas to flow into the carburetor and overflow it. The overflowing gas travels from the carburetor into the engine and cylinder head. It then slips past the piston rings and fills up the crankcase where the oil is with gas. That's why you smelled gas. This raises the level of oil way too high as it is diluted with gas to the point where basically a 50/50 oil gas mix is seeping into the combustion chamber and other places it doesn't belong when the engine is running. That immense amount of oil burning causes smoke. If you change the oil, voila, that gas is gone from the oil and it's back at the right level, so the smoke will stop. However, it will happen again if you don't address the carburetor. Either replace the needle/seat, replace the carburetor, or install an in-line fuel shut off valve that you shut off when you aren't using it. I'd start by using a shut-off valve and seeing if that solves the problem. Cheap, quick, easy and if that doesn't solve it no harm done. If it does work and if you're comfortable with it leave it that way. Otherwise, replace the carburetor or needle/seat.
This is probably happening because of the crappy ethanol gas we're forced to use nowadays combined with Briggs having awful QC as of late. And I imagine you may have let this thing sit with gas over the winter which can exacerbate those factors.
#4
TylerFrankel1
TylerFrankel1
Definitely a lot cheaper... 698183 is what you're looking for as far as shutoff valve. Local mower shop should have them.Great suggestions! Thank you. Lot better than replacing the engine again.
#5
S
slomo
S
slomo
Blown head gasket. Common thing on those Inteks. Or oil level way too high. That is definitely burning oil.
Not a carb issue at all. Not with all that smoke.
slomo
Not a carb issue at all. Not with all that smoke.
slomo
#6
StarTech
StarTech
I have seen engine with polluted oil (gas/oil mixed together) to smoke quite heavily. As OP mentions it was overfilled when checked and the oil change cure the smoking problem. Probably had run for nearly 10 minutes if the muffler got filled with oil.
Repairing the float valve leakage problem is best. Most likely the OP has the Nikki carburetor which need the float bowl gasket set as the o-ring on the transfer tube usually goes bad. Ethanol has little to do with it as o-ring ages and shrinks causing the leakage. I haven't seen much problems with the Ruixing carburetor but they are fairly new to the system.
Adding a remote fuel valve only masks the problem as the problem will get so bad that engine will start to flood while running.
Now the Briggs 310000 series does have it common problems too, One is the Nikki leakage due aging rubber, Second is they tend to blow head gaskets, and third is the ACR failure on the camshaft.
Blown head gaskets are easy to find if we all did a leak down test when adjusting the valves. Note when replacing a blown head gasket always check head warpage. I just did one that had over .005 warpage.
ACR failure usually causes hard starting problem. Just note that when the ACR turns loose it can take out the oil slinger/governor assy.
Repairing the float valve leakage problem is best. Most likely the OP has the Nikki carburetor which need the float bowl gasket set as the o-ring on the transfer tube usually goes bad. Ethanol has little to do with it as o-ring ages and shrinks causing the leakage. I haven't seen much problems with the Ruixing carburetor but they are fairly new to the system.
Adding a remote fuel valve only masks the problem as the problem will get so bad that engine will start to flood while running.
Now the Briggs 310000 series does have it common problems too, One is the Nikki leakage due aging rubber, Second is they tend to blow head gaskets, and third is the ACR failure on the camshaft.
Blown head gaskets are easy to find if we all did a leak down test when adjusting the valves. Note when replacing a blown head gasket always check head warpage. I just did one that had over .005 warpage.
ACR failure usually causes hard starting problem. Just note that when the ACR turns loose it can take out the oil slinger/governor assy.
#7
TylerFrankel1
i only have a few years experience in the industry but I see a failed needle/seat Nikki carburetor making a lawn tractor smoke come through like twice a week where I work.
It’s possible he blew head gasket but changing oil would not make the smoking stop if that was the case.
Of course I have also seen a failed needle/seat cause a head gasket to blow, because the cylinder gets hydro locked with gas and then when it’s cranked over the excess pressure can blow it.
TylerFrankel1
If he smells gas in his oil, then short of him putting it in there by mistake, how would it end up there? Just saying...Blown head gasket. Common thing on those Inteks. Or oil level way too high. That is definitely burning oil.
Not a carb issue at all. Not with all that smoke.
slomo
i only have a few years experience in the industry but I see a failed needle/seat Nikki carburetor making a lawn tractor smoke come through like twice a week where I work.
It’s possible he blew head gasket but changing oil would not make the smoking stop if that was the case.
Of course I have also seen a failed needle/seat cause a head gasket to blow, because the cylinder gets hydro locked with gas and then when it’s cranked over the excess pressure can blow it.
#8
TylerFrankel1
But in OP case, the oil smelling like gas and being too full before changing, and the fact that changing it solved the problem (for now), that basically guarantees his problem is needle and seat.
TylerFrankel1
Yeah unfortunately these are pretty junky engines. Camshafts love to come apart and yes head gaskets like to blow too. The Nikki carbs are a PITA. Hard to work with and fail a lot. I try and find Walboro replacements when available, or I buy aftermarket eBay carbs. No sense in spending 120 bucks on OEM when they’re leaky low quality anyway. Ethanol is known to deteriorate rubber, and the Nikki carb has that giant o-ring thingy as well as a needle seat made of rubber. I have seen what ethanol can do so I avoid it personally, whether or not it’s the sole cause of carburetor failure. Could be entirely wrong but non ethanol gas is only a bit more expensive so no harm done.I have seen engine with polluted oil (gas/oil mixed together) to smoke quite heavily. As OP mentions it was overfilled when checked and the oil change cure the smoking problem. Probably had run for nearly 10 minutes if the muffler got filled with oil.
Repairing the float valve leakage problem is best. Most likely the OP has the Nikki carburetor which need the float bowl gasket set as the o-ring on the transfer tube usually goes bad. Ethanol has little to do with it as o-ring ages and shrinks causing the leakage. I haven't seen much problems with the Ruixing carburetor but they are fairly new to the system.
Adding a remote fuel valve only masks the problem as the problem will get so bad that engine will start to flood while running.
Now the Briggs 310000 series does have it common problems too, One is the Nikki leakage due aging rubber, Second is they tend to blow head gaskets, and third is the ACR failure on the camshaft.
Blown head gaskets are easy to find if we all did a leak down test when adjusting the valves. Note when replacing a blown head gasket always check head warpage. I just did one that had over .005 warpage.
ACR failure usually causes hard starting problem. Just note that when the ACR turns loose it can take out the oil slinger/governor assy.
But in OP case, the oil smelling like gas and being too full before changing, and the fact that changing it solved the problem (for now), that basically guarantees his problem is needle and seat.
#9
StarTech
Also these do o-rings on the main jet that tends to get loose causing those inexpereince repair person to lose them easily.
As for Ethanol, carburetor cleaner is just as damaging to rubber parts. Personally I run 10% Ethanol in everything here without problems. My personal mower has been the same Nikki for over fice year since it last cleaning and was just fine last week when I took it apart for a checkup.
StarTech
Well the Nikki in my opinion a very simple to fix carburetor. And the OP engine they came with the NIkki or Ruixing depending on date code. On the particular Nikki that is shown in the IPL you can replace the needle and seat (fuel transfer tube) all day long but if you keep using the old gaskets it will continue to fail. This particular uses an op-ring on the transfer tube that tend to be the cause of fuel leakage. I rarely replace the needle on these Nikki carbs to fix a fuel leakage issue.Yeah unfortunately these are pretty junky engines. Camshafts love to come apart and yes head gaskets like to blow too. The Nikki carbs are a PITA. Hard to work with and fail a lot. I try and find Walboro replacements when available, or I buy aftermarket eBay carbs. No sense in spending 120 bucks on OEM when they’re leaky low quality anyway. Ethanol is known to deteriorate rubber, and the Nikki carb has that giant o-ring thingy as well as a needle seat made of rubber. I have seen what ethanol can do so I avoid it personally, whether or not it’s the sole cause of carburetor failure. Could be entirely wrong but non ethanol gas is only a bit more expensive so no harm done.
But in OP case, the oil smelling like gas and being too full before changing, and the fact that changing it solved the problem (for now), that basically guarantees his problem is needle and seat.
Also these do o-rings on the main jet that tends to get loose causing those inexpereince repair person to lose them easily.
As for Ethanol, carburetor cleaner is just as damaging to rubber parts. Personally I run 10% Ethanol in everything here without problems. My personal mower has been the same Nikki for over fice year since it last cleaning and was just fine last week when I took it apart for a checkup.
#10
Scrubcadet10
Now, i will say i repaired a Kohler CV15 a few weeks ago, gas dripping out of the muffler.... needle failed and drained the entire gas tank, and i don't know how, but i checked the oil, the oil level was perfect, not diluted and didn't smell of gas..
how it didn't get past the piston rings, i don't know. however i did change it out to err on the side of caution, and it needed it as it was pretty dark./old.
Scrubcadet10
generally if the needle fails while the tractor is sitting, fuel flows into the intake and combustion chamber and past the piston rings,If he smells gas in his oil, then short of him putting it in there by mistake, how would it end up there? Just saying...
Now, i will say i repaired a Kohler CV15 a few weeks ago, gas dripping out of the muffler.... needle failed and drained the entire gas tank, and i don't know how, but i checked the oil, the oil level was perfect, not diluted and didn't smell of gas..
how it didn't get past the piston rings, i don't know. however i did change it out to err on the side of caution, and it needed it as it was pretty dark./old.
#11
S
slomo
slomo
S
slomo
Shouldn't of changed the oil out. Probably had Amsoil 25,000 mile never change oil LOL. Loaded up with "extended drain interval technology".generally if the needle fails while the tractor is sitting, fuel flows into the intake and combustion chamber and past the piston rings,
Now, i will say i repaired a Kohler CV15 a few weeks ago, gas dripping out of the muffler.... needle failed and drained the entire gas tank, and i don't know how, but i checked the oil, the oil level was perfect, not diluted and didn't smell of gas..
how it didn't get past the piston rings, i don't know. however i did change it out to err on the side of caution, and it needed it as it was pretty dark./old.
slomo
#12
TylerFrankel1
The commands are actually decent motors LOL... not like those stupid "Courage" engines! I kinda wish they used the rubber seat/metal needle on these bigger carburetors like Briggs/Tecumseh used to on push mowers. They suffer from some expansion over a long period of time, but seem less prone to leaking.
TylerFrankel1
generally if the needle fails while the tractor is sitting, fuel flows into the intake and combustion chamber and past the piston rings,
Now, i will say i repaired a Kohler CV15 a few weeks ago, gas dripping out of the muffler.... needle failed and drained the entire gas tank, and i don't know how, but i checked the oil, the oil level was perfect, not diluted and didn't smell of gas..
how it didn't get past the piston rings, i don't know. however i did change it out to err on the side of caution, and it needed it as it was pretty dark./old.
The commands are actually decent motors LOL... not like those stupid "Courage" engines! I kinda wish they used the rubber seat/metal needle on these bigger carburetors like Briggs/Tecumseh used to on push mowers. They suffer from some expansion over a long period of time, but seem less prone to leaking.
#13
TylerFrankel1
The problem with ethanol is mostly it's tendency to attract moisture/draw water into gas. The water does the most damage. But ethanol isn't good for rubber either. Carburetor cleaner is hard on rubber, but you don't run your engine on carburetor cleaner day after day, year after year... it's introduced very briefly in the scheme of things. Given, you can run ethanol gasoline for years and not have issues, as it is diluted to 10%. But it's definitely not beneficial.
I agree, if I was in the carburetor I'd replace all the seals. I don't like those Nikkis because they have so many seals. The walboros manage to use just a rubber tip for the needle/seat, and then a sealing washer and gasket at the top/bottom of the carb bowl. A lot less to go wrong there...
TylerFrankel1
Well the Nikki in my opinion a very simple to fix carburetor. And the OP engine they came with the NIkki or Ruixing depending on date code. On the particular Nikki that is shown in the IPL you can replace the needle and seat (fuel transfer tube) all day long but if you keep using the old gaskets it will continue to fail. This particular uses an op-ring on the transfer tube that tend to be the cause of fuel leakage. I rarely replace the needle on these Nikki carbs to fix a fuel leakage issue.
Also these do o-rings on the main jet that tends to get loose causing those inexpereince repair person to lose them easily.
As for Ethanol, carburetor cleaner is just as damaging to rubber parts. Personally I run 10% Ethanol in everything here without problems. My personal mower has been the same Nikki for over fice year since it last cleaning and was just fine last week when I took it apart for a checkup.
The problem with ethanol is mostly it's tendency to attract moisture/draw water into gas. The water does the most damage. But ethanol isn't good for rubber either. Carburetor cleaner is hard on rubber, but you don't run your engine on carburetor cleaner day after day, year after year... it's introduced very briefly in the scheme of things. Given, you can run ethanol gasoline for years and not have issues, as it is diluted to 10%. But it's definitely not beneficial.
I agree, if I was in the carburetor I'd replace all the seals. I don't like those Nikkis because they have so many seals. The walboros manage to use just a rubber tip for the needle/seat, and then a sealing washer and gasket at the top/bottom of the carb bowl. A lot less to go wrong there...
#14
StarTech
StarTech
Hummm too many seals. Let's see.
Fuel transfer tube/bowl gasket and maybe replace the foam shaft seals. Rarely ever need a new needle valve or mounting gaskets. Since most Nikki uses a aluminum sealing washer for the fuel solenoid which rarely ever need to remove it don't replaced very often.
So basically all I need is the bowl gasket set and maybe the tiny o-ring(s) on the jet(s). On OP carburetor all I normally replace is the 698781 gasket. So no need to use the 796184 carb kit (52.30) when a 6.85 gasket does the complete job.
Fuel transfer tube/bowl gasket and maybe replace the foam shaft seals. Rarely ever need a new needle valve or mounting gaskets. Since most Nikki uses a aluminum sealing washer for the fuel solenoid which rarely ever need to remove it don't replaced very often.
So basically all I need is the bowl gasket set and maybe the tiny o-ring(s) on the jet(s). On OP carburetor all I normally replace is the 698781 gasket. So no need to use the 796184 carb kit (52.30) when a 6.85 gasket does the complete job.
#15
C
charleneje
C
charleneje
I have the problem with a leaky carb as well on a mower I changed the head gasket on it drained almost the entire tank but mainly out on the floor.
To check for the head gasket I found that taking the dipstick out while running if the head gasket is blown air mixed with oil will spray out of the dipstick tube you also get smoke coming out of the exhaust and rough running.
To check for the head gasket I found that taking the dipstick out while running if the head gasket is blown air mixed with oil will spray out of the dipstick tube you also get smoke coming out of the exhaust and rough running.
#16
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
needle failed in the carb
#17
K
Kremhaus
K
Kremhaus
I had same problem on Kohler Engine and also Briggs and Stratton. Those engines are notorious for drawing fuel into the oil crankcase when idle. Mine drew so much fuel the oil level was well over the maximum and the engine backfired constantly and was blowing oil and smoke. Install an aftermarket petcock on the fuel line and shut off after use
#18
C
cboyette2232
C
cboyette2232
watch it like a hawk now that youve run it with gasoline in the oil. It may have affected the main bearing seals etc. Mine did this and one day, it got noisy suddenly and it was all over.I put a new B&S engine (INTEK 17.5 HP - Model 31R907-0006-G1) on my Snapper riding mower 3 years ago. All running great until today when it started BLOWING SMOKE..... a lot of smoke. Pulled the oil dip stick and smelled of gas. Changed the oil and blew a small amount of smoke on first start. Second start had no smoke and runs smooth. Any advice on what's going on here. Here's a link to a You Tube 20 second video showing what's happening:
#19
R
rutbuster1
R
rutbuster1
I agree with your reply. I've put fuel cut off valves on all of my equipment and go as far as cutting the fuel valve off and letting the engine run all the fuel out of the carb till it stalls when I'm done. Since I've been doing that, I've had no carb issues whatsoever. This ethanol gas is garbage.I've seen this many times... I believe your issue is a failed needle/seat valve in the carburetor. This valve regulates gas flow into the float bowl. The needle tip is made of rubber and if it becomes at all distorted it will allow gas to flow into the carburetor and overflow it. The overflowing gas travels from the carburetor into the engine and cylinder head. It then slips past the piston rings and fills up the crankcase where the oil is with gas. That's why you smelled gas. This raises the level of oil way too high as it is diluted with gas to the point where basically a 50/50 oil gas mix is seeping into the combustion chamber and other places it doesn't belong when the engine is running. That immense amount of oil burning causes smoke. If you change the oil, voila, that gas is gone from the oil and it's back at the right level, so the smoke will stop. However, it will happen again if you don't address the carburetor. Either replace the needle/seat, replace the carburetor, or install an in-line fuel shut off valve that you shut off when you aren't using it. I'd start by using a shut-off valve and seeing if that solves the problem. Cheap, quick, easy and if that doesn't solve it no harm done. If it does work and if you're comfortable with it leave it that way. Otherwise, replace the carburetor or needle/seat.
This is probably happening because of the crappy ethanol gas we're forced to use nowadays combined with Briggs having awful QC as of late. And I imagine you may have let this thing sit with gas over the winter which can exacerbate those factors.
#20
E
enginemagician
E
enginemagician
When they fail with gas/oil mixture like they described the smoke billows out like a freight train.Blown head gasket. Common thing on those Inteks. Or oil level way too high. That is definitely burning oil.
Not a carb issue at all. Not with all that smoke.
slomo
#21
E
enginemagician
E
enginemagician
When they fail with gas/oil mixture like they described the smoke billows out like a freight train.
#22
J
Joed756
J
Joed756
Wouldn't that happen with the exhaust valve open, creating an easier path than around the rings?generally if the needle fails while the tractor is sitting, fuel flows into the intake and combustion chamber and past the piston rings,
Now, i will say i repaired a Kohler CV15 a few weeks ago, gas dripping out of the muffler.... needle failed and drained the entire gas tank, and i don't know how, but i checked the oil, the oil level was perfect, not diluted and didn't smell of gas..
how it didn't get past the piston rings, i don't know. however i did change it out to err on the side of caution, and it needed it as it was pretty dark./old.
#24
S
slomo
S
slomo
I watched the video again. No way a carb needle can do this. Smoke color was a tremendous blue/white smog.
Carb needle flooding the cylinder would be blowing black smoke, chugging all the time. Just like running it with the choke on but way more severe.
slomo
Carb needle flooding the cylinder would be blowing black smoke, chugging all the time. Just like running it with the choke on but way more severe.
slomo
#25
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
unless the needle failed and raised the oil level.
#26
B
Born2Mow
The float needle does not need to go "bad" for this to happen. There could be a bit of trash in the fuel system holding the valve open. Either way you'd get the same result.
I must type this 15 times a week.... You need to install a fuel filter to remove all the trash in your fuel. Then you need to install a manual fuel ON/OFF valve so that GRAVITY doesn't push gasoline into your engine when you're not looking. This happens all the time.
If this Board was worth a toot, there would be a directory full of these specific explanation articles so that we could simply say, "Go read number 15 and 17." And be done with it. The board would make just as much money and the customers would be better served. Apparently someone is more worried about the money than the customer service. That is extremely short-sighted.
B
Born2Mow
Correct !! But...unless the needle failed and raised the oil level.
The float needle does not need to go "bad" for this to happen. There could be a bit of trash in the fuel system holding the valve open. Either way you'd get the same result.
I must type this 15 times a week.... You need to install a fuel filter to remove all the trash in your fuel. Then you need to install a manual fuel ON/OFF valve so that GRAVITY doesn't push gasoline into your engine when you're not looking. This happens all the time.
If this Board was worth a toot, there would be a directory full of these specific explanation articles so that we could simply say, "Go read number 15 and 17." And be done with it. The board would make just as much money and the customers would be better served. Apparently someone is more worried about the money than the customer service. That is extremely short-sighted.
#27
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
Hello to all my ole friends here on the forum !~! Later from Cajun Country......
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
I agree with the people that are saying NEEDLE , Or there is some varnish / gum build up on the seat. those VITON tips on the needles are etho proof so says the company......... A combo of seat and head gasket is suspect.....I watched the video again. No way a carb needle can do this. Smoke color was a tremendous blue/white smog.
Carb needle flooding the cylinder would be blowing black smoke, chugging all the time. Just like running it with the choke on but way more severe.
slomo
Hello to all my ole friends here on the forum !~! Later from Cajun Country......
#28
R
randyjoe
R
randyjoe
It’s definitely your needle or seat, I’ve had mowers come into my shop with the same problem many timesI put a new B&S engine (INTEK 17.5 HP - Model 31R907-0006-G1) on my Snapper riding mower 3 years ago. All running great until today when it started BLOWING SMOKE..... a lot of smoke. Pulled the oil dip stick and smelled of gas. Changed the oil and blew a small amount of smoke on first start. Second start had no smoke and runs smooth. Any advice on what's going on here. Here's a link to a You Tube 20 second video showing what's happening:
#29
R
randyjoe
R
randyjoe
Be sure to check the float also, it should not have any gas in it, shake it to make sure, if gas got in you have a crack in your float which will not let it float correctly and set the needle in the seatIt’s definitely your needle or seat, I’ve had mowers come into my shop with the same problem many times
#30
F
footballfan33
F
footballfan33
Where can we purchase non-ethanol gas? Second question: Is stabilizer necessary for non-ethanol gas stored in gas cans for 1-3 months?Yeah unfortunately these are pretty junky engines. Camshafts love to come apart and yes head gaskets like to blow too. The Nikki carbs are a PITA. Hard to work with and fail a lot. I try and find Walboro replacements when available, or I buy aftermarket eBay carbs. No sense in spending 120 bucks on OEM when they’re leaky low quality anyway. Ethanol is known to deteriorate rubber, and the Nikki carb has that giant o-ring thingy as well as a needle seat made of rubber. I have seen what ethanol can do so I avoid it personally, whether or not it’s the sole cause of carburetor failure. Could be entirely wrong but non ethanol gas is only a bit more expensive so no harm done.
But in OP case, the oil smelling like gas and being too full before changing, and the fact that changing it solved the problem (for now), that basically guarantees his problem is needle and seat.
#31
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
Choose your state at the bottom of the page
www.pure-gas.org
Pure-gas.org - ethanol-free gasoline in the U.S. and Canada
Pure-gas.org is the definitive web site listing stations that sell pure gasoline in the U.S. and Canada.
#32
R
randyjoe
R
randyjoe
Any gas starts to go bad after 2-3 months stabilizer is always a good idea, on your gas question, most premium gas is ethanol free if in doubt ask the store manager. Water is a natural by product of ethanol fuel I add a little heet in the red can to help fight that problemWhere can we purchase non-ethanol gas? Second question: Is stabilizer necessary for non-ethanol gas stored in gas cans for 1-3 months?
#33
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
How long is a piece of string.
Some fuel in some places in some seasons will store for months while other will start to go off in a matter of minutes.
Microclimate is also a big factor as is relative humidity & dew points.
It is a lot more complicated than most think so there is no absolute answer to your question.
To this extent I offer this annodate .
My landlord & I live 400 yards apart.
He is on the top of an east facing hill & stores his current ride inside a big steel barn .
I am on the flood plane 30' lower than is barn & store my current ride outside on a paved area under a motorcycle cover .
We can both top up our tanks from the same servo at the same time on our way home.
If we miss the following fortnightly ride, his fuel will have gone off
Mine will be fine for just over a year .
AFAIK adding a stabilizer AT THE RECOMMENDED RATIO will do no harm even if not needed but may not work even if needed .
Some fuel in some places in some seasons will store for months while other will start to go off in a matter of minutes.
Microclimate is also a big factor as is relative humidity & dew points.
It is a lot more complicated than most think so there is no absolute answer to your question.
To this extent I offer this annodate .
My landlord & I live 400 yards apart.
He is on the top of an east facing hill & stores his current ride inside a big steel barn .
I am on the flood plane 30' lower than is barn & store my current ride outside on a paved area under a motorcycle cover .
We can both top up our tanks from the same servo at the same time on our way home.
If we miss the following fortnightly ride, his fuel will have gone off
Mine will be fine for just over a year .
AFAIK adding a stabilizer AT THE RECOMMENDED RATIO will do no harm even if not needed but may not work even if needed .
#34
B
Born2Mow
B
Born2Mow
Third Question: If there is no ethanol present, IOW only gasoline, then exactly what would the "stabilizer" be stabilizing ?Second question: Is stabilizer necessary for non-ethanol gas stored in gas cans for 1-3 months?
#35
F
footballfan33
F
footballfan33
I was wondering the same thing. But I figured it has something to do with lower octane fuels being less stable than high octane fuels.Third Question: If there is no ethanol present, IOW only gasoline, then exactly what would the "stabilizer" be stabilizing ?
#36
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Even ethanol free fuel goes off now days.
For some strange reason everyone is obsessed with ethanol.
Ethanol is the devils fluid so every fuel problem has to be caused by ethanol.
The actuality could not be further away.
Petrol used to be a distilled extract from oil, but the demand soon outstripped the supply so we worked out how to combine lighter fraction together and react lighter fraction with heavier fraction and then split up the heavier fractions to the point where you got noting from a barrel of crude other than petrol & tar .
Competition between the various brands force them to always use the cheapest processing to make what you put into your tank.
Modern petrol is no longer petrol.
It s a light fuel oil with some added volatiles so there is just enough vapours to start a cold engine.
LEave a bowl of fuel ( because it is not petrol ) out in the sun for a few minutes and it will change colour.
This is the volatiles compounds evaporating off , often called aromatics because you can smell them.
LEave it for longer and it will go very dark & start to smell like the swamp it came from .
Eventually it will turn almost black become really thick & sticky and will stay like that for months till it finally becomes tar.
40 years ago if you tipped a pile of petrol ( it was petrol back then ) into a container, like an old hub cap to wash the grease off the front wheel bearings before being repacked & replaced , if you went inside for a pee, the hubcap would be bone dry when you came back .
This should bring back memories for the over 50's on the list .
Modern cars & trucks are all computer controlled fuel injected engines and will start if there is 0.01 % ( by weight ) of volatiles in the fuel.
But your mower needs 2 % .
Old stale fuel can be used if you add some acetone or start your engine with some sort of starting fluid.
Once the engine is hot there is enough energy in the hot metal head & piston to evaporate some of the heavier fractions to provide enough vapour to start the engine .
Remember only gasses can burn so if the fuel can not vapourise then it will not burn .
And a carburettor does not vapourise the fuel, it atomises it in the hope that the increased surface area will allow enough volatiles to come out of solution to start the engine .
For some strange reason everyone is obsessed with ethanol.
Ethanol is the devils fluid so every fuel problem has to be caused by ethanol.
The actuality could not be further away.
Petrol used to be a distilled extract from oil, but the demand soon outstripped the supply so we worked out how to combine lighter fraction together and react lighter fraction with heavier fraction and then split up the heavier fractions to the point where you got noting from a barrel of crude other than petrol & tar .
Competition between the various brands force them to always use the cheapest processing to make what you put into your tank.
Modern petrol is no longer petrol.
It s a light fuel oil with some added volatiles so there is just enough vapours to start a cold engine.
LEave a bowl of fuel ( because it is not petrol ) out in the sun for a few minutes and it will change colour.
This is the volatiles compounds evaporating off , often called aromatics because you can smell them.
LEave it for longer and it will go very dark & start to smell like the swamp it came from .
Eventually it will turn almost black become really thick & sticky and will stay like that for months till it finally becomes tar.
40 years ago if you tipped a pile of petrol ( it was petrol back then ) into a container, like an old hub cap to wash the grease off the front wheel bearings before being repacked & replaced , if you went inside for a pee, the hubcap would be bone dry when you came back .
This should bring back memories for the over 50's on the list .
Modern cars & trucks are all computer controlled fuel injected engines and will start if there is 0.01 % ( by weight ) of volatiles in the fuel.
But your mower needs 2 % .
Old stale fuel can be used if you add some acetone or start your engine with some sort of starting fluid.
Once the engine is hot there is enough energy in the hot metal head & piston to evaporate some of the heavier fractions to provide enough vapour to start the engine .
Remember only gasses can burn so if the fuel can not vapourise then it will not burn .
And a carburettor does not vapourise the fuel, it atomises it in the hope that the increased surface area will allow enough volatiles to come out of solution to start the engine .
#38
F
footballfan33
F
footballfan33
I specifically mentioned the ethanol because I saw a lead mechanic for a large ranch giving a talk on small engines. He stated the "old" ethanol "gums up" and causes thing to not run great. I don't necessarily view it as a boogeyman, as much as I do a potential cause of fuel system issues.Even ethanol free fuel goes off now days.
For some strange reason everyone is obsessed with ethanol.
Ethanol is the devils fluid so every fuel problem has to be caused by ethanol.
The actuality could not be further away.
Petrol used to be a distilled extract from oil, but the demand soon outstripped the supply so we worked out how to combine lighter fraction together and react lighter fraction with heavier fraction and then split up the heavier fractions to the point where you got noting from a barrel of crude other than petrol & tar .
Competition between the various brands force them to always use the cheapest processing to make what you put into your tank.
Modern petrol is no longer petrol.
It s a light fuel oil with some added volatiles so there is just enough vapours to start a cold engine.
LEave a bowl of fuel ( because it is not petrol ) out in the sun for a few minutes and it will change colour.
This is the volatiles compounds evaporating off , often called aromatics because you can smell them.
LEave it for longer and it will go very dark & start to smell like the swamp it came from .
Eventually it will turn almost black become really thick & sticky and will stay like that for months till it finally becomes tar.
40 years ago if you tipped a pile of petrol ( it was petrol back then ) into a container, like an old hub cap to wash the grease off the front wheel bearings before being repacked & replaced , if you went inside for a pee, the hubcap would be bone dry when you came back .
This should bring back memories for the over 50's on the list .
Modern cars & trucks are all computer controlled fuel injected engines and will start if there is 0.01 % ( by weight ) of volatiles in the fuel.
But your mower needs 2 % .
Old stale fuel can be used if you add some acetone or start your engine with some sort of starting fluid.
Once the engine is hot there is enough energy in the hot metal head & piston to evaporate some of the heavier fractions to provide enough vapour to start the engine .
Remember only gasses can burn so if the fuel can not vapourise then it will not burn .
And a carburettor does not vapourise the fuel, it atomises it in the hope that the increased surface area will allow enough volatiles to come out of solution to start the engine .
#39
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Ethanol is fine in engines that are used very regularly like your car .
It is not fine for engines that are used infrequently
Before ethanol was introduced carbs on things like blowers & line trimmers got clogged up because unleaded is not petrol as I explained .
Now the fact that the "benefits" of ethanol are 100% bull does make me angry as I hate being lied to and I really hate governments lieing to the population en mass.
Ethanol was added to fuel for one reason & one reason alone , to reduce the amount of crude being imported from the Middle East .
The fact that it was a bonanza for corn growers & distillers so carried a couple of senate seats was a double bonus for the GOVERNMENT .
Down here there is only one distillery and funny enough it is owned by a relative of the longest serving conservative prime minister we have had in receint years .
Even more smelly is the states with conservative government strictly enforce the "you must sell E10 rule " to the point they monitor fuel stations and fine the operators if they sell more plain unleaded than E10 , the Labour states don't do it .
I hate E anything firstly because it cost me more in the long run and does less than nothing for the environment but writing a great long spiel about the sins of E10 will not help fix any problem .
What does work is tipping out the old fuel & running the whatever dry when you have finished using it. and that applies to what ever fuel was in the tank
It is not fine for engines that are used infrequently
Before ethanol was introduced carbs on things like blowers & line trimmers got clogged up because unleaded is not petrol as I explained .
Now the fact that the "benefits" of ethanol are 100% bull does make me angry as I hate being lied to and I really hate governments lieing to the population en mass.
Ethanol was added to fuel for one reason & one reason alone , to reduce the amount of crude being imported from the Middle East .
The fact that it was a bonanza for corn growers & distillers so carried a couple of senate seats was a double bonus for the GOVERNMENT .
Down here there is only one distillery and funny enough it is owned by a relative of the longest serving conservative prime minister we have had in receint years .
Even more smelly is the states with conservative government strictly enforce the "you must sell E10 rule " to the point they monitor fuel stations and fine the operators if they sell more plain unleaded than E10 , the Labour states don't do it .
I hate E anything firstly because it cost me more in the long run and does less than nothing for the environment but writing a great long spiel about the sins of E10 will not help fix any problem .
What does work is tipping out the old fuel & running the whatever dry when you have finished using it. and that applies to what ever fuel was in the tank