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Briggs and Stratton Small Engine Questions
#1
S
Skyharbor106
S
Skyharbor106
I have a small 158cc B&S engine that came with a 2006 Bolens push mower. The manual has some instructions how to clean the foam air filter. It says to clean with dish detergent, squeeze dry and then soak, saturate with motor oil. To me that seems counterproductive. Why would I clean the filter with soapy water and then saturate with motor oil? It does say in the manual that if you don't saturate the filter, engine damage can occur. To be honest, I have never done this step and the engine runs fine. What is the purpose of the oil bath?
Also, this engine does not have a visible fuel filter. Can a small engine like this just not have a fuel filter?
Thanks for your help.
Also, this engine does not have a visible fuel filter. Can a small engine like this just not have a fuel filter?
Thanks for your help.
#2
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Your air filter is reusable, which means you can clean it with dish soap. After drying the oil which you put in it will help trap dirt particles. Not adding oil will allow the dirt to go straight through the filter into the engine. Fuel filters were not used on these engines, if you want to add one it’s your money but don’t need it.
#3
S
Skyharbor106
S
Skyharbor106
Thanks. My local B&S dealer said it was "6 of one, half dozen of another" if I oil or not. I use this mower as a trim mower that the zero turn can't get, so does not get a lot of use. I understand now the purpose of the oil bath; makes sense. But have never had a gas engine that did not have a fuel filter. I hesitate to add one fearing a constriction since the engine was not built for it. Thanks for your quick reply. Most appreciated.Your air filter is reusable, which means you can clean it with dish soap. After drying the oil which you put in it will help trap dirt particles. Not adding oil will allow the dirt to go straight through the filter into the engine. Fuel filters were not used on these engines, if you want to add one it’s your money but don’t need it.
#4
I
ILENGINE
I
ILENGINE
A when they say saturate it doesn't mean leave it dripping with oil. You need to squeeze out the excess. Should only take a tablespoon or two of oil.
#5
S
Skyharbor106
S
Skyharbor106
good tip, thanks.A when they say saturate it doesn't mean leave it dripping with oil. You need to squeeze out the excess. Should only take a tablespoon or two of oil.
#6
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
FWIW
the holes in a foam filter are around 10000 times bigger than those in a paper filter.
So the filter needs some thing to take out the dust that is finer than the holes in the filter.
The holes do not go strait through they zig zag all over the place forcing the air to dart back & forth.
Because air has less weight than dust, when it goes through a tight bend it is VIRTUALLY ( for the pedants ) unaffected.
The dust will try to go strait ahead and hit the sides of the hole
If the sides are uncoated then the dust just bounces off and continues into your engine
If the sides of the hole are coated with sticky filter oil then they get stuck and stay in the filter.
There are 2 big problems with this
1) once the holes are fully dust coated the dust can then proceed through
2) gravity drags the oil to the bottom where the oil , holds big items like small grass clippings which tends to clog the filter.
Filters on the side of any push mower is a DUMB idea, designed to generate a lot of maintenance and if not done shorten the working life of the engine.
Unless you want to modify your engine to take a snorkel then you are stuck with regularly oiling & washing the filter.
Now a couple of points
1) hair shampoo works a lot better than dishwashing soap to clean the filter
2) air filter cleaners work better than shampoo
3) filter oil works a better than engine oil as it is a lot stickier
4) no need to saturate the filter
I simply put a thin coating of filter oil from a bottle , not a spray can on the top only of the filter .
Usually I apply it with my finger and if you don't overdo it the oil will go about 1/2 way down the foam
This then allows the plain foam to filter out the big bits ( bigger than the hole size ) at the intake and the oil to trap the finer bits inside the filter .
Most of the engines fitted with these filters all into one of two camps
Excessive carbon build up because the filter has been clogged for the past dozen seasons or worn bores because the filter has been allowing dust to enter the engines .
the holes in a foam filter are around 10000 times bigger than those in a paper filter.
So the filter needs some thing to take out the dust that is finer than the holes in the filter.
The holes do not go strait through they zig zag all over the place forcing the air to dart back & forth.
Because air has less weight than dust, when it goes through a tight bend it is VIRTUALLY ( for the pedants ) unaffected.
The dust will try to go strait ahead and hit the sides of the hole
If the sides are uncoated then the dust just bounces off and continues into your engine
If the sides of the hole are coated with sticky filter oil then they get stuck and stay in the filter.
There are 2 big problems with this
1) once the holes are fully dust coated the dust can then proceed through
2) gravity drags the oil to the bottom where the oil , holds big items like small grass clippings which tends to clog the filter.
Filters on the side of any push mower is a DUMB idea, designed to generate a lot of maintenance and if not done shorten the working life of the engine.
Unless you want to modify your engine to take a snorkel then you are stuck with regularly oiling & washing the filter.
Now a couple of points
1) hair shampoo works a lot better than dishwashing soap to clean the filter
2) air filter cleaners work better than shampoo
3) filter oil works a better than engine oil as it is a lot stickier
4) no need to saturate the filter
I simply put a thin coating of filter oil from a bottle , not a spray can on the top only of the filter .
Usually I apply it with my finger and if you don't overdo it the oil will go about 1/2 way down the foam
This then allows the plain foam to filter out the big bits ( bigger than the hole size ) at the intake and the oil to trap the finer bits inside the filter .
Most of the engines fitted with these filters all into one of two camps
Excessive carbon build up because the filter has been clogged for the past dozen seasons or worn bores because the filter has been allowing dust to enter the engines .
#7
S
Skyharbor106
In your reply #3, you say that "filter oil works a better than engine oil as it is a lot stickier". I did not know there was a specific oil for filters. Do places like Auto Zone etc have such oil? I would have used clean engine oil like the manual mentions.
Thanks again.
George
S
Skyharbor106
Wow, first off, thanks for a very concise, well thought out response. Very much appreciated. I see better now why the filter should be oiled, but lightly. The manual clearly says "saturate" so I would have dunked it in bucket of some sort. I understand that it does not need to be drenched.FWIW
the holes in a foam filter are around 10000 times bigger than those in a paper filter.
So the filter needs some thing to take out the dust that is finer than the holes in the filter.
The holes do not go strait through they zig zag all over the place forcing the air to dart back & forth.
Because air has less weight than dust, when it goes through a tight bend it is VIRTUALLY ( for the pedants ) unaffected.
The dust will try to go strait ahead and hit the sides of the hole
If the sides are uncoated then the dust just bounces off and continues into your engine
If the sides of the hole are coated with sticky filter oil then they get stuck and stay in the filter.
There are 2 big problems with this
1) once the holes are fully dust coated the dust can then proceed through
2) gravity drags the oil to the bottom where the oil , holds big items like small grass clippings which tends to clog the filter.
Filters on the side of any push mower is a DUMB idea, designed to generate a lot of maintenance and if not done shorten the working life of the engine.
Unless you want to modify your engine to take a snorkel then you are stuck with regularly oiling & washing the filter.
Now a couple of points
1) hair shampoo works a lot better than dishwashing soap to clean the filter
2) air filter cleaners work better than shampoo
3) filter oil works a better than engine oil as it is a lot stickier
4) no need to saturate the filter
I simply put a thin coating of filter oil from a bottle , not a spray can on the top only of the filter .
Usually I apply it with my finger and if you don't overdo it the oil will go about 1/2 way down the foam
This then allows the plain foam to filter out the big bits ( bigger than the hole size ) at the intake and the oil to trap the finer bits inside the filter .
Most of the engines fitted with these filters all into one of two camps
Excessive carbon build up because the filter has been clogged for the past dozen seasons or worn bores because the filter has been allowing dust to enter the engines .
In your reply #3, you say that "filter oil works a better than engine oil as it is a lot stickier". I did not know there was a specific oil for filters. Do places like Auto Zone etc have such oil? I would have used clean engine oil like the manual mentions.
Thanks again.
George
#8
S
Skyharbor106
S
Skyharbor106
I did not know about the PJ1 brand of filter oil. I think this mower is only one I own that requires oil in foam filter. Thanks for the great tips. This seems to be a great forum. Some of them that I belong to have some condescending respondents, scolding us like, "you did not know that?" The whole purpose of the Forum to me is to learn and share information. Your information was well thought out and presented in a helpful way. Thanks!Wow, first off, thanks for a very concise, well thought out response. Very much appreciated. I see better now why the filter should be oiled, but lightly. The manual clearly says "saturate" so I would have dunked it in bucket of some sort. I understand that it does not need to be drenched.
In your reply #3, you say that "filter oil works a better than engine oil as it is a lot stickier". I did not know there was a specific oil for filters. Do places like Auto Zone etc have such oil? I would have used clean engine oil like the manual mentions.
Thanks again.
George
#9
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
PJ 1 will work fine
Get the plain bottle not the spray pack
Engine oil is no where near as good as filter oil is as a finger & thumb pinch test will reveal .
Buy a spare filter so you will always have a spare ready to fit rather having to hurry a quick clean at 11 am so you can get the lawns done before the mother in law turns up to "inspect the barracks" at midday .
Motorcycle shops & boat shops will carry a few brands of filter oil
Prime Line , Stens & Rotary all do filter oil for sale at mower shops & I would be amazed if B & S did not have one as well.
Get the plain bottle not the spray pack
Engine oil is no where near as good as filter oil is as a finger & thumb pinch test will reveal .
Buy a spare filter so you will always have a spare ready to fit rather having to hurry a quick clean at 11 am so you can get the lawns done before the mother in law turns up to "inspect the barracks" at midday .
Motorcycle shops & boat shops will carry a few brands of filter oil
Prime Line , Stens & Rotary all do filter oil for sale at mower shops & I would be amazed if B & S did not have one as well.
#10
S
Skyharbor106
S
Skyharbor106
Thanks. I already got some new filters.PJ 1 will work fine
Get the plain bottle not the spray pack
Engine oil is no where near as good as filter oil is as a finger & thumb pinch test will reveal .
Buy a spare filter so you will always have a spare ready to fit rather having to hurry a quick clean at 11 am so you can get the lawns done before the mother in law turns up to "inspect the barracks" at midday .
Motorcycle shops & boat shops will carry a few brands of filter oil
Prime Line , Stens & Rotary all do filter oil for sale at mower shops & I would be amazed if B & S did not have one as well.
#12
S
Skyharbor106
S
Skyharbor106
Wow, thanks so much! Had no idea there would be a tutorial on such a minor maintenance item. Appreciate it! George
#13
H
hlw49
H
hlw49
Do you think bar and chain oil would be a decent substitute. I have though about several times but never did try it.
#15
N
nbpt100
N
nbpt100
Briggs and Stratton suggests motor oil. That is all I have ever used. From what I have seen it is dirt bikes and boats that suggest the special filter oil. Not that others don't, I am sure someone will chime in with other manufacturers that suggest it. I would not over think it. Unless it keeps you up at night, just use what ever motor oil you have around the house. I am sure bar oil will be fine too. It is suppose to be a bit more tacky. I have it on hand but I want to save it for my chain saw. I often use 10w40 or 20w-50 for filters because I have some partially open bottles hanging around it is doubtfull I will use them for anything else other than an external lube. Good questions and good luck!
#16
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Bar oil will not allow the air to pass through the filter properly and may cause a rich running condition.
#17
N
nbpt100
N
nbpt100
That is a good point rivets. I guess you can experiment and check the spark plug after running for a little bit. To your same point, would air filter oil do the same where is is not specifically specified? I dont have direct experience with air filter oil. I do with bar oil and I bet you would be fine but I do not really know. It is worth the check to make sure. With either.Bar oil will not allow the air to pass through the filter properly and may cause a rich running condition.
#18
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
If you have no air filter oil any engine lubricating oil will work fine. I’ve always used SAE30 or 10W-30. Remember what IL posted, DO NOT SATURATED, use a teaspoon or two and squeeze out the excess.
#19
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
FWIW
I lay the clean filter down, upside down so carb side is facing up
I dip my finger in the FILTER OIL then run my wet finger over the filter surface till the filter changes colour .
When there is a shallow layer of oil on the filter I let it sit foe an hour or more to allow gravity to drag the oil down into the filter.
Then it gets fitted to the mower
I lay the clean filter down, upside down so carb side is facing up
I dip my finger in the FILTER OIL then run my wet finger over the filter surface till the filter changes colour .
When there is a shallow layer of oil on the filter I let it sit foe an hour or more to allow gravity to drag the oil down into the filter.
Then it gets fitted to the mower
#20
T
Tbone0106
T
Tbone0106
The lack of a fuel filter is intentional. Your mower's fuel tank is probably only an inch or two above its carburetor. It's a gravity feed system, and a filter would very likely slow fuel feed enough to starve the engine.
#21
T
Tbone0106
T
Tbone0106
It does not matter what sort of oil you use. The purpose of the oil is merely to provide a surface for dust particles to stick to. You could use gearcase oil, chainsaw bar oil, 10W-40 Pennzoil, or the crap you drained out of your truck last Wednesday.
The folks who want to sell you "special" air filter oil are the same folks who have been lying to you for years, telling you that your engine just simply MUST have an oil change every 3,000 miles. It shouldn't surprise you to learn that these nice folks are OIL COMPANIES.
The folks who want to sell you "special" air filter oil are the same folks who have been lying to you for years, telling you that your engine just simply MUST have an oil change every 3,000 miles. It shouldn't surprise you to learn that these nice folks are OIL COMPANIES.
#22
N
nbpt100
N
nbpt100
I believe the 158cc engine the OP has uses a diaphragm type carb that sits on top of the gas tank. It uses vacuum to pull the gas into the carb bowl that is made into the top of the tank. Its an Old design been used for decades. There is no gas filter. Just a screen on the gas pick up. The OP can correct me if it is not the type of engine he has. Maybe I will learn something new. But to your point. I do not like to put gas filters on most push mowers for the reason you say. They usually have a screen filter in the tank anyway. That is good enough.The lack of a fuel filter is intentional. Your mower's fuel tank is probably only an inch or two above its carburetor. It's a gravity feed system, and a filter would very likely slow fuel feed enough to starve the engine.
#23
B
bertsmobile1
filter oil is nothing like engine or gearbox oil apart from a common starting point.
Conspiracey theories belong on places for the brain dead like Face Book.
As for oil, you can not change it enough if you really want to protect your engine.
Leaving it in there till it is "worn out" is not a good idea and considering the difference in cost between a couple of litres of oil and any engine work, a false economy for fools .
And FWIW back in the late 60's early 70's I worked with the team who pioneered X-Ray diffraction analysis of oil in helicopter engines which eventually overtook gas chromotography which became SOP during WW II
The latter gives you to total amount of metals in the oil
The former identifies the individual alloys so you know how much is piston ring, cam gear, cylinder walls etc .
And oils go off over time let alone engine hours .
B
bertsmobile1
Actually it does make a very big differenceIt does not matter what sort of oil you use. The purpose of the oil is merely to provide a surface for dust particles to stick to. You could use gearcase oil, chainsaw bar oil, 10W-40 Pennzoil, or the crap you drained out of your truck last Wednesday.
The folks who want to sell you "special" air filter oil are the same folks who have been lying to you for years, telling you that your engine just simply MUST have an oil change every 3,000 miles. It shouldn't surprise you to learn that these nice folks are OIL COMPANIES.
filter oil is nothing like engine or gearbox oil apart from a common starting point.
Conspiracey theories belong on places for the brain dead like Face Book.
As for oil, you can not change it enough if you really want to protect your engine.
Leaving it in there till it is "worn out" is not a good idea and considering the difference in cost between a couple of litres of oil and any engine work, a false economy for fools .
And FWIW back in the late 60's early 70's I worked with the team who pioneered X-Ray diffraction analysis of oil in helicopter engines which eventually overtook gas chromotography which became SOP during WW II
The latter gives you to total amount of metals in the oil
The former identifies the individual alloys so you know how much is piston ring, cam gear, cylinder walls etc .
And oils go off over time let alone engine hours .
#24
T
Tbone0106
Few of us share you experience with helicopter engine oils. Few of us have the slightest need for that knowledge.
When I was growing up -- probably about the same time you were growing up -- there was none of this "change your oil ever 3,000 miles" bullshit. Even to this day, no car manufacturer recommends changing the engine oil every 3,000 miles, or even twice that.
However, good advertising requires getting people worked up over something or other, and the oil companies have latched onto this "every 3,000 miles" mantra as a way to sell their stuff.
It literally makes no difference what sort of oil you use to soak a foam air filter with. It isn't there to lubricate anything. As long as it remains in the foam and catches the dust particles, it's doing its job, whether it's premium-priced air filter oil or mineral oil from Walmart.
T
Tbone0106
Actually it does make a very big difference
filter oil is nothing like engine or gearbox oil apart from a common starting point.
Conspiracey theories belong on places for the brain dead like Face Book.
As for oil, you can not change it enough if you really want to protect your engine.
Leaving it in there till it is "worn out" is not a good idea and considering the difference in cost between a couple of litres of oil and any engine work, a false economy for fools .
And FWIW back in the late 60's early 70's I worked with the team who pioneered X-Ray diffraction analysis of oil in helicopter engines which eventually overtook gas chromotography which became SOP during WW II
The latter gives you to total amount of metals in the oil
The former identifies the individual alloys so you know how much is piston ring, cam gear, cylinder walls etc .
And oils go off over time let alone engine hours .
Few of us share you experience with helicopter engine oils. Few of us have the slightest need for that knowledge.
When I was growing up -- probably about the same time you were growing up -- there was none of this "change your oil ever 3,000 miles" bullshit. Even to this day, no car manufacturer recommends changing the engine oil every 3,000 miles, or even twice that.
However, good advertising requires getting people worked up over something or other, and the oil companies have latched onto this "every 3,000 miles" mantra as a way to sell their stuff.
It literally makes no difference what sort of oil you use to soak a foam air filter with. It isn't there to lubricate anything. As long as it remains in the foam and catches the dust particles, it's doing its job, whether it's premium-priced air filter oil or mineral oil from Walmart.
#25
B
bertsmobile1
And yes engine oil works, old kitchen oil works , Wd40 would probably work, but filter oil works BETTER and washes out BETTER and has less effect on the life of the foam so it is better .
And if you are going to make an informed decision upon oil change intervals then you do need that knowledge or at very least an understanding of engine wear and oil degregation otherwise you are just shooting in the dark at a target you can not see with a weapon you don't know how to use.
and FWIW I taught oil, lubricants, greases & cutting fluids to TAFE students for near a decade
Engines of yesteryear were grossly over engineered because running engines on test beds till failure is very expensive and the testing is even more expensive compared to making the blocks 1/2" thicker & pistons 4 times the weight of modern pistons.
Modern engines are substantially under engineered to last a finite time and be just good enough to do the job which is why they are lighter .
Oil change intervals are determined by running the engines on test beds and analysing the oil & exhausts , plotting contaminants & break down against operating hours.
Every curve that results will have a point of inflection and for aircraft, the lowest hour POI becomes the oil change interval
For cars it is the most common POI that is the interval
Now the down side of that is no one ever runs their engines exactly the same as the test bed engines so the change interval is an extrapolation of the results designed to ensure the engine makers do not end up with a pile of warranty claims ( hopefully ) .
Now if that means that you end up changing the oil before it is totally worn out then yes THEY ARE OUT TO GET YOU .
So you don't know the theory , you don't have the knowledge yet you can state without fear of correction that the intervals are all BS
That is an interesting mind set you have there
B
bertsmobile1
Done the testing and yes it does make a difference .Few of us share you experience with helicopter engine oils. Few of us have the slightest need for that knowledge.
When I was growing up -- probably about the same time you were growing up -- there was none of this "change your oil ever 3,000 miles" bullshit. Even to this day, no car manufacturer recommends changing the engine oil every 3,000 miles, or even twice that.
However, good advertising requires getting people worked up over something or other, and the oil companies have latched onto this "every 3,000 miles" mantra as a way to sell their stuff.
It literally makes no difference what sort of oil you use to soak a foam air filter with. It isn't there to lubricate anything. As long as it remains in the foam and catches the dust particles, it's doing its job, whether it's premium-priced air filter oil or mineral oil from Walmart.
And yes engine oil works, old kitchen oil works , Wd40 would probably work, but filter oil works BETTER and washes out BETTER and has less effect on the life of the foam so it is better .
And if you are going to make an informed decision upon oil change intervals then you do need that knowledge or at very least an understanding of engine wear and oil degregation otherwise you are just shooting in the dark at a target you can not see with a weapon you don't know how to use.
and FWIW I taught oil, lubricants, greases & cutting fluids to TAFE students for near a decade
Engines of yesteryear were grossly over engineered because running engines on test beds till failure is very expensive and the testing is even more expensive compared to making the blocks 1/2" thicker & pistons 4 times the weight of modern pistons.
Modern engines are substantially under engineered to last a finite time and be just good enough to do the job which is why they are lighter .
Oil change intervals are determined by running the engines on test beds and analysing the oil & exhausts , plotting contaminants & break down against operating hours.
Every curve that results will have a point of inflection and for aircraft, the lowest hour POI becomes the oil change interval
For cars it is the most common POI that is the interval
Now the down side of that is no one ever runs their engines exactly the same as the test bed engines so the change interval is an extrapolation of the results designed to ensure the engine makers do not end up with a pile of warranty claims ( hopefully ) .
Now if that means that you end up changing the oil before it is totally worn out then yes THEY ARE OUT TO GET YOU .
So you don't know the theory , you don't have the knowledge yet you can state without fear of correction that the intervals are all BS
That is an interesting mind set you have there
#26
N
nbpt100
N
nbpt100
I trust Skyharbor has gotten all his questions answered? If not? Maybe he can start a new thread with a new question statement.