Briggs and Stratton Intek 1450

[Kurtis D. Davis]

Thanks for the input, motoman. My point is, Briggs & Stratton spelled out the cleaning process in particular detail, and it was followed to the letter. They call the pull rope and related sheet metal a "finger guard", and it is highlighted in diagram #19, page 4. There is not one mention that it need be removed, so as to clean this area, and I ran my old engine for 20 years without ever removing and cleaning the finger guard. I'll take the service dealer's word for the fact that the thing was clogged---I have not seen it, and don't think it could be all that bad. I don't think the interior of that area being clogged would account for the overheat---I think there was problem with the valve adjustment, and after about 12 hours, the engine failed. The air filter and all exterior cooling fins were totally clean, especially all little nooks and crannies on the exterior of the engine.

If the matter goes to small claims, I will definitely be asking for punitive damage. You're right---I could be mowing. And I don't mow for appearance, but rather managing extreme fire hazard. In my area, there is no fire department to call, and in times past I've seen an 8' high wall of fire send 15' cedars up in fireballs. Bad news is, it's starting to dry out, and I'm surrounded by 5' johnson grass, and no engine.

 

[motoman]

kurtis, I hear you on the fire angst...Lived in So Cal for years and wind blown grass and shrub fires are truly scary. You need a field mower (PTO haul behind)? Or perhaps a hay mower like relatives used in Kansas years ago to mow alf alfa? motoman

 

[Kurtis D. Davis]

What I need most is my walk behind. I have numerous areas which are impractical to mow with anything else. I became aware of the DR walk behind about 20 years ago, by watching an "infomercial". I was familiar with the old yazoo brand of mower, and thought it over, and took a chance. I actually ordered the DR without ever seeing one, and fortunately it proved to be exactly what the vendor said it was. Over the years, it has broken down numerous times---last year the engine threw the rod and was replaced with the intek 1450. Upon first use, the blade spindle spun a bearing, and I broke the threaded end of the shaft while trying to replace the bearing. On that basis I spent many hours designing, constructing, and installing a custom blade spindle, and everything was working fine---the old DR was doing better than new from the vendor. But then the Intek 1450 ruined after only 12 hours of use---maybe some less than that.

I think the DR will be down for the season, because I don't expect to get another 1450. I'll research and decide upon a new replacement engine, and I figure that will take a long time.

Meanwhile I'll do best I can with an old Ford 9-N and 4 foot brush hog, a regular lawn mower, and fervent prayers to the Almighty---I also have many buckets of water setting around.

I should add that the decision to void warranty is under review---that's my right as per the warranty---so even after 45 days the issue is still not decided.

 

[Kurtis D. Davis]

Update-Intek 1450 warranty Claim Here's some more thoughts derived from the Briggs & Stratton manual, which relate to the authorized service dealer voiding my warranty. The manual specifically defines the proper procedure for cleaning the air cooling system on pages 4,8,9,&10. Page 4 actually provides diagram which emphasizes a "finger guard", which contains the rewind starter, and keeps the operator's hand clear of the rotating fly wheel---hence the term "finger guard". The cleaning procedure specifically states that the "finger guard" must be kept clean, among other areas. There is no mention or authorization for removing the finger guard, and directions indicate only the outside need be cleaned. Cleaning instructions do not require cleaning the area of the fly wheel. However, removal of the "finger guard" exposes the fly wheel, and the warranty says that failure to clean around the fly wheel voids the warranty.

I ran my old Briggs & Stratton engine for 20 years without ever removing the "finger guard"---same machine and exact same conditions. However, it is possible to note that the old "finger guard" is different in design, so that it offers a better filtering process which apparently prevented clogging the fly wheel area with debri.

My thought is that the warranty should be valid, because instructions about cleaning the air cooling system are incomplete at best, and the new "finger guard" is inferior due to poor design.

I also think the engine overheat problem was caused by valves which were out of adjustment, as happened new from the factory, and became progressively worse during the break in process.

If you had a new engine under warranty, would you risk doing things to the engine which are not called for, or authorized by the official manual?
If Briggs and Stratton requires cleaning around the fly wheel, do you think they should specifically state that requirement, in the official instructions for how to properly clean the air cooling system? (please be reminded official instructions are posted this forum)

 

[motoman]

Kurtis, well seems like you have prepared your case. I would like to watch as the judge hears your evidence. The only two small claim procedures I had were "no show" default by an insurance company. Who will show for Briggs? Be sure to tell the forum how you make out.


PS Send me the Briggs PN of the spark plug boot so I can get one and cook it slowly to observe temp at "wrinkle heat." motoman

 

[Kurtis D. Davis]

Thanks motoman---I'll try to get the part number, but it may take a while. Meanwhile, I've tried to supply a picture of my old "finger guard" (red one to left), which ran for 20 years. You can see there is a chrome, circular feature which essentially serves as an air filter. So with this type "finger guard", apparently the fly wheel can't suck in nearly so much debri. That is why I say the "finger guard" on the Intek 1450 is inferior design (Intek 1450 is right-black). I still maintain the instruction manual was followed to the letter. I can see based on how manual instructions/warranty info. works, the service dealer could void just about any warranty claim. That is because Briggs & Stratton uses trickery in establishing their cleaning instructions, and probably every engine ever used has a least some debri build up---so they can always say "Warranty voided because you failed to clean the fly wheel, and overheated the engine".

I might also add that the engine manual does not prohibit use of the engine for a lawn mower; it does provide a list of forbidden applications, but lawnmowers are not on the list. Therefore it is implied that the Intek 1450 can be used, as is, on a lawnmower. That being said, it's Briggs and Stratton's responsibility to provide and adequate "finger guard", and they failed to do so, or even mention the need.

I still maintain the valves were out of adjustment from day one, and the condition grew progressively worse throughout the break in. That caused the engine to run hot, and it eventually began to backfire and would not start.

Good 'ol Briggs and Stratton---sure as hell don't make 'em like they used to.

 

[possum]

You are right. Some trickery is involved in engine warranties. A read through the manual shows some lawyer talk converted to plain talk and that is pretty much just double talk. Oil change intervals, air filter cleaning intervals, filter brands, and operating conditions are all double talked to the point of the engine maker can get out of most claims except for obvious parts or workmanship failures. Even those sometimes are put off or denied until an obvious problem is ironed out. Good example is Briggs famous worthless spark plugs last year. If you call on those the rep will just say you have the wrong plug, and quote you the right plug and offer to sell you one. A few people got a free plug last year but no one around here unless you bought the mower from Lowes. My dealer did not even know the plug existed. Obvious bad parts or workmanship that get covered after about a 30 day wait around here is the Kohler Courage singles shucking the balancers through the block. My dealer got so upset over one of those he stopped stocking a popular riding mower and ordered a more expensive one with a Briggs on it. Engine makers are well insulated from the customers. Its very hard to deal direct with them. The one thing I would suspect is does your storage area have mice and pack rats? Those critters can pack an engine full in no time. The Kohler courage singles are famous for that as well. But to be fair to Kohler the book does tell you to pull the cover and clean the flywheel and they make it so anyone can do it.

 

[Kurtis D. Davis]

Thanks Possum. I'm glad to know about what Kohler says about cleaning the fly wheel. I know exactly what you mean about rats and mice---I keep my machine stored in a good tight shop with concrete floor, and check for rats often. I also spray diesel all around (in corners, under shelves, etc.)

I've been thinking about the Briggs and Stratton warranty, and the way the thing is set up, I believe the cleaning of the fly wheel is a "catch all" which will allow them to void just about any warranty claim made. Over the years, I have removed at least two dozen "finger guards" from B&S engines, and everyone of them had debri packed in around the fly wheel, and none of them failed because of it. In this regard, I was repairing rewind starters on garden tillers, riding lawnmowers, etc.

To be fair about it, there's still a chance the warranty will be honored. The warranty allows me to request review of the service dealer's decision, and I have done so. I pointed out that cleaning instructions do not specify cleaning the fly wheel, or state that the "finger guard" can be removed by the owner while the engine is under warranty. It simply makes no sense to me to begin pulling sheet metal off the engine block to clean the fly wheel, especially because the cleaning instructions do not call for it. (Exact cleaning instructions are posted earlier in this thread.)
I appreciate what you say about translating legalese into plain language, and arriving at double talk. That's not a good game to play, and I think it just might backfire on B&S--- same way my engine started backfiring. We'll see how it works out.

 

[motoman]

What I need most is my walk behind. I have numerous areas which are impractical to mow with anything else. I became aware of the DR walk behind about 20 years ago, by watching an "infomercial". I was familiar with the old yazoo brand of mower, and thought it over, and took a chance. I actually ordered the DR without ever seeing one, and fortunately it proved to be exactly what the vendor said it was. Over the years, it has broken down numerous times---last year the engine threw the rod and was replaced with the intek 1450. Upon first use, the blade spindle spun a bearing, and I broke the threaded end of the shaft while trying to replace the bearing. On that basis I spent many hours designing, constructing, and installing a custom blade spindle, and everything was working fine---the old DR was doing better than new from the vendor. But then the Intek 1450 ruined after only 12 hours of use---maybe some less than that.

I think the DR will be down for the season, because I don't expect to get another 1450. I'll research and decide upon a new replacement engine, and I figure that will take a long time.

Meanwhile I'll do best I can with an old Ford 9-N and 4 foot brush hog, a regular lawn mower, and fervent prayers to the Almighty---I also have many buckets of water setting around.

I should add that the decision to void warranty is under review---that's my right as per the warranty---so even after 45 days the issue is still not decided.

Kurtis, I just remembered a post within the last 6 months where a member was looking to replace a 1 cylinder motor and choked on the cost of the US brand @ $800 if I remember correctly. He ran accross a (get ready) Harbor Freight engine for ? $200$ and also looked at the replacement warranty. I think he concluded he would try one with warranty. His decision was based upon a life and failure at year 2 where the low cost of the engine/warranty always kept him in business. I don't know how/if that worked out. Sooner or later the Chinese will get as good as the Japanese. Just a thought.

 

[Kurtis D. Davis]

Well motoman, we'll see how it works out. This whole thing is going to be time consuming any which way I go. First thing is to finalize the warranty review---I figure they're going to send some short letter and inform the decision is final, and come pick up my engine. However, they could call up and say they've decided to replace the engine---which I would probably go for. I suspect they were going to deny all along, and had I not gone this past monday and retrieved my machine, I think they would have attempted to charge me a bench fee for disassembling the Intek---pay up or we'll sell your machine to cover it.

If they stand by their denial of warranty, this 'ol boy is heading straight for a lawyer's office. Although you can represent yourself in small claims, you can also have counsel represent you. I have always believed the man who serves as his own counsel is a brilliant lawyer, with a damned fool for a client.

Sooner or later, one way or the other, I will obtain a replacement engine. I prefer to be done with this warranty crap first. I'll definitely try to keep you guys posted about how this all works out. It just could be someone else can be better off if they see what's going on here---I do believe there's a B&S add up at the top of the page.