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Botom Seal

#1

C

cashman

Got my trusty 30113S out to cut some grass and all of a sudden it didn't want to pull very good. Looked up under it and the botom oil seal on the Briggs had let go! And they don't just sell the seal anymore, you have to buy a bushing and seal kit. Guess after 30+ years the seal did it's job. I know how I'll be spending the weekend!!!


#2

exotion

exotion

cashman said:
Got my trusty 30113S out to cut some grass and all of a sudden it didn't want to pull very good. Looked up under it and the botom oil seal on the Briggs had let go! And they don't just sell the seal anymore, you have to buy a bushing and seal kit. Guess after 30+ years the seal did it's job. I know how I'll be spending the weekend!!!
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Sounds like a fun project


#3

reynoldston

reynoldston

cashman said:
Got my trusty 30113S out to cut some grass and all of a sudden it didn't want to pull very good. Looked up under it and the botom oil seal on the Briggs had let go! And they don't just sell the seal anymore, you have to buy a bushing and seal kit. Guess after 30+ years the seal did it's job. I know how I'll be spending the weekend!!!
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I don't believe you can't buy the seal anymore. There are different ways of buying seals. One way is when you get the seal out there might or might not be a number on it and if there is you could be able to buy a new seal using that number. The other way is to measure the old seal and the place that sells seals should be able to sell you a seal. Stores that sell seals are most bearing dealer or NAPA.


#4

C

cashman

I think I got one coming from Wise. I noticed that they didn't give a part number for the seal. All they showed was a seal and bushing kit. Hopefully the seal will be in it? It's a 252707 0028-01. If it don't come, I've got a couple of 11hp briggs laying around. I'll just rob a sump off one of them. This one has never been taken apart and those drive plates can be a bear to get off sometimes! Thanks!!!


#5

reynoldston

reynoldston

The seal I am thinking you are talking about is the output shaft seal? That can't be a very hard seal to replace. I can't understand why you would want to change the engine case for this repair? As for the bushing that comes with the seal I think they are talking about a wear ring that presses onto the crankshaft.


#6

Fish

Fish

They must have had a problem with that model, as it calls for the kit of the DU bearing, and a new seal.
To install a DU bearing, requires a very expensive reamer kit, which very few Briggs dealer has. I bought the
kit for the old twin L-head back in the 90's and used it once, it cost several hundred bucks back then.

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#7

C

cashman

Yea I'm not going to go through all that. If I can't use what shows up, I'll just rob a sump and get it back to going. Thanks!!!


#8

M

motoman

OK fish, what is a DU bearing? Could the bush be to resize the case for an available seal?


#9

C

cashman

I think what Briggs recomends is reaming the plain bearing out and installing a brass or similar kind of bushing? The question is will the seal will be the same as the old one. Don't know at this point. That is why I have the backup plan to just replace the sump with a seal already in it if the new seal doesn't work. Thie leaking seal is a problem I'm sure some of you guys that like the old Snappers will experience at some point in time. I'll keep you all posted on what I discover. Thanks!!!


#10

reynoldston

reynoldston

Go to NAPA with the seal size and replace the seal, no big job, seal is cheap to buy and be done with it. If it leaks after then replace the engine case but you will have very little $'s involved and I just would think problem solved. You shouldn't even have to remove the engine from the chassis. Now if are going to install a used engine case are you going to use the old seal over?


#11

Fish

Fish

The du bushing looks a bit like this one. It is tapped into place after the bearing area has been reamed and finished. The seal
area isn't touched that I recall.

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#12

Fish

Fish

The kit looks like this, the block and sump are used to line up the reamers, the seal lip is used to center the process.



But yes, the seal you will get would probably work, just check for a bunch of slop.

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#13

C

cashman

I'm hoping that the seal that I'm getting from Wise is the same as the old one. If it is then won't be any problems. On the RER Snapper, I have always found it easier to remove the engine to replace the bottom seal. It's gtting the drive plate off that is hard with engine mounted. Sometimes they will come right off, sometimes not. It's a lot easier for me to do it with the engine sitting on the workbench. I have replaced cracked sumps with used ones leaving the old seal in place. Before I install the sump, I clean up the shaft and put a strip of electrical tape over the keyway in the crankshaft to keep it from damaging the old seal.


#14

C

cashman

Hey thanks to all you guys for the input and illustrations! I'll keep you posted!!!!


#15

D

DaveTN

cashman said:
I think what Briggs recomends is reaming the plain bearing out and installing a brass or similar kind of bushing? The question is will the seal will be the same as the old one. Don't know at this point. That is why I have the backup plan to just replace the sump with a seal already in it if the new seal doesn't work. Thie leaking seal is a problem I'm sure some of you guys that like the old Snappers will experience at some point in time. I'll keep you all posted on what I discover. Thanks!!!
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Why replace the bushing and ream it if you don't have to? Was there a lot of play in the crankshaft coming through the Oil Sump? If there was wear on the metal and causing movement side to side and that causing the seal to wear and leak...then I would probably put a bushing in it, ream it and pop a new crankshaft seal in it. (Don't forget to lube it on the inside part of the seal before you put the cleaned-up crankshaft through it or you might be putting another seal in!) But if a crank seal just suddenly let go because of being brittle, old age, heat, wear etc. On non-separated engines I'd just try to get the seal out by prying it out, careful not to scrach or scar the oil pan housing that holds the seal. On stubborn seals, I have had some luck by carefully drilling or punching in a small hole on the metal rim of the seal, then put a sheet metal screw in it (I usually file the sharp point flat first) and tighten it down. That will usually lift the seal enough to pull it on out. Might have to punch two holes on opposite sides in some tough removals. Otherwise you will have to remove the engine, drain the oil, flip it upside down and remove the oil pan. Knock it off and replace the seal by knocking it out from the inside while it's on two blocks of wood or whatever. Plus an oil sump pan gasket! Good Luck.


#16

Fish

Fish

DaveTN said:
Why replace the bushing and ream it if you don't have to? Was there a lot of play in the crankshaft coming through the Oil Sump? If there was wear on the metal and causing movement side to side and that causing the seal to wear and leak...then I would probably put a bushing in it, ream it and pop a new crankshaft seal in it. (Don't forget to lube it on the inside part of the seal before you put the cleaned-up crankshaft through it or you might be putting another seal in!) But if a crank seal just suddenly let go because of being brittle, old age, heat, wear etc. On non-separated engines I'd just try to get the seal out by prying it out, careful not to scrach or scar the oil pan housing that holds the seal. On stubborn seals, I have had some luck by carefully drilling or punching in a small hole on the metal rim of the seal, then put a sheet metal screw in it (I usually file the sharp point flat first) and tighten it down. That will usually lift the seal enough to pull it on out. Might have to punch two holes on opposite sides in some tough removals. Otherwise you will have to remove the engine, drain the oil, flip it upside down and remove the oil pan. Knock it off and replace the seal by knocking it out from the inside while it's on two blocks of wood or whatever. Plus an oil sump pan gasket! Good Luck.
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I don't believe that there is a du bearing originally on this sump, but they must have had a problem that the du kit was their cure.
Punching out and replacing an existing du bearing isn't that big of a deal.
Actually I really wasn't really suggesting what they should do, as I would go the cheapest, easiest route myself. I was just
outlining my experience with the du and the reaming kit, and what was involved.


#17

C

cashman

UPS delivered the seal and bushing kit this past week. Had the seal and the bushing in the box. The seal was identical to the one that came out of it. Got the seal installed today. All is well! Got the grass cut! I didn't install the bushing. If I have any more problems with it I've got a buddy with a milling machine and I'll get him to ream the sump out and install the bushing. I actually took some pics of the install. Will try to upload the them soon. Thanks!!!


#18

Fish

Fish

cashman said:
UPS delivered the seal and bushing kit this past week. Had the seal and the bushing in the box. The seal was identical to the one that came out of it. Got the seal installed today. All is well! Got the grass cut! I didn't install the bushing. If I have any more problems with it I've got a buddy with a milling machine and I'll get him to ream the sump out and install the bushing. I actually took some pics of the install. Will try to upload the them soon. Thanks!!!
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Your repair will likely outlast most of us!!!! Good deal!!!


#19

C

cashman

Here is the bushing and seal kit.



This is the mower. It started life as a 28113S. I changed the mower deck to a 30" that I removed from an old 30" mower that the engine was worn out on. I've had this mower for about 25 years. I still put the 28" deck on it when I want to bag leaves.



Here it is with the engine removed. The engine has to be removed to get the drive plate off.



Here you can see where the old seal had been leaking. On a front engine rider, you probably wouldn't notice the seal leaking unless it was dripping on the floor. But on the Snapper, the oil coats the drive disc and slipping results.



A sight for sore eyes! Got the drive plate off after some heat and a little TLC.



The new seal in place. Now to just put it all back together!



While I was in the mood and had all the tools out, I went ahead and lubricated the starter clutch.



Got the grass cut and I placed a piece of cardboard under the mower to see if any oil leaked over night. Didn't see any drips so far.

Thanks!!!

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