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Blowing fuses with key off
#1
PTmowerMech
PTmowerMech
Troybilt Super Bronco 13WQ93KP011
Kohler KT735-3012
Replaced fuse, and blew immediately. Removed the + battery cable and replaced it again. Blew as soon as I reconnected the battery
Removed the voltage regulator connect, replaced the fuse (ran out of 20's, used a 25) Plugged the regulator back in, reconnected the battery, and it's all good.
Except the lights wouldn't go off. And the engine wouldn't start. So, I tested the key switch and it's bad.
So my question so far is, could the key switch be causing the short that's blowing the fuses?
I still haven't checked the regulator yet. I'll get to that when I get the switch replaced.
Kohler KT735-3012
Replaced fuse, and blew immediately. Removed the + battery cable and replaced it again. Blew as soon as I reconnected the battery
Removed the voltage regulator connect, replaced the fuse (ran out of 20's, used a 25) Plugged the regulator back in, reconnected the battery, and it's all good.
Except the lights wouldn't go off. And the engine wouldn't start. So, I tested the key switch and it's bad.
So my question so far is, could the key switch be causing the short that's blowing the fuses?
I still haven't checked the regulator yet. I'll get to that when I get the switch replaced.
#2
S
slomo
I would disconnect items kinda like you are doing. One at a time reconnect and see when the fuse blows.
Probably the regulator has shorted on you. Maybe some crazy diodes.
Make sure the blades are off. PTO might be drawing excessive juice.
S
slomo
Something is drawing too much current.Replaced fuse, and blew immediately.
Well it's not the + cable right?Removed the + battery cable and replaced it again. Blew as soon as I reconnected the battery
Um, not advised to install a higher amp fuse, even for testing. Again you have excessive amp draw.Removed the voltage regulator connect, replaced the fuse (ran out of 20's, used a 25)
All good is no further issues.Plugged the regulator back in, reconnected the battery, and it's all good.
Except the lights wouldn't go off. And the engine wouldn't start.
I would disconnect items kinda like you are doing. One at a time reconnect and see when the fuse blows.
Probably the regulator has shorted on you. Maybe some crazy diodes.
Make sure the blades are off. PTO might be drawing excessive juice.
#3
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Yes a bad key switch can contribute to the problem, but you’re going to have to do some electrical troubleshooting to make sure.
#4
Hammermechanicman
Hammermechanicman
When troubleshooting blowing fuses take a blown fuse and a light bulb socket and cobble it together so the fuse link is replaced by the bulb. You plug this into the mower fuse holder and if you have a short the bulb lights up. When the bulb goes out you have found the short. Saves replacing lots of fuses
#5
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Are you 100% sure the battery polarity is right way round ?
pull the PTO pug apart & pull the plug off the back of the key switch
Check their power wires for a ground short
Pull the rectifier plug off and do the same
Plug them back in one at a time
One of the three will pop the fuse or light Hammers lamp
FWIW I use plug in circuit breakers for the same reason .
They will not take long term use in the mower but are good for short term testing
pull the PTO pug apart & pull the plug off the back of the key switch
Check their power wires for a ground short
Pull the rectifier plug off and do the same
Plug them back in one at a time
One of the three will pop the fuse or light Hammers lamp
FWIW I use plug in circuit breakers for the same reason .
They will not take long term use in the mower but are good for short term testing
#6
PTmowerMech
yes, the battery cables are on right. I checked that when I was fishing around for the fuse. (in the back, under the battery)
I'm waiting on a new switch. This was is bad.
PTmowerMech
Are you 100% sure the battery polarity is right way round ?
pull the PTO pug apart & pull the plug off the back of the key switch
Check their power wires for a ground short
Pull the rectifier plug off and do the same
Plug them back in one at a time
One of the three will pop the fuse or light Hammers lamp
FWIW I use plug in circuit breakers for the same reason .
They will not take long term use in the mower but are good for short term testing
yes, the battery cables are on right. I checked that when I was fishing around for the fuse. (in the back, under the battery)
I'm waiting on a new switch. This was is bad.
#7
Hammermechanicman
Hammermechanicman
The nice thing about the light vs a breaker is that you can troubleshoot the high current draw with it powered on. A breaker will trip out like a fuse whereas the light provides enough load to to not trip or blow. You can disconnect and reconnect things until the light goes out.Are you 100% sure the battery polarity is right way round ?
pull the PTO pug apart & pull the plug off the back of the key switch
Check their power wires for a ground short
Pull the rectifier plug off and do the same
Plug them back in one at a time
One of the three will pop the fuse or light Hammers lamp
FWIW I use plug in circuit breakers for the same reason .
They will not take long term use in the mower but are good for short term testing
#8
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Just depends what works for you.
I got a grab pack of blade breakers cheap and usually I can hear them pop
Being only slightly bigger than a fuse they fit nice in the tool box and of course I have them from 1A to 50A
SO I double checked what proports to be the wiring diagram
With the key off the only things connected to power is the key switch & the rectifier . looks like the PTO gets it's power from the A 1 key terminal
So that only leaves you with the 2 possible sources of the short ( and of course the wires between them.
That particular switch has 2 ground terminals the G & L, L being used for the MIR function
So yes a very good chance that a bad switch could be causing the fuse to blow.
Sorry that I did not read your original post properly
When I have a suspect key switch , I pull th plug and make the connections with some jumpers , short wires with uninsulated male blade terminal both ends
If it runs fine hot wired then the switch id suspect
You can get lots of silly things that can short out a key switch from corrosion to ants
The wiring diagram with key switch connections is in the parts book or in my case on the ARI data base so all of the usual parts suppler s web sites should have it on line
Some times it is just a bit of corrosion on the back of the plug a well that can be making the short s
I got a grab pack of blade breakers cheap and usually I can hear them pop
Being only slightly bigger than a fuse they fit nice in the tool box and of course I have them from 1A to 50A
SO I double checked what proports to be the wiring diagram
With the key off the only things connected to power is the key switch & the rectifier . looks like the PTO gets it's power from the A 1 key terminal
So that only leaves you with the 2 possible sources of the short ( and of course the wires between them.
That particular switch has 2 ground terminals the G & L, L being used for the MIR function
So yes a very good chance that a bad switch could be causing the fuse to blow.
Sorry that I did not read your original post properly
When I have a suspect key switch , I pull th plug and make the connections with some jumpers , short wires with uninsulated male blade terminal both ends
If it runs fine hot wired then the switch id suspect
You can get lots of silly things that can short out a key switch from corrosion to ants
The wiring diagram with key switch connections is in the parts book or in my case on the ARI data base so all of the usual parts suppler s web sites should have it on line
Some times it is just a bit of corrosion on the back of the plug a well that can be making the short s
#9
PTmowerMech
I was looking at those on Amazon the other day. I think I'm going to start investing in some of the more popular sizes. But the lightbulb idea is pretty good too.
PTmowerMech
Just depends what works for you.
I got a grab pack of blade breakers cheap and usually I can hear them pop
Being only slightly bigger than a fuse they fit nice in the tool box and of course I have them from 1A to 50A
SO I double checked what proports to be the wiring diagram
With the key off the only things connected to power is the key switch & the rectifier . looks like the PTO gets it's power from the A 1 key terminal
So that only leaves you with the 2 possible sources of the short ( and of course the wires between them.
That particular switch has 2 ground terminals the G & L, L being used for the MIR function
So yes a very good chance that a bad switch could be causing the fuse to blow.
Sorry that I did not read your original post properly
When I have a suspect key switch , I pull th plug and make the connections with some jumpers , short wires with uninsulated male blade terminal both ends
If it runs fine hot wired then the switch id suspect
You can get lots of silly things that can short out a key switch from corrosion to ants
The wiring diagram with key switch connections is in the parts book or in my case on the ARI data base so all of the usual parts suppler s web sites should have it on line
Some times it is just a bit of corrosion on the back of the plug a well that can be making the short s
I was looking at those on Amazon the other day. I think I'm going to start investing in some of the more popular sizes. But the lightbulb idea is pretty good too.
#10
PTmowerMech
PTmowerMech
Update, I found a key for a used key switch I had, and replaced the old one. And so far, so good on the fuse.
Oops, I just remembered, I still have that 25A fuse in it.
Man this mower has a bunch of issues. The PTO isn't clicking when I pull the button. Got down there to check to see if it was getting power, and there's no PTO stop on it. The only thing that was stopping it was the hard plastic harness where the wires go into the PTO. LMAO..
Customers request when he dropped it off. "I don't want to put much money into this." smh
Oops, I just remembered, I still have that 25A fuse in it.
Man this mower has a bunch of issues. The PTO isn't clicking when I pull the button. Got down there to check to see if it was getting power, and there's no PTO stop on it. The only thing that was stopping it was the hard plastic harness where the wires go into the PTO. LMAO..
Customers request when he dropped it off. "I don't want to put much money into this." smh
#11
PTmowerMech
So far so good on the new key switch. I've never heard of a bad key switch causing this. It makes me think I'm overlooking something. But if it wasn't the key switch, I feel like I would've already blown another fuse.
When you say "contributing" to the problem, I get worried.
PTmowerMech
Yes a bad key switch can contribute to the problem, but you’re going to have to do some electrical troubleshooting to make sure.
So far so good on the new key switch. I've never heard of a bad key switch causing this. It makes me think I'm overlooking something. But if it wasn't the key switch, I feel like I would've already blown another fuse.
When you say "contributing" to the problem, I get worried.
#12
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
If the key switch was directly shorting from the B terminal to the G terminal, this would cause the problem. If it shorting through a different terminal then you will need to do more troubleshooting.
#13
Hammermechanicman
Just run away as fast as you can and don't look back. When you hear that just tell them to load it back up. It is either a POS sombody gave them instead of throwing it away. Or it crapped years ago and has been setting for years and will need a hell if a lot more than "not much". When these roll in and the engi e is not runnig i give an initial estimate of $500 and up. They are always a POS can of worms. I ask if they want me to stop at a certain dollar amount or do they want it fixed because they are never the same cost.
Hammermechanicman
Customers request when he dropped it off. "I don't want to put much money into this." smh
Just run away as fast as you can and don't look back. When you hear that just tell them to load it back up. It is either a POS sombody gave them instead of throwing it away. Or it crapped years ago and has been setting for years and will need a hell if a lot more than "not much". When these roll in and the engi e is not runnig i give an initial estimate of $500 and up. They are always a POS can of worms. I ask if they want me to stop at a certain dollar amount or do they want it fixed because they are never the same cost.
#14
PTmowerMech
Yes sir. I did the diagnostic, told him it was the the key switch, and the cost. Then called him back and told him the PTO wasn't coming on, and if he wanted me to diagnose it. He agreed. Then called him back about some other minor something or other, he agreed. But then said, Just call me when you start getting close to $200.
1/2 hour later, I called him back told him the PTO was shot, gave him that price. He shrugged and agreed.
His shrugging immediately sent off big red flag. So I told him to drop off the parts money for that.
Which is usually my requirement for parts over $100, with new customers. I'm not going to order it til I get the money.
PTmowerMech
Just run away as fast as you can and don't look back. When you hear that just tell them to load it back up. It is either a POS sombody gave them instead of throwing it away. Or it crapped years ago and has been setting for years and will need a hell if a lot more than "not much". When these roll in and the engi e is not runnig i give an initial estimate of $500 and up. They are always a POS can of worms. I ask if they want me to stop at a certain dollar amount or do they want it fixed because they are never the same cost.
Yes sir. I did the diagnostic, told him it was the the key switch, and the cost. Then called him back and told him the PTO wasn't coming on, and if he wanted me to diagnose it. He agreed. Then called him back about some other minor something or other, he agreed. But then said, Just call me when you start getting close to $200.
1/2 hour later, I called him back told him the PTO was shot, gave him that price. He shrugged and agreed.
His shrugging immediately sent off big red flag. So I told him to drop off the parts money for that.
Which is usually my requirement for parts over $100, with new customers. I'm not going to order it til I get the money.
#15
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
It is always a problem
I have a small ZTR been in the yard for close to 2 years now.
The blades had been bent , broke the spindle & chopped up the deck.
They just set it aside for heaven knows how long so the nuts on the air filter cover had rusted solid to the studs then they used grips to try & turn the nuts buggering the other end so the stds now turned freely in the blower housing . BAttery was flat & engine would not turn over by hand .
SO it was a new blower housing & $ 300 ( Aus ) and a 5 month wait then another $ 200 in service labour + blades + spindle + $ 200 in deck welding .
So by the time I could actually drive the mower it was over $ 1000 and when tested the trannys are both shot
So customer is bitching because that will add another $ 1000 to a mower that is only 3 years old and was $ 5000 new
I have a small ZTR been in the yard for close to 2 years now.
The blades had been bent , broke the spindle & chopped up the deck.
They just set it aside for heaven knows how long so the nuts on the air filter cover had rusted solid to the studs then they used grips to try & turn the nuts buggering the other end so the stds now turned freely in the blower housing . BAttery was flat & engine would not turn over by hand .
SO it was a new blower housing & $ 300 ( Aus ) and a 5 month wait then another $ 200 in service labour + blades + spindle + $ 200 in deck welding .
So by the time I could actually drive the mower it was over $ 1000 and when tested the trannys are both shot
So customer is bitching because that will add another $ 1000 to a mower that is only 3 years old and was $ 5000 new
#16
PTmowerMech
You're backed up two years? Did you ever think about getting some help? lol
PTmowerMech
It is always a problem
I have a small ZTR been in the yard for close to 2 years now.
The blades had been bent , broke the spindle & chopped up the deck.
They just set it aside for heaven knows how long so the nuts on the air filter cover had rusted solid to the studs then they used grips to try & turn the nuts buggering the other end so the stds now turned freely in the blower housing . BAttery was flat & engine would not turn over by hand .
SO it was a new blower housing & $ 300 ( Aus ) and a 5 month wait then another $ 200 in service labour + blades + spindle + $ 200 in deck welding .
So by the time I could actually drive the mower it was over $ 1000 and when tested the trannys are both shot
So customer is bitching because that will add another $ 1000 to a mower that is only 3 years old and was $ 5000 new
You're backed up two years? Did you ever think about getting some help? lol
#17
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
No
It is finished
Customer does not want to pay $ 1000 for a mower that barely moves
Got quite a few jobs that have been sitting around for a few years because they came in just before I got really sick
Those customers all have one of my loaners till I can get around to fixing their mowers .
Right now some parts take near a year to turn up .
It is finished
Customer does not want to pay $ 1000 for a mower that barely moves
Got quite a few jobs that have been sitting around for a few years because they came in just before I got really sick
Those customers all have one of my loaners till I can get around to fixing their mowers .
Right now some parts take near a year to turn up .
#18
L
lbrac
I want to spend only enough to find out what is wrong, and what it will cost to repair the necessary thing(s), and items directly associated with those repairs. If there are optional items that do not limit the functionality of the equipment, I'll consider them as a separate cost. If the necessary repairs are not too expensive, based on the age and condition of the equipment, then optional items should be deferred until the critical repair outcomes are known to be successful. Of course there are always exceptions, but you have to start somewhere. The condition of the equipment after repair is also an important factor, because items in obviously poor condition might soon cost more to keep the equipment going.
The rule of thumb for industrial equipment is to limit the cost of overhaul to 50% of the cost of a new replacement. There are also exceptions to this too, like what new offerings are available that offer better features, etc., and the lead time for acquisition.
L
lbrac
No one wants to spend much for anything! Everyone has a different opinion as to what is too much, so it is best to determine the customer's perception of too much before starting. It could be obvious that repairs will be more expensive than they are willing to spend.Update, I found a key for a used key switch I had, and replaced the old one. And so far, so good on the fuse.
Oops, I just remembered, I still have that 25A fuse in it.
Man this mower has a bunch of issues. The PTO isn't clicking when I pull the button. Got down there to check to see if it was getting power, and there's no PTO stop on it. The only thing that was stopping it was the hard plastic harness where the wires go into the PTO. LMAO..
Customers request when he dropped it off. "I don't want to put much money into this." smh
I want to spend only enough to find out what is wrong, and what it will cost to repair the necessary thing(s), and items directly associated with those repairs. If there are optional items that do not limit the functionality of the equipment, I'll consider them as a separate cost. If the necessary repairs are not too expensive, based on the age and condition of the equipment, then optional items should be deferred until the critical repair outcomes are known to be successful. Of course there are always exceptions, but you have to start somewhere. The condition of the equipment after repair is also an important factor, because items in obviously poor condition might soon cost more to keep the equipment going.
The rule of thumb for industrial equipment is to limit the cost of overhaul to 50% of the cost of a new replacement. There are also exceptions to this too, like what new offerings are available that offer better features, etc., and the lead time for acquisition.
#19
PTmowerMech
This could be a nice mower. Fairly low hours on it. It's oily from easily repaired oil leaks. In fact, I was almost hoping he'd balk at the price of the new clutch and just say "keep it." But he mentioned something about picking it up, so I gave him a price on an aftermarket clutch.
He went with that.
PTmowerMech
No one wants to spend much for anything! Everyone has a different opinion as to what is too much, so it is best to determine the customer's perception of too much before starting. It could be obvious that repairs will be more expensive than they are willing to spend.
I want to spend only enough to find out what is wrong, and what it will cost to repair the necessary thing(s), and items directly associated with those repairs. If there are optional items that do not limit the functionality of the equipment, I'll consider them as a separate cost. If the necessary repairs are not too expensive, based on the age and condition of the equipment, then optional items should be deferred until the critical repair outcomes are known to be successful. Of course there are always exceptions, but you have to start somewhere. The condition of the equipment after repair is also an important factor, because items in obviously poor condition might soon cost more to keep the equipment going.
The rule of thumb for industrial equipment is to limit the cost of overhaul to 50% of the cost of a new replacement. There are also exceptions to this too, like what new offerings are available that offer better features, etc., and the lead time for acquisition.
This could be a nice mower. Fairly low hours on it. It's oily from easily repaired oil leaks. In fact, I was almost hoping he'd balk at the price of the new clutch and just say "keep it." But he mentioned something about picking it up, so I gave him a price on an aftermarket clutch.
He went with that.