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Bleeding Hydraulics 2004 Tiger Cub
#1
T
Tdog
T
Tdog
I warmed the machine and pulled the hydraulic filter off draining the system. I prefilled a new scag filter with mobil 20w-50 and refilled the reservoir. I jacked up the rear end and started her up and ran in forward and reverse as I'd read to do. Now I'm getting some noise when turning. Is there something else I need to do to fully bleed the system? I have good forward and reverse just have noise in turns I didn't have before changing fluid. Thanks for all assistance.
#2
K
KennyV
K
KennyV
That is the way to do it... Did you keep the hydraulic oil topped off, (don't overfill), as you ran the air out? May take 5 min forward and reversed while it is jacked up. Engine at idle...
Check the idler pulley on the drive belt... the spring can be weak and allow it to slip and that may be the source of the sound...
:smile:KennyV
Check the idler pulley on the drive belt... the spring can be weak and allow it to slip and that may be the source of the sound...
:smile:KennyV
#3
T
Tdog
I did keep the oil topped off. Should the top on the filler be left off when bleeding? Is there another place, perhaps at the pumps that would allow for air removal? I will check the pulley spring today, thanks.
Got the oil and filter, air filters, fuel filter, fuel line, and grease fittings at the brakes changed out yesterday. Also put on new fusion blades. Recently bought this machine W/250 hours on it. Though a 2004 still in very good shape, not commercially used. The machine starts much quicker (the way it should) after changing plugs and filters. I was concerned my starter life would be shortened... much better now :thumbsup:
The noise only occurs when running and making turns (either way) sort of a shooshing sound. Thanks for the response, any other thoughts or help would be appreciated. Loving my new Tiger Cub, cuts my mowing time in half. :biggrin:
T
Tdog
That is the way to do it... Did you keep the hydraulic oil topped off, (don't overfill), as you ran the air out? May take 5 min forward and reversed while it is jacked up. Engine at idle...
Check the idler pulley on the drive belt... the spring can be weak and allow it to slip and that may be the source of the sound...
:smile:KennyV
I did keep the oil topped off. Should the top on the filler be left off when bleeding? Is there another place, perhaps at the pumps that would allow for air removal? I will check the pulley spring today, thanks.
Got the oil and filter, air filters, fuel filter, fuel line, and grease fittings at the brakes changed out yesterday. Also put on new fusion blades. Recently bought this machine W/250 hours on it. Though a 2004 still in very good shape, not commercially used. The machine starts much quicker (the way it should) after changing plugs and filters. I was concerned my starter life would be shortened... much better now :thumbsup:
The noise only occurs when running and making turns (either way) sort of a shooshing sound. Thanks for the response, any other thoughts or help would be appreciated. Loving my new Tiger Cub, cuts my mowing time in half. :biggrin:
#4
K
KennyV
K
KennyV
The cap is vented, but it would allow the air a quick exit with the top off... should not matter once air gets to the reservoir.
If it is air in the system , it may take a bit more time running with the drive wheels jacked up... run with No load. :smile:KennyV
If it is air in the system , it may take a bit more time running with the drive wheels jacked up... run with No load. :smile:KennyV
#5
T
Tdog
Does it help to jack the rear end up higher? I just had wheels an inch or 2 of the ground. Don't think the noise is from the spring as I didn't have it before changing fluid. The filter I got was a scag brand but it looked weird not rounded where seam holding filter together was. Also there was some rust around the holes on the filter?? Don't guess there are knock-off filters sold as scag brand? Also if it had petroleum based 20W-50 and I used synthetic could there be a problem with not getting all the old oil out? The Scag dealer here recommended the Mobil 20W-50 Thanks
T
Tdog
The cap is vented, but it would allow the air a quick exit with the top off... should not matter once air gets to the reservoir.
If it is air in the system , it may take a bit more time running with the drive wheels jacked up... run with No load. :smile:KennyV
Does it help to jack the rear end up higher? I just had wheels an inch or 2 of the ground. Don't think the noise is from the spring as I didn't have it before changing fluid. The filter I got was a scag brand but it looked weird not rounded where seam holding filter together was. Also there was some rust around the holes on the filter?? Don't guess there are knock-off filters sold as scag brand? Also if it had petroleum based 20W-50 and I used synthetic could there be a problem with not getting all the old oil out? The Scag dealer here recommended the Mobil 20W-50 Thanks
#6
K
KennyV
K
KennyV
Up just enough to clear the tires should do it...
Synthetic will blend with anything so that will not cause any problems. Synthetic is great for hydro use...
20w50 is the correct oil... continue with the air purge if you have already checked all the external possible sources for the noise... If you can post a short youtube with the sound recorded...
:smile:KennyV
Synthetic will blend with anything so that will not cause any problems. Synthetic is great for hydro use...
20w50 is the correct oil... continue with the air purge if you have already checked all the external possible sources for the noise... If you can post a short youtube with the sound recorded...
:smile:KennyV
#7
T
Tdog
Thanks for your responses, still getting some noise. I jacked her up again today and ran with wheels off the ground, No noise in the air. Have good forward and reverse. When turning either way I'm still getting some noise. Didn't have this before changing the oil and filter. I'm thinking about dropping the filter and replacing it as it just looked weird when putting it on. If I go aftermarket will Wix 51259 or Napa 1259 work on the Tiger Cub? Has anyone used these on a Tiger Cub? The Wix cross reference shows 4846201 crossing to a Wix 51200 or NAPA 1200 which is only 21 micron. The factory Scag shows as 10 micron. Thanks. T
T
Tdog
Up just enough to clear the tires should do it...
Synthetic will blend with anything so that will not cause any problems. Synthetic is great for hydro use...
20w50 is the correct oil... continue with the air purge if you have already checked all the external possible sources for the noise... If you can post a short youtube with the sound recorded...
:smile:KennyV
Thanks for your responses, still getting some noise. I jacked her up again today and ran with wheels off the ground, No noise in the air. Have good forward and reverse. When turning either way I'm still getting some noise. Didn't have this before changing the oil and filter. I'm thinking about dropping the filter and replacing it as it just looked weird when putting it on. If I go aftermarket will Wix 51259 or Napa 1259 work on the Tiger Cub? Has anyone used these on a Tiger Cub? The Wix cross reference shows 4846201 crossing to a Wix 51200 or NAPA 1200 which is only 21 micron. The factory Scag shows as 10 micron. Thanks. T
#8
M
Mad Mackie
M
Mad Mackie
Get a Scag filter of the correct part number. Bear in mind that when you remove the filter, the oil reservoir will drain out.
When I replace this filter I fill it up with oil and let it sit to soak and vent off the air, top off the oil and then install it. I then fill the reservoir to the level of the tube, run the machine, check and top off the reservoir. This minimizes the removal of air in the system which is usually very quick. You will need 3 quarts of 20W50 oil.
A vented hydraulic reservoir needs to have sufficient air space above the oil level to allow the returning oil to release the air bubbles, overfilling the reservoir will affect the release of the air bubbles and underfilling can cause cavitation of the oil being drawn in by the pumps.
Make sure the by-pass valves on each pump are shut, check you manual for location and tightness of these valves.
Mad Mackie in CT
When I replace this filter I fill it up with oil and let it sit to soak and vent off the air, top off the oil and then install it. I then fill the reservoir to the level of the tube, run the machine, check and top off the reservoir. This minimizes the removal of air in the system which is usually very quick. You will need 3 quarts of 20W50 oil.
A vented hydraulic reservoir needs to have sufficient air space above the oil level to allow the returning oil to release the air bubbles, overfilling the reservoir will affect the release of the air bubbles and underfilling can cause cavitation of the oil being drawn in by the pumps.
Make sure the by-pass valves on each pump are shut, check you manual for location and tightness of these valves.
Mad Mackie in CT
#9
T
Tdog
I guess it's possible I overfilled slighty? (used 3 Qt including filter fill) I did use the correct Scag brand filter however it looks different than the original one I took off. Looking down at the holes on the filter there are crimps sort of hexagonally around the filter housing. The new one I just bought to replace the one I just put on :frown: (also Scag brand same #) is round with no crimps? I wonder if they have different manufacturers making their filters? I will check the bypass valves for tightness. Thanks for the tip. Are you saying that you fill just below the metal tube initially to bleed, then fill to specs? Should I leave the tube out when bleeding? Maybe I'll try and bleed again without the tube in see if that solves the problem. Thanks appreciate the help. Don't want to mess up my "new to me" Scag.
T
Tdog
Get a Scag filter of the correct part number. Bear in mind that when you remove the filter, the oil reservoir will drain out.
When I replace this filter I fill it up with oil and let it sit to soak and vent off the air, top off the oil and then install it. I then fill the reservoir to the level of the tube, run the machine, check and top off the reservoir. This minimizes the removal of air in the system which is usually very quick. You will need 3 quarts of 20W50 oil.
A vented hydraulic reservoir needs to have sufficient air space above the oil level to allow the returning oil to release the air bubbles, overfilling the reservoir will affect the release of the air bubbles and underfilling can cause cavitation of the oil being drawn in by the pumps.
Make sure the by-pass valves on each pump are shut, check you manual for location and tightness of these valves.
Mad Mackie in CT
I guess it's possible I overfilled slighty? (used 3 Qt including filter fill) I did use the correct Scag brand filter however it looks different than the original one I took off. Looking down at the holes on the filter there are crimps sort of hexagonally around the filter housing. The new one I just bought to replace the one I just put on :frown: (also Scag brand same #) is round with no crimps? I wonder if they have different manufacturers making their filters? I will check the bypass valves for tightness. Thanks for the tip. Are you saying that you fill just below the metal tube initially to bleed, then fill to specs? Should I leave the tube out when bleeding? Maybe I'll try and bleed again without the tube in see if that solves the problem. Thanks appreciate the help. Don't want to mess up my "new to me" Scag.
#10
M
Mad Mackie
No doubt that Scag and others have different filter companies, the important thing is that it is marked with the correct part number. Having been a marine mech years back, several of the companies that I worked for had learned the lesson that aftermarket filters are problematic and use only the specific manufacturers filters.
When I replace hydraulic filters, I fill the filter, install it, bring the oil level to the bottom of the tube and run the machine. I bring the oil level back up to the bottom of the tube and run and operate the machine as if I were mowing and recheck the oil level.
You can remove the tube and shine a flashlight into the reservoir to see if there are air bubbles, you will see some. During operation as the hydraulic oil warms up, its ability to release air bubbles improves.
I don't jack up the machine and run it unless I have replaced a pressure hose and/or a wheel motor.
Mad Mackie in CT
M
Mad Mackie
I guess it's possible I overfilled slighty? (used 3 Qt including filter fill) I did use the correct Scag brand filter however it looks different than the original one I took off. Looking down at the holes on the filter there are crimps sort of hexagonally around the filter housing. The new one I just bought to replace the one I just put on :frown: (also Scag brand same #) is round with no crimps? I wonder if they have different manufacturers making their filters? I will check the bypass valves for tightness. Thanks for the tip. Are you saying that you fill just below the metal tube initially to bleed, then fill to specs? Should I leave the tube out when bleeding? Maybe I'll try and bleed again without the tube in see if that solves the problem. Thanks appreciate the help. Don't want to mess up my "new to me" Scag.
No doubt that Scag and others have different filter companies, the important thing is that it is marked with the correct part number. Having been a marine mech years back, several of the companies that I worked for had learned the lesson that aftermarket filters are problematic and use only the specific manufacturers filters.
When I replace hydraulic filters, I fill the filter, install it, bring the oil level to the bottom of the tube and run the machine. I bring the oil level back up to the bottom of the tube and run and operate the machine as if I were mowing and recheck the oil level.
You can remove the tube and shine a flashlight into the reservoir to see if there are air bubbles, you will see some. During operation as the hydraulic oil warms up, its ability to release air bubbles improves.
I don't jack up the machine and run it unless I have replaced a pressure hose and/or a wheel motor.
Mad Mackie in CT
#11
T
Tdog
T
Tdog
Mackie, thanks for the tip on the by-pass valves, they were both tight.....but good to know these need to be loose when moving machine with no power. Guess I'm gonna try to re-bleed again without the tube in watching with a light to see if more air is released. Really don't want to spend an extra $50 bucks (filter and oil)for something I've just done. BTW when changing out my fuel lines, I used the Gates barricade 1/4 inch line as a replacement. It worked well in all places but from the fuel pump to the carb. The 1/4" line is slightly large for this application. I went ahead and ordered the replacement Kawasaki fuel tube(s) that attach to the fuel pump. Want to make sure there are no fuel leaks....cheap insurance. Thanks folks for sharing the knowledge.