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I just purchased a Gravely Pro-Turn 152 XDZ mower with a commercial Kawasaki FX691V 22hp engine. I have always had Briggs & Stratton mower engines and used the SAE30 B & S oil with very good results(never had any oil leaks or consumption). A buddy of mine with a six year old Gravley 260 with the commercial FH721V 25hp Kaw engine says he ran Mobil1 10w30(non-synthetic) for the first year, then switched to Mobil1 10w30 synthetic(upon the Gravely dealer's advice). The manual on my Kaw engine states:"Using multi-grade oils(5w20,10w30 and 10w40) will increase oil consumption. Check oil level more frequently when using them." so I am again inclined to use the SAE30, but not real sure. For my truck and cars I have ALWAYS run Pennzoil 10w30(again with excellent results) and I'm certain that Pennzoil has a SAE30 oil. Any advice that will help me keep this Kawasaki engine "like new" for the next decade or so?????

Should be a detergent oil, if you look on your dipstick it will tell what viscosity to use.
I use 10w30 Mobil 5000 in my Kawasaki and Kohlor and never had any problems with any using oil..

Ric said:

Should be a detergent oil, if you look on your dipstick it will tell what viscosity to use.
I use 10w30 Mobil 5000 in my Kawasaki and Kohlor and never had any problems with any using oil..

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Ric,
That sounds like very good advice, thanks!! I was leaning towards getting the K-Tech(Kawasaki brand oil) if the dealer carries it, using the SAE30 for the initial break-in oil change at 8-10 hours(Kaw manual says 8 hours, the Gravely manual says 25 hours and the dealer mechanic recommended 10 hours) with a filter change(just to be safe in case of any break-in metal shavings). Then to err on the side of caution I was going to do another oil-only change at 25 hours per the Gravely recommendation using SAE30, and then at 50 hours using the K-Tech 10w30 synthetic with a filter change. After that I would go to a annual oil change/every other year filter change. I believe that even though the Kaw engine manual recommends 100 hour oil changes that oil changes it should at least be annually(to start each season) despite the hours(unless you exceed 100 hours in a season which most consumers won't unless they have a very large area to mow).
Just for grins, how do you feel about me using the Briggs & Stratton SAE30 for the first two oil changes??? I didn't realize it, but I "stocked up" when it was on sale and I have (4) 48 ounce bottles of it that I bought for the Craftsman 54" B & S engine. I have "jokingly" said that the Kawasaki might reject it like a bad liver transplant, but after all it probably is a good quality SAE30 because after 6 years of using it, the Craftsman still didn't show any oil loss/consumption. I will probably give my son enough B & S oil to change the Craftsman next spring, but I would still have enough to change my Kaw twice, then change to the K-Tech 10w30 synthetic. Worst case I'll just give all of the B & S oil to my son. Watcha think about using the B & S SAE30 in my brand new Kawasaki????

In my clients equipment, I have been using Castro 20-50 for years. I get it in a 55 gal drum with a pump. On my personal car/truck/motorcycle/etc, I have been using Shaeffers oil. It is unbelievable. a great product and I don't work for them either. Before I switched 5 years ago, I ran ATF oil in my vehicles for 5 minutes to clean the engine. ATF is an extremely high detergent oil that REALLY cleans the inside of an engine. Shaeffer recommends changing oil every 10 to 15000 miles. It only costs a "little" more, but so worth it.

djdicetn said:

Ric,
That sounds like very good advice, thanks!! I was leaning towards getting the K-Tech(Kawasaki brand oil) if the dealer carries it, using the SAE30 for the initial break-in oil change at 8-10 hours(Kaw manual says 8 hours, the Gravely manual says 25 hours and the dealer mechanic recommended 10 hours) with a filter change(just to be safe in case of any break-in metal shavings). Then to err on the side of caution I was going to do another oil-only change at 25 hours per the Gravely recommendation using SAE30, and then at 50 hours using the K-Tech 10w30 synthetic with a filter change. After that I would go to a annual oil change/every other year filter change. I believe that even though the Kaw engine manual recommends 100 hour oil changes that oil changes it should at least be annually(to start each season) despite the hours(unless you exceed 100 hours in a season which most consumers won't unless they have a very large area to mow).
Just for grins, how do you feel about me using the Briggs & Stratton SAE30 for the first two oil changes??? I didn't realize it, but I "stocked up" when it was on sale and I have (4) 48 ounce bottles of it that I bought for the Craftsman 54" B & S engine. I have "jokingly" said that the Kawasaki might reject it like a bad liver transplant, but after all it probably is a good quality SAE30 because after 6 years of using it, the Craftsman still didn't show any oil loss/consumption. I will probably give my son enough B & S oil to change the Craftsman next spring, but I would still have enough to change my Kaw twice, then change to the K-Tech 10w30 synthetic. Worst case I'll just give all of the B & S oil to my son. Watcha think about using the B & S SAE30 in my brand new Kawasaki????

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As long as you use a good petroleum based detergent oil for the first 50 hours so the rings seat you should be alright. I purchased the Toro Grandstand with the Kawasaki 15hp in July and changed at 8hrs again at 30hrs and the last change was at 80hrs all with filters, the next will be at 130 and it will be changed every 50hrs in the future. As far as the synthetic goes, personally I think it's overkill and a waste of money if you change your oil the way you use the mower, ( frequently.)
As far as the B&S oil goes if it's something you have been using, you like it and it's worked for you and have faith in it go for it. If I were you what ever brand and viscosity oil you start with I'd stay with, I wouldn't change to a synthetic or a different brand oil. JMO

djdicetn said:

I just purchased a Gravely Pro-Turn 152 XDZ mower with a commercial Kawasaki FX691V 22hp engine. I have always had Briggs & Stratton mower engines and used the SAE30 B & S oil with very good results(never had any oil leaks or consumption). A buddy of mine with a six year old Gravley 260 with the commercial FH721V 25hp Kaw engine says he ran Mobil1 10w30(non-synthetic) for the first year, then switched to Mobil1 10w30 synthetic(upon the Gravely dealer's advice). The manual on my Kaw engine states:"Using multi-grade oils(5w20,10w30 and 10w40) will increase oil consumption. Check oil level more frequently when using them." so I am again inclined to use the SAE30, but not real sure. For my truck and cars I have ALWAYS run Pennzoil 10w30(again with excellent results) and I'm certain that Pennzoil has a SAE30 oil. Any advice that will help me keep this Kawasaki engine "like new" for the next decade or so?????

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Well it's almost a decade how's that mower treating you? Any way OIL ..not that I can't think for myself..my girl does that for me....but i can read, at least a wee bit..read and heed what the manufacturer specifies and make a adjustments.. "Harsh service" or factors such as that...and be sure to check your oil every time you use that piece of equipment and give it a good look over... Remember ANY OIL IS BETTER THAN NO OIL! i'll check back with you in a couple more years.. be safe and thank you

Kawasaki and Kohler oils both have Zinc in them. A lubricant not effected by the heat that these air cooled engines produce.. Not available at automotive parts stores. Zinc infused oils will poison catalytic converters, so I think that's why they don't sell Zink infused oils. Kawasaki and Kohler oil are made by the same process so basically the same. That's the oil I use in my shop in "ALL" 4 stoke lawnmowers that come in for repairs. 30 WT for L-head (flat head) and 10w30 for overhead valve unless it says different. Learned about the Zink in Kawasaki Engine school. But as was posted above, ANY OIL is better then none.

I've been running Shell Rotella T-4 (15w-40 ) in my Kawasaki, & Briggs Flathead. I have never had to add any oil thru the season.

This oil has the JASO approved rating on back of the jug. And it has 1,200 ppm of zinc. Among other great additives for solid lifter engines.

Kawasaki offers an entire lineup of oils for their small air cooled engines.


Pick whichever one fits your application. Most genuine tune up kits include the 10w-40 but if you can fit within the operating temperatures listed, SAE30 is the best oil you can use based on minimal oil loss. Again, it all depends on your operating temperatures. Also. If you check your oil before each use, as you should, you will be able to spot any oil contamination issues throughout the season and adjust viscocity and oil change frequencies as appropriate.

Well i have been using the best Amsoil in my pickup and mowers, for the last 40 years.never had any problems always looks nutty brown not black like other oils, when i check it. change it once a year.and never put any additives or helpers in the oil,and never use starting fluid,i know there is a lot of guys out there that don't believe in a synthetic oil,but its better for the motor. when it get super hot it wont break down.AMSOIL.COM check it out,it will not hurt your motor,they also sell a twin oil filter housing and a plate for the motor and hose,on their site there might be a dealer in your area that sells Amsoil.give them a call

One of the jobs of engine oil is to clean the engine by holding the contaminants in suspension so that they will be taken out of the engine when the oil is drained. 'Black' motor oil is not a bad thing. It's evidence that that the oil is doing its job of holding contaminants in suspension.

Sure Kawasaki has their own label on oil they have subbed out to get made.

I'm sticking to the Rotella T-4, I think it is superior to the Ktech oil Kawasaki labels.

And good oil like this you NEVER need to add "snake oil" additives to. That's what works for me.

Cheapest Walmart Supertech 30w you can find. Get it in the 2 gallon jugs at Walmart for pennies on the dollar.

slomo said:

Cheapest Walmart Supertech 30w you can find. Get it in the 2 gallon jugs at Walmart for pennies on the dollar.

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But do you know what is in it ? Is it good for solid lifter engines ?

I wan interested in this SuperTech oil so I started looking into it. I got a little concerned when Walmart's site only brought up an SAE30 that is a bar and chain oil with "tack additives." A Google search then found a non-detergent SAE30 lubricating oil that is "Not For Use In Automotive Gasoline Engines." I really started to worry for Slomo. Then I finally found what they call their "Conventional SAE HD-30" oil. Here is a link for it:


I am sure that you cannot come to any immediate conclusions just from reading the back of the bottle, but it does appear to work for automotive applications, but more specifically for severe-duty applications such as farm and construction equipment. This doesn't mean that it's perfect for a Kawasaki FS V-twin, but it does meet the highest API service category.

And Slomo is right, the price of this oil is cheap compared to most other small engine oils that I have been purchasing. I think that my Local Family Farm and Home sells Briggs SAE30 for about $8-9 a quart compared to the Super Tech at $3.12 a quart. And don't even get me started on my Exmark oil which might be closer to $10 a gallon. The only thing stopping me from even trying the Super Tech is that I will spend as much money in gas driving to a Walmart as I will save on buying the oil.

API SN+--------- won't be in my mower.

That Walmart oil has no diesel classification approval, if that matters to the user.

FWIW, you can buy good, gasoline and diesel rated oil such as the Rotella T-4 that Buddy mentioned for around $3 a quart ($12/gallon).

cruzenmike said:

(snip)
I am sure that you cannot come to any immediate conclusions just from reading the back of the bottle, but it does appear to work for automotive applications,

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No you can not form any quick conclusions from merely reading the back of the bottle, you have go to the oil manufactures site & find the specs for that exact oil, & study them. At least that's what I do.

Last season I changed the oil in my mower that has a Briggs engine on it, I used 10-30 oil. It wasn't long it was smoking a little but as the season went on it became a fogger machine. I figured the engine was shot as the spark plug was completely fouled. Then I remembered the owners manual that says use 30 oil in it I changed the oil and a new plug and as soon as it got hot enough to burn the oil in the muffler, it quite smoking. I finished the season and has cut my grass once the season and no smoke and haven't added any oil.

Seems reading owners manual is worthwhile.. Cool, no more fogging machine.

djdicetn said:

I just purchased a Gravely Pro-Turn 152 XDZ mower with a commercial Kawasaki FX691V 22hp engine. I have always had Briggs & Stratton mower engines and used the SAE30 B & S oil with very good results(never had any oil leaks or consumption). A buddy of mine with a six year old Gravley 260 with the commercial FH721V 25hp Kaw engine says he ran Mobil1 10w30(non-synthetic) for the first year, then switched to Mobil1 10w30 synthetic(upon the Gravely dealer's advice). The manual on my Kaw engine states:"Using multi-grade oils(5w20,10w30 and 10w40) will increase oil consumption. Check oil level more frequently when using them." so I am again inclined to use the SAE30, but not real sure. For my truck and cars I have ALWAYS run Pennzoil 10w30(again with excellent results) and I'm certain that Pennzoil has a SAE30 oil. Any advice that will help me keep this Kawasaki engine "like new" for the next decade or so?????

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Best to use for Kawasaki engine is probably kawasaki oil. It's got a good dose of zinc added to it.

And there are better options.

Looks like wallymart is discontinuing the 2 gallon jugs. It was $19.22 for 2 gallons or $2.40 a quart. I've ran it for years in Briggs and Kawasaki engines with no issues. Actually it runs really clean compared to other 30w oils.



slomo

7394 said:

But do you know what is in it ? Is it good for solid lifter engines ?

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Wasn't aware mower engines had solid lifters. I've ran Supertech 30w for years with zero issues. Far as I know Supertech 30w is top rated 30w oil.

slomo

cpurvis said:

That Walmart oil has no diesel classification approval, if that matters to the user.

FWIW, you can buy good, gasoline and diesel rated oil such as the Rotella T-4 that Buddy mentioned for around $3 a quart ($12/gallon).

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I do not own any Diesel OPE engines so I'm good.

slomo

oldgray said:

Last season I changed the oil in my mower that has a Briggs engine on it, I used 10-30 oil. It wasn't long it was smoking a little but as the season went on it became a fogger machine. I figured the engine was shot as the spark plug was completely fouled. Then I remembered the owners manual that says use 30 oil in it I changed the oil and a new plug and as soon as it got hot enough to burn the oil in the muffler, it quite smoking. I finished the season and has cut my grass once the season and no smoke and haven't added any oil.

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I never use a multi-viscosity in an OPE mower engines. Good old tried and true 30w doesn't smoke or burn for me. In grass cutting season, above 70F, 30w oil is perfect in air cooled engines.

slomo

slomo said:

Wasn't aware mower engines had solid lifters. I've ran Supertech 30w for years with zero issues. Far as I know Supertech 30w is top rated 30w oil.

slomo

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The Kawasaki's have solid lifters, Least the ones I'm familiar with do.

cpurvis said:

One of the jobs of engine oil is to clean the engine by holding the contaminants in suspension so that they will be taken out of the engine when the oil is drained. 'Black' motor oil is not a bad thing. It's evidence that that the oil is doing its job of holding contaminants in suspension.

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Your all wrong if you used a full synthetic like Amsoil it would not be black just nutty brown,it lubricates,doesn't eat the block like the oil they pull out of the ground,with the high heat it doesn't break down.change it once a year still nutty brown i should know been using it in my mowers and my trucks for over 30 years.prove me wrong go to their site

Not going to argue with you. Use what you like.

Most mower engines outlast the rest of the machine, can't go wrong with straight 30 wt though.
I have used 15-40 Diesel oil many times too.

PTmowerMech said:

Best to use for Kawasaki engine is probably kawasaki oil. It's got a good dose of zinc added to it.

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In the Deep South, we only use the 20w-50 at the Dealers recommendation.

7394 said:

In the Deep South, we only use the 20w-50 at the Dealers recommendation.

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Same here in Oklahoma.

7394 said:

In the Deep South, we only use the 20w-50 at the Dealers recommendation.

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same in NW NJ where outside air reaches 100 plus in the summer.

Kawasaki or Kohler oil.
Both made by same company.
Contains Zinc that's unaffected by heat.
Better protection in all heat ranges.
Don't use in car, or it will ruin your catalytic converter.
Certified Mechanic, Kawasaki, Kohler, and Briggs MST.

Zinc or zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate (ZDDP) in motor oil creates a protective coating on metal surfaces in the engine so it can stand up to the stress put on the camshaft and other components. Your average oil produced today provides enough protection for most cars used in normal operating conditions.

slomo said:

Cheapest Walmart Supertech 30w you can find. Get it in the 2 gallon jugs at Walmart for pennies on the dollar.

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Richard Ehrenberg SAE from Mopar Action magazine says the same thing... Walmart oil. I use it in my Cub 782

PTmowerMech said:

Zinc or zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate (ZDDP) in motor oil creates a protective coating on metal surfaces in the engine so it can stand up to the stress put on the camshaft and other components. Your average oil produced today provides enough protection for most cars used in normal operating conditions.

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ZDDP only protects when the oil film fails. High lift cam shafts in hot rods which do not use roller lifters need ZDDP oil changed every 1500 miles because the ZDDP is consumed in contact.

So what I am saying is an engine which requires ZDDP oil is defective in design.

I would not call "solid lifter" engines defective.

7394 said:

I would not call "solid lifter" engines defective.

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No.
just cheaper to make
Mower engines are so unstressed and valve pressure is so low that cats urine would probably do for lubricating the cams
People pull stuff from web sites that is correct for the subject there and because they do not actually understand the fundamental science / engineering behind it think that it should be universally applicable
Perfect example is the valve seat recession that was going to cause every engine designed to run on leaded fuel to self destruct .
Did it happen , well very occasionally
why did every car not not fall apart ?
Well because the study was on air craft engines not car engines
So only applicable to engines running under lean burn conditions at 20,000+ feet
But every motor journalist jumped on the band waggon

Well ZZDP is exactly the same story
It protects from scuffing wear when the boundary lubrication of the oil breaks down
Can this happen on a mower engine ?
only if you fit double valve spring and rapid rise high lift cams and even then there would probably be enough oil splashing around to keep the cam lobes & followers happy.
This is of course provided you are running some thing a little heavier than sewing machine oil in the sump .

7394 said:

I would not call "solid lifter" engines defective.

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I didn't say that. I said, "high lift hot rod engines with solid lifters". Big difference. Almost every automobile on the road has solid lifters, even those with hydraulic lifters. But go to high lift and high spring rates for high RPM, the pressure on the camshaft is increased beyond what a reasonable oil film can protect.

I think ZDDP is primarily a means for Lawn Mower Oil Salesmen to instill F.U.D. in consumers and "mechanics" to buy their product. ZDDP is something that eliminates automotive motor oils.

Fear Uncertainty Doubt.

GrumpyCat said:

every automobile on the road has solid lifters, even those with hydraulic lifters.

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Please can ya explain that statement ?

7394 said:

Please can ya explain that statement ?

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"Almost every..."

Hydraulic lifters slide on camshaft same as "solid" lifters. Vs the use of a roller lifter which costs more than a solid bucket. A roller lifter is essential on high lift cam lobes. Essential for high spring rates due to the added force against the cam lobe. But many hot rod builders cut corners using solid lifters because they could get away with it using ZDDP oil. Mobil-1 changed the formulation of "red cap" (and changed the cap color to gold) 15W-50 just over 20 years ago and caught many unawares. Supposedly, for a while at least, they put ZDDP back in the oil.

Can't get away with it for long because the ZDDP is consumed when metal-to-metal contact occurs.

When ZDDP oil is "necessary" it indicates the engine design is inferior. Too high of contact pressure someplace. And/or inadequate oiling. Indicates high stress, not low stress.

GrumpyCat said:

I didn't say that. I said, "high lift hot rod engines with solid lifters". Big difference. Almost every automobile on the road has solid lifters, even those with hydraulic lifters. But go to high lift and high spring rates for high RPM, the pressure on the camshaft is increased beyond what a reasonable oil film can protect.

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That post seems to have disappeared.. & You did say that."every automobile on the road has solid lifters, even those with hydraulic lifters".

Don't pee on my leg & tell me it's raining..

Gotta love an oil thread!



Scrub's oil is better than my oil

7394 said:

That post seems to have disappeared.. & You did say that."every automobile on the road has solid lifters, even those with hydraulic lifters".

Don't pee on my leg & tell me it's raining..

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“Almost every automobile on the road has solid lifters, even those with hydraulic lifters“ is post
https://www.lawnmowerforum.com/threads/best-oil-to-use-for-kawasaki.11976/post-473086

PTmowerMech said:

Best to use for Kawasaki engine is probably kawasaki oil. It's got a good dose of zinc added to it.

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How much zinc?

GrumpyCat said:

How much zinc?

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I can't tell you the amount, But as a certified Small engine mechanic I can say that Kawasaki and Kohler oil both have Zink (Same oil, different label).
Short story: One Sunday I was servicing my neighbor's lawn mower and didn't have the Honda oil I normally use in low end machines, so after adjusting the valves, I threw in some Kohler oil and it was done, But was no valve noise.
Pulled the valve cover and rechecked the valve lash and it was perfect, so just chalked it up as one of those things.

The following week, I brought one of my lawn tractors to the shop, adjusted the valves, and put in the Honda oil. Same valve noise as expected. After I let it run for 30 minutes,I dropped the oil and filter and used Kohler oil and a new Briggs filter and low and behold, no noise.
The oil got rid of the noise.
At Kawasaki Service school I asked the difference between the Kohler oil and the Kawi oil they were hawking and was told the same oil, different labels but I could buy a mixed pallet of weights (30W and 10W-30) unlike Kohler where I was stuck just getting a pallet of one weight.
Now all I use is whatever is cheaper, Kawasaki oil or Kohler oil. it is the best you can get for High-temperature air-cooled engines.
Just tell people not to put it in their cars, It will poison (ruin) the Catalytic converter.
Kawi Oil is at the dealer, but Tractor Supply carries Kohler oil if you are not in the repair biz and want to buy some for your personal lawn equipment.
Since there is no more lead in the gas, the Zink is a must for the oldies like the Kohler Magnums and the old L-head Briggs and Stratton engines.
Wrenchit

Has been claimed, “automobile oil has no zinc” which is incorrect. If Kawasaki oil is so great for having zinc then how much does it have?

GrumpyCat said:

Has been claimed, “automobile oil has no zinc” which is incorrect. If Kawasaki oil is so great for having zinc then how much does it have?

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I have no idea, all I know is that it does make a positive difference and that's all I care about.

GrumpyCat said:

Has been claimed, “automobile oil has no zinc” which is incorrect. If Kawasaki oil is so great for having zinc then how much does it have?

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It’s going to have as much zinc and phosphorus as most other 4 Stroke motorcycle oil or Power Sports oils. Kawasaki and Kohler don’t publish product data sheets. So, take a look at what Valvoline, Mobil, Castrol and others publish. The zinc and phosphate levels are going to be around 1,200 PPM.
Example: https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publ...2d889bd3/4707a799-e29c-e711-9c10-ac162d889bd3
Walmart Super Tech 10W40 Synthetic Motorcycle has 1,200 ppm of zinc. It’s the same as Mag 1.

Yep. Even Shell Rotella T-4 15-40

7394 said:

Yep. Even Shell Rotella T-4 15-40

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I run Rotella 30W in my 1958 Ford 601.

MParr said:

It’s going to have as much zinc and phosphorus as most other 4 Stroke motorcycle oil or Power Sports oils. Kawasaki and Kohler don’t publish product data sheets. So, take a look at what Valvoline, Mobil, Castrol and others publish. The zinc and phosphate levels are going to be around 1,200 PPM.
Example: https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publ...2d889bd3/4707a799-e29c-e711-9c10-ac162d889bd3
Walmart Super Tech 10W40 Synthetic Motorcycle has 1,200 ppm of zinc. It’s the same as Mag 1.

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I find most everything that is brave enough to list zinc content has at least 800 PPM.

So, we are supposed to believe zinc works magic in lawnmower engines, trust that lawnmower-specific motor oils have massive amounts of zinc, yet no one puts their reputation on the line to enumerate how much zinc is desired or how much is actually in the oil?

Reading my FR600V manual I find "API Service Classification : SJ or higher class." The word "zinc" is not present in the PDF.

We are led to believe API reduces the allowable quantity of zinc as the Service Classifications progress over the years, but API states the actual performance of the motor oil is continuously improving. In other words, "have to make the oil better but can't rely on crutches such as zinc."

As has been covered here, zinc is a last-resort protection. Only when pressure pushes through the oil film does a layer of soft zinc provide a cushion. The zinc is crushed and consumed. When one runs out of zinc the protection ends.

My highly respected mower guy is adamant about using high zinc Kawasaki oil. Asked about a friend's 17.5HP B&S which sat for years with a flooding carburetor. New carburetor, got engine running, 5 minutes later it stopped. Stuck intake valve. Was told, "that is because he was using car oil and not high zinc mower oil!" (Am pretty sure the local John Deere dealer changed the oil before the carburetor crapped out). And I'm stymied as to how zinc in the motor oil is supposed to the valve guides?

The valve not only stuck, but the pushrod bent.

GrumpyCat said:

I find most everything that is brave enough to list zinc content has at least 800 PPM.

So, we are supposed to believe zinc works magic in lawnmower engines, trust that lawnmower-specific motor oils have massive amounts of zinc, yet no one puts their reputation on the line to enumerate how much zinc is desired or how much is actually in the oil?

Reading my FR600V manual I find "API Service Classification : SJ or higher class." The word "zinc" is not present in the PDF.

We are led to believe API reduces the allowable quantity of zinc as the Service Classifications progress over the years, but API states the actual performance of the motor oil is continuously improving. In other words, "have to make the oil better but can't rely on crutches such as zinc."

As has been covered here, zinc is a last-resort protection. Only when pressure pushes through the oil film does a layer of soft zinc provide a cushion. The zinc is crushed and consumed. When one runs out of zinc the protection ends.

My highly respected mower guy is adamant about using high zinc Kawasaki oil. Asked about a friend's 17.5HP B&S which sat for years with a flooding carburetor. New carburetor, got engine running, 5 minutes later it stopped. Stuck intake valve. Was told, "that is because he was using car oil and not high zinc mower oil!" (Am pretty sure the local John Deere dealer changed the oil before the carburetor crapped out). And I'm stymied as to how zinc in the motor oil is supposed to the valve guides?

The valve not only stuck, but the pushrod bent.

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Your theory is based on anecdotal evidence.


An air cooled small engine has different oil requirements than a gasoline powered automobile engine. If they didn’t, small engine manufacturers would not have their branded oil formulated to meet certain requirements.

GrumpyCat said:

How much zinc?

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Good question.

GrumpyCat said:

Has been claimed, “automobile oil has no zinc” which is incorrect. If Kawasaki oil is so great for having zinc then how much does it have?

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Stens oil claims to have zinc. That's what I use.

MParr said:

Your theory is based on anecdotal evidence.


An air cooled small engine has different oil requirements than a gasoline powered automobile engine. If they didn’t, small engine manufacturers would not have their branded oil formulated to meet certain requirements.

https://resources.kohler.com/power/kohler/enginesUS/pdf/Oil_Sellsheet.pdf?_ga=2.118249737.1054693151.1689574030-983264015.1665643231

Kawasaki KTECH™ 4-Cycle Engine Oil | Kawasaki Engines USA

Designed to keep today’s high-performance, low-emission engines operating at peak efficiency, KTECH 4-Cycle Engine Oil also contains zinc additives that help prevent excess wear on engine parts.

kawasakienginesusa.com

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Your theory is anecdotal. I’m asking for fact rather than, “lawnmower engines are different.”

GrumpyCat said:

Your theory is anecdotal. I’m asking for fact rather than, “lawnmower engines are different.”

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Whatever! I’ve provided the literature that Kohler and Kawasaki puts out pertaining to their oil. Kohler even states that the demand of small air cooled engines is different than that of automobile requirements. Today’s automobile oils are engineered to meet the current EPA CAFE standards geared towards increased fuel mileage.
You do as you like and I’ll do as I like.

MParr said:

Whatever! I’ve provided the literature that Kohler and Kawasaki puts out pertaining to their oil. Kohler even states that the demand of small air cooled engines is different than that of automobile requirements. Today’s automobile oils are engineered to meet the current EPA CAFE standards geared towards increased fuel mileage.
You do as you like and I’ll do as I like.

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Neither Kohler nor Kawasaki have published a specification of what they expect of an oil... other than the video on Kawasaki's site saying to look for a genuine API rating and how they also submit to JASO for real testing (a snub at Shell who self-certifies a JASO MA rating on certain varieties of Rotella-T).

The fun thing about API S-category (gasoline internal combustion) and JASO's motorcycle ratings, is how certain additives such as zinc are limited.

@MParr and everyone else have failed to document a requirement for zinc, all they present is F.U.D. (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt).

With an additive such as zinc one is specifying the means of the solution, not documenting a problem to be solved.

Supertech SAE 30w was or is rated at SG. Full of zinc and wonder no wear stuff. It's actually called off-highway oil.

GrumpyCat said:

Kawasaki's site saying to look for a genuine API rating and how they also submit to JASO for real testing (a snub at Shell who self-certifies a JASO MA rating on certain varieties of Rotella-T).

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Kawasaki Engine has Solid Lifters, so having Zinc is very beneficial to this. Their own brand K-Tech has zinc in it..
I think Kawasaki knows their engines pretty well.

you do not need zinc in a mower engine that has single valve springs that you an compress with your old fella
High zinc is needed for engines with double valve springs and high lift cams
I really wish idiots who know nothing about oils would stop crossing between NASCAR requirements and mower requirements
Mowers have only 1 scuffing surface where zinc would be an advantage and that is the cam followers but the pressure n a mower cam follower is barely enough to keep it in contact with the cam let alone squeeze out all of the oil

How about simply following the manufacturers recommendation in the owner's manual? They bench test them under full load for thousands of hours with various oils. The engineers that designed the engine are far better versed in which viscosity and spec will provide the longest life. You can't go wrong with Mobil1 10w/30 high milage oil. Nearly all modern small engines recommend either 30W detergent and/or 10w30. I have not seen any consumption increase with 10w30 vs 30w. The small engine oils from the manufacturers are blended with higher zinc and detergents but the price is insane, and any good brand name synthetic will meet the specs mentioned in your manual. Amsoil makes a specific small engine oil. You can find it at Napa or order it. Here are the details.

7394 said:

Kawasaki Engine has Solid Lifters, so having Zinc is very beneficial to this. Their own brand K-Tech has zinc in it..
I think Kawasaki knows their engines pretty well.

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Every motor oil has zinc in it.

Most every engine ever made has (by your definition) “solid” lifters even those with hydraulic lifters. The issue is whether the spring rate and lift of the cam and RPM drive pressures great enough to push through the oil film. This just does not happen in power equipment engines.

Most diesel engines I have seen come with roller lifters due to high valve spring rates and large lift. Well designed high performance gasoline engines too. Aftermarket kits available to hot rodders.

When parts press through the oil film zinc is the protectant of last resort. When this occurs the zinc is consumed. Poorly designed engines require high levels of zinc, else the designer has decided to use the oil as a crutch and require more frequent oil drain intervals to replenish the zinc.

Mobil-1 famously got in hot water with formerly loyal hot rod users of 15W-50 “red cap” Mobil-1. Red cap replaced with a 15W-50 that chemically resembled 5W-30, much lower zinc content. These users started experiencing severe camshaft lobe wear. High lift, high RPM, high spring rates, high pressures on the cam lobes. But only those without roller lifters.

I totally agree zinc reduces camshaft wear. I totally claim such designs are defective because it is unnecessary and avoidable. Most every Toyota ever made has pure solid lifters. My F-150 with 2.7EB has pure solid lifters. Neither has a “gimme more zinc” requirement.

And again, “Where is the documentation from Kawasaki as to their (supposed) zinc requirement? Something other than marketing propaganda. Technical document. Owners Manual, etc.” My Owners Manual simply states, “API Service Classification : SJ or higher class.” It doesn’t say, “high zinc content preferred” or anything like that.

Where are the excessively worn camshafts that insufficient zinc is to blame?

I don't care what oil I use as long as it is better than the oil Scrub uses.

ZDDP: Zinc and phosphorus are more than anti-wear additives. They are also anti-oxidants.
Higher levels of zinc and phosphorus in engine oils can foul catalytic converters and diesel particulate filters. That’s the reason for reducing the zinc and phosphorus levels in oils for newer passenger cars and newer diesel powered vehicles and equipment.
We aren’t seeing a great number of air cooled motorcycles, ATVs, and lawnmowers with catalytic converters.
I will continue using engine oils with higher zinc and phosphorus levels in my air cooled engines.
For me, it makes more sense to keep one type of oil on hand for both my V-Twin Kohler and my Kawasaki Mule. A 10W40 4T motorcycle oil goes in both.

Hammermechanicman said:

I don't care what oil I use as long as it is better than the oil Scrub uses.

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Yea same here..

MParr said:

ZDDP: Zinc and phosphorus are more than anti-wear additives. They are also anti-oxidants.
Higher levels of zinc and phosphorus in engine oils can foul catalytic converters and diesel particulate filters. That’s the reason for reducing the zinc and phosphorus levels in oils for newer passenger cars and newer diesel powered vehicles and equipment.

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Zinc isn't limited by the EPA, it is phosphorous which is limited. Zinc only because they choose to use ZDDP in motor oil.

Most "automotive" motor oils have 700-800 PPM of ZDDP. 1500 PPM becomes acidic so even the "zinc rich" oils are limited to 1100-1200 PPM.

MParr said:

We aren’t seeing a great number of air cooled motorcycles, ATVs, and lawnmowers with catalytic converters.

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You ain't looking. Air cooled engines are a dying breed.

2001 Honda GL1800 is one. My 2007 BMW F800S and 2016 Yamaha FJR1300. Catalytic converters and solid tappet lifters. Redline is 9000 RPM on the FJR. I only have 85,000 miles and valves are still in spec.

Use same oils in my 2009 Husaberg FE450 off-road racing dirtbike. It too has been through a dozen tires, half dozen chains, wheel bearings, air filters. But valves are still in the 0.006-0.007".

MParr said:

I will continue using engine oils with higher zinc and phosphorus levels in my air cooled engines.

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How do you know the oil you are using really has higher ZDDP content?

Zinc/ZDDP is a consumable. It gets crushed then no longer works. Run a marginally designed engine 500 house on an oil drain and one will probably run out of ZDDP. 50 hours? Not likely.

Another point: It is the high pressure of high spring rates and high cam lift used in hot rod engines which drive the "need" for ZDDP. Power equipment engine valve springs are usually so weak we depress with thumbs to remove the retainer. Low lift. And 3600 RPM? Very low stress.

GrumpyCat said:

2001 Honda GL1800 is one. My 2007 BMW F800S and 2016 Yamaha FJR1300.

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Well who cares about the rice burner scronda ? Or the yamaha ! ha ! ha !

7394 said:

Well who cares about the rice burner scronda ? Or the yamaha ! ha ! ha !

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The GL1800 was built in Marysville, OH.

But if these "rice burners" can thrive on the not-really-reduced ZDDP then why not a US-built rice-burner Kawasaki at much lower RPM? My point is that if excessive ZDDP really is necessary that it is a design defect, other engines of much higher performance do not have the issue.