Baffling engine issue - runs for 6 minutes, dies, but then starts right back up

wesw

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  • / Baffling engine issue - runs for 6 minutes, dies, but then starts right back up
Had a similar problem with an older Cub RZT50 that belongs to my church. Replaced all the fuel lines, the fuel filter, the fuel pump, went through the carb, and so on, and it didn't change a thing. Finally pulled off the fender that covers the fuel tank and discovered a brass 90 degree elbow fitting that fits in a rubber grommet on top of the fuel tank. The fuel line feeds from one side of that elbow, but the other side was fitted with a pickup tube made of rigid black plastic, like a big heavy drinking straw. There was no filter on that pickup tube, and the problem lay there. Something -- grass clippings, dead bugs, whatever -- was getting sucked up through that pickup tube from the bottom of the tank, and whatever it was was too large to fit through the brass elbow. The passage through that elbow is MUCH smaller than either the pickup tube or the fuel lines. The elbow was essentially a bottleneck.

The mower would stop at random times, but always start back up after sitting for a few minutes. Whatever was blocking that elbow would drift back down the pickup tube once the engine stopped, and it would be slurped up again sometime later. Lather, rinse, repeat.

What I did to fix things was remove that rigid plastic pickup tube and replace it with a length of standard 1/4" black rubber fuel line. I weighted the bottom end of it with a couple of steel nuts and installed a filter to keep out the inevitable tank-bottom crud.

That was four years ago. That old RZT is still cutting our grass, and it never misses a beat.

Also, FWIW, this fuel pickup design is very much a standard feature on MTD products. I have run into the same problem on other MTD mowers and I've been able to solve the problem in much the same way each time.
I know this has a metal 90 degree elbow with a shutoff valve. I cleaned out the tank as thoroughly as possible while troubleshooting everything last time, and also used a small pipe cleaner (the kind kids use in school projects) around that elbow. At this point willing to try about anything.

Would you be able to take a picture of that when you have a chance? I'm not quite following what you did and how it relates to this design. Thanks!
 

wesw

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  • / Baffling engine issue - runs for 6 minutes, dies, but then starts right back up
Is your governor adjusted correctly? Seeing that video, that would be the first thing that I checked.
Not much to adjust; however given it runs fine for about 30 minutes and warmup should happen well before that, I think something else is going on. Adjustment in the manual just talks about bending the arm a little one way or the other if necessary.
 

MParr

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  • / Baffling engine issue - runs for 6 minutes, dies, but then starts right back up
If you B&S is similar to this, here is the link for governor adjustment.
 

leemalis

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  • / Baffling engine issue - runs for 6 minutes, dies, but then starts right back up
Did you ever fix the problem? I have a motor doing the exact same thing? I've replaced the carb, filter, fuel lines, thermostat (choke thing). I will try the second fuel tank idea.
 

wesw

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  • / Baffling engine issue - runs for 6 minutes, dies, but then starts right back up
I have not gotten it fixed yet. I just set the governor... although per the video above it was already tightened and I don't expect any change. I also searched around for common vacuum leaks and replaced the two gaskets at the intake manifold to engine. When I removed them originally they looked somewhat bent like in a picture. I flipped them around backwards but decided to just replace. At the moment it's failing to even crank, so I have to do a little more troubleshooting to see why the starter/solenoid isn't running before I can even test it out. I might have gotten a lemon... but seems like there is ALWAYS something wrong with this thing.

I was hoping to get some pictures around what the other guy did on the 90 degree fuel line. I've already emptied, blown out the tank, and replaced the gas lines... but it would be interesting if there was something more up in there. I did get a little motorcycle gas tank and run it that way for awhile to test. It drains the smaller one in just a couple min, so for it to run for awhile I think my on-machine gas tank is alright. I know there is nothing down in there as I've blown it out and checked with an inspection camera.
 

sgkent

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  • / Baffling engine issue - runs for 6 minutes, dies, but then starts right back up
this came to me based on something similar someone had happen here some time ago. Don't over tighten the gas cap. Someone had a model where over tightening it caused the cap vent not to work.
 

wesw

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  • / Baffling engine issue - runs for 6 minutes, dies, but then starts right back up
this came to me based on something similar someone had happen here some time ago. Don't over tighten the gas cap. Someone had a model where over tightening it caused the cap vent not to work.
It's a good callout, but this one doesn't have a vent cap. It's a commercial model that has a separate vent tube which is ultimately connected through the air filter - so it only pulls in clean air.
 

wesw

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  • / Baffling engine issue - runs for 6 minutes, dies, but then starts right back up
I adjusted the governor (though I think it was already tightened as much as it would go per the video) and I also replaced the intake seals on the manifold (someone mentioned that was a common source of vacuum leak). Neither really made any difference unfortunately. It ran for ~25 min and then stalled and started with the hunting. I may replace the VTwin valve cover gaskets, just because they're cheap and since the fuel pump is being pulled by the right side I figure it's worth making sure that isn't a vacuum leak... although when I do the propane test/trick nothing seems to stop the hunting.

Any other ideas? @leemalis - did the alternate fuel tank test do anything on yours?
 

sgkent

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  • / Baffling engine issue - runs for 6 minutes, dies, but then starts right back up
It's a good callout, but this one doesn't have a vent cap. It's a commercial model that has a separate vent tube which is ultimately connected through the air filter - so it only pulls in clean air.
make sure it is clean and open. The description of the problem is classic for a plugged tank vent.
 

wesw

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  • / Baffling engine issue - runs for 6 minutes, dies, but then starts right back up
I'm positive it's not the plugged tank. The rather large air line is clean ... and even when you take the gas cap off it doesn't make any difference in how it runs. An external tank doesn't seem to fix the problem either.

I need to run it some more to be sure, but I replaced the valve cover gasket where the fuel vacuum line is attached yesterday. I thought it was just dirty but when I got in there I realized it was oily dirt and the other side had none of that. The silicone seal from the factory wasn't great ... but clearly there was some oil coming out. I'm not 100% sure yet it solved this problem yet either, but I think it might have been heating up and creating enough of a vacuum leak there to have some fuel starvation.
 
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