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Hi all,
I am having trouble starting my ATCO lightweight which has a Villiers Midget 2-stroke engine. I have looked online at using carb cleaner as a starting fluid but I'm unsure as to whether this would be okay for my engine and not cause damage to it. I understand that starting fluid should be sprayed into the air intake or the carb and only in a small amount. Is this correct?

Thanks
Abelw44

That's all we use. Have found that using the stuff they sell at WalMart works great and is cheaer than others.

abelw44 said:

Hi all,
I am having trouble starting my ATCO lightweight which has a Villiers Midget 2-stroke engine. I have looked online at using carb cleaner as a starting fluid but I'm unsure as to whether this would be okay for my engine and not cause damage to it. I understand that starting fluid should be sprayed into the air intake or the carb and only in a small amount. Is this correct?

Thanks
Abelw44

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I dont use that stuff at all i get a spray bottle and put gas in it ,Ether and all that stuff is not good for those engines ...I don't even use on my car

I also use a spray bottle.

I use a metal squirt can with 2cycle gas

The problem they had with starting fluid in the older days is that it washed the lubrication off the cylinder wall and would score them if you used too much. Now that the problem is known they have added the lube into the starting fluid. If you buy a well known brand like Wal-Mart you should't have any problem using it. I use it all the time.

Hi all,
Thanks very much for all your ideas!

I will get some of the proper stuff to hopefully avoid problems.

Thanks
Abelw44

I am also a fan of the spray bottle with gas. I also buy the Walmart carb cleaner I cant justify spending almost double on the same thing lol but as starting fluid gas seems to work best

exotion said:

I am also a fan of the spray bottle with gas. I also buy the Walmart carb cleaner I cant justify spending almost double on the same thing lol but as starting fluid gas seems to work best

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What I used for years was a old oil can with a pump with gas in it. Now I just use the starting fluid in the aerosol can. One can last a long time. What I like about the starting fluid I don't have to remove the air cleaner.

Hi all,
I decided I wouldn't use starting fluid for now at least as I think it should start without it.
However, I am still having problems starting it. I'll give it a few kicks and it runs to 1-2 seconds and then cuts out and I can't seem to figure out what to do. I've adjusted the throttle, adjusted the fuel inlet screw, primed the carb and everything else under the sun but I still can't get more then a very brief run out of! :-(

Anyone know what I'm doing wrong?
Any ideas gratefully received,
Abelw44

take carb apart and clean it sounds like its a carb problem

Ok thanks,
will do
Abelw44

Hmmmmm...... I've completely cleaned and reassembled the carb now and still I'm only getting a few pops and fires, no actual starting!

Any other ideas?
Thanks abelw44

abelw44 said:

Hmmmmm...... I've completely cleaned and reassembled the carb now and still I'm only getting a few pops and fires, no actual starting!

Any other ideas?
Thanks abelw44

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did you ultrasonic clean the carb ? if not you may still have a blockage in there also i have had a duff plug give the same problem you are having just pop but not run
try a different plug just to eliminate that from your list also what mix are you using?

also check your timing this some info i found on another site

Have a look on the end of the crankshaft, you should see a mark which will match up to a mark on the flywheel rim. If you can't find these marks, try about 5 degrees before TDC. Calculate the circumference of the flywheel, divide that by 360 and then times the result by 5. That will give you the distance to mark BEFORE TDC. I cannot remember the exact timing setting for these engines, but around 5 degrees should get you started, you can then adjust from there to find that engines sweet spot. You want the points just beginning to open when your 5 degrees before mark is in the top dead position



bill

My timing is lined up.
I'm using a rough 20:1 mix.
No i didnt ultrasonic clean t because I dont have a bath.
I tested the plug on another mower and it seems fine

Are you sure 20/1 mix is correct? Haven't seen a mixture that rich since the early 60's. Could be your problem.

abelw44 said:

My timing is lined up.
I'm using a rough 20:1 mix.
No i didnt ultrasonic clean t because I dont have a bath.
I tested the plug on another mower and it seems fine

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if you have good spark, good compression it can only be the carb what happens if you spray some mix straight in the air intake will it run for a few secs then cut out? if so it is the carb also have you checked for crankcase leaks eg crank seals, case gaskets etc you will need a pressure / vacuum testing kit for this
pressure to 7psi no more then vacuum test to 1/2 bar this will test the seals / gaskets whats the piston looking like any deep scores, exhaust port is this clear?
hope this helps

if you do need the carb ultrasonic cleaned we can do it for £15 + return delivery
we use a crest 27ltr ultrasonic cleaner ( cost over £2000 )

bill

Rivets said:

Are you sure 20/1 mix is correct? Haven't seen a mixture that rich since the early 60's. Could be your problem.

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it's a 50's mower

I understand that, but a 20/1 mixture may not be right. I would remove all fuel and get fresh fuel using the new synthetic 2cycle oil. Can be used in all two cycle air cooled engines. This will have a higher volatility rating and should give it a bang. He has done everything else and does get it to fire with starting fluid. Just my opinion, when all else has failed.

Rivets said:

I understand that, but a 20/1 mixture may not be right. I would remove all fuel and get fresh fuel using the new synthetic 2cycle oil. Can be used in all two cycle air cooled engines. This will have a higher volatility rating and should give it a bang. He has done everything else and does get it to fire with starting fluid. Just my opinion, when all else has failed.

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i agree 20:1 with modern 2 stoke oil may be wrong but 20:1 is what the manufacture recommended then but this was with sae30 oil not the modern synthetic oil we all use now i would try 25:1 or 33:1 with a good 2 stoke oil you will still get plenty of lubricant i use stihl hp plus but any good 2 stoke oil will be fine up to 50:1

bill

ATCO say you should run it on 16:1 but I heard on the internet that this can be a bit too viscous.

abelw44 said:

ATCO say you should run it on 16:1 but I heard on the internet that this can be a bit too viscous.

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but that is using sae30 engine oil not proper 2 stoke oil we use today try 25:1 this will still give plenty of lubrication

plus the old sae30 oil will gum up the carb real bad hence why i said about ultrasonic cleaning the carb has this got the zenith type carb on it?

bill

I don't know what kind of carb it has on it. :-(
But I have given it a really really good clean up.

Just to correct an earlier post, It doesn't start on starting fluid, it wont start at all.

Thanks abelw44

Also, thanks for the offer of ultrasonic cleaning, but I don't live in America so its a little impractical!

abelw44 said:

Also, thanks for the offer of ultrasonic cleaning, but I don't live in America so its a little impractical!

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cornwall UK
whats the compression reading? you want 100psi+ or you will have a difficult time starting it have you tried to spray 2 stroke mix in the air intake or dribble a drop in the plug hole and see if it will run for a few seconds on that? if it will this just leaves the carb to sort

bill

Oh!!! sorry about that!!!!

I'll try dribbling a bit in the plug hole
Thanks
Abelw44

I tried dribbling a bit in. Nothing happened. However is it possible I didn't put enough in?

thanks
Abelw44

As i said before what is the compression like you need over 100 psi for it to run ? it may be a crankcase leak or leaking crank seals this rules out a carb problem for now as it would pop on some fuel in the plug hole it may be time to strip the engine to investigate further

bill

I don't know what the compression is like unfortunately as I don't have a compression tester, but that is something I should look at getting.

As for tge crankcase gasket, I made my own from a cereal box. I have done this before but only on a 4-stroke engine. Is this a problem?

As I said before is it possible I didn't put enough two stroke in the plug hole?

Thanks,
abelw44

I have already stripped, cleaned and rebuilt the engine and carburettor as I bought this mower as a non-working project.

Abelw44

abelw44 said:

I have already stripped, cleaned and rebuilt the engine and carburettor as I bought this mower as a non-working project.

Abelw44

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ok did you replace the crankshaft seals? you realty need to test the compression & test the crankcase for vacuum / pressure to see if you have any leaks as this will stop the engine running
without preforming these test you are working blind

bill

As far as I can see, there are no crankshaft seals, and I can't see there ever having been any because the engine was attached to the mower in it's original position when I bought it. I tested the compression just roughly with my hand and there was basically nothing. I think this might be to do with the original head gasket that is sixty years old, thin, and plasticy still being attached. Is this the case?

OK IF YOU HAVE NO COMPRESSION YOU WILL NEVER START THE ENGINE YOU NEED TO FIND THE COMPRESSION PROBLEM BEFORE YOU CAN MOVE FORWARD AS FOR THE CRANK SEALS SOMETIMES THEY FORM PART OF THE CRANK SHAFT BEARINGS YOU WILL SEE A SEAL ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BEARINGS BUT IF YOU DO NOT HAVE COMPRESSION THIS IS YOUR MAIN PROBLEM FOR NOW

BILL

As far as I can see on Youtube vids and on my own engine, there are no bearings or crankcase seals. So I'm gonna make a new head gasket and see. Also, I tested the compression again and it seems I was wrong the first time it actually does have OK compression.

Thanks
Abelw44

Hi all,
The ATCO does also leak a fair amount of fuel out of the air filter. As you have probably guessed, I am not familiar with two strokes having never worked on one before. Does anyone know what this fuel leaking business means?

Thanks
Abelw44